Herbert gone

Submitted by GoBlue96 on January 29th, 2024 at 7:59 AM
https://twitter.com/JoshHenschke/status/1751950985784594814

 

Honker Burger

January 29th, 2024 at 9:08 AM ^

I'm disappointed he's leaving, but good for him.

We win a national championship, and a bunch of people on this blog want to disparage Harbaugh and claim he is tearing down Michigan on the way out. Get a damn grip. People have goals, desires, personal reasons, etc. of their own and want to pursue them. It's ok. When you have success this happens. Michigan will be ok. Change is inevitable, grow the hell up.

goblu330

January 29th, 2024 at 9:29 AM ^

Yeah I did not see this response before posting just below.

I am seriously not even following the Harbaugh leaving stuff, with the exception of the podcast because it is celebratory in nature.  I assume Harbaugh is taking everybody except for Moore and that there will be a lot of talented people lined up at Moore's door to fill those roles.

Jkidd49

January 29th, 2024 at 9:49 AM ^

It's a broader point that everywhere you look it's about this AD underfunding things important to success.

You can choose to be a big time college program in this day and age and pay what it costs or you can stick you head in the sand and wish it was 10 years ago.

goblu330

January 29th, 2024 at 9:25 AM ^

I mean, his OC and most trusted assistant is the new head coach.

I am starting to think I might be in the minority but he just won a national championship here and completed the best and most memorable season possibly in the history of the University in any sport.  He can have his strength and conditioning coach.

RobSk

January 29th, 2024 at 1:53 PM ^

You do realize this is a Michigan football blog not a Chargers blog, right?

my main concern is for Michigan football, not for what makes the Chargers better or for what JH “can have”.

I am not blaming JH or anything like it. Personally I’m happy for him. I love Harbaugh as a coach and am hugely impressed with him as a man.

As a Michigan football fan this (JH taking the best of the Michigan staff)  is a disaster mitigated by Sherrone Moores presence to some degree.

I’m very concerned that between the substantially increased degree of difficulty in schedule, loss of talent, and coaches, that Moore won’t have a realistic chance to succeed. If that happens, I have a feeling it will impact the program, Moores career, and also lead to the “cupboard bare” theme that happened with Rodriguez and Lloyd Carr.

right now there is not much good news here. 

jmblue

January 29th, 2024 at 9:47 AM ^

First, it's quite normal in any event for a departing coach to try to bring along his assistants to his new position. 

Second, Minter, Herbert et al. are free to make their own decisions.  Harbaugh isn't forcing them to go, it's their choice.  Maybe they prefer working with professionals.

But beyond that...

Harbaugh wanted to fight the Burgergate charge that he misled the NCAA over a receipt.  Michigan elected to acknowledge him as guilty and tried to negotiate a four-game suspension, and then when that fell through, unilaterally slapped a three-game suspension on him.

Harbaugh wanted to fight the Petitti suspension.  Michigan initially filed a TRO but when it wasn't granted, relented and let Petitti get his pound of flesh.

Harbaugh wanted assurances that the two NCAA investigations wouldn't cost him his job.  Michigan balked (until, reportedly, the very last minute).

The man was our most successful coach since Crisler and we treated him as a pawn to be sacrificed to the NCAA.  I don't think he's doing any of this to harm Michigan - he's hiring guys that he thinks will give him the best chance to succeed - but if he did have any hard feelings towards his former superiors, could you really blame him?

JonathanE

January 29th, 2024 at 11:42 AM ^

"Harbaugh wanted to fight the Burgergate charge that he misled the NCAA over a receipt.  Michigan elected to acknowledge him as guilty and tried to negotiate a four-game suspension, and then when that fell through, unilaterally slapped a three-game suspension on him."

Whether he remembered or he didn't, the fact remains that there is no confusion that the level II sanction was correct, that Michigan did illegal contact with a recruit as well as having analyst leading out in practice in which only coaches are supposed to. Is it worth it to fight a level I sanction when the NCAA has the receipt from Harbaugh's credit card and his defense is I forgot, or I don't recall?  Far better to take the 4 game suspension against a bunch of cupcakes than to see what happens down the road like we are now.
 

"Harbaugh wanted to fight the Petitti suspension.  Michigan initially filed a TRO but when it wasn't granted, relented and let Petitti get his pound of flesh."

This has been hashed out by the MGOLawyers guild many times on different topics. There are varying opinions on success of the TRO and others who point out that by the time a decision would have been handed down, the three games would have been over and the point mute. The Big Ten promised to back off anything further and the Chris Partridge firing had just come to light. Jim Harbaugh is or was an important part of the University but that doesn't mean that everyone has to fight to the bitter end? What would a full-scale war have been like with the Big Ten and the NCAA hanging around? I like Sun Tzu's idea: “The greatest victory is that which requires no battle.” 

Why don't you explain why Harbaugh wouldn't sign any new extension until mid-February so that his buy out would remain cheaper? The fact is that Harbaugh had an NFL infatuation which wasn't going away. Unless Harbaugh had lied about everything, there is no way that the University was going to fire him. Those protections were simply an excuse to test the NFL market with his buyout low. If Harbaugh wanted to stay at Michigan, there was a shining path forward. Now that he is with the Chargers, all fair in love and war. Jim's success is dependent upon having the best staff possible to put himself in a position to win. Moore has the same idea and since they both came from the same program it's only natural that they are going to fight for the remaining pieces. 

schreibee

January 29th, 2024 at 12:57 PM ^

Jonathan, you come across as someone who considers themself knowledgeable & level-headed. 

While you refute several points about how the University could or should have handled disputing the alleged potential ncaa violations, you missed that the point being made was not whether UM did the most expedient thing possible, but rather that they did not do the thing that demonstrated the most support of the head coach, Jim Harbaugh. Their priorities were different than his.

Secondly, you correctly point out that with Harbaugh not being willing to sign any new deal until fully exploring his nfl options, it's clear that he was likely gone no matter what Michigan offered.

But when UM initially balked at insuring him against financial losses, or even termination, in response to what most of us find specious infractions, they were again telling him that he was not their highest priority. 

Finally, when you say a point is mute rather than moot, you kinda cast all the rest of your arguments in an uninformed light. Jus sayin...

JonathanE

January 29th, 2024 at 1:25 PM ^

"Finally, when you say a point is mute rather than moot, you kinda cast all the rest of your arguments in an uninformed light. Jus sayin..."

I had to go back and re-read what I wrote because I could not believe I had written that. The only thing I can think of, is that while typing, I misspelled moot and somehow autocorrected without looking. I do understand the difference between a mute at what moot means. I can only fall on my sword and like a Jim Harbaugh Jug burger claim that I do not recall typing mute. ;-) [Thanks for the catch and I agree, it does make me look stupid.]

Without spinning up a lot of sentences, the University's job is not to carry the water for Jim Harbaugh. The University should support their employee but that doesn't mean the University is a vasal of Jim Harbaugh. I think of it like a father and son relationship. 'Son, I am your father, not your friend. We can hang out and do fun things together but understand at the end of the day, I am the parent, and you are the child.'     

schreibee

January 29th, 2024 at 3:04 PM ^

Huh?!

It's not a parent/child relationship - that's far dumber than saying something is "mute," accidentally or not.

This is a business relationship, but a very complicated one because millions of people care who the CEO or Chairman of this organization are, whereas no one really cares about how those people get along at Ford unless you work there.

And in the coach/AD (or GM etc in the pros) relationship, one person always the bulk of the power - the one who's perceived as being responsible for success. Or conversely, considered less responsible for failure. 

Well unless your last name is Manuel (or possibly Stevenjrking) you do not think the person most responsible for Michigan's recent successes is Warde Manuel!

So, now again we can discuss how Michigan might have responded to ncaa allegations or investigations vs how they actually did respond.

I contend - as did the poster you originally disagreed with - that Michigan chose to suspend Harbaugh in 2023, rather than play out process and support him, at the expense of the relationship. 

And they rattled their legal sabers over the B10 suspension,  but caved without seeing the process through, again at the possible expense of the relationship with the coach. 

And in demonstration of the power imbalance of the relationship, in the end they apparently caved in to his contract demands, but he walked anyway. As he said before the Ravens game "they don't have a Lombardi Trophy in college football."

rob f

January 29th, 2024 at 11:43 AM ^

A lot of it is about Harbaugh knowing he's already 60 yrs old and going to be coaching a Chargers team that has a good QB but not much else . The Chargers aren't just lacking top NFL players---they're also old and way over the salary cap and not in good position for the free agent market.

Realistically, LA is probably 2 seasons from being competitive and 3 seasons away from being legitimate contenders unless Harbaugh finds other ways to speed up the process. So yeah, Harbaugh is going to take along any and all willing 'assets' because he's been an NFL coach and knows Minter, Herbert, Jay, etc all are going to be assets that will help speed up the Chargers timeline.

Jim wants success and wants it quickly, and so does the ownership of the Chargers. Nobody in Los Angeles cares about the Chargers until they start winning some games--- it's much more a Rams town (just like the Sox who play in a Cubs town).

bluebyyou

January 29th, 2024 at 12:05 PM ^

So much for my love of Jim Harbaugh.  It basically disintegrated after this move.  To be fair, maybe Herbert didn't want to be here but he signed a five year contract last year.  It is common knowledge that S&C coaches have a lesser role in the NFL than they do in college because many of the pros have their own personal trainers. 

This one hurts.

Communist Football

January 29th, 2024 at 12:34 PM ^

Not cool for Harbaugh to gut the program on his way out. I don't begrudge him his desire to go to the NFL and pursue a Super Bowl. But to take Michigan's most valuable asset—one that is *more* valuable to Michigan than it is to him at San Diego—is not cool. Tells me it's all about him and not about the school he claims to love.

JacquesStrappe

January 29th, 2024 at 1:40 PM ^

I think we have to be more measured here. I would have preferred that Herbert stayed. But I also would have preferred if Harbaugh stayed. But change is inevitable.

Harbaugh did what has always done, and that is seek out new and bigger challenges. Same with Herbert. And if you don’t think that ego plays a role, you are fooling yourself. I don’t begrudge them for that but I also don’t lionize them. That’s also why I won’t take Warde or the university to task for not signing off on some of the protections that Harbaugh’s camp was pushing for. Leaving aside the issue of the delays being a negotiating or stalling tactic by both sides, Harbaugh had to protect his interests and Michigan had to protect theirs. Again, same for Herbert.

There was a parting of the ways but at least it was amicable and I’m sure Michigan will be able to lean on Herbert and company just like Harbaugh leaned on his brother John and the rest of the Ravens organization. 

In the meantime, we get Herbert‘s protege and give him an opportunity that hopefully keeps the S&C lineage going and provide the talent with reasons to hang around. This was inevitable with a new regime. At some point Moore will have to, is going to, and should put his own stamp on the program. We should be excited for that.

JacquesStrappe

January 29th, 2024 at 1:40 PM ^

I think we have to be more measured here. Change is inevitable. And if you don’t think that ego plays a role, you are fooling yourself. Harbaugh has always searched out bigger challenges. And Herbert too. I don’t begrudge them for that but I also don’t lionize them. That’s also why I won’t take Warde or the university to task for not signing off on some of the protections that Harbaugh’s camp was pushing for. Leaving aside the issue of the delays being a negotiating or stalling tactic by both sides, Harbaugh had to protect his interests and Michigan had to protect theirs. Same for Herbert.

There was a parting of the ways but at least it was amicable and I’m sure Michigan will be able to lean on Herbert and company just like Harbaugh leaned on his brother John and the rest of the Ravens organization. 

In the meantime, we get Herbert‘s protege and give him an opportunity that hopefully keeps S&C lineage going’s and provide the talent with reasons to hang around. This wa inevitable with a new regime. At some point Moore will have to, is going to, and should put his own stamp on the program. We should be excited for that.

GoBlue96

January 29th, 2024 at 8:01 AM ^

Go out and find the next Herbert.  Might be the 1a and 1b most important hire along with the defensive coordinator spot.  Maybe he has been grooming someone to step up in his role.

Honker Burger

January 29th, 2024 at 9:19 AM ^

No you're clearly not a true fan. You are supposed to bitch and moan that doom and gloom is upon us, after WINNING A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP, even though numerous cards are stacked against us as a program (eg. weather, institutional limitations regarding transfers/NIL/actually caring somewhat about academic standards/not being the only major program in your state).

When individuals from the program want to advance their careers and explore new opportunities, you are supposed to blame them for burning it all down on the way out.  Don't you know these people are only around to bring the fans joy and cater to our needs? Selfish, selfish coaches.

HarBooYa

January 29th, 2024 at 10:15 AM ^

Sometimes it matter who is in a role.  I'd advise watching Michigan Made:  Football Episode 2.  You'll see both guys in action.  Hebert was special.  Probably best at what he does.  Big loss.  

We'll be fine and have a S&C program, and next guy up will get a chance to make his mark, but this one stings.  Players absolutely love him.  Wasn't worried about players on the D leaving before, now I am.  

Moore best make a killer D Coordinator hire and do it quickly.  Early test of this leadership and competency for the role.  

Blue Noise

January 29th, 2024 at 10:37 AM ^

That sounds like the best move. If Coach Tress was Herbert’s second in command then he must be extremely good at his job and it’ll be fine.

From an entirely comedic standpoint, I am only slightly disappointed by the fact that Tress does not appear to be the “mini Herbert” on staff who one of the TV broadcasts earlier this year (pretty sure it was Fox but can’t recall which game) mistakenly thought was Herbert for several minutes while the announcers talked about Herbert’s impact on the program, then after the ad break apologized and clarified that the man they showed was not, in fact, Ben Herbert.