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There's a strong argument…

There's a strong argument that the North divisions are the best two in football.  The AFC North is probably the best division, period.  The NFC North likely would have had three teams in the playoffs with a healthy Cousins last year, and the Bears surged late to a 7-10 record.  Top-to-bottom, I don't see a better division in the NFC, and I'm not sure it's even close.

They're not predicting…

They're not predicting Graham at #2.  They're saying they think he's the 2nd-best prospect in the 2025 draft.  Big Boards do not equal mock drafts.  

For example, most people had MHJ ranked ahead of Daniels and Maye in this year's draft, but didn't mock him until #4 with the Cardinals.

Lions "needs" - S, OL, WR,…

Lions "needs" - S, OL, WR, EDGE, DT

CB should be off the board, unless the player has clear safety capability as well (I don't see that with Mikey).

The Michigan guys that fit the Lions are (in order of likely selection): Roman Wilson, Kris Jenkins, Zak Zinter, AJ Barner, Cornelius Johnson, Trevor Keegan, Braiden McGregor, Jaylen Harrell.

If Wilson is there at 61 and the Lions don't trade back, I think he's a good pick.  DT still feels like a luxury with McNeil and Reader as starters, Onwuzurike as a back-up, and Martin as a developmental guy (DTs usually take time in the NFL).  And that doesn't factor in flexible guys like Paschal, Cominsky, and even Hutch.

EDGE feels like a bigger need but I don't want to wait until the bottom of the draft for the UM guys.

Zinter is a steal at 164 (more likely picked-up in a trade down from 61 somewhere in the 100s).  Barner and Johnson are two of my favorite late picks for the Lions.

An actual "dream" draft for me looks like trading 61 down for more picks between there and 164.  Then getting help at two of the following positions:

  • Safety--Bishop, Bullock, DTD, Mustapha, Smith, Oladapo
  • OT--Fisher, Paul, Amegadjie, Rosengarten, Jones, Foster
  • IOL--Puni, Mahogany, Van Pran, Coleman, McCormick, Zinter, Limmer
  • EDGE--Jonah Elliss, Jalyx Hunt, Cedric Johnson, Brennan Jackson
  • WR--Javon Baker, Brenden Rice, Luke McCaffrey

Starting at pick 164, we REALLY need to go BPA.  I don't care what position.  You're just hoping to find guys that can make the team.  This Lions roster is not going to be easy to crack.  In addition to some of the guys above who might fall, some of my favorite late-rounders are RB Tyrone Tracy, S Sione Vaki, LB Marist Liufau, DT McKinnley Jackson, OG Sataoa Laumea, Barner, CJ, McGregor, Keegan, K Joshua Karty, DT Jaden Crumedy, DT Fabien Lovett, CB Qwan'tez Stiggers, QB Sam Hartman, OL KT Leveston, DB Ryan Watts, QB Devin Leary, LB Michael Barrett.

NIL?  I mean, if that were…

NIL?  I mean, if that were really the case, we would've lost lots more guys to the portal.

There are other reasons here and speculation doesn't help anyone.  I wish DJ the best and hope to get the real story soon.

Ragnow needs more love.  He…

Ragnow needs more love.  He's an all-pro C.

This whole discussion really…

This whole discussion really illustrates how far Holmes and Campbell have taken the organization in a short time.  Sheila Hamp deserves props, too.

Gibbs may be the most talented player on the team.  LaPorta just had one of the best rookie TE seasons of all time and is poised to be a star.  St. Brown is the best slot in the league.  Hutchinson is a tier 1 DE.  Sewell is an all-pro RT.  Ragnow is an all-pro C.  This is the best Lions roster in my lifetime, only challenged by the underperforming 90s squads that had poor coaching and never had a real QB.

BUT--we need more stars on defense.  McNeil looks like the real deal and signing Reader was huge, but we need more balance on the roster and playmakers on the back end.  I'm hoping CD3 can be one of those guys and that he stays healthy.  Branch is very good but not yet a game-changer.  Hoping he and one of the young safeties make a leap this year.

We currently have 14 players…

We currently have 14 players in draft range and four more in the top 356.

It's not looking great to break the record.  Tying the record is very plausible and breaking the record is certainly possible.

FWIW, I think Josh Wallace has a good chance to be drafted.  I also believe all 18 prospects are on NFL rosters in the fall.

Those shot mechanics...he…

Those shot mechanics...he looks like a robot or a copy/paste from Tecmo NBA Basketball.  And I mean that in the best way possible.

This could be a tournament team in May's first season.

+1 Insightful

+1 Insightful

Great.  Now there are no OSU…

Great.  Now there are no OSU players I like in this draft.

Brock Wright had 91…

Brock Wright had 91 receiving yards last year.  Before we had Laporta (2022), he had 216.  He's not at replacement level for a pass-catching TE.  I think Stover is.

I think Newton is…

I think Newton is significantly better at football than JPJ.  The Lions don't draft for need.  Nor should they.  If the grades were similar then need might win, but Newton is too good to pass on, IMO.

I think there's a decent…

I think there's a decent chance DeJean is there, though less likely than Newton.  Honestly, I think Newton is the better player, but DeJean and McKinstry are both good options if they're there at 29.

Good ideas.  Maybe next year!

Good ideas.  Maybe next year!

I don't like Suamataia's…

I don't like Suamataia's inconsistency.  We need help all along the OL and I like Barton and JPJ if they are there at #29.  I'd love Latham, but that's a pipe dream.  Suamataia may go to the Chiefs at 32; I'm not comfortable with his value until later in the second round.

Thank you!  This is what…

Thank you!  This is what makes the draft fun--all the different perspectives.

  • On Thomas, we'll have to agree to disagree.  I see an inconsistent route runner with focus issues, and a guy that may be more like the burners of past draft that never panned out.  He lacks the wiggle in the open field and the intermediate route chops that define most great NFL WRs.  To me, he looks like an upgraded version of Jalin Hyatt.  But I 100% agree that he's likely long gone by #29; the league has always been infatuated with his kind of talent, even though it rarely pans out.
  • Mims...limited tape, multiple injuries...there is just too much uncertainty.  You are clearly more comfortable with his bust risk than I am, and that's okay--Mims has one of the highest ceilings in the draft and could easily end-up the best OL of the class.
  • Wiggins does not look good in run support.  He is not a great tackler.  He is the best man cover man in the class, and on a different team I would like him more, but in the NFL if you're a bad tackler or weak in run support, the ball finds you, and the Lions don't abide that.
  • Green, to me, is a fierce competitor who will have to refine his handsy play.  At his best, he looks like one of the best man cover guys in the class.  At his worst he's a walking flag.  I'm more comfortable with his type of risk than Thomas or Mims.
  • You are right on Tampa.  He's not really a fit for the Lions.  I just like him as a player so much and think he'll be a very, very good CB on someone's team, so I kept him high.  I don't want the Lions to pick him, but I'm higher on him than the consensus.
  • Darius Robinson has traits, tenacity, and block-shedding abilities that are hard to teach.  He's a VERY different player from Walker, and I wouldn't be drafting him primarily as a pass-rusher, but rather an all-around DE in a more old-school role.  I'm more comfortable with his developmental risks because he's already got the skills and build to be great against the run and troublesome as a power rusher.  He dominated one-on-one reps at the Senior Bowl.  He's not a first-round talent, and nowhere near the value of the #1 overall pick.  He's like a harder-working version of Tyree Wilson.

Thank you for the great discussion!

Thank you!  Almost done, and…

Thank you!  Almost done, and this one was the most work by far.  I wish images were working so it wasn't a wall of text...

Not sure why the images aren…

Not sure why the images aren't showing up...not working here either.

Here are some helpful links:

2024 Consensus Big Board

Draft Value Chart

 

Thank you!  Part 2 coming…

Thank you!  Part 2 coming today.

I think most people are…

I think most people are VASTLY underestimating the cost of the imagined "Orji Offense."

Being good at a QB-based running game is not simply adding plays to the playbook.  It takes a tremendous amount of time, repetition, and technique work that is not applicable to other styles of play.  This means eschewing the NFL passing game principles we've installed over the past few years and sets back every player on the roster in that regard, affecting not just this year's offense but future teams as well.

Further, there's a serious question about the ability to even build a competent option-based offense in one off-season.  Just as the concepts Michigan has been built on over the past few years of success took time and repetition (years, not weeks) to master (such as Duo, Counter, Pin & Pull, Daggers, Crossers, etc.), and option game demands different muscle memory and technique.

While I too fantasize about Orji trucking and juking fools into the end zone with QB Oh Noes and play action bombs, the reality is that it's unlikely we can install what will be a whole new offense and have it be great, or even very good, in year one.

There is time to install and rep a few new plays that can expand on the very limited Orji package from last year, but it's neither prudent nor realistic to believe we can remake an offense this year.  And that's without considering the long-term costs of making that switch.

Michigan won three B1G title and a MNC by being a better version of Wisconsin: a stubborn adherence to base running plays combined with great defense, timely passing prowess, and trick plays that got chunks.  I don't want to give up that formula because we don't have the perfect QB this year.

Uh...does it?  I think it…

Uh...does it?  I think it would make more sense if the Chargers needed help at FB.

EDIT: Yeah, I missed the obvious joke here and I'll take my L.

they all hired their friends…

they all hired their friends or kept current staff

Reading is hard, isn't it?  Hoke's best hire was someone he knew (Mattison) but wasn't on his staff.  Rich Rod and Hoke both incorrectly assumed that their current staffs would be good enough at Michigan (since they had been good enough at previous stops) instead of looking for the best talent.  Patricia hired his friends, and his staff was one of the worst groups I've ever seen in the NFL.

Sherrone took recommendations from people he trusted to hire Wink and Morgan.  He largely promoted from within on offense or hired known quantities who had demonstrated success at Michigan.  Alford was someone he knew, but he still had to go poach him from a rival; same with Scruggs, even though that didn't work out.  He also had to go get BJM to make a lateral move.

If you can't see the difference between the way Moore has built his staff compared to Hoke and Rich Rod (and certainly to Matt Patricia), you're not honestly looking.

AGREE.

The best way to…

AGREE.

The best way to judge a new football coach in their early days is by whom they hire.  Sherrone, so far, is killing it in that department.

Look at some bad hires: Matt Patricia, Rich Rod, Brady Hoke...they all hired their friends or kept current staff instead of getting the best people.  Sherrone has hired some friends, but he's also gone outside his circle to poach proven talent (Wink, Alford, Morgan) and brought back some faces that had moved on (BJM, Casula).

I'm very optimistic.  While I think it may take him a couple of years to lock in his style and best practices (ie, who calls plays?  what works best for him in recruiting?  how does he manage NIL?) and get the machine rolling (remember, it took Harbaugh--a coaching master--six years to get there) his start looks promising.

Especially when both cooks…

Especially when both cooks think they're the smartest in the room.  Two Gordon Ramsays running the OSU kitchen?  Yes, please.

Yep.
I'm hoping quite a bit.
  1. Yep.
  2. I'm hoping quite a bit.
This has been corroborated…

This has been corroborated by some more reliable sources and 11W seems scared it's happening.  So I object to the source but it appears the post is valid.

Nope.  We've still got 18 in…

Nope.  We've still got 18 in.  And I think 14 are sure bets to be drafted, with a chance at 16-18.  All 18 are ranked in the top 300 and there are 257 picks.  Henderson is ranked 258 and CJ is 270.  I'd be shocked if CJ doesn't get drafted.  I think Henderson gets drafted.  Wallace and Barnhart are 272 and 273; Barnhart is likely to get drafted based on the UM reputation and scouting combine interviews.  Jones is at 292 and more athletically gifted than nearly all the other UM OL in the class; he's got a shot.

TL;DR: I think it's more likely we set the record than not.

Egbuka: "I should have gone…

Egbuka: "I should have gone pro."

Tyler Nubin at 29?  Fornelli…

Tyler Nubin at 29?  Fornelli must be trolling the Lions.

Media narratives are so…

Media narratives are so ridiculous.  I listen to a bunch of NFL podcasts (especially during draft season) and the takes often make no sense.  DJ and Bucky are great though, and the intel is often good on the shows and conversations usually fun.  The PFF podcast actually criticized the TD throw to Wilson vs. OSU as an example of bad decision-making!

JJ has proven he can make all the throws.  He needs work on some of his deep balls and layering intermediate passes.  He knows that and he's already working on it and making progress.

Like all the QBs in the class, he's got some flaws.  But not one reasonable can dispute (because it's on tape):

  • He's an accurate passer with sufficient arm talent
  • He makes good decisions with the ball
  • He can extend plays and keep his eyes downfield, and throws well on the run, especially to his right (but don't forget that pass to Mullings on the left sideline, or the throw across his body to the opposite deep field)
  • He's an exceptional athlete with the ability create on his own (likely second to only Daniels in this class)
  • He has demonstrated the leadership qualities that drive success
  • He has the courage, processing, accuracy, and arm strength to threaten and capitalize on the middle of the field (this is CRUCIAL in the NFL)

It's also fair to say:

  • He needs more time-on-task
  • Sometimes, especially early in games, he seems to have brain farts ('Bama, TCU)
  • His frame may not hold up if he's asked to be a runner in the NFL
  • His deep posts and fades need refining

There's a lot to like there and not much to criticize.  He's not quite as toolsy as Drake Maye or Jayden Daniels, but his skillset seems much more in line with what teams NEED to win a Superbowl.  Sure, everyone wants the "best" arm, the most athletic rusher, or the highest ceiling.  Tom Brady had none of those things.  Patrick Mahomes has an amazing arm, but isn't the best athlete.  Joe Montana had none of those things.  

In today's NFL, you don't need the best traits.  You need to be good enough at everything to WIN.  If traits won superbowls, Lamar Jackson and Josh Allen would beat the Chiefs every time.  Heck, Justin Fields would be dominating the NFC.

JJ is great at some things, very good at almost everything, and has a few very fixable shortcomings.  In this class, he may have the lowest floor, and, in terms of WINNING, he may have the highest ceiling.  Williams (holds the ball, plays hero ball), Maye (crazy inconsistent), Daniels (frame may not hold up, especially with his running style), Nix (average arm), Penix (injuries and inconsistency), and whomever else you want to include in the discussion all have glaring weaknesses that may derail their careers.  Where's JJ's?

They are both about to face…

They are both about to face a predator that might be more lethal than mountain lions.

As a Coloradan, I'm in favor…

As a Coloradan, I'm in favor of this.  We have too many marmots.

I was referring to the…

I was referring to the Sanderson situation.

Like it or not it's a huge…

Like it or not it's a huge part of our state's economy and culture.  It's definitely relevant if you care about Michigan as a place.

It was more fun when they were just an obnoxious, insecure rival.  Now that they're a moral tire-fire it's less funny and more troubling.

Party affiliation is part of…

Party affiliation is part of the trustee election process.  It infects almost everything these days.

Interesting...where does…

Interesting...where does assault land in your interpretation of ethics?

Yes, I'm being a smart ass, and Juwan seems like a genuine person, but he definitely has anger issues that compromise his ability to control himself.

Cornelius Johnson is our…

Cornelius Johnson is our most underrated prospect.  I think he'll be a solid WR2 in the NFL.

Other underrated guys: McGregor, Barner, Wallace, Harrell, Barrett.

That would be ideal but we…

That would be ideal but we need to get value.  I'd be happy with an IOL pick if there's great value at the position, or almost any position if the value is extreme.  Can't draft for need early--must get value!

A big part of this is just…

A big part of this is just recency bias.  Zinter won't have the opportunity to physically perform during workouts and missed the post-season evaluation games.  Much like recruiting rankings move, scouts will move other guys up that performed well during these periods.

This could be wrong, but I don't see how Zinter isn't in the conversation for OG1 (and he's clearly not) pre-injury, so perhaps the damage is already fully done.

It's a weird draft with a…

It's a weird draft with a pile of very good RBs (about 7-8) that come in different styles.  Beauty will be in the eye of the beholder.

Blake could go anywhere from late 2nd to early 5th, IMO.  O/U middle of the 4th round.

That said, if he tests well it could change that.  I also believe he would dramatically outplay a 4th-round selection in terms of value.  His traits translate well to the NFL and having him on the field is not a tell.  He's got the vision, contact balance, and acceleration to consistently get yards, set-up blocks, and win short yardage battles.

He'd be a great fit on the Ravens, Eagles, Titans, Chargers, and Vikings, and other teams like the Bears, Panthers, Packers, Rams, and Bucs could all use the depth he'd add.

I think he's good enough to be RB1 but unlikely to be a game-changer like McCaffery, Barkley, Gibbs, Robinson.  He would shine as RB2 almost anywhere.

Detroit is not a great fit as we already have two excellent RBs under contract.

Unfortunately, education…

Unfortunately, education doesn't solve the problem.  What players/people need is good, fiduciary advice and representation.  Lots of these players have people taking advantage of them and while it's easy for us to say $100M should last forever, having the wrong people around you can drain any amount of money very quickly.

Mike Vick's story is a great example of this.  His "financial advisor" was the driving force behind virtually every bad decision he made.

I have HUGE concerns about this with NIL.  College kids are even more likely to get hoodwinked than pros.

I'm rooting for Jim's…

I'm rooting for Jim's success.  I don't want him to win the superbowl because I want the Lions to win the superbowl.  But I'm not mad at him and don't hold any grudges.  He's giving people a choice to move to the NFL, not trying to hurt Michigan.

Let's give Moore a chance and see what the new staff does.  I'm excited for a new era of Michigan football.

Seems like he would be an…

Seems like he would be an amazing college DC once he has the requisite experience and skills.  Good for him!

I get that the process has…

I get that the process has sucked.

But either Cullen or Wink would be great hires, IMO.

AG gets way too much hate. …

AG gets way too much hate.  The defense made a giant leap this year without the infusion of talent they tried to buy (CJDJ and Mosely barely played).

2024 is the year to judge AG.  Assuming we talent at CB and along the defensive line, he'll have the tools to the job.

To this point, he's been working with a roster that I'd put in the bottom ten of defensive talent across the league, maybe the bottom five.

This is a true Michigan fan…

This is a true Michigan fan right here.

No.

These are critical days…

No.

These are critical days for Sherrone.  He could stick with Campbell and promote him to OC, but he has to weigh his chances for adding a mind like Moorhead to the staff.  Is Moorhead a fit culturally and philosophically?  What about Jason Candle?  

It can feel easy to stay in house.  But the most important thing is building the best possible staff.  That doesn't always mean the best minds--if Moorhead isn't a fit then he's not a good choice, even if he's a great playcaller.

Moore's staff will dictate his success more than any other single factor, as it did with Harbaugh.  I'm hoping and praying he has the wisdom and resources to build a great team.

I love your optimism, but…

I love your optimism, but even with all of those changes it's still the most difficult schedule in the history of college football.

Does that mean we won't make the playoff?  Not at all.  But it means I'm really happy the playoff is expanded next year.

True, but our best team,…

True, but our best team, maybe ever, just barely beat their team last year.  It looks like the '24 version might be even more talented.

Look, I'm not scared or worried or sweating over here.  But going to the Shoe to face that team is going to be a big test.  I'd feel a lot more confident if all these guys weren't coming back.

That said, we're the National Champions, and there's nothing they can do to change that.  GO BLUE!

I don't know what to say…

I don't know what to say other than thank you for your courage and vulnerability, and I'm glad you're still here!