Is Sherrone Moore going to be David Shaw 2.0?

Submitted by Reno Drew on January 25th, 2024 at 10:26 AM

Full Disclosure- I'd love to have Coach Moore take over as HC.  I've also been a David Shaw fan, in part, because he went to high school with my brother at Rochester Adams.

If Michigan goes with Coach Moore, I started last night about what Michigan could learn from Shaw's run at Stanford.  It's a similar situation- popular OC takes over as Harbaugh goes to the pros.  Shaw did have the advantage of having Andrew Luck at QB  for his first season as HC while Michigan's coach next year will be starting over from scratch. 

Shaw had 8  winning season, 3 Pac 10 Championships and was 4 x Pac 10 coach of the year before the wheels fell off the program.  Watching his teams at their peak, they still had that "Harbaugh edge" to them.   I'm not entirely sure what happened to their program but it sounds like the combination of high academic standards and Stanford not being quite as up to date on the changing landscape in recruiting did him in.  

https://www.paloaltoonline.com/2022/11/28/end-of-an-era-david-shaw-closes-door-on-magical-tenure-as-stanfords-football-coach/

 

 

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Ollie Williams

January 25th, 2024 at 10:30 AM ^

I think David Shaws Stanford is indeed the model. Retain as many coaches and culture as you can. Stick to the blueprint JH left behind.

Above all, i like that he doubled down on pro-style with usage of TEs and fullbacks post-Harbaugh. I think that michigan needs to do the same.

I don't want michigan to attempt to be the, say, 6th or 7th best spread team in college football. I'd rather us be the best pro-style school, especially with wisconsin going away from that scheme. You can bully smaller spread defenses in a way that other teams cannot.

Now to be fair, I like the idea of introducing modern elements like motion and tempo, but you get what Im saying...

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Bo Harbaugh

January 25th, 2024 at 11:00 AM ^

UM's problem going forward will be keeping up with the times.

We failed during the BCS and most of the CFP era to keep up with OSU and the SEC football factories.  

A big part of this is coaching and coordinators, but let's not be naive here.  The biggest part of UM falling behind was not recruiting and developing like the NFL minor leagues.

We'd have some great, talented classes come in, but they weren't spending 3/4 their time in the football facilities and studying tape like at OSU. Then we also saw a relative drop off in recruiting.  We thought the 1990's model would continue to work, or were too afraid to change.

How we handle NIL, coordinator hires, and continue with our "unique culture" - if possible - will determine where the program goes.

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maizerayz

January 25th, 2024 at 10:30 AM ^

Something tells me there's a chance Harbaugh will be back in the future.

He'll def have success with the Chargers, but the players stopped responding to him in SF, and may very happen again. By that time the bullshit NCAA penalties should be over.

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jhayes1189

January 25th, 2024 at 11:51 AM ^

Jim Harbaugh is quoted saying that his dad told him, “Coach until you feel like you can’t do it anymore, and then coach for two more years” 

 

and also, 

“Play as long as you can, coach as long as you can, then die” 

or something like that. 
 

I could see the NFL getting tired of him after 5 years, and also thinking he’s too old. I could also see Michigan hungry to at least have his presence around the program again. Sort of like a Bo esque figure if anything. But him coaching here again is not out of the realm of possibility, especially if Sherrone doesn’t work out/has great success and tries the NFL/Oklahoma job for himself. 
 

The door should ALWAYS be open for Jim Harbaugh in some capacity even if it’s not coaching. IMO he always gets full access to Michigan. 

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crg

January 25th, 2024 at 10:35 AM ^

I'm not certain that Harbaugh will be as successful in LA as people are claiming.  I imagine he has 3-4 middling/good seasons there then just retires (whether or not it being *his* decision to leave the Chargers dependent upon his record).

Probably would have had a great end to his career had he stayed here.

I could be wrong... football is a strange game and not always predictable.

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MRunner73

January 25th, 2024 at 11:10 AM ^

Absolutely as there are no guarantees in football albeit NFL or college. Jim will need to do a lot of rebuilding in LA in year one. Instant success over there is unlikely. Jim had to scratch that NFL itch. It's been 3 years in the making.

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ShadowStorm33

January 25th, 2024 at 11:14 AM ^

I'm not certain that Harbaugh will be as successful in LA as people are claiming.  I imagine he has 3-4 middling/good seasons there then just retires.

Yeah, I agree. The Chargers may have been the most attractive of the open positions, but that's not saying a whole lot given that all these positions were open for a reason (I feel like talking about the open positions would go a lot like Mitch's rant from the end of Waiting...).

I don't think the Chargers are anywhere near as talented as the 49ers team that Harbaugh took over in 2011, which was actually a pretty talented roster that was badly underachieving. The Chargers are a good-to-very-good QB and not much else, with a horrible cap situation. Importantly, it looks like they have a pretty bad defense (one of the worst in the league by some metrics), which does not mesh with one of the key rules (and paradoxes) of Jim Harbaugh, namely that despite being an offensive coach, his successes have usually been built on excellent defense. Also, I think the Herbert situation is being badly overvalued. While having a good QB is nice, Harbaugh doesn't seem like a particularly good stylistic fit to harness Herbert's potential. Herbert seems like he'd be best in a wide open, passing oriented offense, and it's hard to see Harbaugh actually opening it up (it seems like the Harbaughffense is what it is at this point). And actually I wonder if Herbert is a bigger liability than a help. He has one of the largest contracts in the NFL, on a team that is already in a bad cap situation. Harbaugh's success with the 49ers came with two "value" QBs, Alex Smith who was making less than $5M/season in 2011, and Kaepernick who was on a rookie contract as a 2nd round pick ($1.25M/yr). If you're running a system that needs efficient QB play to compliment a strong running game, that is a huge help, as it allows you to invest more in other players. Having so much money tied up in Herbert, especially if Harbaugh isn't going to run a wide-open offense, seems like a recipe for disaster.

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Gustavo Fring

January 25th, 2024 at 11:30 AM ^

I mean he's never had a QB like Justin Herbert (not in the pro's, obviously Andrew Luck was elite).  The 49ers were a disaster when he got there.  

But finding a franchise QB is THE most difficult thing for an NFL team, and Harbaugh already comes in with one.  Also very curious to see if they draft Bowers.  Herbert and Bowers together in a Harbaugh offense...whew

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ShadowStorm33

January 25th, 2024 at 12:49 PM ^

Is he going to use him, though? Harbaugh had an elite QB this year, and yet JJ was usually badly underused, even when teams were selling out to stop the run. Given how we've seen him run his offenses, I think it's entirely possible that he'd be better off with a solid, but cheap, game manager QB and investing that saved money in other positions than in a very expensive, elite QB that he's going to underuse...

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rice4114

January 25th, 2024 at 1:29 PM ^

At 15-0 I say he was perfectly used. Moore/Harbaugh moneyball'd the shit out of this season. They werent coaching for accolades and awards they were playing for the big prize. Minter told them we are going to give up somewhere between 0-24 pts. Be better than 24 every single game and DO NOT give up any points on your side of the ball. They did, won them all, and bored the entire media and several fans along the way. Make no mistake we are the As (vs OSU, Bama, and Georgia) way more than we are the Yankees. Well done fellas, well done!

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ShadowStorm33

January 25th, 2024 at 2:46 PM ^

That's great, except there's no salary cap in college. Having JJ doesn't hurt your ability to get other talented players. In fact it likely helps getting guys like Edwards, Loveland and Barner to commit, and guys like Corum, Roman and Johnson to come back.

But Herbert has the second highest salary in the NFL at $52.5M/yr, only behind Burrow's $55M. That is a huge cap hit, and impacts the Chargers ability to put weapons around him or load up talent on defense. In other words, you don't have the luxury of moneyballing with Justin Herbert...

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TESOE

January 25th, 2024 at 10:31 AM ^

Harbaugh had NFL connections and Michigan connections.  Moore doesn't have either. Yeah he's at a disadvantage... but darn it... people like him.  I like him. Like it or not, he is Michigan Football at this point. Let's get behind him and get back in the ass kicking business. Next year is going to be fun!

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Beat Rutgerland

January 25th, 2024 at 10:32 AM ^

Who knows? People want to compare this to the Day hire mostly. The difference is OSU was certain they'd maintain the same level of success under Day, we have no idea if we can maintain the same level of success under Moore, we would just like to try to continue to run the program in the way that was working, and since the Michigan recipe is somewhat unique at this point, an outside hire blows it all up.

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UMVAFAN

January 25th, 2024 at 10:38 AM ^

Outside of losses to your biggest rival, I’d take Ryan Day’s record and overall success. Outside of the Ryan Day is soft and was born on third base narratives, he’s a good to elite coach and will be a favorite to lead OSU to a B1G Championship and National Title next year. We’d be lucky if Moore has that level of success.

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Monday Morning…

January 25th, 2024 at 12:53 PM ^

And "elite coach."

I mean, he's a good coach. I'll give him that. Not really sure how much further I'd go though, as he is basically about .500 vs. teams OSU should even have a chance of losing to (believe it's 1-7 vs. Top 5 and a few over .500 vs. Top 10).

Also, Sherrone Moore already outcoached him once.

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