Ohio State Fanbase Collective Cognitive Dissonance
Finally, I get to use my worthless Psych degree from LS&A '92.
Been following 11W and a few other osu slappy boards just because, you know, schadenfreude. I think like a lot of folks here, I enjoy their misery a bit more than is healthy. Particularly the one poster who talked about Saturday "ruining everything he loved about osu, and he was done with 11W." Just glorious.
Anyway, something strange has emerged as I read these mindless, droning posts over there. There is still - even now - a pervasive belief that the sign-stealing scandal is THE reason for three straight losses -- including this past Saturday. There is zero ability from the bulk of this fan base to even process the notion that they were outplayed, outmuscled, and in the case of Saturday -- outcoached, despite an accumulation of data analysis which creates absolute clarity on the reasons for each loss. The entire fanbase assigns accountability farrrr below the broken narrative they greatly prefer. They were stolen from.
Cognitive dissonance occurs when you believe two conflicting things at the same time. In this case, the osu fanbase truly believes they lost because of the sign-stealing while ALSO begrudgingly accepting they lost via X's and O's, and horrendous coaching from cryin' ryan'. Generally speaking, cognitive dissonance breaks when one of the competing ideas takes control of future action. Under normal circumstances, you would think data would eventually direct their belief system. But I'm here to reinforce something most of you already know:
That fanbase down there will never give up the notion that they have been stolen from, and that Michigan's wins will forever be tainted because of it.
And to that I say (with all the power my stupid liberal arts degree can muster): F 'em.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:42 AM ^
For a great example of dealing with adversity, just look at Jim Harbaugh -- he was off the sidelines for six games this season, yet when asked about it he talks up the preparedness of the coaches and the players, and he uses the phrase "don't get bitter, get better."
That attitude seems to pervade the program, and that culture is the X-factor in Michigan's favor. I'm seeing more and more references to the solidarity of the players, the cohesion among them, the unselfish attitudes throughout the players. There's a class of players for whom that kind of program culture is exactly what they're seeking, and the coaches seem to seek those players out.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
“Well, I'm here before you, enthusiastic and excited as I ever am, always am, even more to have at it, to win the championship, to beat Ohio and our rival Michigan State,” Harbaugh said. “That's what we want to do, and we're going to do it or die trying.”
That was in the Summer of 2021...just before the resurgence, when many UM fans were ready to toss him overboard (thank goodness Warde didn't listen to the pitchfork crowd). Harbaugh publicly put it on his shoulders and made the changes necessary to make this run possible.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:38 AM ^
I wish John U. Bacon would write a book on the behind-the-scenes activity surrounding the moment you cite and beyond. It would be a fascinating case study in organizational evaluation and change management. Was Harbaugh advised by trusted people, such as his brother John, and his father Jack? What was his top-down thinking about the key changes needed, and from that the contingent changes based on the big changes? How much iteration occurred between start of plan and initial execution? All those things would be absolutely fascinating to read about and understand better.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
100% agree. One of Harbaugh's strengths is the ability to accurately assess his own weaknesses and failings and adjust/improve. That willingness to soberly face reality is why we are where we are. I expect OSU will come around on that but if they want to live in denial that's ok by me.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:18 AM ^
Not surprising in the least. How many people were (and ARE) absolutely CERTAIN that a 1-2 PSI difference in how much a football is inflated is the SOLE REASON why the Patriots won games?
This is why I’m angry (and grudgingly impressed) with the smear campaign against Michigan: it worked. Anyone who wants an excuse has one now; they probably can’t articulate exactly WHAT Michigan has been accused of, or HOW it allegedly gave us any kind of advantage. Doesn’t matter. Michigan = “cheater” in their minds. Forever.
It’s also a good reminder that you don’t have to take everyone on the internet seriously.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
Yes, this..
The Michigan brand has been damaged from the association with words like 'scandal', 'cheater', 'stealing' all across the sports and news biosphere for several weeks. I'm sure there are people out there that can put a number on the impact this smear campaign has had on the UM brand. And I'm sure that has been taken into consideration within the halls of UM admin/legal decision-making.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:18 AM ^
Bat Shit Crazy
Dear Michigan Coaching Staff, for the sake of Ohio's collective mental health please continue this for a decade or so. It would appear that recovery is slow.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:19 AM ^
History degree from LS&A '83 here. The degree isn't worthless. It's a ticket punched that opened doors to further opportunities.
It got me commissioned as a 2nd Lieutenant in the US Army and I was off to the races.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:23 AM ^
You're 100% correct, RGard. My “worthless psych degree” comments were pure hyperbole. Truth is — my Michigan degree has catapulted my career in so many ways, I can scarcely articulate them all in a reply on this board. Thank you for that clarification.
And it goes without saying — thank you for your service, sir.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:28 AM ^
I figured on the hyperbole. :-)
And you are most welcome. I only served 5 years active duty. Never got shot at, never shot at anybody. It was a good starting point for me. I was in need of some maturity and the army helped in that respect.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:52 AM ^
Poli Sci and Econ 83 got me in to Ross mba 85.
‘83 grads- The team was very good but not great but we got to watch Anthony Carter- the most electric player until denard. And we saw Bo turn down Texas A&M!
November 29th, 2023 at 9:55 AM ^
Yep. I was in the MMB my freshman year and got to see AC's game winning catch against Indiana. Amaizing game.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
Agreed. My two LSA degrees have been invaluable in providing an unmatched foundation upon which I built two different careers. History and Communication 99.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
rgard, seen here soon after commissioning....
November 29th, 2023 at 9:56 AM ^
And in Honduras in 1988...
November 29th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
my favorite gun-wielding simian. don't mess with rgard, especially if you're a smooth brained marsupial
November 29th, 2023 at 10:09 AM ^
I scrolled through looking for the responses supporting OP's LSA degree and am fully supportive of this sub-thread. And I say that as someone with a much-derided Bachelors of General Studies, who's somehow managed to make it this far, thankful for the well-rounded education and sterling reputation of UM.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:09 AM ^
Double major in English and history here. My degrees aren't worthless. I may be poor, but I'm smart.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:52 AM ^
Great minds think alike. I do enjoy your posts here.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^
History degree here as well. It provided a structure for how I think about the world and made me immeasurably more marketable.
When I needed additional skills I went back and got an MBA at Purdue. But the quantitative skills I picked up with my master’s wouldn’t have been nearly as useful or helpful without the foundation I got at Michigan.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:19 AM ^
I'll jump in here to say I know for a fact that my Poli Sci degree (major very casually selected) got me at least one crucial job. The hiring manager flat told me that his manager was iffy on me, but when he vouched for me, she relented and said "Well, he did go to Michigan, and we could use more people on staff with good credentials." A shallow, McKinsey-instilled mind-set, but worked to my lasting benefit.
Also, can't help noticing that people with UM degrees are peppered through my current mid-Atlantic-located office (seven at last count), with nary a Buckeye to be had, and a lone Sparty (an against-stereotype great guy).
November 29th, 2023 at 9:19 AM ^
Yeah really the only way for it to change much is to keep winning.
But the "you're a bunch of cheaters" thing will sit in their collective mindset for many decades I think. The PR smear campaign won out.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:36 AM ^
It could still be ongoing. We don't know the contract details. And it should be pointed out that psyop campaigns include astroturfing. This wasn't invented with the Internet. Propaganda has always included roles for plants, rabble-rousers, sycophants, and shills, from like fucking ancient times.
11W doesn't need the help, but after knowing a PR firm was involved, does everyone here seriously believe every opinion they read was 100% pure organic grassroots?
MGoBlog's fixation with other fanbases on the Internet is dangerously naive. Yes, a lot of them are loons, but they're almost certainly being manipulated in this case, yet that mess is getting constantly signal-boosted here.
November 29th, 2023 at 12:08 PM ^
Looking at youtube videos, some of these "cheaterz" comments are from obvious bots. Someone has made a sizeable investment to automate this smear campaign. College football is officially serious bizness
November 29th, 2023 at 9:37 AM ^
It'll live on in the minds of MSU and OSU fans because they want to believe that our success wasn't because of us. Who cares?
They are always looking for an excuse to discount our success and if it wasn't Stalions, it would have been something else (e.g., the snow, sickness, 5 plays). The longer their coaches actually believe that nonsense, the longer it'll take them to wake up and make the changes needed to pass our program. Let them believe their lies.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^
♫ Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest...
Lie-la-lie... ♫
November 29th, 2023 at 9:21 AM ^
There are a few basic metrics - which I would define as subjective in nature - that are reference points for me. One of those is.. quality of execution.
Michigan just played better over the past three seasons. And, single plays make a collective difference. In ‘22, I think of Sainristil’s PBU. The fourth quarter drive this past Saturday. The list goes on.
At the core is.. resiliency. What were you thinking when the core was 17-17 on Saturday? How about when the Buckeyes took the kickoff with about a minute to play and down only six, 30-24?
Obviously, I think scheme, development, and effort are extremely important too.
The O, D, and Special Teams executed well. Go Blue!
November 29th, 2023 at 11:56 AM ^
I never once felt that OSU had the upper hand in the game, not when it was 17-17 or when it was 30-24 and they had the ball. It always seemed that Michigan was in control.
November 29th, 2023 at 7:05 PM ^
That, and Michigan went through more than a decade of having a broken starting QB by the end of the year because of injuries. While McCarthy may not be 100%, he's in much better shape than the Michigan QBs who preceded him since the mid-90s.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^
As a gesture of good sportsmanship I propose we give them back their signs before next year's game.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^
OP? Surely your psych degree plus your time observing humans on this planet have shown you that people are typically not logical/rational in their thinking. Bucknut fans are currently incapable of believing that they've been outplayed, out coached, out hussled, out muscled, out toughed, and (gasp) out scored three times in a row - in (to quote Rich Eisen) "glorious fashion".
They lost. Let 'em be. They lost.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:23 AM ^
Every fan base has its lunatic fringe, but 11 Warriors forum threads are, in the main, case studies in delusion.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
i've seen a couple rational buckeye fans post on X that a lot of their success in the rivalry came from beating Hoke/RichRod teams (including players from those teams that were under Harbaugh) and it's time for them to accept the fact that Michigan is just better team.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
I sent a very respectable email to one of my buckeye friends. I was not gloating or rubbing anything in. I have not heard a peep from him. Complete silence. Rich Eisen was right. Complete silence from Buckeye nation.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
I know, I know... "no politics". But this exact same mindset has now crept into elections as well lately. "I/We didn't lose, it was stolen!" People just can't take a fucking beating anymore without "blaming" someone or something else. Just take your licks and move the fuck on.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:00 AM ^
It's not even just politics. It feels like society as a whole has gotten a whole lot more conspiritorial in the last like 10 years and one has to think social media is to blame. Gen X / Boomers will believe anything they see on Facebook, Gen Z is getting bombarded with opinion and conspiracy theories disguised as fact on TikTok, and honestly I think Millenialls are some of the few people right now with any media literacy because they grew up through the rise of social media so they can identify the BS. But minority opinions are amplified and reinforced in echo chambers and I'm not sure there's much to be done with the rising conspiracy theory mongering and tribalism. Even on this blog, it's hard to deny there hasn't been some wild stuff said during the Connor Stalions scandal
November 29th, 2023 at 10:14 AM ^
The internet and its unholy spawn social media are the most powerful engines for motivated reasoning in human history.
November 29th, 2023 at 10:25 AM ^
We live in a world now where facts don’t matter to a lot of people.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
Michigan and Ohio State both have very influential “blogorati.” [0]
My totally biased, but I believe accurate, take is that Michigan’s blogorati respects the critical thinking skills of their fanbase. Compare that to OSU’s blogorati who are very quick to give their fanbase talking points to hide uncomfortable truths.
OSU’s is certainly a strategy, but one that gets real ugly when the music stops. OSU may be much closer to a long winter than anyone over there is able to recognize.
[0] Blogorati: made up and probably misspelled term to describe the Brians and Seths of the sports blog worlds.
November 29th, 2023 at 11:42 AM ^
That is politics, but probably okay to post because it’s an approved view.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:25 AM ^
It's insane, but that's college football fandom. During the depths of the BPONE years, while MOST people here were just disappointed and frustrated, we had our fair share of nut jobs posting their takes and "reasons" as to why this The Game or that The Game didn't go our way.
I've met many OSU fans who are perfectly reasonable people. Message boards are not representative of a fanbase (ok well maybe in East Lansing).
That said, the answer is the same - win the game on the field or shut the fuck up. It was true for us when we were down bad, it's true for them now. Think we stole your signs? win the game. You have a roster full of 5 stars who don't go to school. Think we hacked your practice footage? win the game, hack ours back and steal our signs from other teams - oh wait you did. Think the refs fucked you over? win the game - refs make bad calls all the time, don't put yourself in the position to let them take it from you.
To quote Biff Poggi, Quit whining and get a better team and stop coming up with reasons why "next year will be the year unless of course Xichigan buys our playbook on the Silk Road." I agree with Semaj Morgan's take on Ryan Day and their team
November 29th, 2023 at 9:33 AM ^
I've met many OSU fans who are perfectly reasonable
I don't want to believe this, so it must not be true.
BOOM. /petitti'd/
November 29th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
Yeah. I’m not going to pile on OSU fans too much because the takes on here after the 2019 game were beyond embarrassing - that goes for the writers and posters.
Anyone remember this gem?https://www.mgoblog.com/content/obligation
OSU lost to Michigan the last 3 years for the same reasons Michigan got their butt handed to them by Tressel and Urban (scheme, talent {development and deployment} & in game coaching). Anything else is just crying and sour grapes - that goes for everyone.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:25 AM ^
They still have a great shot to make it in the playoffs.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:40 AM ^
I’m not sure about that. The SEC and PAC-12 champs will be - at worst - one loss teams, the Buckeyes won’t pass them.
I’ll be cheering for Michigan, Texas, FSU, and Bama.
If the Buckeyes somehow were invited to the CFP, would it be the third time they reached the CFP without winning the B1G or even their division?
November 29th, 2023 at 9:48 AM ^
A shot, not great shot.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:57 AM ^
Yes, a 50-1 shot according to Vegas
November 29th, 2023 at 9:28 AM ^
The longer it takes them to figure it out the better.
November 29th, 2023 at 9:28 AM ^
Also, change your fucking signs.