ACC says "No" to expanded CFP
Headline says it all:
Quotes from ACC commissioner Jim Phillips: "The membership of the ACC is very much aligned in its position that now is not the time to expand the College Football Playoff."
Phillips says the ACC is more focused on working with the other conferences on "much larger issues" facing college athletics, like NCAA reform. "It's been our position since the middle of November or so."
Phillips says they got feedback from ACC athletes, and Clemson "does not want to play any extra games."
January 14th, 2022 at 12:03 PM ^
I agree with this.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:48 PM ^
Agree. Now eliminate the 4 team playoff.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:03 PM ^
Co-sign. Having a postseason with only three games that players value enough not to sit out is terrible for college football. We should got back to the pre-BCS days and just argue all offseason. That was much more fun. I will die a bloody death on this hill.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:20 PM ^
Having a postseason with only three games that players value enough not to sit out is terrible for college football. We should got back to the pre-BCS days and just argue all offseason.
That's not going to curb players sitting out NY6 bowl games for teams not in the top 2-3. That's a bell that cannot be unrung.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:59 PM ^
Agree. I'm not sure what stopped players before, but it wasn't how much they cared about the bowls. If anything, I think it speaks to the power of groupthink in human behavior. Everyone played in the bowl games, so everyone played in the games. When Ted Ginn Jr sat out the rest of the national championship game in response to a questionable injury, there was a lot of criticism for it, and very few players wanted to be the focus of that kind of attention.
I don't think it makes a lot more sense to skip a bowl game now than before, but now (1) you're not the only one doing it and (2) it's clear NFL teams don't lower their evaluation of a player who does, so it happens. And for an individual considering it, it's a much easier step to take. Removing playoffs and having bowl games become more important does little to change those two factors.
January 15th, 2022 at 1:02 AM ^
I think the bell could be unrung if leaders in the CFB world can successfully argue to the NFL that there exists a symbiosis between the league and the NCAA, and that this trend is deleterious to the very institution from which, in so many ways, the league was first spawned and respawns itself with every draft. CFB is the tree that produces all the ripest NFL apples. Ultimately, this phenomenon is not good for the root structure, and if the word was sent forth from NFL front offices that they discouraged this practice, I tend to think what became a widespread problem almost overnight would also cease overnight.
As others have stated, nothing has fundamentally changed in this construct — pre-BCS, BCS, or Playoff Era — except the NFL’s tolerance for it. I don’t imagine many front offices would have drafted players who willingly sat out games throughout most of the history of the NFL. This is happening because it’s being allowed to happen.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:58 PM ^
I don't think you can put the genie back in the bottle at this point. If you get rid of the playoff now, there might not be any games that are important enough for potentially high draft picks not to sit out.
Opt outs were somewhat independent of the CFP and they'll continue to happen.
Reverting would probably make it worse because you'll have bowl games for which one team is playing for a national title, and the other isn't which will mean players on one side will opt out but not the other. At least with a playoff, all participants have the same stakes.
January 14th, 2022 at 2:48 PM ^
It does raise the question, what's the difference between a bowl game and a late season "meaningless" game when it comes to the ability of a player to decide to sit out? Is it just a matter of time before we see more of the latter, or is there something that would prevent players from doing that?
January 14th, 2022 at 6:17 PM ^
Correct, right now because of limited number of spots there are no meaningless games. But if you expand to 8 or especially 16, you're going to have a situation where late season games don't mean much, a la the NFL.
January 14th, 2022 at 6:22 PM ^
It’s just a matter of time…unless the player’s NIL deals prevent it.
January 14th, 2022 at 3:04 PM ^
I'm 100% with Eric in Dayton. College football was special because you want your team to be better than your cross-state rival or your border state rivalry. The Indiana-Purdue Oaken Bucket meant something. The Paul Bunyan trophy and the Brown Jug meant something. Winning the Rose Bowl or Orange Bowl meant something. I would keep track of the Big Ten's W-L in bowls every year and would watch every game. Now only 3 games matter. (and Michigan OSU)
Doesn't even matter if you don't win your conference championship.
I think it would be cool if the conference championships determined your bowl match ups and that the teams that won their bowl games who had the strongest SOS (calculated after the bowl games) would play for the National Championship. It probably would have ended up with the same teams in the National Championship this year, but there would be all sorts of attention paid to all of the bowl games and there would be a lot of pressure for players to play. If the number 2 and 3 teams were close in SOS you would watch everyone of their season opponents bowl games. I'd also add a kicker that your conferences overall bowl record gives an extra nudge just to mess with ND.
January 14th, 2022 at 3:12 PM ^
If you go back to the pre-BCS days, we probably could've claimed a national title this year. 12-1 Big Ten champ Michigan goes to the Rose Bowl and probably beats a Utah team that is basically Michigan lite. 13-1 national champs baby
January 14th, 2022 at 6:30 PM ^
I'll fight on that hill as well.
January 14th, 2022 at 9:08 PM ^
January 14th, 2022 at 3:28 PM ^
I fully support the +1 model that was under consideration before the CFP. Set up the top (8 or so) teams in trap-game style match ups for the NY bowls and then handpick the two "most deserving" teams based on overall resume.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:06 PM ^
Clemson is running that conference. I am not in favor of expansion, but it is still clear that Clemson is in charge over there.
I think expansion does create too many games for 18-22 year old football players. I do not think it is in the best interest of the players long term health. I also do not think it will change their NIL deals by any significant amount.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:24 PM ^
Compare FBS playoffs (4 teams) to FCS (24 playoff teams, 12 game seasons), to Division II (24 playoff teams, 10 game seasons), to Division III (32 playoff teams, 10 game seasons).
January 14th, 2022 at 12:47 PM ^
Please, some people don't like it when facts are brought into a discussion.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:30 PM ^
Those are all consistent with current number of games at the FBS level. FBS has two teams that will generally play 15 (12 + conference championship + 2 playoffs). Maybe another 20 play 14 games, and a further 60 play 13 games with the bowl. The FCS plays 11 regular season games and as far as I know, there are no conference championships. The FCS finalists generally will have a bye in the tournament and thus play 15 games. You'll have a couple more semifinalists play 14-15 games and a few more at 13-14. DII and DIII obviously only have a couple teams max out at 14 and a handful more that play 13.
FBS on average plays the most games of any division and the finalists match or exceed other division finalists. Adding rounds to the playoffs without reducing regular season contests will absolutely mean more games for the elite teams than any other division.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:51 PM ^
Ok, lets get rid of 2 non-con games. (Making the group of 5 schools more irrelevant) and play a 10 game schedule. Then we can talk about a playoff expansion.
I still think the pre-BCS era was better though.
January 14th, 2022 at 3:12 PM ^
FCS has 24 teams make it so the same team can win it pretty much every year in NDSU.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:53 PM ^
Funny, the kids in Div 1-AA Div II and Div III are able to play all of those games without it ruining their lives.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:49 PM ^
I don't think it is good for them either.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:56 PM ^
There are solutions: go back to an 11-game schedule and/or eliminate conference title games.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:45 PM ^
I agree, but now you're running into a money issue. Drop the conference championship and how much does the conference lose? $20M? I honestly have no idea. But conferences would need to feel confident they would make up the difference in playoff payout. In what may be a tougher sell, dropping to 11 games means the bigger conferences lose 10-14 gates and games in the media package for sale. Can that be made up for each conference member?
I'm afraid that schools have become too dependent on football money for a reduction of games to happen.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:54 PM ^
The other issue, every conference is guaranteed that someone in their conference will win their big showcase Conference Championship Game.
In an expanded playoff, a lot of conferences would only send 1 team and that team might lose, might even be blown out. Ruins the best moment of the season for the entire conference brand.
January 14th, 2022 at 2:12 PM ^
It’s easier to drop a conference championship than reduce everybody’s season to 11 games. An expanded playoff should help offset the revenue loss from one game. But to do this, conferences would need to get rid of divisions - which would honestly make it a better sport anyway. Divisions are often uneven and reduce the chances of playing every team in your own conference (a Michigan player right now doesn’t even get to play some West teams over the course of 4 years).
January 14th, 2022 at 1:26 PM ^
A 12 team playoff gives you, at most, 4 additional games after your 13 regular season/conf title. Teams in the current model already play 2 additional games.
Drop one of the pointless non conference games and you’re talking about only 1 additional game. For the top 4 seeds who earn a bye, they’re playing 0 games more than are currently played.
11 regular season, 1 conference title, 3-4 playoff games for the national title participants. Worst case scenario is you have one or two teams playing 16 games. More often than not, the championship will be between two of the top 4 seeds, at which point the max games played is 15. Same as it is now.
January 14th, 2022 at 2:15 PM ^
Eliminate one regular-season game and the conference championship games, and all-conference champs are locked in; the next 10 spots are at large. Chances are HIGH that if 2 power 5 teams are tied, they are both getting in anyway or don't belong in.
- Seed teams 1-5 in 4 different regions based on the four #1 seeds.
- The highest seed hosts the games.
- Seeds 4 & 5 play each other. The winner plays the #1 seed the loser is bowl eligible. (What are the chances that one of them runs the table, and if they do, is anyone on that team going to complain about the number of games?)
This at least creates some excitement for more than the top 6-8 teams and the top 25 truly means something again. The rest of the teams can play in the Bowl Games. Sucks for some of the Bowl Games with tradition but if we are all being honest that tradition is long gone.
Added bonus it allows season ticket holders of the better teams to actually get a ticket at face value for a postseason game.
January 14th, 2022 at 2:58 PM ^
My only issue with the elimination of conference championship games is that some of these conferences have gotten so big, that there’s going to be times with no realistic way to determine “conference champions” without one. How do you determine a conference champion in the 16 team SEC? With 9 conference games (they currently play 8) you’re still looking at not playing 6 of the teams in your conference each year.
So giving conference champions an autobid at that point is irrelevant. Hell, NAMING a conference champ is going to be irrelevant. And at that point, conferences in general are irrelevant. Everyone might as well be independent, schedule whoever they want and then the playoffs are what they are.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:44 PM ^
Clemson's reign . . . is over
January 14th, 2022 at 12:06 PM ^
I agree with this (or would go to 6 or 8 absolute max) to preserve the do-or-die nature and drama of the regular season. With that said, the obvious reason here is that when Clemson is good they will make it at 4 and when Clemson is bad no ACC team will make it no matter how big you go.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:49 PM ^
I agree with this (or would go to 6 or 8 absolute max) to preserve the do-or-die nature and drama of the regular season
Wait wait wait people like the "do-or-die nature and drama of the regular season?" I'd much rather have the OSU game not determine our whole season and have another chance to win it all if we're a top 5 team that loses to a top 5 OSU
January 14th, 2022 at 12:08 PM ^
Posturing from a guy and a conference with very little leverage
January 14th, 2022 at 12:35 PM ^
I read a reporter on twitter (forget who) that the hang up for the ACC is how ND is classified relative to an 8 or 12 team playoff. ACC wants ND counted as a member institution of the ACC - obviously for more money in the coffers. i can’t remember exactly, i’ve been smoking banana peels, but it was something like if it’s 8 they want ND included in ACC but would be okay with 12 and no ND. Or I could have that reversed. So ACC is dragging their feet on expansion until that is defined.
No clue how accurate and/or dialed in the reporter is/was.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:48 PM ^
I believe they're trying to force ND to fully join the ACC. A 12-team playoff makes it much easier for an at-large ND to make the field, whereas it's difficult for them to make it now, or even with eight (fewer at-large than a field 12).
January 14th, 2022 at 12:08 PM ^
I’m personally fine with that. 12 teams seems like crazy overkill to me.
I could support going to 6 teams with a bye for the top 2 and the other 4 playing games at the higher seeds home field a week after the conference championships.
Anything more than that is too many games and further dilutes the regular season.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:17 PM ^
Let's go to 64! It works in basketball.
(Of course, you'd have to cut the regular season, but that's not a problem because blahblahblah, and also argle bargle.)
January 14th, 2022 at 1:16 PM ^
Eight seems like the right amount to me. I can't think of a example of any team with a plausible claim to best team in the country that landed outside the top 8, but a few times where a fluky loss landed a team out of the top 6.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:09 PM ^
Well then maybe the ACC can just stay at home and play with themselves.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:17 PM ^
What ncaa reform is he talking about?
January 14th, 2022 at 12:54 PM ^
He probably doesn't want the NCAA investigating schools like North Carolina for academic fraud anymore.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:21 PM ^
Clemson played like they didn't want to participate in any extra games this year.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:23 PM ^
I don’t think it should be expanded either. I do think that 1) it should always be played on New Years Day and that the Rose Bowl can kick rocks, or 2) the semis should be played ten days before New Year’s Day (the closest Saturday to that) with the CPF title game on NYD. It should never be played on New Years Eve. The title game is played way too long after the other bowl games. The playoff is cool. The playoff logistics are terrible.
January 14th, 2022 at 4:21 PM ^
Jackpot...
12/03/22 - Conference Championship Games
12/17/22 - CFP Semis
01/01/23 - National Championship
It's not that hard.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:24 PM ^
It’s cute they think Clemson is ever going back to the cfp
Dabo is the religious, hillbilly Coach O
No good players and no good assistants = legacy over
January 14th, 2022 at 1:17 PM ^
Clemson has a young team and they were pretty good by the end of the year.
January 14th, 2022 at 12:27 PM ^
I agree that in order to expand the playoffs, you really should shorten the regular season. A Sam Webb regular mentioned we should remove all conference championship games and add another round to the playoffs. I'm not sure how I feel about the (how are you going to determine a conference champion?), but I'm directionally aligned.
January 14th, 2022 at 1:08 PM ^
I could be - and likely am - wrong, but I think you'd basically have to shrink the conferences down so that everyone plays everyone, no? Does this do away with big, interesting match-ups with other P5 teams?
January 14th, 2022 at 4:11 PM ^
The simple solution is for the BCS committee to issue a requirement that all teams eligible for the playoffs have to play a minimum of 10 conference games and expand the playoff to 8 teams.
Even with a 16 team conference you are still playing 2/3 of the conference. There will be no incentive for a conference to play a conference championship game. If they do, they are most likely hurting the seeding chance for their best team. That outweighs the lost revenue.
Conferences can still crown a season champ based on tiebreakers. It actually makes the final games of the season more interesting as various scenarios will play out impacting who will be named conference champ.
Conferences would have less incentive to poach teams. I would guess the SEC may even look to contract 2 teams in this scenario.
10 games against "peer" institutions and 2 games against whomever you want. This allows teams with a traditional non-conference rival to keep those games. Let the playoff committee seed 8 slots based on season results.
Final change I would make is have the championship game and bowl games built around New Year's Eve and New Year's Day. New Year's Eve have 5 good bowl games (Fiesta, Peach, Gator, Citrus, Holiday) and New Years day have 4 good bowl games (Rose, Orange, Sugar, Cotton) during the day with the championship game played that night. The playoffs would take place on campus of the higher seed over the prior two weeks with the other bowls interspersed.
This allows the big bowls to keep their tradition and feel special. They can go back to conference tie-ins without holding the playoff hostage. It makes for 4 awesome days of football in December (first playoff weekend, Semifinal weekend, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day) while still having three weeks of being able to watch a bowl game every night.