just guys being dudes [Patrick Barron]

The Title Of The Game Column Is Also It's Over Because It's Over Comment Count

Brian November 18th, 2019 at 1:32 PM

11/16/2019 – Michigan 44, Michigan State 10 – 8-2, 5-2 Big Ten

This, finally, is what the program that used to proudly proclaim that they brought "60 minutes of unnecessary roughness" with them has been reduced to:

“I think it was a little bit of poor class on their part, poor sportsmanship to come over to our sideline barking how they were,” Michigan State linebacker Tyriq Thompson said. “It comes with the game, with the rivalry. It is what it is. Still, it’s just terrible taste.”

Whining about the Michigan sideline waving to them, and asserting an advantage in "class" immediately after a game in which one of their defensive linemen was ejected for head-hunting Shea Patterson. Last year that same guy tried to injure Michigan players, twice.

This site doesn't go in for "class." Class is a way to complain that you got your ass beat and someone enjoyed doing it to you. As Spencer Hall has asserted, great teams taunt. The least interesting question in football is whether team X ran up the score. I don't want to hear it if the answer is no. Twist the knife.

It's not like Michigan State can work harder to beat Michigan. There's nowhere else to go. So show them where things are at.

[After the JUMP: where it's at]

-----------------------------

This is where things are at: without one of the most unlikely endings in college football history Mark Dantonio would be 1-4 against Jim Harbaugh. The 1 is a four-point win over John O'Korn. The three Ls are all by two scores or, in this case, five. In the most competitive of them MSU gained 94 yards of offense.

Michigan State is headed for a bowl sponsored by a suburb of Chicago if they can beat Maryland and Rutgers. Next year they lose seven starters from their defense, which has already flagged badly as the talent starts to run out. Dantonio is about to be deposed in a lawsuit from Curtis Blackwell. The aftermath of Blackwell being made the fall guy has cratered MSU recruiting, which has zero top-15 players in Michigan and zero top-20 players in Ohio as they trundle towards a recruiting class currently ranked behind Minnesota, Kansas, Georgia Tech, and Iowa State. Cincinnati, Purdue, Indiana, Maryland, and Kentucky have higher-rated commits in MSU's home state than MSU does. Six guys have already hit the eject button and headed for the portal.

Faced with a disastrous offense last year, Dantonio went the Brady Hoke route, firing nobody but rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Faced with clear evidence his quarterback was concussed against Illinois, Dantonio again went the Brady Hoke route, asserting in a press conference that everything was fine and no check was needed to be made only for the school's medical staff to assert he was lying in a statement issued hours after his press conference.

Michigan State's athletic director is a vastly unqualified internal hire who owes his job in part to being Dantonio's buddy. Bill Beekman is not going to fire Dantonio. If Dantonio does decide to pack it in, good luck having that guy convince a coach to sign up for a job in the same division as stable, winning editions of OSU, Michigan, and PSU—especially after MSU's fanbase now expects 10 wins instead of 7.

This is as good as it's going to get for Michigan State in the near future.

-----------------------------

This is the way Mark Dantonio deserves to go out. Punt/Counterpunt summed up the real legacy of his tenure:

That’s how you build a cult of personality. You convince people that applause, criticism, and outright neglect are all signs that things are working. It’s how you can get a Glenn Winston, a Donnie Corley, a Josh King, and Demetric Vance, an Austin Robertson, a Curtis Blackwell, a Delton Williams, a Chris L Rucker, a Demetrius Cooper, an LJ Scott, a Demetrious Cox, a MacGarrett Kings, a Jon Reschke, a Max Bullough, and a Joe Bachie. It’s how you can let Will Gholston play after he practiced some MMA mid-game, let Will Gholston play after he was knocked unconscious, or let Brian Lewerke play after getting knocked half-unconscious, then make three contradictory statements about it.

Anything goes as long as you beat Michigan. Finally, this culture has caught up to Michigan State. Finally, the program that spawned the above paragraph is looking for its fainting couch because it has nothing else to do. It took way too long but, finally, it's over.

Fake tough guys always get exposed. 

AWARDS

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[Bryan Fuller]

Known Friends And Trusted Agents Of The Week

you're the man now, dog

-2535ac8789d1b4991f1c37dee-a502-44d9

#1 Ronnie Bell. Nine catches, 150 yards, a fair number of those made by Bell himself after the catch. 42-yard slot fade was harder than it looked after the DB fell down; body control to catch that and keep his feet was excellent. Also a crucial part of Michigan's success attacking the perimeter as he absolutely leveled MSU DBs every time his blocking became relevant. On a per-involvement basis probably grades out higher than…

#2 Shea Patterson. But not by much. Patterson had a fair number of throws that weren't great and had his numbers boosted by a lot of screens and easy RPS YAC… and also put up 11.6 YPA. Also had a couple of successful runs.

#3 Lavert Hill. Doesn't get the credit he deserves most of the time because he's not on the screen. Hill's line: 1 assisted tackle, 1 PBU, one INT. He now has as many PBUs as unassisted tackles on the season. This is the first time he's broken out of HM territory. Is this because he stepped out of bounds after the INT so he could flex on Cody White? Maybe! But also he's further down the list below than he should be because of the nature of the position.

Honorable mention: DPJ turned nothing into a TD and almost a second; we'll call the punt return and ensuing fumble even. Nico Collins drew yet another redzone PI and scored a touchdown of his own. Mike Danna had another sack in a strong outing. Carlo Kemp forced the lone ground TFL and added a sack and a half. Josh Uche didn't get the stats but added five pressures per PFF. Khaleke Hudson blocked a punt and legally annihilated an MSU WR.

KFaTAotW Standings

NOTE: New scoring! HM: 1 point. #3: 3 points. #2: 5 points. #1: 8 points. Split winners awarded points at the sole discretion of a pygmy marmoset named Luke.

18: Josh Uche (#3 MTSU, #3 Army, T2 Rutgers, #2 Illinois, HM ND, T1 Maryland, HM MSU)
17: Aidan Hutchinson(#1 Army, HM Rutgers, T1 Iowa, HM Illinois, HM ND, T1 Maryland)
15: Shea Patterson(HM MTSU, #1 Rutgers. HM PSU, #2 MSU)
14: Whole Dang OL(#2 PSU, #1 ND, HM Maryland).
13: Zach Charbonnet (#2 MTSU, #2 Army, HM PSU, HM ND, HM Maryland), Nico Collins (HM Rutgers, HM Iowa, #1 PSU, #3 Maryland HM MSU)
12: Cam McGrone(HM Rutgers, T3 Iowa, HM Illinois, #3 PSU, #2 ND), Jordan Glasgow (HM MTSU, T3 Iowa, #1 Illinois, HM Maryland), Ronnie Bell (HM Army, T3 Rutgers, HM Illinois, #1 MSU)
10:  Ambry Thomas (#1 MTSU, HM Rutgers, HM Illinois), Kwity Paye (T2 Rutgers, T1 Iowa, HM PSU, T1 Maryland)
9: Khaleke Hudson (#2 Iowa, HM Illinois, HM ND, HM Maryland, HM MSU)
7: Josh Metellus (HM Army, HM Iowa, #2 Maryland), Hassan Haskins (#3 Illinois, #3 ND, HM Maryland)
6: Lavert Hill (HM Army, HM Iowa, HM ND, #3 MSU)
3: DPJ (T3 Rutgers, HM MSU), Mike Danna (T1 Maryland, HM MSU)
2: Dax Hill(HM Rutgers, HM Iowa), Tru Wilson (HM ND, HM Maryland), Will Hart (HM MTSU, HM Maryland), Carlo Kemp(HM MSU)
1:  Josh Ross (HM, MTSU), Sean McKeon (HM, MTSU),Brad Hawkins (HM Army), Christian Turner (HM Rutgers), Nick Eubanks (HM Illinois), Brad Hawkins (HM ND), Giles Jackson (HM Maryland), Michael Barrett (HM Maryland).

Who's Got It Better Than Us(?) Of The Week

Michigan induces a false start, blocks a punt, and immediately hits Nico Collins to go up 34-10 and effectively end the game.

 

Honorable mention: Cornelius Johnson provides the exclamation point; Lewerke flutters two INTs into Michigan CBs' arms; DPJ scores a touchdown out of a bunch of nothing; Paul Bunyan wears pants.

X4OROG3KOKTIFUY4YU4SNSLDIY_thumb_thu[2]MARCUS HALL EPIC DOUBLE BIRD OF THE WEEK.

Lewerke nails an RPO that puts MSU on the one-inch line; MSU scores on the next play and for a queasy second doubt plagues your mind.

Honorable mention: Michigan's second drive ends with a blatant uncalled PI; Jacub Panasuik cheapshots Patterson; Jim Harbaugh's post-game press conference is not a vicious wrestling promo aimed at Mark Dantonio in an attempt to goad him into staying.

OFFENSE

It turns out they were indeed close. Jim Harbaugh after Penn State:

"I feel like we're very close offensively and very close to hitting our stride, hitting on all cylinders," he said. "Really good evidence to back that up and also what I see."

This was widely derided. Since they've put up 45, 38, and 44 against ND, Maryland, and MSU. I did not specifically deride this quote but I did roll my eyes at it, so here's the mea culpa: I pulled the trigger on BPONE too fast this year and particularly with Patterson and Gattis.

Hit 'em where they ain't. I can't tell you how many times this hasn't happened. Michigan has gone into a lot of games in which it seems like the right approach is to gesture vaguely at the run game and rely on passing. Outside of the occasional Ohio State game, when the gloves are always off, I'm not sure there's been another outing where they've followed through so emphatically.

I'll get exact numbers later in the week but some box-score approximates follow. Delete 10 Tru Wilson carries, almost all of which happened after the game was decided, and the goal-to-go-inside-the-five carries that Haskins had from the wildcat. If you disregard those Michigan had 16 rushes and 37 dropbacks* as they shredded the #11 SP+ defense. A defense that had been shredded by Ohio State and Wisconsin previously, yes, but now we get to talk about the Michigan offense in the same sentence as those two offenses.

Importantly for the future of the offense, this felt like Josh Gattis's thing much more than the Notre Dame game. The ND game was a lot of stuff that we'd seen last year with the occasional Speed In Space cameo. This was about 90% the latter, starting from the opening snap when they attempted to go deep, got sacked, and kept on throwing. MSU's defense dares you do to this; Michigan did it.

*[some of those happened in Tru Wilson time but also there were some short yardage carries, etc. I'll get the full picture in UFR]

The easiest example of the above. Michigan hit Ronnie Bell on ~3 RPO hitches where he was the innermost receiver on the trips side. When the linebacker level ran at the line of scrimmage there was no one within five yards of Bell on those catches, so he got to ramble upfield for first downs.

Earlier in the year I'd complained that Michigan was running the same RPO slant that was all the rage three years go and that opponents had learned to defend that fairly well. This was the opposite, a dead-easy throw that was going to be a successful play.

Also in this bin were Michigan's various flare screens, which both gained chunks of yards and moved MSU's eyes. Immediately after one of these flare screens Michigan got an eight yard run in part because one of the MSU LBs was looking at the edge of the field until the RB crossed the line of scrimmage. This is likely to be an RPS beatdown.

And introducing: wide receiver blocking. Michigan's WRs were called into a ton of blocking action because of the edge stuff. In addition to the obvious flare screens Michigan ran a speed option on which the pitch was made, got Giles Jackson two edge carries, and had a flat route to McKeon that was also a screen, with the WRs blocking downfield.

Bell and Collins stood out; Collins would get a stalk-block on his DB about 10 yards downfield and that guy went backwards and never got off his block. (I should mention here that I've been told that the bubble against PSU where Collins ran a slant was not a Collins issue—that was the playcall.) Bell executed about five cut blocks where he tossed his waist into the body of MSU DBs and ended them. One DB was able to get up and make a tackle on Jackson; the other guys stayed down and Michigan got chunks.

One of these Bell blocks got flagged for reasons that are mysterious on first viewing, because it looked identical to the other cut blocks. I know the cut block section of the rulebook is riddled with subclauses and it's possible Bell may have violated one of the many and arcane rules therein. I'm at a loss as to which one it was.

While we're on Bell. As I said above, that slot fade catch was fairly impressive:

49076764602_b4f1e91fe6_k (1)

[Barron]

It could have been worse. Patterson's first half was a little wobbly, which resulted in a couple of throws where he took guys off their feet when they were about to run for 30 yards after the catch. The seam throw to McKeon was similar, although it's a lot more understandable to take a guy off their feet when it's 30 yards downfield. The slant to Black in the endzone was also well behind him.

Otherwise Patterson was excellent. Michigan got stuck in third and 14 early, called a route combo on which MSU had everything covered, and then Patterson slid out of the pocket to give Ronnie Bell time to get to a pocket of space on the sideline. He was able to break the pocket and make a few other plays happen, and his errors were limited to marginal balls. There weren't a lot of uncatchable ones, and there weren't any big errors except the sack immediately before the long field goal were he tripped.

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Literally didn't lay a finger on him [Fuller]

Even the bad stuff worked. Patterson checked it down to Peoples-Jones at the line of scrimmage twice. Neither of these plays were screens; they were just checkdowns on which DPJ got unblocked defenders almost immediately. He was a few inches away from turning those two opportunities into 60 yards and two touchdowns. Instead he had to settle for just the one.

This was oddly reminiscent of DPJ's punt return style, which is to look like he's not really doing much and then just outrun people without changing direction. Turns out he's fast.

Hello again Tarik Black. In the event Michigan loses Collins and DPJ to the NFL a lot is going to be on Tarik Black's plate next year, so it was nice to see him sky for a deep ball like he did very early in his career. He hasn't made a lot of downfield contested catches since.

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[Fuller]

Haskins-cat: approve. After a wildcat run last week when Patterson motioned out of the backfield Michigan went with a straight-up wildcat this week with Haskins and Mason in the backfield. This scored from the two in two plays the first time out; the second time Haskins got stopped at the LOS but momentarily broke a tackle and was then ruled down at the five. Patterson came in and Eubanks scored on the next play.

I don't mind wildcat snaps in short yardage situations, especially near the goal line. Telling the opposition you're running when they already expect you to run isn't much of a negative compared to buying back a blocker.

Vastardis a contender? When Ruiz went out for the back half of a drive, walk-on Andrew Vastardis came in. Vastardis has been the second-string center since Stueber's injury flipped Hongiford out to tackle and Spanellis moved to guard, so I imagine Michigan just wanted the guy who'd been snapping for the last three months to spot Ruiz. I wonder if that would still be the case if Ruiz was out for more than a few snaps.

Vastardis did have a low snap to Haskins but other than that he looked fine. Nice to have another option for next year, when at least three starting spots on the OL will be up for grabs.

DEFENSE

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[Barron]

Early thing, adjustment, over. Michigan met substandard opposition and whooped it, so there's not as much to say. This happens a lot.

The most interesting subplot of the day was the existence of an MSU Fall Camp Drive, albeit delivered in a different way. Usually these are obvious because they're end-arounds with a lead blocker and whatnot, but here the early success MSU had from their bunch sets was more of a football coach thing not immediately apparent to the layman. James Light:

MSU was able to work Michigan's expected coverages for a couple of third down conversions; they got the RPO not-quite-TD, and then as soon as Light noticed what was going on so did Don Brown and MSU's offense went in a hole.

Four! Four. Four. Elijah Collins's long run: four yards. Four! Michigan doesn't have the DTs to grab a bunch of TFLs even against a shaky OL but at no point did MSU have a successful run from Collins.

They did have a couple from Lewerke. I was surprised live that MSU wasn't running him more but after the dust cleared he did have 10 non-sack carries that went for a total of 30 yards. So that didn't work either.

MOVE. Michigan's MOVE call started off the satisfying false start/blocked punt/Collins touchdown sequence. Michigan DTs suddenly shifted right and an MSU guard came out of his stance. Couldn't hear Brown bellowing MOVE on the tape this time, unfortunately.

Still trying mesh. I missed Michigan's first sack of the afternoon because I was watching the coverage. MSU ran mesh, I momentarily thought "oh no," and then I saw Brad Hawkins sliding down to cover what was probably Lewerke's first or second read. He held the ball and ate a sack. That is strange. You'd think that if any opponent would be current on Michigan's vulnerability, or lack thereof, to crossing routes it would be MSU.

SPECIAL TEAMS

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lunch [Barron]

Only Marquise Walker can argue. Khaleke Hudson is probably the best punt-block specialist Michigan has ever had. This is related to his pass rush ability, where he's able to redirect and keep a lot of his momentum. On the one he returned to sender he zipped around the punt protector like he was not there.

I wonder if Michigan's punt block ability will continue after he's gone. It will at least in part—Michigan has had a couple other guys block punts over the last few years. But if Hudson is uniquely well suited to taking out spread punts there will be a step back.

Field goals. They were made, all by Quinn Nordin. I suggest they keep making them.

Uh… there was a punt. One punt. Against MSU.

Mild kickoff adventures. Jackson failed to field one kickoff that didn't get very far, had one return to about the 35, and almost touched the kick out of bounds. David theorized that the sun may have played a factor on the first. Meanwhile Michigan put all of theirs in the endzone except one pop-up the upback fielded. I prefer to get touchbacks whenever you can because against a poor opponent they're just extra bits of variance without a lot of upside.

MISCELLANOUS

Is this the ghost of a koala that was axe-murdered? You be the judge.

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[Barron]

Yes, go for it on the plus 40. We're not really talking about this. Not much else in game theory territory except I wasn't a big fan of Michigan's approach after they got down to the red zone just before the half. Going run-run to burn clock probably wasn't worth the decrease in expected points given the state of the MSU offense, and MSU promptly demonstrated why Michigan's gameplan was to avoid running up the middle.

Targeting roulette is also over. Probably? After years in which I feel utterly at sea whenever a targeting penalty is assessed or reviewed, I finally think I have a handle on it, and so do the people applying the rule. Did you strike someone with the crown of your helmet? You're gone. Did you hit a defenseless player (ie, a QB or WR immediately after a catch) in the head? You're gone. Otherwise… eh, probably all right.

I think it finally seems like targeting is usually going to be called right. Khaleke Hudson annihilated a WR over the middle; everyone braced for a flag; none came out, and that was correct. Kwity Paye was under threat after a borderline PF, and the replay booth correctly found that he'd hit the shoulder only. I've seen targeting called when guys put the crown into an opponent and targeting waved off when they put their facemask on the opponent.

Things aren't perfect. That Army targeting call when Turner got knocked off his feet and a second guy got ejected was pretty bad, but at least that felt like a rule applied in a situation it shouldn't be instead of something totally random. It still feels like CFB has finally arrived at a spot where most of the targeting calls are predictable and correct. Not all, but most.

Personal foul roulette, however. This game has turned into one of college football's most consistent ref shows. There's some justification for that, but a brief survey of the personal fouls shows a poor strike rate:

  • MSU gets flagged for a late hit on DPJ; the hit comes before Peoples-Jones is actually out of bounds.
  • Aidan Hutchinson is flagged for mutual shoving.
  • Luke Campbell is flagged for something that happens off screen and does not get a replay, because the replay is used for a taunting call on Cody White. White does loom over Hudson in a confrontational fashion and this one is probably correct.
  • Tarik Black gets flagged for a flex after his catch down the sidelines. This was ridiculous but did result in a spectacular reaction gif.
  • MSU gets a PF for shoving Hudson in the bench area.
  • Panasuik #1 gets a no-doubter and is ejected.
  • Panasuik #2 gets flagged after his helmet comes off; he argues with the referee about a penalty for a while and then gets flagged for saying something to the referee.

The hit rate on non-obvious calls there is pretty bad.

HERE

Best and Worst:

Best: Hudson Hawk

Khaleke Hudson had an underwhelming junior year, in some part due to shifts in duties that required him to play more like a traditional linebacker (e.g. trying to hold up against Wisconsin's ground game or trying to cover WRs) and less like his natural Viper position. He wasn't bad or anything, but after a record-setting sophomore campaign 2018 was a step back.

But in one of the more pleasant surprises of the season for the defense, Hudson has largely returned to his previous destructive self, even if the counting stats aren't quite there. Yes, he's still not great when asked to be your classic linebacker and can get a bit lost in coverage, but as a guy who can attack from the edge and keep runs tamped down, he's been great. And his blocked punt in this game (the 5th of his career), effectively ended the competitive part of the game for MSU; the doors sorta blew off when Michigan scored on the subsequent play. His presence will be missed next season, even if there are a number of viable options to fill the gap.

ELSEWHERE

Tom Van Haaren:

ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- Michigan safety Josh Metellus was waving goodbye to Michigan State players after the Wolverines' 44-10 victory over the Spartans on Saturday. Metellus and his teammates took exception to the chippiness during the game and thought it was time for the Spartans to leave.

"I was telling them to go home," Metellus said. "It was time for them to leave and they didn't deserve to be in our stadium. I was trying to wave them goodbye because some of them wanted to stay on the field and it was our time to shine. We came out with the 'W' so we were just telling them to go home."

Baumgardner:

“Josh Gattis and the offensive staff really had this game plan wired,” Harbaugh said afterward. “They’d predicted what some of the adjustments were going to be in this game.

“And just about every one of them was right.”

All of this against Dantonio, who spent the better part of eight years giving Michigan absolute fits with his ability to call defense, turn under-recruited players into standouts and get everything to work exactly right against the Wolverines. Five years ago, Michigan limped out of East Lansing after Dantonio punched in an extra rushing touchdown, payback for the Wolverines shoving a tent stake into the Spartan Stadium grass. On that night, Oct. 25, 2014, MSU owned this rivalry. In every area.

That’s over.

This wasn’t John L. Smith bad. This was worse. Michigan State hasn’t taken a beating like this against Michigan since 2002, Bobby Williams’ last act in the rivalry. The game where MSU’s soon-to-be fired coach was asked whether he’d lost his team, and replied: “I don’t know.”

Orion Sang:

Shea Patterson said something that was startlingly accurate after Michigan football's 44-10 win over Michigan State on Saturday afternoon.

"Usually it’s kind of the other way around," he said. "Usually the defense is the one to thank and everything."

Ronnie Bell has everything but a touchdown. Maize and Blue Nation. MGoFish. Sap's Decals. Hoover Street Rag. Touch the Banner.

Comments

TrueBlue2003

November 18th, 2019 at 7:53 PM ^

Pretty sure David Shaw was his full-time OC at Stanford and he had full time OCs at SF.

Seems like he was only involved with previous staffs because he didn't really have a guy capable of being a full time coordinator.  Drevno and Warriner are more OL/run-game guys and Fisch was more of a pass game coordinator.  Pep had been a full time OC and I think largely was given that responsibility last year and after being very bad at the run game, had to get help from Warriner and Harbaugh.

lhglrkwg

November 18th, 2019 at 6:18 PM ^

I wonder what we'll hear about this season's offense eventually. My guess is that since it was initially all new (inside zone running?) and some other stuff, that Harbaugh really did try to let Gattis have 100% control at the beginning. When it was going off the rails a bit, I think they re-calibrated, added the old run game back / made Gattis OC / OC-in-training / OC co-op, and came out the other side with a nice blend of Harbaugh/Warinner run game and Gattis' speed in space. Hopefully Gattis has learned a lot and we roll from here

harmon40

November 18th, 2019 at 2:28 PM ^

If Tyriq Thompson has a problem with getting waved off the field he can reference the 2011 game in EL.

MSU players gathered on both sides of the tunnel to wave UM players off the field, each of them holding up four fingers to indicate they'd beaten us for the 4th consecutive time.

I'm pretty sure Khaleke wouldn't know about something that happened after a game 8 years ago, but for those of us who do remember it is honey-sweet to see UM players returning the favor, even all these years later.

Sopwith

November 18th, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^

I came hoping for a salty game column, and I got it :)

Brian— Minor correction: Harbaugh’s “hitting our stride” comment came in the post-Iowa presser, not Penn State. Post PSU, it would’ve been much more believable because they actually showed it in the second half.

mgobaran

November 18th, 2019 at 4:04 PM ^

Harbaugh's comments at the half of the PSU game are what stand out to me. Something along the lines of "will be our finest hour". 

We came up short, but first the first time in the Harbaugh era we seemed to hit back when the chips were down. Could be a true turning point, like the Maverick Morgan game in basketball a few years back. Hopefully in 2 years we can look back on that game fondly. Can't quite win the B1G title, but chance here to finish the season as one of the best in the country. 

readyourguard

November 18th, 2019 at 2:31 PM ^

Sparty is back where the majority of college football fans remember them--irrelevant.   Let those shitbirds wallow in the mess Dantonio created and EVERYBODY in East Lansing embraced because Mark made some witty post-game remarks following State's 6th straight loss in 2007.

It's over now, Mark.  Your pride came before your fall - and now it's right there on your doorstep, like a flaming bag of dogshit.  

Suck on it.

 

Bronco648

November 18th, 2019 at 2:35 PM ^

Michigan State is headed for a bowl sponsored by a suburb of Chicago if they can beat Maryland and Rutgers.

Ouch! LOL As a resident of Elk Grove, I have no interest in seeing Sparty in the Makers Wanted Bahamas Bowl. We just landed the first (of I hope many) companies that are setting up shop because of that ad campaign (Love's Truck Stops). I have no interest in seeing MSU invited to that game. No one will want to watch Sour Mork and his group of goons.

@Brian: you should be careful, IIRC, you have relatives that live not far from Elk Grove....

A State Fan

November 18th, 2019 at 2:41 PM ^

Ah, this feels right. You know, I'd accepted Saturday was going to be a murder. I turned it off at halftime, got some Christmas shopping done, felt a little bad my prediction of 34-10 was off the board too early. 

I was at MSU from fall 2007-spring 2011. Mark Dantonio is basically the only coach I've ever followed at MSU. I was feeling this deep sense of despair, then Brian had to go and make a word for word remake of the 2007 article, and I'm right back in! We'll see you mother f'ers in East Lansing next year with new HC Urban Meyer or Bob Stoops!

https://mgoblog.blogspot.com/2007/11/spartans-your-profession-is-loser.html

(I reserve the right to hop back into the despair if we keep Dantonio after this season)

A State Fan

November 18th, 2019 at 3:21 PM ^

I think a common MGo theme is that MSU won't be very good next year. At 1 point in this game, MSU was playing 3 true freshman OL, 2 true freshman WRs, a rFr RB and TE, and the ENTIRE OL that started the year was out injured. How can you evaluate that? You don't know what a healthy MSU looks like next year (it'll also probably be bad). But we went from 110ish in Offensive SP+ last year to ~85th this year with that joke OL, and everyone is young and coming back (probably).

Am I worried about a defense being worse next year? Well we gave up 44 to Michigan, 38 to Wisconsin, 37 to Illinois, 34 to OSU, 31 to Indiana, so no I'm not that worried it'll be worse. 11th SP+ defense in name only

MGoBlue96

November 18th, 2019 at 3:27 PM ^

I don't really think MSU lands any of those guys either. They are all in line to get far better jobs than MSU, most likely if not after this year, within the next couple of years. There is a chance that Mork retires under the condition that he gets to name his successor. He would either pick Mike Tressel or Pat Narduzzi. Honestly those are the most likely even if he has no input, because MSU is just not a very desirable job. Trying to recruit at a place that has historically struggled to recruit on a national level, is scandal ridden currently and in a division with OSU,PSU and UM now all relatively stable and in a good place. I don't think expecting to get a hot name coach is realistic. 

A State Fan

November 18th, 2019 at 3:15 PM ^

As I said in the FFFF posts, Jim Harbaugh isn't the one who beat MSU in these games:

Indiana, BYU, Northwestern, Maryland, Illinois (2016)
Northwestern (2017)
Arizona State, Northwestern, Nebraska, Oregon (2018)
Arizona State, Illinois (2019)

Those are all loses that have nothing to do with Jim Harbaugh, and are why I think Dantonio shouldn't be the coach next year.

bluepalooza

November 18th, 2019 at 4:00 PM ^

Yes, Jim Harbaugh beat you indirectly by losing out on recruits like Vert Hill that you likely would have had when Blackwell was still with you.  Harbaugh coming to Michigan totally changed the recruiting in the state of Michigan. In fact, I don't think State has one of the top 15 recruits this year in the state of Michigan.  If Michigan was floundering MSU would be getting some of the best in-state talent. 

Leaders And Best

November 18th, 2019 at 4:47 PM ^

I get that. But discounting the role that the dysfunction and instability at Michigan played in the success Dantonio had will be interesting to follow. Most Michigan fans and observers believe it played a big role. Most MSU fans brush it aside as no big deal. I guess we are about to find out if Dantonio retires. Having success against your rival, especially a historic in-state one like Michigan, indirectly affects those losses you mentioned because it affects the trajectory of the program and your recruiting.

Lloyd Carr's retirement marked the end of around 40 years of Schembechler era of owning the state of Michigan and the rivalry. During that time, MSU employed arguably the greatest coach in college football history, and even Saban couldn't overtake Michigan. Maybe Saban could have pulled it off if he stayed longer than 5 years, but the landscape for MSU is even more perilous now in the Big Ten East than it was in the 1990s for Nick Saban.

LabattsBleu

November 18th, 2019 at 2:44 PM ^

to be fair, the comment of being close came after the 10-3 rock fight against Iowa.

After PSU, i think a lot of folks were convinced that things were indeed trending up, but after the Iowa game, the comment was derided because no one outside of practices saw anything that looked like a functional offense.

I am happy they have turned the corner however and are really looking like an offense that attacks a team's weakness...instead of following the game plan regardless of how the opposition might have changed things on game day

MGoBlue96

November 18th, 2019 at 2:47 PM ^

Honestly, the worst thing about the game might have been when they showed the pregame incident from last year and acted like Michigan was in the wrong. Then again Gus Johnson also snuck in a little brother comment in late so I guess it evens out on that front, lol.

Hail-Storm

November 18th, 2019 at 2:51 PM ^

Give Credit to Dantonio.  After Lewerke "didn't" have a concussion, he took no risks and made his players wear their helmets getting off the bus.  I think he should get some award for this show of safety for his players.

champswest

November 18th, 2019 at 2:55 PM ^

Finally, this culture has caught up to Michigan State. Finally, the program that spawned the above paragraph is looking for its fainting couch because it has nothing else to do. It took way too long but, finally, it's over.

I often wonder if MSU’s problem is that they recruit too many bad apples or if otherwise good or borderline apples go bad once exposed to the bad apple barrel that is MSU culture.

churioz

November 18th, 2019 at 2:56 PM ^

"I pulled the trigger on BPONE too fast this year and particularly with Patterson and Gattis."

This most likely results from not being able to view practice time.  You only get 1/6 of the information from watching the games.

RJWolvie

November 18th, 2019 at 3:00 PM ^

Hat tip to Vastardis, coming in at CENTER like that with almost no, virtually imperceptible dropoff. Rock solid work there! Was still a tense time in game and losing a center...yikes! Watching the game there live, we could see every snap was lower than Ruiz's, Patterson or Haskins had to go down for it every time, most notably Haskins that once Brian mentioned, but it was close enough, well within tolerance, and a huge relief that he was so steady filling in at such a critical position at that time.

jmblue

November 18th, 2019 at 3:38 PM ^

Faced with a disastrous offense last year, Dantonio went the Brady Hoke route, firing nobody but rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic

To be fair, Hoke brought in Nuss after 2013.  It backfired, but it was something.  

NYCBlue

November 18th, 2019 at 3:38 PM ^

One thing that really struck me watching live on that Split Zone Bluff play was how quickly Shea got the ball out.  Earlier this season I think he would have hung onto that so long that, at best, it would have been a very short gain.  

WolverineHistorian

November 18th, 2019 at 3:44 PM ^

There seems to be a new tradition with Paul Bunyan.  For 50-something years, it was only paraded around the field after an MSU win, kind of like a Super Bowl trophy.  When Michigan won, they NEVER got Paul out on the field.  It was always presented in the lockeroom celebration whether at the big house or at the shit-hole.  This was always in stark contrast to the little brown jug which always got presented on the field.  

I guess it really took the program going in the crapper under RichRod and Hoke along with Dantonio being such a dick and having success that would have sounded unheard of a decade ago to really make this trophy extremely important now.  I've never seen a picture or a sound bite with Bo or Moeller mentioning Paul Bunyan.  The only thing Lloyd ever said about the trophy is that it's ugly as sin.  

I really hope the world is going to be back on its axis in regards to this rivalry and that no young Michigan fanatic will ever again think what was shown this past decade was ever considered normal. Before 2009, it took MSU 42 years to finally beat Michigan in back-to back seasons.  MSU was the underdog every year from 1968 - 2005.  MSU was referred to as little brother long before Mike Hart.  And that's how things SHOULD be. 

saveferris

November 19th, 2019 at 7:41 AM ^

I would also point out that before Mike Hart, the majority of derogatory comments publicly made regarding this rivalry came from the MSU side of the fence.  This narrative that MSU likes to cultivate that Michigan has long derided them is an absolute fantasy.  It was Darryl Rogers who referred to Michigan as "arrogant asses" in the press after winning in 1978.  It was George Perles who snidely remarked about the "tougher team winning" in 1990.

Michigan State loved the Mike Hart comment because it gave credence to their narrative for the first time and license to go ahead and be as boorish as they wanted; but doing a search on Michigan slights against MSU before 2007 will come up pretty empty.

004

November 18th, 2019 at 4:15 PM ^

Sparty is back to being the Gimp. For a brief moment they escaped but now they are locked up in the basement again with Rutgers as they should be. 

imafreak1

November 18th, 2019 at 4:22 PM ^

The offense changed radically around the PSU game. I doubt anyone would have been complaining if that was the offense Michigan started the season with. Well, this is Michigan so people would have been complaining regardless but you get my point.

The offense didn't get figured out by the players executing Gattis' stuff better. It got figured out by Gattis adding back in the stuff that had worked last year. Gattis got better more than the players. The offense Gattis arrived with did not work well. Just look at the Army game. Just listen to Urban Meyer. He is very clear that this is the Gattis spread with pro-style elements subsequently added in.

It is rare, and very much to Gattis' credit, that coaches will switch things up so radically and to such good effect in the middle of the season. So rare, that I think fans can be given a pass for being worried.

MGoGrendel

November 18th, 2019 at 4:58 PM ^

I didn't click through the links in the Punt/Counter Punt post, but clicked a few here today.

What a bunch of dirt bags.

Not surprising at all that they would want to "tear his ACL" or "give him a concussion", in which "they" being the fan base that expects this sort of thing from the players.  Like cheered on by the head coach.

Magnum P.I.

November 18th, 2019 at 5:14 PM ^

I would love to sit down for an honest conversation with one of our offensive coaches and try to understand why they don't throw 75% of the time every game. You look at all of our frustrating offensive performances over the past ten (30? 100?) years, and it almost always comes down to ineffectively running it up the middle. Especially against Michigan State during their run of dominance over us. The answer seems so simple to me. 

TrueBlue2003

November 18th, 2019 at 7:19 PM ^

They did that (throw 75% of the time) against Wisconsin and 1) it didn't work and 2) was a very bad idea given Wisconsin's interior line.

It would be stupid to not take opponent into account.  They should have run all over Wisconsin, and they smartly did against Notre Dame.  They smartly threw against PSU and MSU.  They should have thrown against Army.  Still baffling that they ran so much against Army and threw so much against Wisconsin.  Good that they seem to now actually, you know, understand the opponent when putting together the game plan.

Bodogblog

November 18th, 2019 at 5:28 PM ^

Harbaugh said Michigan was close to hitting its stride after Iowa, a desultory 10-3 win that was panned nationally awful offensive football.  That's why he was panned and ridiculed. 

And that's why he should be praised in retrospect - he said it in one of the worst moments because he believed it was true.  Wouldn't have been nearly as impressive after a great second half showing by the offense (two weeks later) in a white-out in Happy Valley. 

TrueBlue2003

November 18th, 2019 at 6:14 PM ^

Re: the Patterson comments.

It's true that the offense didn't have to thank the defense but it's not like the defense had to thank the offense, either.  Both sides played great, just like the ND game.

I've been keeping a mental running tally of the last time the Michigan offense bailed out the defense after a sub-par defensive performance.

It's been since 2015 when Jake Rudock willed Michigan to victory against Indiana that the offense won a game despite a poor defensive performance.

Since that time, I count at least five instances of the Michigan defense "bailing out" a poor offensive performance:

2019 Iowa (W 10-3 with no points scored in the last three quarters!)

2019 Army (W 24-21 in OT)

2018 Northwestern (W 20-17)

2016 Wisconsin (W 14-7)

2016 Indiana (W 20-10)

OPTIONAL: One could argue the defense pretty much single-handedly won Michigan the MSU game last year that ended 21-7.

There have also been a painful number of losses in which the Michigan defense played well (and in some cases extremely well) only for the offense to fail to even play decently.  2015 Utah, 2016 Iowa, 2016 OSU, 2017 Wisconsin, 2018 ND. 

In two weeks, I think we're going to need the offense to finally win a game for the defense.  Let's do it.