mood [Patrick Barron]

Signgate The Fifth: The Say Anything Stage Comment Count

Brian October 30th, 2023 at 1:30 PM

Petering out. Over the weekend, nothing much happened. We were already starting to get articles that contain no new NCAA-relevant information and don't stand up to even a cursory fact-check—see Friday's post on claims that TCU's brilliant scheme duped Michigan—and now, uh:

Multiple sources from one Big Ten school told SI that a coach at a different school called them before playing Michigan to warn them about Wolverines ball boys on their sideline listening to play calls and communicating information to the Michigan sideline—holding the football up in one hand to indicate an expected pass, and in the other hand to indicate a run, for instance. (Sources at the school that was warned said they experienced nothing in the game to implicate the Michigan ball boys.)

We're now at the stage where people will say crazy shit to anyone, and that person will just publish it. Sometimes it's without bothering to check the plausibility of such a thing (Dellenger), and sometimes you'll even get a denial and still say "let's do it and be legends," as above. As far as Dellenger goes, his latest is about OSU asking the CFP whether they can scout the other game and getting a "yes," which doesn't do anything but indicate where this is coming from.

Meanwhile, the ball boy claims are part of a Pat Forde article in which he exhorts people to do things they're not allowed to do by NCAA rule…

Harbaugh is almost certain to try to no-comment his way through the press conference Monday, citing the NCAA’s confidentiality dictates during an ongoing investigation. That’s fine. But it seems appropriate for athletic director Warde Manuel—or even president Santa Ono—to step to the lectern Monday and address this.

…and proposes that Michigan self-administer a punishment as a "rogue" program with a smarmy "Any interest in leading here, Michigan?" Yes, I have interest in leading this column into the garbage. The future is now, old man.

[After THE JUMP: the Harbaugh show cause threat]

The non-event. The one thing that tried to happen over the weekend was a Wall Street Journal article claiming that Jim Harbaugh's contract offer had been "rescinded," which is language that should immediately perk your ears up. It is true that Michigan had a contract offer on the table for Harbaugh, and almost certainly true that Jim Harbaugh cannot sign that contract at this instant. Characterizing that as "rescinded" is the way you might put it if you were a bitter old man with an axe to grind and some access to insider information. Plenty of those around  these days; some of them are even on the infractions committee.

If you were more even-handed you might characterize such an event as an "obviously mandatory delay," or some such. Webb/Bacon:

FWIW, this leak was characterized to us as "absolute bullshit."

Speaking of… not often you can put "dunked on by a regent" on the ol' poaster resume, so kudos to this guy:

The strong impression we have gotten is that there is a 0% chance the University of Michigan self-imposes anything before the end of the 2023 season—they have not even gotten a notice of allegations or their 90-day window to respond—and would immediately head to the courts if any other entity attempted such a stunt.

Provenance. There's no question where this comes from: OSU insider Bill Greene was making dark allusions to it a month before it ever came out. Exactly how things came about and who was involved is an interesting question, because if there's one thing hiring a private investigator invites it's more private investigators. It is a reported fact that there's a firm running this; the main remaining question is how personally involved folks in the OSU program were.

Sam put up a post yesterday that collected the circumstantial evidence against OSU and then provided another couple potential connections before getting into the fact that Christopher Day is a PI in New Hampshire, where Ryan is from. This immediately started a game of paywall telephone that I tried to defuse:

Unfortunately, OSU is much better at this than Michigan and is unlikely to have written Ryan Day's brother a big check with "Sign stealing! Go berks!" in the memo. There is not going to be the big reveal here; it'll remain speculation without proof. And even if there was a big reveal, the die is cast in re: NCAA.

It doesn't really matter who, except insofar as it proves Day is shook.

The big question. The NCAA changed their rules this offseason to make it harder for head coaches to dodge responsibility when their underlings break rules. The text of the change:

NCAA Bylaw 11.1.1, “Head Coach Responsibility,” imposes a presumption of head coach accountability for impermissible acts committed by assistant coaches and administrators within their program.

Saying "I didn't know" is no longer good enough, and the punishment is now mitigatable but draconian:

If there is a Level I or II violation(s) in a sport program, the enforcement staff will charge a head coach responsibility violation at the same level as the underlying violation(s).

Connor Stalions is getting a billion-year show cause and without mitigation the NCAA can just slap that same penalty on Harbaugh. How do you mitigate?

…head coaches must rely upon a three-prong strategy: A demonstration that the coach adequately monitored the activities of employees under their supervision, actively engaged in rules education activities with employees under their supervision, and actively communicated compliance concerns and reported information that could constitute a NCAA compliance issue.

There are a bunch of individual bullet points that can be taken in a coach's favor ("Actively soliciting feedback to determine if compliance systems are functioning properly," etc.) that both links in this section list. The NCAA released a guideline about how they're going to enforce this rule:

First, enforcement will consider factors related to the coaches’ education, monitoring, and communication efforts in deciding whether an 11.1.1 violation exists, and the severity of the violation.

Second, the head coach will have the opportunity to present information to the Committee on Infractions panel demonstrating that the coach satisfied these three areas of obligations.

Finally, the Committee on Infractions Hearing Panel will consider NCAA enforcement’s allegation and the coach’s rebuttal in making its determination as to whether Bylaw 11.1.1 was violated and what the appropriate classification of the penalty should be.

Takeaway: Head coaches will need to commit significant time to not only engaging in the three areas of presumption rebuttal, but also documenting and filing those efforts. It is strongly encouraged that all Division I Head Coaches begin to coordinate the creation of a filing system documenting their efforts, if they have not already.

The bold is mine. That does not sound like an area of strength for an athletic department that's announcing Shemy Shembechler's hire before anyone did a cursory search for racist social media likes. Nor does it sound like something Jim Harbaugh is proactively going to do himself. It's the NCAA, where the rules are made up and don't matter, but in past cases that has leaned towards letting Kansas and Tennessee off. Whatever personal vendettas Jim Harbaugh has racked up in the last decade could be coming due, especially since he's coming off a three-game suspension for what looks like blowing off an NCAA investigation into some secondary violations.

This is new ground for the NCAA; Harbaugh will be the first head coach subject to this rule for a newsworthy scandal-type substance. I would not be surprised if they bomb him, personally, and leave the rest of the program more or less intact. That would take at least a year or two to process, but if Harbaugh gets any NFL offer with that hanging over his head he's going to take it.

About that. I'm not buying this:

The NFL is unlikely to make itself a safe harbor for Harbaugh to escape what could be substantial NCAA discipline, league sources say, raising the strong possibility Harbaugh would need to serve some or all of any possible suspension he could face in college if he returns to the pros.

There isn't a bylaw governing the matter. But sources pointed to former Ohio State head coach Jim Tressel as precedent for how the NFL and its teams could handle a college suspension of Harbaugh.

Jim Tressel didn't take a moribund 49ers team to three straight NFC championships. I have heard that all this has made him less attractive to the NFL because it's a reminder of all the Harbaugh Shit you have to put up with when you hire Harbaugh, but the Bears loom as the kind of franchise that's desperate enough to ignore all that.

On campus. There were various confused reports about the NCAA being on campus and meeting with unknown persons. FWIW, we believe they were on campus and met with Santa Ono primarily. (This section is speculative, no insider info present.)

How egregious can it be? Brian Kelly on the whole thing:

"…this isn't the first time we've heard of sign stealing," he said, "whether there is proposed sign stealing or people were buying tickets to other games. This is all part of why this should not even be part of the equation."

Kelly said the tangible effect of stealing signals is debatable. In 32 years of coaching, he said, he has never believed they lost a game because of it.

"I've never come back to the office and go, they got us," he added.

If this is such a tremendous advantage why would the NCAA go thirty years without implementing a quick fix? Why would football coaches—the most paranoid group of professionals anywhere on this earth—not go to un-hackable wristbands? The claims that this is the WORST SCANDAL EVER simply do not align with the behavior of anyone in the sport for the last three decades.

Etc.: Timothy, you gotta chill out about this. "Harbaugh had to know what Stalions had seen in Oxford. The world had to know."

Comments

GeraldFord48

October 30th, 2023 at 3:03 PM ^

Exactly. You are eliminating any sort of enforcement coming from the NCAA and instead having it come from the schools utilizing PIs and other resources. Every school airs out all the other schools' dirty laundry. Wealthier schools have more ability to investigate than the less wealthy. Then we see how just about every school does something outside of the lines. I don't know what college football looks like after that.

It's like calling holding on every play. Yes, it's there. But if you call it correctly, you don't have a game.

BoFan

October 30th, 2023 at 2:27 PM ^

I have heard that all this has made him less attractive to the NFL because it's a reminder of all the Harbaugh Shit you have to put up with when you hire Harbaugh,

The only people who have to put up with Harbaugh shit are the fools that think they are smarter about football.  Because, Harbaugh doesn’t suffer fools like Jed York and Balke. He was fine at Stanford because there are no fools there. 

ff11

October 30th, 2023 at 2:34 PM ^

So I’ll start by saying there’s a whole lot of assumption to this scenario but the only thing I’ve seen regarding the rule in question is: “Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited.”

ASUMING Stalions did buy tickets for others to go to opponent games but neither he, nor any other member of the athletic staff personally attended those games, is this even a violation of the rules? The spirit, maybe, but the rule itself seems less than clear.

FreddieMercuryHayes

October 30th, 2023 at 2:37 PM ^

I think the question is the difference between recording and scouting.  The NCAA allows for recording by third parties as long as you don't incur more than a nominal cost for the service.  And provided they don't provide scouting in their service.  The bylaws treat recording and scouting differently in other parts of the rule book.  

chunkums

October 30th, 2023 at 2:46 PM ^

There is a really interesting thread on Bucknuts of all places arguing that we didn't violate any scouting rules with our scheme. Click to read more:

 

Once again, no rules were broken. This is coming from a buckeye. Only difference is. He is one of the few smarter ones left. 1/3 pic.twitter.com/VJghGgaqtc

— MichiganNation2 (@MichiganNation2) October 30, 2023

njvictor

October 30th, 2023 at 2:40 PM ^

It honestly feels like the more stupid shit that comes out and the longer the media tries milking this, the more this looks like a nothing burger in the court of public opinion

Blinkin

October 30th, 2023 at 3:57 PM ^

The fire burned white hot initially because everyone blithely repeated all the "worse than Houston and New England combined!!!!" talking points that the definitely-not-OSU source  initially leaked.  But the fuel has been consumed quickly, even with what appears to be a deliberate effort to drag it out.  

Swayze Howell Sheen

October 30th, 2023 at 2:47 PM ^

how in the world did you find Touchdown Timothy? But DONT CLICK ON IT. So many ALLCAPS my eyes still hurt !!!!!!! (and exclamation points)

But goodness, the other blogspot article is tremendous.

(scroll down to the Michigan fan fiction pieces about our dear friend CS)

All Pure Columbian Gold.

As an appetizer, here's the last one:

Day of the Jackal 2: Different Day, Different Jackal by Anonymous

Ryan Day laughed.

Operation Cheeseburger failed to turn public support against the Enemy, but this would achieve that aim. Deep Punt had come through with the needed intel. Now he just needed to get to the drop site undetected and RonEnglishFanJS09 would finish the mission.

He knew that Stallions had cracked his publicly exposed signaling network like the Allies had deciphered the Enigma Machine. That must be the only reason they experienced setbacks; not their inability to block Aidan Hutchinson. Now he would rectify this.

Day knew that when Mike Leach’s network was compromised, he arranged an elaborate ruse to exploit his enemy’s assumed faulty intel. But the rogue pirate’s tradecraft was flawed. Don’t plant false information to use against the opposition. Complain to the teacher instead!

He reached the spot. Glancing around nonchalantly, Day reached into the back of his pants and pulled out the laminated A0 play-card and finished the dead drop. “Who is born on third base now?” he muttered as he walked into the cold night.

The Sea Was Angry

October 30th, 2023 at 2:48 PM ^

I haven't read all of the comments above mine, so sorry if this repeats anyone's earlier sentiments. However, after clicking on the "You gotta chill out" link at the end, I immediately felt compelled to suggest everyone avoid it like the plague. I feel incredibly dumber having read it; how that guy gets anyone to read his stuff is likely the same reason people like Pat Forde still work for SI.

meeashagin

October 30th, 2023 at 2:49 PM ^

As a fan base I want everyone to keep in mind that once Michigan gets back on the field and starts to steam roll their way through Penn State and OSU it will change the perception of a lot of things as it relates to this entire situation.

So what I'm saying is stay positive best you can until we see how the last 4 games play out.

Don

October 30th, 2023 at 2:57 PM ^

I would not be surprised if they bomb him, personally

And all because of a stupid rule that the NCAA itself considered rescinding just two years ago because the NCAA itself recognized that the alleged advantage of in-person scouting was minimal. I bet the NCAA quietly rescinds it within 2 or 3 years from now.

Unfortunately, there's nothing in U-M's institutional history to suggest it will do anything other than drop its pants and invite the NCAA to apply the paddle, with Warde saying "Thank you, may I have another?" 

rc15

October 30th, 2023 at 2:58 PM ^

I know it's the NCAA and legalities don't matter... but I think Michigan lawyers would have a field day with the NCAA trying to enforce a rule put in place this past offseason to hold a head coach responsible for acts that are (at least mostly, allegedly) prior to that rule being in place.

bo_lives

October 30th, 2023 at 3:25 PM ^

Whenever anyone says "the NCAA isn't a court of law" I die a little inside. I know it's fashionable in today's society to be nihilistic and all, but c'mon now, we gotta at least have *some* shred of confidence in our society if we're going to live in it. The reason our law courts work the way they do is because some time long ago people agreed that things like "due process" and "innocent until proven guilty" were objectively good standards to uphold. The NCAA is not the Central Committee of the Communist Party and they cannot just due whatever they want without repercussions. Other schools like KU and Tennessee realize this. Us fans need to ensure that Warde realizes it too.

berto714

October 31st, 2023 at 8:33 AM ^

I'm not sure we know that the acts are mostly before the rule, but it really doesn't matter because there are violations after the rule was put in place. If they can show that Harbaugh didn't implement any kind of compliance program before or after the rule went into effect that is probably enough for the NCAA. 

matty blue

October 30th, 2023 at 3:06 PM ^

yikes, i got into a twitter hubbub with "touchdown timmy" a few weeks ago over whether "clemson-miami week" was a thing that existed outside coral gables.  spoiler:  it's not a thing.  they're not rivals except in the sense that they've played each other a few times, never when they've both been really good.  they're rivals the way michigan and nebraska are rivals.  "michigan-nebraska week" isn't a thing.

but i digress.  i ended up blocking him because he's a doofus miami (ytm) choade.  i'm honestly bummed that i'm encountering him again. 

bo_lives

October 30th, 2023 at 3:09 PM ^

I can understand Brian’s more pessimistic take today, but seeing as this thing is already losing steam in today’s ADHD news cycle, I think there’s reason to be optimistic. I have no faith in Warde Manual doing the right thing, but I have a tiny bit of faith in him doing the profitable thing, and the profitable thing is to ensure Harbaugh sticks around. We fans need to be contacting Ono and Warde 24/7 to demonstrate that we will absolutely lose our shit and cost them serious $$$ if they throw Harbaugh under the bus. 

DetroitDan

October 30th, 2023 at 3:11 PM ^

If I were Jim Harbaugh, I would stay at Michigan and not go to the NFL. He's got a top tier program at Michigan and it's likely to stay that way.  The NCAA investigations are a nuisance, but he will easily survive these without much effort.  On the other hand, there is no guarantee of success in the NFL.  In fact, it highly unlikely that a coach in the NFL to have the kind of success that a top tier college team will experience.  Jim Harbaugh is almost 60 years old.  He will enjoy his success at Michigan for the rest of his career.  The irritations of NCAA investigations are a small price to pay.  

M-Dog

October 30th, 2023 at 4:01 PM ^

His Super Bowl loss eats at him.  He has said over and over that he wants another shot at it. 

On the recent video about him introducing the new Family Wall at Michigan, he talked about himself and his brother in the Super Bowl and how he should be happy for his brother, but he still struggles with that.  That was only a couple of weeks ago.

This is a man that wants another shot at the NFL.  Especially if he has already proven himself in college football with a National Championship win.  

SalvatoreQuattro

October 30th, 2023 at 5:22 PM ^

He struggles with losing a Super Bowl title.

His father won a NCAA title and his brother won a Super Bowl title. Going to the Bears in a division with the rapidly improving Lions and a conference with the Eagles, Niners, etc..and a GM in Poles whose track record isn’t exactly overwhelming….🤨.

Now the Chargers I could see. Ready made team.

 

berto714

October 31st, 2023 at 8:36 AM ^

Would you say this even if Harbaugh gets a show cause? I'm not so sure he "easily" gets out of this and Brian doesn't seem to be either. 

To be honest I kind of thought this season was a last hurrah for Harbaugh, many of the top players are leaving after this year and the schedule gets much harder.  I thought even before the sign stealing stuff that if we win the National Championship this year he'd leave, and now it seems even more likely.

He wants to win a Super Bowl. And he already had the kind of success in the NFL you're talking about, he did practically everything short of winning a Super Bowl.

rym

October 30th, 2023 at 3:11 PM ^

Lawyer here. In legal terms, you can only "rescind" a completed, finalized contract that all sides have agreed to. For written contracts, this occurs when the contract is signed. After that point, a party believing themselves to have grounds to rescind can either unilaterally announce the rescission (which invites a lawsuit because the other side may see it as a breach) or file a lawsuit seeking to adjudicate the rescission claim.

If there's an outstanding contractual offer available that the offeree may accept, the party who made the offer can take it off the table by replacing it with a new offer or withdrawing it without a replacement. But this is not usually a meaningful legal event, since proposed terms routinely change during negotiations — the coach rejects one offer and makes a counteroffer; the school rejects the counteroffer and makes a new offer; and so on.

The Blue Collar

October 30th, 2023 at 3:25 PM ^

After "the spot" in 2016, most of my buddies I watched CFB with stopped watching. Now I primarily watch alone. 

If this nonsense leads to sanctions or suspensions against Michigan or anyone on Michigan's staff, I'm done with college football, too. 

If the B1G and NCAA don't want Michigan fans (the ones who supply a huge plurality of their funding, I might add) around, then I'm happy to oblige.

M-Dog

October 30th, 2023 at 3:29 PM ^

“We didn’t have a policy,” CFP executive director Bill Hancock told Yahoo Sports on Friday, “and we operated without one until the question was raised.”

The CFP - where college football is played at its highest and most important level - didn't think that advance scouting was meaningful enough to even have a policy about it.

Gavia immer_MI

October 30th, 2023 at 3:29 PM ^

I'm interested in knowing why there are so many journalists out there willing to risk integrity to smear Michigan, which seems to be a common talking point on this board right now. With the reach of this university, surely there has to be a few journalists who graduated from UM and are willing to lay out this story as we currently know it to be true, but has been done well on this message board. I'd like to hear why we don't see those pieces. Maybe they take longer to write because the story needs to unfold further?

Dean Pelton

October 30th, 2023 at 3:37 PM ^

I will never understand why Michigan refuses to use all resources available and fight back! If Harbaugh is hit with a show cause or a huge suspension I am done supporting Michigan. 

Adamantium

October 30th, 2023 at 3:44 PM ^

I'd like to hear a bit more about Harbaugh and staff no-showing Santa and the NCAA this weekend. I do think Harbaugh's decisionmaking there is antagonistic and is likely to raise the temperature even more, however justified it is to flip the NCAA the bird.

goblu330

October 30th, 2023 at 4:41 PM ^

There is so much conflicting information on that meeting right now that I wouldn’t believe anything about it.  But if Santa Ono and Warde Manuel informed Harbaugh that the NCAA was coming to campus and wanted to meet with he and his staff and Harbaugh “no-showed” the meeting I don’t think he would still be employed right now.  That didn’t happen.

KodiakGT

October 30th, 2023 at 3:59 PM ^

If the NCAA tries to impose anything other than 1 L3 per game/incident and then a few L2s as an escalation of that due to the volume, UM should sue the **** out of them.

Anything higher is completely counter to the context of the rule as it was developed and their own COI's assertion of how serious of a violation/problem it is.

slimj091

October 30th, 2023 at 4:01 PM ^

I mean hell.. We have no shortage of people on this board alone trying exhort Warde, the
athletic department, and Harbaugh to do what they are not allowed to do by NCAA rules. Every day we have a "Fire Warde unless he calls the NCAA stinky little meanies while blowing them the raspberry!!??" thread filled with the usual "This is what I would do" suspects.

mmjoy

October 30th, 2023 at 4:22 PM ^

That Touchdown Timothy blog is literally unbearable. I scanned it for a minute and it hurt my eyes with all the stupid all caps and hurt my brain with how annoying he is. Wow.

cheesheadwolverine

October 30th, 2023 at 4:41 PM ^

If nothing more comes out (i.e., the practice tape rumors aren’t true), the idea of Harbaugh getting a show cause because a junior staffer violated an in-person scouting rule set up to save small schools a few thousand bucks is absolutely preposterous.  That’s not to rule it out, because the NCAA is preposterous.

Castroviejo

October 30th, 2023 at 4:44 PM ^

Has anybody further explored the two Buckeye staffers who suggested they basically do the same thing, and then erased their Venmo account?  Is this real?  If so, why is that not being talked about?  I forgot their names, and there is so much verbosity (understandably) about this, I can’t remember which thread I saw it in.

Brooklyn_Wolverine

October 30th, 2023 at 4:53 PM ^

Is any journalism being done?

I have some questions that I have not seen asked or answered in all the media coverage of this which seem like pretty standard journalistic fare. 

For the NCAA:

  1. Is it typically that a "3rd Party" brings a complaint about a specific team?
  2. Is there any expectation that someone bringing a complaint needs to have some sort of standing or is anyone allowed to bring a complaint? (if so, I have a few theories I'd like to run by you all)
  3. What is the process for the NCAA to vet a 3rd party bringing a complaint?
  4. Has anyone ever been issued a violation for any aspect of this sign stealing rule in any sport?

For the "3rd Party"

  1. Who are you and how did you get my number?
  2. Who is paying you?
  3. Do you have Ryan Day's Venmo info?

There seems to be another story here about a coordinated effort to attack one particular team regardless of how the "signgate" bits actually turn out.