Warde: "nothing was found" on Juwan
December 16th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
If Sanderson is wrong, him taking that to HR knowing it could get Juwan fired is not healthy. That’s the first thing I wrote.
December 16th, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^
Exactly this!! Thank you Rob for your lucid comment.
December 16th, 2023 at 5:44 PM ^
Seems like Sanderson blew up. He just assumed Jace was in the wrong missing a session. Didn’t back off when Juwan told him to let him handle it.
Now, people say Juwover because they are waiting for the shoe to drop. Michigan basketball has not been going in the right direction. Very little momentum and poor development. Lack of killer instinct & winners to take home Ws in close games. My recommendation is to focus on fixing transfer & NIL and if the development isn’t there by the tournament you move on from Juwan.
No future coach can succeed with these headwinds.
December 15th, 2023 at 11:18 PM ^
OR this was actually a minor incident that was blown way out of proportion by people on the board who have want to move on from Juwan for performance reasons, and did not actually support a finding of discipline to anyone involved.
December 16th, 2023 at 2:41 AM ^
Minor incident usually don’t end up being sorted out with official HR complaints.
December 16th, 2023 at 6:05 AM ^
Minor incidence? I got hauled into HR and grilled for several interviews because I used a South Park reference. It was the “don’t be gay, Sparky.”
A contractor, not full time employee filed a complaint against me. I told HR “are you kidding me?” She replied, “yes, this is serious”. I told her to buy me out then or see you in court”. Nothing happened. They told me not to use the term “gay” again or i will be written up.
The contract guy quit soon after. I got teased for years for having a sexual harassment complaint from a 200# dude. I had to buy lunch for a year for the group
so yes, a rather simple issue (reference to pop culture) It was serious. It was not even directed at him.
December 16th, 2023 at 9:12 AM ^
You know (learned) nothing, Jon Snow.
December 16th, 2023 at 7:26 AM ^
And you know this how?
December 16th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
If it was a minor incident blown way out of proportion, then Sanderson is the one who did that by going to HR. That’s my scenario #1.
December 16th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
So Franz is the most negative guy in the history of anonymous sports chatter, consistently down on the squad, through thick and thin. And now the lynch-lemmings are lining up with him. Oh, well.
December 15th, 2023 at 7:25 PM ^
Of course. As a lot of us uninterested in joining the lynch mob predicted. Good luck going forward to Juwan and the squad.
December 15th, 2023 at 7:29 PM ^
If Juwan Howard was any other employee he would have been fired.
December 15th, 2023 at 7:37 PM ^
No, it’s fact. I work at UM. Instant termination for workplace violence.
December 15th, 2023 at 7:41 PM ^
There was no violence here though
December 15th, 2023 at 7:49 PM ^
In 2022 there was.
They can fire you for loud outbursts of anger too.
Howard has displayed a pattern of behavior that under current guidelines would get anyone else fired long ago.
Any future UM employee who gets into trouble for this can now point to Howard as a very public example of UM have two different standards of conduct for employees. Lawsuit time!
December 15th, 2023 at 8:12 PM ^
My understanding was that it was a mutual conflict and Sanderson engaged in loud outbursts of anger too. Please correct me if I'm wrong. But if I'm not, shouldn't you also be advocating for his firing?
December 15th, 2023 at 8:20 PM ^
Yes. Both should be gone.
But Howard should have been gone in 2022 which people keeping ignoring. The guy went Woody Hayes on an opposing coach and people on here are ignoring it as if it wasn’t a major problem that he kept his job.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:33 PM ^
lol Howard absolutely did not go Woody Hayes on anybody. He aggressively reached for the collar of a chrome-dome asshat who charged his players when the ruckus was subsiding and managed to catch him on the side of the head.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:47 PM ^
Lol. He assaulted someone. That is what Hayes did. Lol.
Trying to minimize that is…wow.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:54 PM ^
Assault... for a slap... sheesh...
December 15th, 2023 at 9:12 PM ^
Wait, you don’t think a slap is assault?
December 16th, 2023 at 6:32 AM ^
It's actually assault when throwing and battery if landed.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:25 PM ^
Oh FFS, Mr. tough guy. You'd press charges in a second if anyone walked up to you or anyone in your family and slapped them.
December 16th, 2023 at 8:41 AM ^
First of all, nobody is walking up to anybody and slapping them without reason. That's just ridiculous.
Second, no I'm not pressing charges for a slap. I'm not putting permanent charges on someone's record for something that might not even leave a bruise. I'm grabbing the person by the neck and asking them a few questions, namely, what the fuck is wrong with them and why did they do that?
Every little thing doesn't need to become a court case. Some things can be settled between individuals, whether that be amicably or not.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:36 PM ^
He slapped the guy. He should have been fired. Everyone knows this. Keep telling yourself whatever you have to. The guy has an anger problem. He should not be the leader of young men for our basketball program.
December 15th, 2023 at 10:50 PM ^
Nonsense. He made a closed fist swing at an opposing coach..he had to redirect around another guys head which made it look like an opened hand slap. Immediately following the swing he returns his hand to a fist. If this were tom izzo the entire board would be calling him an unhinged lunatic. The normalization of a grown man taking a swing at another man in their work place would be laughable if it wasnt so pathetic.
December 15th, 2023 at 10:59 PM ^
You're a LIAR!
December 15th, 2023 at 8:59 PM ^
You should test this out on Monday to see what HR does. Go full Juwan on some fool in your department.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:06 PM ^
I take it you’re not an employment lawyer.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:12 PM ^
Good luck proving anything in court.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:40 PM ^
So you are pissed that he wasn't fired in 2022. Reasonable opinion, full stop.
From what anyone here knows, there is nothing about the current situation that changes that one way or another. You don't get to pile this one on. The only statement from anyone that knows anything is Warde's.
December 16th, 2023 at 6:10 AM ^
What is wrong with society these days? Are people that soft, they cry when someone yells at them?
This is not Woody punching a Clemson player on National TV. This is two adult men in a private setting arguing over the Coach’s son.
If we keep this up, our Military will be soft and that would be disastrous.
December 16th, 2023 at 7:57 AM ^
But to suggest that the rules for general U of M employees are the same for members of the athletic department is a little disengenuous.Hockey players take swings at other hockey players all the time without being immediately expelled from the university, for example. Pretty much every football play would be considered an "assault" in other contexts.
Obviously Juwan is a coach, not a player, and I'm not saying the rules for players involved in the games are the same as for their coaches, but context matters, and the blanket assertion that Juwan's not being fired somehow creates a real legal problem for the university trying to discipline employees not in the athletic department seems a stretch, to me.
December 16th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
I have no idea why you’re being downvoted. You’re correct. Juwan is getting extremely favorable treatment based on his conduct. Brian and Seth basically said on the MGoRoundTable that they’d be shocked if we was kept around so it isn’t exactly a minority opinion
December 15th, 2023 at 7:42 PM ^
I appreciate your frustration. I also wonder if you may have forgotten or simply do not understand how the real world often works. Fairness has little to do with reality.
December 15th, 2023 at 7:50 PM ^
I wonder if you understand what discrimination lawsuit means? Because Michigan has set themselves up for one if another UM employee is fired for doing what Howard has done.
There is video proof of Howard’s acts too. This act by Warde is insanely dumb and potentially costly for the university.
People begging me for stating facts. Warde is ignoring university policy here. All the negs in the world don’t change the fact that Howard is receiving preferential treatment here.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:09 PM ^
I'm not a lawyer, but I know a university who likely has a few on retainer. I also don't feel like battling with you. I tried to empathize, but your anger is clearly more powerful. Congratulations, I guess?
Oh, and thank you for the neg.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:12 PM ^
They can have all the attorneys they want. They will still lose in court and in the public arena because we damn well know that any attorney worth their salt will go to the press. That is the last thing Michigan wants.
December 15th, 2023 at 11:01 PM ^
Why don't YOU go to the press!!! Like the UFO free press!!! Please.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:08 PM ^
sal, you are a champ but this might not be the hill to die on. first, there is a really critical presupposition about coaching things like football and basketball (and wrestling and hockey and maybe a few others) and that is that those sports are very rough and tumble and that yelling, physical contact are pretty common (this is not an endorsement, only recognition thereof). that is radically different than janice/johnny the assistant to the provosts who works in a very nice and tame office environment.
second, the chances of a 'discrimination' suit based on if they let howard stay are so remote as to be a non-consideration. to use my example above, heaven forbid that the provost roughs up or yells at janice/johnny, the provost won't be able to get any mileage out of him getting canned and not juwan because juwan was....black? in real life it just doesn't work that way or so infrequently as to be a nothing-burger.
i get that howard might be ripe for termination, regardless of what warde says, but the differences in actual occupation even with the same employer mean something, and the worry about some other employee using that as evidence in a suit is not.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:29 PM ^
So did Harbaugh, and I am not upset about it. If RichRod had two active NCAA investigations, you think he would still be here?
December 16th, 2023 at 7:46 AM ^
You’re not stating facts. Nothing says someone shall be terminated for anything you have argued. HR also does not report to the AD. Please stop with the mis information on here.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:26 PM ^
You need violence for workplace violence.
Right now, you got workplace...so at least you're 50% correct.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:49 PM ^
He hit a coach in 2022. The policy also allows for dismissal over workplace aggression which this certainly fits. He also has had several other incidents of workplace aggression.
December 15th, 2023 at 10:39 PM ^
He did not hit him. That didn't happen. He was open handed, grabbing at him, not hitting anyone.
December 16th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
Oh, I think he wacked him. And I'm Juwan's staunchest defender. And that was enough for the lynch-lemmings to crowd to the aft side of the pool deck on the HMS Bountiful every time he muttered under his breath for ever more. While half of the other coaches in the B1G teed off on the regular, while coaches did all kinds of awful shit, the guy who lost it over an assistant coach threatening his players is the place were the nattering nabobs of morality decide that the line should be drawn. You don't have to be a weather man.
December 16th, 2023 at 10:12 PM ^
We've never found out what Krabbenhoft actually said that caused the security guard to flinch and enraged Howard, did we?
December 15th, 2023 at 10:05 PM ^
Incorrect.
Per OSHA, Workplace violence is any act or threat of physical violence, harassment, intimidation, or other threatening disruptive behavior that occurs at the work site
Getting in someone's face, yelling and shaking fists is threatening and disruptive behavior. It's doesn't have the reach the level of assault (which is a mental injury the apprehension of imminent harm combined with the present ability for that harm to occur) or battery (actual harmful contact).
The Department Of Labor lists several workplace violence examples that don't meet a traditional image of violence.
Basically, if you create an apprehension that harm could occur to anyone, you've met the standard for workplace violence because it is traumatic. It has serious morale and productivity consequences to not just directly affected persons, but all bystanders too.
I don't know if this altercation meets the definition, but full stop if you are doing things like slamming fists on tables while yelling or shaking a fist in someone's face, you are commiting workplace violence. The reason is because any reasonable person receiving or witnessing that behavior would feel some apprehension of harm, which is injurious even if less than the legal tort of assault.
December 16th, 2023 at 7:39 AM ^
Such a dopey take … never see a coach yell at players during a game? Guess Harbaugh is assaulting JJ in your mind when he slams his pads right? Should a UM player be expelled if getting a personal foul penalty or targeting? You exhibit zero sense in making these arguments in the context of athletic competition.