Warde: "nothing was found" on Juwan
December 15th, 2023 at 8:14 PM ^
He hit somebody two years ago. You keep ignoring that for reasons known only to you.
You have the moral scruples of a Stalinist.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:18 PM ^
It was two years ago. If you want him fired for that...then he should've been fired then...and if you still feel that way, then make it about that.
But you can't use this as grounds for him being fired when you're angry about an incident from two years ago.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:26 PM ^
Yes, I can. It shows a pattern of behavior. If this was a one-off incident I wouldn’t be calling for his and Warde’s head. But it isn’t. He has a pattern of workplace violence/aggression that for anyone else would lead to termination.
That’s blatant discrimination.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:33 PM ^
Except he didn't violate anything this time...sooo, WTF are you crying about?
If he gets a tech in a month for yelling at a ref, you going to use that as well?
That's aggression in the workplace.
You keeping that same energy for Harbaugh? He's had a pattern of yelling at refs in his coaching history.
See how stupid this gets? You're intentionally trying to rabbit hole this thing when you clearly just don't like the guy.
If he's found breaking a university policy or his zero tolerance performance plan...by all means, go off. But if this is your example of violating either, try harder.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:37 PM ^
“Didn’t violate anything this time” Yet Sanderson filed a HR report?🤔
He violated university policy when he hit Wisky coach on camera. Instant termination. I don’t recall Harbaugh hitting a coach or even yelling at one on the sideline while at Michigan.
You defend him because reasons.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:47 PM ^
You're an employee at Michigan, right?
I can file an HR report on you right now if I wanted. It doesn't make anything true, but I can do it.
Is that grounds for you to be fired? Because someone filed an HR report on you?
No. You're reaching.
And don't bring up the Wisconsin incident, no one is arguing that...you specifically said, "Yet Sanderson filed a HR report."
December 15th, 2023 at 8:55 PM ^
If he filed a HR report that indicates a level of severity that considering Howard’s history begs for a dismissal. He has documented pattern of misconduct that would have seen almost any other employee fired.
It’s grossly unfair that a millionaire gets to keep his job when people living paycheck to paycheck who did the same thing would lose theirs without a moment of hesitation from the university.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:21 PM ^
If he filed a[n] HR report that indicates [he is trying to make it impossible for Howard to have the power to punish him.]
FIFY.
December 15th, 2023 at 11:09 PM ^
Get help! A millionaire? You should be,"FIRED" for discriminatory statements. I hope someone sees this and he sues your stupid )&& for libel.
December 16th, 2023 at 7:26 AM ^
"Except he didn't violate anything this time."
Yelling at a co-worker is a termination level violation of policy at U if M.
December 15th, 2023 at 10:09 PM ^
Did you happen to write any letters to the University between 1991-1993 in reference to the Fab Five? I’m asking for a friend.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:30 PM ^
Don't stop him now, he's on a moralistic tear where he bemoans how nobody but him behaves themselves properly any more.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:41 PM ^
Holding people to same standards is now a “moralistic tear”. Okay, Everybody Murders Guy.
The fact is that Howard is being held to a different standard than even Woody Hayes was at OSU.
Gary Moeller gets fired for getting drunk in public. Juwan Howard slaps a guy and threatens violence and he keeps his job.
Okay.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:45 PM ^
You're completely unhinged and embarrassing yourself.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:57 PM ^
You are completely amoral and an embarrassment to your family. You are found lacking in moral and ethical constancy. You probably don’t even have a moral or ethical base.
That’s sad.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:23 PM ^
Talking to alums and fans like that while invoking your employment status at the U, you better hope none of the people who have whatever email address you registered with drop an email to your boss. The good news is you'd have standing to file your risible discrimination lawsuit.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:49 PM ^
Don't make or imply threats on here. EVER.
December 17th, 2023 at 4:25 AM ^
(1) It wasn't a threat.
(2) I didn't have his email address until he told everybody what it was in his silly doxxing thread.
(3) Go fuck yourself, random person who has no reason to scold me :)
December 15th, 2023 at 10:11 PM ^
I hope your employer is not reading this. You may not be employed.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:45 PM ^
I'm a Titoist. Does that count for anything?
December 15th, 2023 at 9:43 PM ^
Ok Michigan employee.. go root for another team.
December 16th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
This--or several posts sooner--would have been a good place to stop for a cool drink and a deep breath, Salvatore. I think that some of the cautions about bandying your position around might be worth acknowledging.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:20 PM ^
Beilein took over a program that hadn't made the tournament in a decade. Juwan took over the program Beilein created and has so far failed to maintain it. Doesn't mean he can't get back to where he was in year two, but comparing the two situations doesn't make a lot of sense.
Yes, lots of guys to the NBA. That's part of the issue. There appears to be talent here, it just isn't being used to win a lot of games.
We also don't know who is actually at fault. What we do know is that Juwan Howard is the one with the history of very public outbursts - including punching an opposing coach - while Sanderson has been here 15 years without...any incidents to speak of?
You seem hell bent on making it out like most people don't (or didn't prior to the Wisconsin punch) want Juwan Howard to succeed. I can assure you, most people would love for a beloved member of the Fab Five to be a successful coach here.
December 16th, 2023 at 10:36 AM ^
We've heard this ad nauseum for several years here. Do you think anyone who follows M hoops doesn't know it? The point is that Juwan hasn't failed, in any way, shape, manner or form. He has been trying to weather immense changes in the sport--changes that drove John Beilein away from it--and the loss of the scoring and skilled core of three teams in a row, and done well. Now he's going to get a chance to see if he can make it work, whatever anonymous **** here have to say about it. Because--while Warde may or may not be an inspired AD--you don't make decisions based on the opinions of a lynch mob.
And the point about people vilifying Beilein--with some of the same whackdoodles who derided Beilein then making noise about Juwan now--absolutely stands. Anonymous sports fans pump themselves up, often, by calling for people's heads. . .
If this team falls off the map, then next year could be Juwan's last. Let's see how this plays out. I'm hopeful, and wish that people would simply pull for their own damned team. Lot going on here with a former member of the Fab Five. But it's certainly worth remembering that Juwan was a much-loved teammate, the longest-ever NBA career, with ZERO reputation for hot-headedness. Personally, I'm highly sympathetic to a guy who gets charged up when another team's coach is coming after my team's players, but quite obviously here it's an opportunity for people to climb on their moral high horses. The same people who exult over all kinds of garbage in this and other sports.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:24 PM ^
Most of those wins for Juwan came with Beilin players. Beilin took over a Michigan basketball program that was in the lower middle half of the B1G.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:28 PM ^
If you don’t understand the difference between where Beilein started, and where Juwan started, you don’t understand basketball.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:54 PM ^
The point isn't about where they started. If it did it would also matter that this is JHs first head coaching job right? Would that be an excuse for JH? Maybe heart surgery could allow for some grace with the team he's barely coached. The mostly new team. No?
December 15th, 2023 at 10:31 PM ^
Yes, the point is about where they started. JB took over a rebuild, so naturally his first years would be rough. Also, the fact that JB had experience and a track record before Michigan is an argument for having more patience with JB than JH.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:30 PM ^
I wasn't planning to comment, but this post was just too worthy. Juwan inherited a program in very good shape and with good players already on the team. He has went backwards.
Beilein had to build the program up. No comparison between the two. Beilein is a significantly better coach and his teams were way more enjoyable to watch play.
December 15th, 2023 at 8:36 PM ^
More enjoyable to watch?
That has absolutely no impact on whether someone should be the coach.
Tony Bennett and UVA are brutal to watch at times, but they win games...that's the objective.
Also, as a sidenote, who is playing and winning with Beilein's style these days? No sarcasm, folks on here watch way more CBB than me. Is anyone winning with that old Beilein style?
Because I recall the late Beilein years being pick and roll and iso, just like Juwan. That West Virginia swing/motion offense was out before Beilein left.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:21 PM ^
I didn't say it had an impact on whether he should be the coach, you implied that part.
If Beilein was still coaching, yes, I believe they would be a much better team. Quality coaching never goes out of style.
Maybe Juwan can turn it around. He seems like a good guy and will hopefully succeed. He's just not on Beilein's level, nor are most current NCAA coaches.
December 15th, 2023 at 10:03 PM ^
"If Beilein was still around"? I wonder why he isn't? Does anyone recall what happened to former UM basketball coach John Beilein?
December 15th, 2023 at 10:41 PM ^
I don't understand the sarcastic point you're making.
December 16th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
Beilein left because he hated what the game was becoming, didn't want to deal with the portal or with coddling players, their parents, or personalities. I loved him--as a search of my posts from his first days here will show--but he was anything but a players' coach. Former players still talk openly about their conflicts with him. And his defenses were so bad that he was forced to bring in a D coach. Again, people don't have memories, they have Rage-o-meters, and the antipathy toward Juwan--which dates back decades--is highly suspect. At very least, you'd hope thoughtful people would temper theirs and not give aid and comfort to enemies like those at RCMB. But. . .self-awareness? You're usually not going to find a lot of that on an anonymous message board. The lemmings--which sometimes run one way one day and another the next--are definitely running off of one side of the cliff right now.
December 16th, 2023 at 12:10 PM ^
It's really weird that you seem incapable of understanding that Juwan Howard A. is in charge of an underperformed team for the 3rd year in a row and B. Has an incident on his record that in almost any other case would have gotten him fired. You also seem to think he's somehow getting a raw deal and that this goes back...decades? I assure you this isn't the case. The vast majority of people want him to succeed. Also, let's be real: you seem to think he's getting criticism because of a reason you won't quite say so I won't put words in your mouth but come on. As if this board didn't call for Beilein, Hoke, Rich Rod and Harbaughs heads at certain points, none of whom have punching an opposing coach on national TV on their resume.
Reality is, he could turn it around and I hope he does, but he's lucky to still be the coach at Michigan and it's not crazy that people aren't thrilled with his program at the moment.
December 16th, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
Go and watch Phil's pre-game interview on UMHoops. Not paywalled. Cuts through a lot of the bullshit on both sides. You're welcome to be one of the lemmings. But it's pretty clear how the defenders just know and care a little more about basketball and see the game in relative terms while the moralizing Anti-Saloon League types keep harping on the punch. . . and don't even really know/care about what motivated it. In the end, it's maybe worth organizing one's thoughts over on a rainy day before the game, but not too much more. Juwan isn't going anywhere, and the lemmings are going to have to bide their time.
Hopefully for a long time.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:45 PM ^
He has went? Where did you go to grade school?
December 15th, 2023 at 9:20 PM ^
Those wins were with Belein’s players. Haven’t done well since they all left.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:28 PM ^
Beilein took over a steaming pile of shit from Amaker and you're going to point to his overall W-L record as evidence of what, that Howard is a better coach than Beilein?
I think you also sort of noted that people wanted Beilein fired at various points in his career, so you're surprised that people want Howard fired?
Beilein's trajectory in Year 4 was going up, whereas Howard's trajectory is going down. Beilein also had a track record of success before Michigan.
Part of your point also appears to be that people wanted to fire Jay Wright and Dabo Swinney and Harbaugh after 2020 and look at what happened. Sure, and if only we had given Ellerbe and Hoke just two, three, four more years, right?
You're allowed to fire coaches at a certain point for lack of success.
I wouldn't fire Howard yet, but I can't say I'm optimistic right now about where it's all headed. He's got a lot of season left to prove me wrong. We'd all be happy if you're able to come back in March and say "told you so."
December 15th, 2023 at 9:33 PM ^
Dude, Beilein built his team up from crap. Howard walked into a well-running program with a few future All-Americans/NBA players (and I might add one of the best Bball ST coaches in the country) and had gotten worse the longer he's been here. Now, could he still possibly salvage this season with how bad the Big Ten looks this year? Sure. But it's not likely.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:46 PM ^
If it was so great.. why did he leave?
December 15th, 2023 at 9:58 PM ^
Are you asking why Beilein left Michigan? Because he took an NBA job for more money where he wouldn't have to deal with recruiting. It didn't work out too well for him but he did get kind of a payday before his retirement.
December 15th, 2023 at 10:15 PM ^
He didn’t like where college basketball was headed. He was exactly right. JH has to navigate this cesspool that Beilein quick jumped out of. The timing screwed the University as well.
December 15th, 2023 at 10:34 PM ^
Right.
I feel like I'm missing something from this conversation.
KBlow said JB left behind a good program.
You implied JB left behind a bad program. That is how I read your comment, anyway. "If it was so great why did he leave" as though no one would ever leave a good team.
I said he left for what he thought were even greener pastures.
You then agreed with me, which means you knew why he left his good program, making your other comment nonsensical to me now.
December 15th, 2023 at 11:31 PM ^
He might be implying that Beilein didn't feel that, in the new climate, he could maintain it either. He was clearly irked by early departures a probably was concerned that he couldn't build a team in the way he was accustomed (or at least in the manner that made coaching enjoyable to him).
December 15th, 2023 at 11:46 PM ^
I agree. But that is not a commentary on whether or not Howard took over a good situation, which is what he was initially (it seemed) questioning. It's only commentary on that Beilein (probably correctly) concluded that he wasn't going to be able to succeed in college anymore. But he still left behind a good roster with a good reputation. One that Howard, in fact, was able to succeed with immediately.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:47 PM ^
Not HIS employee. What the fuck are you talking about? Sanderson is an employee of the university and was employed by the university before Howard was. You can't seriously be this stupid. RIght? Right?
December 15th, 2023 at 10:20 PM ^
This is why they have heads of departments. The university pays them, but Juwan and any head of a department have the power and can hire and dismiss an employee. Howard did not have to retain Sanderson when he was hired as coach. Every employee that gets fired doesn’t have to be brought before the president and regents.
December 15th, 2023 at 9:51 PM ^
Oh, Mgobules, I can't say how much I appreciate this comment. Reading this site is awesome most of the time but when people here sense blood in the water over firing a coach emotions override logic. JH hasn't performed great and could be fired (in the future) if the program doesn't improve. But performance-wise he deserves more time. It's crazy how Beilein is remembered. Like no one remembers losing to NJIT? How terrible those teams were at defense until he hired a "DC"? How poorly they played early in seasons? How and when he left the program?
Three anger management angle is ridiculously exaggerated. I knew it was getting crazy when supposed Michigan fans are judging a Michigan coach for defending a Michigan player from another coach (wasn't it Greg Gard the AH?)! Getting technicals? Unheard of! Defending his program when being criticized at practice by another coach on your staff who didn't have the class or respect to address it privately? Ridiculous! Sanderson filed a report? Must mean JH is 100% guilty bc that's what filing a report means.
JH needs to adjust like JH and hopefully the campus can support him in getting good players.
December 15th, 2023 at 10:39 PM ^
It'll never sink in. Read its history! It's useless.