rice4114

January 28th, 2024 at 2:18 PM ^

AD- Why has your recruiting been mediocre here recently? How can you be dominating on the field but mid teens in recruiting?

Coaches- We arent getting our first or second choices because there is a baseline set for top end players. There is an expectation that they will bring a lot of value through tv and tickets sales in their next 3 years here. So we settle for 3rd and 4th choices stealing recruits from the likes of Kentucky, BC, Mizzou, etc and coaching them up. Our recruiting stems mostly from the inability to offer a basic package to land at our program. We hit an absolute perfect storm last season with development, character, culture and a few borderline 5 stars in JJ, Edwards, Corum, and Will Johnson. The ball is in your court AD are we going to have a baseline package for the players WE WANT AND SELECT AS OUR TOP CHOICES or are we digging for diamonds in the rough constantly going forward?

rice4114

January 28th, 2024 at 4:04 PM ^

Spot on Jeff. The funny thing is it seems like 50%+ of the fans agree as well. I dont want to go 8-5 and say I told you so. Id much rather fix the problem before we find our program devoid of Will Johnson/JJ type recruits. Will Johnson signed his letter of intent a long time ago. 

Jeff09

January 28th, 2024 at 5:28 PM ^

Agreed, and frankly I don't think we're so far off. If we could even hover between 5-10 most of the time, rather than always struggling to crack the top 10, a very strong S&C program and good positional coaches can easily make up the gap. It's a lot harder and less likely year to year when you're closer to #15 in the country in recruiting

The Oracle 2

January 28th, 2024 at 2:32 PM ^

Striving to be the best you can be is obviously a great goal, but it needs to be accepted that Michigan’s academic standards and geography mean that it will never be competing on a level playing field with other top football schools. You can now add NIL to the reasons why. In the 25 of the 31 seasons between Schemblechler’s last year and 2021, Michigan lost at least three games. In seven of the ten seasons before Harbaugh arrived, they lost at least five games. The football program wasn’t consistently elite for a long time and there were understandable reasons why. As much as we’d like to see it and as great as the last three years have been, it’s probably unrealistic to expect them to remain a consistent top 5 program going forward.

rice4114

January 28th, 2024 at 4:08 PM ^

These efforts will produce those results you speak of. Most of us (some of us) are asking for another level of effort. 

Our academics are a feature not a flaw. $$$ is the only thing keeping us from a Georgia, Bama, OSU talent loaded roster. We arent turning down any of their recruits. Any of them (from an academic standpoint). Their recruits are turning us down. No more back door "oh well it is what it is" from our fan base would be a good first step. Leaders and "it is what it is" just doesnt hit the same way. 

Ghost of Fritz…

January 28th, 2024 at 1:21 PM ^

That is right.  Michigan did it (1) just and NIL era dawned, (2) with a bit of luck on certain players working out, (3) an elite coaching staff.   One and three are changing and in flux.  Two is not a method for consistency.  

I hope Ono sees that Warde Manual is the problem.  He is not adapting well to the shifting landscape, but instead trying hard to make the level of changes that most clings to his idealized version of an era that has ended and will not return.   

PopeLando

January 28th, 2024 at 1:02 PM ^

Some leaders don’t act until there’s literally no other choice. They let things drift and drift and drift until they’re forced into the one SINGLE path remaining to them.

That’s only a good strategy if 1) you think you’ll get fired for proactively doing something, or 2) you’re a character in the Foundation novels.

The Old Guard of college football had DECADES to design an equitable system that paid student athletes for their labor. Instead, they doubled down on their strategy, they resisted change until change was forced upon them. And by losing their lawsuits, they lost the ability to influence the system. Hence the Wild West where we are now.

Organizations change in one of two ways: 1) strong leadership, or 2) crisis.

Looks like Warde is waiting for a crisis before he changes anything. That’s just great. Great strategy Warde. Continue our intensive cutting edge strategy of doing nothing and hoping the 1970s football landscape comes back.

rice4114

January 28th, 2024 at 4:13 PM ^

At 8-5 several fans and Warde will no longer be talking about "who cares about recruiting we are just fine". They will be silent. Unfortunately "I told you so" will do fuck all to fix the situation. My hope is Michigan turns the corner and starts to become a proactive athletic department. 

JJ and Will Johnson were recruited a long time ago.

three_honks

January 28th, 2024 at 5:30 PM ^

Michigan's going to need an influx of talent following the 2024 season.

Will Johnson, Mason Graham, Kenneth Grant, Derrick Moore, Rod Moore, The Don, and Colston Loveland will all (very likely) be leaving.  Unlike themselves, they aren't followed by a class of multiple first round picks.

UMForLife

January 28th, 2024 at 1:07 PM ^

Buy student athletes?? If he would added that we make millions of dollars out of those student athletes and I get a big fat salary out of those student athletes and we should pay them from TV revenue I would have been fine with it. 

Be a leader and lead.

MeanJoe07

January 28th, 2024 at 1:07 PM ^

Gonna be a long time before we win another championship. We have to identify under the radar players and then develop these 3 and 3.5 stars and keep them for all four years while maintaining a perfect culture just to have a chance. The stars have to all align perfectly. Even harder with a coach who doesn't have big name recognition to mitigate some of our deficiencies. They won this year, but the further Michigan falls behind in NIL the harder it will be to align those stars. We don't have to go full Miami, but we can set aside money and make some guarantees for players and incoming recruits. We will not though. Michigan is deeply self-righteous to the core as an institution and Warde is the face of this illusory superiority complex that just being Michigan is enough. The reality is players risk health and limb to provide entertainment. Even recruits bring the fans. Not supporting players monetarily is actually what is amoral. Being a bloated institution run by bloated people like Warde who are fine exploiting college kids so they can have one more mansion is amoral. You think if Michigan goes 7-5 or worse for a few seasons in a row and finish in the middle of the back that people will still come for the block M alone. Maybe some, but I won't. Look at the basketball team. 

PopeLando

January 28th, 2024 at 1:14 PM ^

This is what gets me. People act like there’s no middle ground between “bare minimum NIL” and “let’s buy ourselves a team.”

People also act like it’s some kind of sin for student athletes to want to get paid as much as possible up front.

I like the north star strategy of “transformational, not transactional.” It’s a good starting point. But damn we’re hamstringing ourselves by sitting on the sidelines as other schools learn to game this system.

blueheron

January 28th, 2024 at 1:30 PM ^

"You think if Michigan goes 7-5 or worse for a few seasons in a row and finish in the middle ..."

Get your tinfoil hat out if you have one. :)

You just need to connect the dots. This is the long-term plan of Warde and Jim Stapleton. They want to lower the bar far enough so that Scot Loeffler as head coach (with OC Terry Malone and DC Ron English) will be possible.

- - -

For real, I think the AD will be a portrait of inertia on NIL matters, etc. as long as the stadium is filled and the country club sports are adequately funded.

Amazinblu

January 28th, 2024 at 1:08 PM ^

Personally, I would enjoy seeing Warde make a statement that includes.

“Michigan feels the media agreements afford an opportunity to support student athletes.  I have requested that B1G Commissioner Petitti sponsor a Committee to develop a recommendation / solution to the revenue sharing issue so all B1G student athletes can be recognized for their efforts and contributions to the conference.  It would be a pleasure to serve on this Committee, and should Commissioner Petitti feel appropriate - I would be happy to chair that group.”

dbockle

January 28th, 2024 at 1:11 PM ^

Every indication points to Wards holding up the NIL process with bureaucratic inertia, and possibly out of a desire to make sure that NIL collectives aren’t competing against the athletic department for booster/donor dollars. This seems antiquated and foolish.

I am typically among the last to call for coaches or ADs to be fired. But I can’t help but notice that Warde inherited the best football, basketball, and baseball coaches Michigan has had in our lifetimes and all three left under his watch. It’s like Warde was born on third base but he’s intent on getting thrown out trying to steal home. He is the turd in the swimming pool, and someone needs to fish him out.

dbockle

January 28th, 2024 at 2:45 PM ^

Exactly! Most of us remember when you could get a free football ticket with the purchase of two 20 ounce Cokes in the Student Union. Tickets are a hell of a lot more expensive now, and the Athletic Department is swimming in revenue, because the football team is great. That’s how the AD will make the most money: by having a great football team. Allowing some of that money to flow to NIL is an investment in the AD’s big revenue generator. Incredibly short sighted to think those dollars are lost or wasted if they go to NIL. You’ll quintuple that money on the back end. It just requires a little more forethought and a little less selfishness and gluttony.

42-27

January 28th, 2024 at 1:11 PM ^

I think we should panic and demand Warde and all our administrators and Santa Ono be fired over this.  Clearly we can not win with our current NIL and the culture it helped maintain.  There's just no possible way we could win a national championship, let alone 3 straight B1G Ten championships with our current NIL.  It's not possible.  We are doomed to the failure we've had the past few years unless we panic and change drastically immediately.

We need to scrap everything and change the way we do NIL.  Hopefully, it can change the culture here at Michigan so we can bring in more guys looking for quick paychecks and push out some of the guys who just want to come here to develop and win.  If Warde and Santa won't do it, then we need to demand they, and every single leader at the entire University, be fired.

Blue@LSU

January 28th, 2024 at 1:26 PM ^

Hopefully, it can change the culture here at Michigan so we can bring in more guys looking for quick paychecks and push out some of the guys who just want to come here to develop and win.

The world is not so black and white, my friend.

If you're a DT recruit who loves football and would even really like to play at Michigan, but UTexas or 'Bama comes along and offers you big, life changing money, what would you do? It's not like you won't have a chance to win, be developed, or get drafted out of those schools. 

42-27

January 28th, 2024 at 1:45 PM ^

Yea, if we did as you suggest, we could have paid Walter Nolen $2 million for a year of his services before he hopped on to his next biggest payday.  We never would have had to "settle" for guys like Mason Graham and Kenneth Grant at DT.

Our strategy clearly isn't working with NIL.  Panicking and firing everybody is the proper course of action, according to this board.

Blue@LSU

January 28th, 2024 at 2:01 PM ^

Who are you responding to? It certainly isn't me. I wasn't talking about paying mercenaries. I was talking about players that love football/want to be developed but also can't turn down big $$$ from other really good programs. Do these recruits just not exist in your world? 

Why can't you go after players like Graham/Grant and the ones that love football/want to be developed but are getting $ offers from other really good football programs? 

 

42-27

January 28th, 2024 at 3:21 PM ^

Why can't you go after players like Graham/Grant and the ones that love football/want to be developed

Hint: Graham and Grant ARE the ones that love football/want to be developed.  AND they are making money because of it, instead of being the mercenary type that doesn't come to Michigan.  Pretty simple.

rice4114

January 28th, 2024 at 4:34 PM ^

You dont want Miami and Texas A and Ms top targets. You want your coaches top targets. If your Dline coaches top targets in order went to:

1. Bama

2. Georgia

3. OSU

4. Our diamond in the rough - UM

That is the issue that is going to catch up to you. Every player you love in the NFL is a mercenary. Choose your mercenaries wisely and also find your Mikeys. They arent enemies.

Plenty of room for Graham and Grant which we all knew would be incredible. But also those guys that we love that also have offers from #1,2 and 3. There is room for them all not just diamond in the rough guys. 

rice4114

January 28th, 2024 at 4:26 PM ^

People keep saying this but I dont understand. They think the situation is this:

Recruiting services top 100 ----> offer cash

No that isnt it. The real situation is this:

Coaches find their top targets, vet them, get them on campus, offer them, have a competitive package in place when they sign. That is it, you dont fucking sign from a top 100 list from Rivals you are signing your coaches top targets. If you think we have signed our top targets the last 2 years you are WAAAY of base.

Perkis-Size Me

January 28th, 2024 at 1:12 PM ^

One of the downsides to winning the national title when we did is that it’s only emboldened the powers that be to say “See, we can do this without paying upfront. Sherrone, find a way to get them on campus without paying them a dime. If they’re good enough when they step on the field and perform, then they can have their money.”

With this approach, I’m not really sure I expect recruiting to have the kind of uptick that it should have off of winning a title. Top-100 players who have the option of going wherever they want aren’t going to go somewhere that asks them to bet on themselves, wait for money down the road, when Georgia and OSU will pay them 500k just for signing their letter of intent, and then if they perform on the field they’ll get paid down the road anyway. 

rice4114

January 28th, 2024 at 4:45 PM ^

What have you done in your life to pass up six digits annually? Who the hell are you talking about? Our program made a $100mil surplus. Humans like this dont exist. Pay on a level playing field or University of Chicago yourself out of the picture. You may not like it but 85+ championship level kids arent passing up 6 digits so we can strut around our u of m "better than thou" bullshit. 

Paying on a equal level with high end programs doesnt mean you have to go after Texas a and m and Miami style players. Conversations, visits, interactions with coaches will lead you to quality players and people.

"Fuck that we arent paying a dime" will lead you to a fun club team.