STAEE ‘Rock Bottom’ Schadenfreude — Oh, the irony of buying donuts to numb the pain from MSU’s 49-donut loss

Submitted by The Harbaughnger on October 22nd, 2023 at 2:26 AM

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BlueinLansing

October 22nd, 2023 at 3:01 AM ^

Nah, I was pretty young but rock bottom was losing at home to Northwestern in Muddy Waters last season in 1982.  1-7 MSU vs 2-7 Northwestern and NW had won exactly 1 Big Ten game in something like 3 years. State lost 28-24 a mediocre MSU had beaten NW 61-14 the year before in Evanston.   I'll never forget the scenes afterwards walking down the UFC cage like ramps with people rattling the fencing chanting Fire Muddy.

In my lifetime anyway I never though MSU was worse than then talent wise.  This years team is just not coheasive in any way but they at least have some good football players, if no stars at all.  A mix of Tuck's philosophy and holding on to Dantonio's mind games and theories. It just doesn't stick together well  The portal has kept them afloat  but man they are taking on water fast. 

I think today and this season has shown MSU needs to clean house and rid itself of the past.  Will they?  They never really do, do they.  

 

Forgot to add their solution back then was to hire George Perles away from the Pittsburgh Steelers and implement the Big Ten's most robust steroids program.  5 years later they won the Rose Bowl, after the steroid stuff came out  MSU began a slow decline under Perles and a brief resurrection under Saban, they could never pay him enough and even Saban warned them of their obcession with beating Michigan and playing 2nd fiddle in this state so he bolted.  

Joined: 09/01/2009

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UgLi Eric

October 22nd, 2023 at 3:41 AM ^

Can you write a diary? You seemed to have lived much of this history first hand and I'd love to hear more about these years of MSU decision making, cheating, and even the Dantonino success years. Since it overlaps with steroid use, Saban seeming human, and an eventual U of M decline, I think that perspective would be interesting. I have only heard whispers of the steroid period in the last few years, despite having lived through it. 

Joined: 10/09/2016

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BlueinLansing

October 22nd, 2023 at 11:47 AM ^

Don't know if it would be that interesting.  I sort of see MSU's issues as largely being a lack of strong leadership top down, I mean seriously can you name a good, memorable President or athletic director at MSU since John Hannah?   Hollis was probably their best and I can't get past the fact he was there to help burry Izzo and Dantonio 's bodies and basically directed MSU's media to just simply not report on anything bad about MSU.  He's as much guilty as anyone for creating that toxic place.

You got me thinking about MSU low points in regards to football.  I can think of 5 in my lifetime

1.  Muddy Waters in 82   strange hire to begin with, Muddy from Hillsdale who I think was NAIA at the time.  Great guy, MSU through and through and probably a good choice coming off probation.   Bad recruitor and just not good enough for high level D1.   FYI recruiting back then was different schools still had 125 scholarships so the big boys were loading up stashing taltent and it was slim pickings for everyone else compared to today.  Michigan and OSU ruled the day.  That changed in I think 1980 or 81 when they reduced scholarships, thats how you went from the 10 year war and UM/OSU dominance to Illinois and Iowa going to Pasadena all of the sudden.

 

2.  Probably now, embarrasing coach fired with an embarrassing contract, and getting embarrassed on the field by UM and two more opportunities coming with PSU/OSU  Lets not forget Tuck is going to take them to court and that could reveal some stuff that isn't going to paint a good picture for MSU leadership at all.   While I'm at it remember a former asst. coach accused Dantonio of filming others teams practices that went away in a suspicious way, don't think for a second other Big Ten schools dont' have some goods on MSU.    On the field if they finish 2-10 with another controversy of some kind it might get bumped to number one.  Personally i think they have enough talent to win 1 or 2 more, do they have the will anymore is the question.   

 

3   Bobby Williams -  popular hire for the players after Saban bolted to LSU.  It was always bound to fail, he just wasn't a great coach and at times seemed over his head.  Got waxed by Michigan in his final season and the infamous quote when asked if he'd lost the team after losing to Michigan "I don't know"  It was over at that moment.

 

4.  John L Smith    a poor man's Rich Rod, so many in game coaching screw ups and lordy the press conferences.  Continued the slow decline after Saban's departure and Williams indifference even if they had a couple good seasons early under him.  I still kind of can't believe Michigan almost lost 3 times and probably should have once to that guy.    FYI  off field discipline was an issue then, which Dantonio did not really take care of 

 

5.  Probation of late 70's forget the years.  Recruiting violations trying to keep up with UM/OSU.  MSU came through it ok but it was a black eye and they had difficulty recovering from that which led to Muddy Waters era  it was a long 10 years before MSU was near the top of the Big Ten standings in the late 80's.  

Joined: 09/01/2009

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tybert

October 22nd, 2023 at 1:25 PM ^

Nice summation on MSU's woes.

I was at UM 81-85 (thankfully, was on an engineering internship fall 84 so missed that miserable season).

I was in MMB when we played at Sparty fall 81. Still remember the pre-game march from our busses to the stadium. An MSU woman probably my mom's age at the time dropping F bombs on the freaking BAND! First time I realized the hatred of their fans, though Mork really capitalized and patented it.

As for Muddy, he's an HOF coach from his days at Hillsdale and later Saginaw Valley. Overall, he was known as a clean coach, which was a major step up in integrity from Denny Stoltz and Darryl Rogers. Probably like Hoke was for us, he just wasn't up to the level of Woody or Bo or Earle. NW had actually gone winless (one tie) in B1G play from 78-81. They won on a throwback pass to the QB. None other than future NFL guy Denny Green coached NW.

Perles came in preaching a "five year rebuilding program" meaning he needed 5 years to get the team juiced. He did recruit very well (Lorenzo White, etc.). Once the doping episode became known (John Cooper at ASU was another doper), his teams started their slide. After 87, they beat UM only twice before he got canned, and one of those was the Eddie Brown tripping game vs. Desmond. 

Bobby and John L were their Richrod/Hoke era. Just as we had one win (FG by a kicker I don't like to think about), they had one win (clockgate). 

I grudgingly admit Mork was a really good coach - beat Urban twice when Ohio was unbeaten. He also was freaking lucky to come in when PSU went thru the post Joe scholarship slide and we were in the wilderness of RR/Hoke for 7 years. He left the place in shambles, though. Fickell would have them perhaps challenging PSU for 3rd every year and winning 8 or 9 games. Luke's wife must have sensed the culture was built around hatred and coverup. 

As for the probation, Denny Stolz, who replaced Duffy after 1972 season, was busted for recruiting violations - Woody knew about it but didn't care until his #1 team lost at MSU in 1974. Woody then got the NCAA after Denny beat him. They were put on three year probation 76-78, no TV no bowls. 

Joined: 11/17/2008

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UMinSF

October 22nd, 2023 at 12:19 PM ^

I can add an anecdote. Back in the day Jumbo Elliot and Tony Mandarich were stationed as "bouncers" at the entrance of Rick's.

Both were absolute giants - 6'7", 320 lbs. each. Jumbo was built like a tank and had a ton of muscle - but also a paunch and some baby fat like one would expect from an O-lineman who had bulked up for CFB. 

Mandarich, OTOH, was absolutely ripped - and balding and covered in zits.

Absolute poster child for steroids. As obvious as Barry Bonds' giant head (which is normal size once again).

Joined: 04/06/2009

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Hensons Mobile…

October 22nd, 2023 at 3:13 AM ^

Yeah, I don't know what kind of moderating they do over there with accounts and posts but clearly they have a handful of truly disgusting people on that board.

I'm frankly more fascinated by the thread and thought process that makes some of them believe that canceling the game because of the alleged sign stealing was the correct thing to do. I've still never heard an explanation of how we get from "stole signs" to "health and safety concern."

Joined: 09/12/2019

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The Harbaughnger

October 22nd, 2023 at 3:58 AM ^

And then, after feigning concern for their safety, an MSU player spears the crown of his helmet with his entire body weight and accelerating momentum into the back of the head/neck of an opposing player. Lack of institutional control going on well over a decade.

 

Horrible stuff here from Michigan State's Spencer Brown…. suspension coming.

Can’t be doing this.

(via: @WoodsFootball) pic.twitter.com/TeJaiC0AmY

— JPAFootball (@jasrifootball) October 22, 2023

Joined: 08/27/2010

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bronxblue

October 22nd, 2023 at 7:20 AM ^

The guy saying "Brown was held by the head" when it was clear the two of them had just been engaged in contact and then Brown shoved him from behind is the type of fan who probably should just sit sports out.  I just can't imagine trying to be a serious fan of football and trying to defend that hit.

Joined: 11/22/2008

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