Question on Issue - Gattis vs. Patterson

It’s clear by now that Patterson is flawed as a QB in ways that are not fixable, and that Harbaugh’s reputation as a quarterback whisperer is seriously overblown.  But even given that, Gattis should be calling plays that minimize those problems.  Our pass plays virtually all take far too long to develop, and are not designed to get guys open in space. Essentially no slants, quick hitters or screens. 

Other than the initial big play to Bell against Wisconsin, how many plays have we had this year where the receiver ran further after the catch than the ball traveled? Damn few.

I mean both? There have been multiple instances of Shea making bad reads (INT yesterday), not throwing to open receivers (Nico vs Wisc), or refusing to take 1 on 1 shots down field (DPJ on a play Shea got sacked yesterday). He's clearly a major part of the problem, and that's before we get to his inability to run the ball leading to stacked boxes and killing the run game.

That being said our one good pass play yesterday was a PA bomb to Collins that looked to be a designed shot down field. It went for 51 yards and we never took a shot downfield again all game. It worked last year and its been our best O this year. And after that play we didn't see it again against Iowa. There were probably guys open downfield and Shea missed them, but if that's the case Gattis needs to call a play where Shea's first read is to chuck it downfield to Collins/DPJ. And it never happened. So it's Gattis too.

And all of this kills the run game. Despite all the speed in space talk, our offense is still based around run the ball up the middle. So teams stack the box and kill the RB run game. You can combat that with the QB Read game or deep passes. But we do neither. So we get what we saw yesterday.

It's just a perfect symphony of ineptitude really.

I think the majority of the issue rests with Gattis and his player development and training in his new system. Way too much blame is put on Patterson, and here’s why:

There’s no run game, at least not an effective one. The runs get stuffed. So there’s no credible run threat the defense has to account for. Every down becomes a passing down.

That puts more pressure on Patterson. I don’t think the other QBs would be in an improved position without an effective run game, either. The premise of the offense is the handoff or appearance of handoff, in the read option. If the run is getting stuffed every time, what on earth does anyone expect to happen? It’s just not going to be an effective offense.

Granted, the pass can set up runs, but the whole point of the fake handoff and the pull decision is based on being able to run. To put it into Clausewitzian military terms, the schwerpunkt - the point of attack and intention to confuse the enemy - is the handoff or pull.

Everyone looks hesitant, kind of like they’re not 100% sure what they’re supposed to be doing, especially when there’s pressure. The offense is a work in progress, and I really think this is where Gattis’ inexperience not just calling plays, but being responsible for teaching an entire offense, is a problem.

I’m not saying he’s an idiot, just that he has much to learn.

Rumors of too much time on the golf course and not being voted team captain. Our version of Connor Cook without the game day performance.

Would lean towards Shea--wasn't part of reason for transfer that he was in danger of losing starting job at Ole Miss?  

Also on coaches for not developing/improving him and, frankly, for not trying a change (assuming they don't when DM returns).  It's not looking good this year and if we continue to waste our talent at WR, I worry it will negatively affect offensive skill recruitment for years to come.

I don't understand how Patterson can make a perfect over the shoulder throw to a well covered DPJ along the sidelines (vs Rutgers) but then rarely repeat it when it's really needed.  It reeks of the yips and reflects Patterson's lack of composure when things tighten in game action.  As such, I believe Patterson's limitations are hindering forward progress of the offense.  Gattis and Harbaugh are in deep with their starter and both seem unwavering in their support of him.  That unwavering support could very well be our demise against our rivals this season.

This is my main offensive question as well.

It has to be mostly on Shea, since he is missing wide-open guys with alarming regularity, bugging out of clean pockets too early, and not keeping on read plays when it's obvious he should be. If he is being instructed not to keep, then it's more on Harbaugh and Gattis than what I have said here.

It falls somewhat on Gattis, since we're clearly not running enough of the deep routes we should be running, and because the playcalling doesn't show the flow that it should have. And forget about speed in space. That's not happening. Now, if Harbaugh is interfering, then it;s more on him than Gattis.

It also falls on Harbaugh, because the game-planning for individual opponents sucks (also on Gattis for that), the turtle-jobs are clearly coming from him - since he's done it for 5 years, and our "nationally ranked" recruiting has left us with glaring holes at OT and DT.

So yeah, it's a bunch of things. The O is systemically broken, and there's no easy fix. Dylan is hurt, and putting him in doesn't guarantee that anything with Harbaugh and Gattis changes - it;s not just Shea here. My guess is he'd be a slight overall improvement - at least he'll run the read-option - so maybe start him against Illinois. But then you run the risk of an even-more broken Shea if Dylan fails.

It's the OL.  If they do their job the QB, RB's & WR's will all have success.

We haven’t had consistently good QB play while Harbaugh has been here. It’s good sometimes, but the season to season gains aren’t there. 

Its bigger than Gattis or Shea. 

I don't think its guaranteed they will play Shea for the rest of the season.  

I can see the coaches pulling the trigger and puting Dylan in for the rest of the season when he's healthy. 

I think shea is mentally broken,  he realizes he isn't as good as he was hyped up to be for so many years and he's struggling to come to terms with this new reality. 

so here's my thought, I had this same issue in my head all day today.

If you follow a guy named Collin on Twitter who's a M guy, he does some film review talking about route trees vs defenseive coverages and what "should" be open depending on what the D is showing pre snap (cover 1, 2, etc). I think Gattis and Harbaugh's big failure is on their ability to effectively and effeciently teach this system to the players - certain the QB but also the OL and perhaps the receivers too but I don't notice Brian, say, giving a lot of bad grades to the WRs for poor routes, and Gattis is known as a goor WR coach.

I think, certainly in hindsight and a TBH I was a little worried at the time, that the golf comment Gattis made about SP was a harbinger - I now think Gattis let that comment slip, was like, 'oh shit did I say that out loud?!' and them tried to backtrack. Point is, from that guy Collin on twitter and the overall dumb decisions SP makes, that Shea doesn't know who should come open pre-snap, based on what the D is showing him pre-snap.

Now, some of the calls are dumb so that's on Gattis and their run 1st game vs army and subsequent pass 1st game against UW was dumb so it's not all on Shea, but jeez that guy needs to get his head out of his ass and understand what the defense will give you play to play, pre-snap. And if the coaches aren't going to hold SP accountable to get his head out of his ass, then I think the AD (and the alums/fans to an extend reasonable) need to hold this staff accountable.

Teach these guys to make the right fucking reads based on the D or GTFO. And if you feel like you're teaching them and they aren't executing, find the next guy who will. IMO, SP has until McCaffery gets to 100% to turn around his mental game. After that, I'd sit his ass real quick b/c whatever the offense is doing now, it's not good enough to win more than 8 games and that is not acceptable at this point in the program's trajectory with this level of talent and experience on offense. This ain't intramurals, brother. No one gives a shit about SP's NFL hopes cause if he can't do this now, the NFL won't draft him anyway

Shea was a limiting factor yesterday, it's easy enough to observe, more difficult to understand why.  Injury could impact his running, and his pocket presence could impact his ability to read the field.

With the injuries to Michigan QBs we will never know what the ceiling could have been, from Gardner to Speight to Peters.   

Guys are open, the QB doesn’t find them.   Is that a coach issue or a QB issue?  Pretty obvious it’s a QB issue.  Not every receiver will be open on every play.  They are designed to get one guy open and one safety valve.  Our QB rarely finds the open receiver.  If he does he over throws him.  If he checks down to the safety valve he over throws him.  Those are not coaching issues, other than having the wrong guy playing QB. 

Gatterson

All of the above. 

IMO people are giving Gattis way too much of pass. The best OCs build their offense to fit their personnel rather than try force square pegs in round holes.. This is why Ohio State has continued success despite transitioning from Braxton Miller/JT Barret to Cardale Jones, to Dwayne Haskins, to Justin Fields to whoever. Ohio State struggled at times early last year while they tried to figure out do with with a QB who was not a runner, but eventually Meyer and Day they figured out how to emphasize Haskins' skillset rather than just blame Haskins for not being able to run like JT Barret. 

Michigan installed a read-heavy offense around a QB who is bad a making reads. Whose fault is that? The fact is that Shea has gotten worse from last year, and a large part of that is simply due to the fact that the offense has gone away from the handful of things that he is good at (rolling out, QB runs, solid accuracy on deep balls) and instead emphasizes a lot of quick reads and timing throws at which he is frankly terrible. 

Clearly the problem is not just Shea, as the running game has been equally inept despite having running backs that have turned in solid individual performances. This is an offense that is significantly worse than the sum of its parts.

What we are seeing is a poorly managed effort to reboot an offense from scratch. Every indication is that Gattis was given full control to design and install whatever he wanted and we're seeing the product of that. Harbaugh shares blame for hiring a first time OC/first time play caller and giving him carte blanche, but this is Gattis' baby full stop.

75% Patterson

25% Coaches

Some college QBs just don't get better throughout college and have trouble finding receivers at the college speed.  Patterson seems to be one of those QBs.  Another good example would be J.T. Barrett - great runner but average at best passer.

I remember Pep and Wilton didnt mesh so who knows. I remember message board innuendo saying Gattis preferred Dylan but we all know what message board rumors do.