Question on Issue - Gattis vs. Patterson

Our running game improves considerably when McCaffrey or Milton come in.   By my count Shea pulled twice yesterday.  On the first pull he ran 15 yards and got a first down.   The second pull he got 5 yards.   Most of the time it doesn't look like he's reading on RPO plays.  He just gives.  

The game is in Youtube.  Watch the first drive of the 4th quarter.   He moved his head around and found open receivers and made the right throws.   On RPO he made the right read and gave based upon a DE crashing in.   On 3rd down in the red zone he made a great throw to Sainristrill in tight coverage.   Sainristrill got a little shove in the back, fell down and the ball just missed his hands.  Probably should have been a flag.   If he doesn't fall it's a perfect pass.   He also stepped up when the pocket began to collapse instead of bailing.   He's capable.  He's just WAY too inconsistent and his bad habits from last year are more frequent.   Also, last year when he was on the run his receivers would run back toward him.   I'm not seeing that as much this year and that would be on the WR coach.  

To me it looks like execution is a bigger problem than play-calling and that falls far more on Shea than Gattis.  

I feel it is the QB's fault the most.  RPO's have to be right and going through passing progressions properly is key.

In the past few weeks I have seen so many bad reads where the ball should be pulled by the QB.  I have also seen many back foot throws which then sail over the WR's.  He also is leaving the pocket too soon many times.  He has happy feet often. He does much better when rolling out which I wish they would just incorporate if they want to leave him in there.  I feel the play calling is actually fine, it just needs to be executed better by the QB.

I also feel that it is not Gattis as much as JH as far as keeping Shea in there. I am not so sure that Gattis is allowed to make the call of who the actual starting QB is.  Of course this just an assumption.

If Shea can get better at making his proper RPO decisions that would help a ton.  I also agree with most on this board that if he wants to lock on a receiver, then lock on one that is going deep and/ or in man coverage.

I think they are on the right path there are just many kinks to still work out.  The offense is for sure different this year but the run game is not great due to several factors.   Next weeks game should be another game to fine tune things better and make progress for the offense (I hope).

I'd say it's 2/3 Shea and 1/3 Gattis. Watching the game in person, we were definitely calling plays where receivers were getting open on a somewhat regular basis, but Shea was just unable or unwilling to throw to them. However, Gattis also has some blame in that he never seemed to go with what was working. We would have one decent drive, then the next drive we would do something completely different and it wouldn't work. I also think if Shea was more willing to run the ball, that would also solve some things on offense as well

I was contemplating posting this as another thread, but I think this fits well here:

An interesting quote that I didn't think much of at the time... but I wonder how much this setup Shae to not be as "Sharp" entering the season with a new OC:

""I was a little bit worried about him coming into camp, because he spent so much time on the golf course this summer," Gattis told media Wednesday in Ann Arbor. "I wanted to see him more calling me and asking questions..." 

Gattis went on to say Shae was playing "lights out..." but that is a strange way to start a compliment. Now, seeing Shae feel uncomfortable and not seeing his check downs - might be something here to Shae's lack of mental prep. I have had plenty of athletes waltz into their Senior year thinking they just have it in the bag or not putting in the same work they did their Sophomore & Junior years and be flat because that hunger/fire was gone.

In 2018, Michigan scored about 35 points a game. Indeed, they were over 38 points aside from ND, Sparty, and Indiana (and the Bowl, but that’s another story).  Remember they scored 39 on OSU.  The OL is basically intact. They lost Gentry at TE, but they were deep there. They lost Higdon and Evans, but added Charbonnet. They essentially added Black at wide receiver.  So as best I can tell, the two differences are that Patterson got dinged on the first play of the season, and there’s a new OC.  I was excited as most about the Gattis hire, but I’ve got to think that’s the main reason the offense is so bad.

100% Harbaugh. The particulars may be different but the basic issues are the same.

I think you have a major issue with your offensive line and QB understanding the new playbook / concepts.  

These things happen under a transition.  None of us should be surprised at a first year OC and a new playbook.  

Bottom line, we went away from the staples of a good running attack last year - power w/ FB, G pin / pull, and arc - so we are learning the nuances all over again.  That puts pressure on the passing game.  That is when the other D pins the ears backs.  Shea gets rattled, empties the pocket too much, and makes bad reads.  

We need to just let it ride.  Doing dumb stuff like a random inserted FB carry only bogs things down.  This offense can probably work and be explosive ...  But it takes the full team, working in tandem, understanding the playbook.  You can even see the often acclaimed WRs messing up - see Gattis yell at Nico yesterday for breaking off an out route 2 yards short of a first down.  Prime example.  Takes time to build up the confidence in system / self / others.  

Sorry for the level headed, logical take.  I know we hate that on this site.  Fire JH rabble rabble.  

If your answer to this question is Gattis than by default the issue is Harbaugh.  Just to reiterate, I don’t want him fired and there’s part of me that thinks he can turn things around - however my confidence would be higher if it was the old version of Harbaugh.  That being said,  my opinion was the same with Hoke.  The issue was Dave Brandon because he made the hire and put Hoke in a situation that was over his head.  If Gattis is not ready for play calling than the responsibility falls on Harbaugh for not doing his homework before hiring him.  Demoting or firing him at this point would be an admittance to his due diligence failure, which he’s not going to do at this point.

I think Gattis deserves some time and I don’t believe for one minute he or the team believes in Patterson.  Let Gattis make the call on the starting QB.  

In rewatching the game, I would go 70-30 blame to Patterson. However, where Gattis fails is demonstrated in the picture here. Teams are playing us in deep zones, taking away our WRs athleticism (or at least muting it). Very little in our playbook seems to be designed to punish teams when they play 10 yards off our guys... see photo - 

https://twitter.com/colintj/status/1180874042007588864?s=21

the golf comment was during camp. Gattis said he was a little afraid Shea had a little too much time on the golf course this summer but immediately walked that back by staying Shea had it locked in now(being mid aug). 

During the Rutgers game, frequently 3 receivers would be open.  Shea just needed to pick which one to throw to.  Often, he picked the most difficult throw and rarely did he target the deepest receiver.  He’s locking on which probably has something to do with a desire to get rid of the ball and not get hit.  He often leaves a good pocket and he almost always rolls to his right when he does.  Opposing teams know that and he often rolls right into the pressure.

I’m wondering what Ben McDaniels is drilling with him.  He needs to break tendencies and work through his progression.  He often has trouble with zone coverage, so why aren’t they working on throwing to the seams?  Requires timing and I think they’d use practice to work on that.

it would also appear his confidence is low from all the fumbles and mistakes in the first 3 games.  Something goes wrong and it freaks him out.  He’s got to get back to where he was last season.

What has changed since last season, when Patterson was good?

Last year, through 5 games the team averaged 37.4 points per game; this year its 28.

Unfortunately, Gattison was a bad hire. 

You guys are all wrong.

Obviously the problem is Ben McDaniels.

Gattis is likely looking for trends in post game analytics to see what is working while Shea is throwing all sorts of randomness, or at least bias, into something that already has a huge random component. Can’t be easy. 

Having seen breakdowns of some epic failed reads, I seriously wonder about Shea’s vision, his actual visual acuity. They gotta be monitoring the players for things like detached retinas right? I would hope any other problems would come to light. 

I say 80% Patterson, 20% Gattis. I think the plays are there in the passing game for a QB who can read the field, not panic in the pocket, and airmail throws. The QB doesn't need to be Tom Brady but right now we have a poor man's John O'Korn. Once you make those plays, the running game opens up a lot as we saw on the 4th quarter drive where Patterson got the ball out quick and threw to the right guy. All of a sudden the running game worked too. Once we got to the red zone, he started panicking and throwing to the wrong guy again and the drive stalled.

Personally I have a hard time trying to find excuses for Shea. One had to look no further than the MSU game last night to see a quarterback that was getting harassed with guys in his face all night but still able to get the ball out of his hands in quick fashion. Lewerke was still able to quickly survey the field and find open receivers. It just appears that Shea is really slow at dissecting the defense and coverages. Watched a lot of football yesterday and saw so many quarterbacks throwing to much less talented receivers and still completing passes. I too wish we could see the game tape from behind the line of scrimmage to see what is actually going on. 

Instead of Gattis or Patterson, how about we take a little time to check out the performance of our offensive line?  ?

Burn it all down and start over. Quit avoiding the inevitable.

I would say both.....some plays Shea clearly messes up, like the INT where he threw it late, and the others the call is stupid, like a fade to Bell in the end zone and NOT to one of the giants we have out there.

all around shitty I’m afraid....