OT: Saban on his decision to retire
An ESPN article just came out with some details on Saban’s decision to retire. I’m not sure if any of this is really “news”, but I thought there were some pretty interesting details that I hadn’t read before.
It's a fairly long article, but here are some (long) highlights:
Saban told the ‘Bama AD (Byrne) that he was nearing the end of his coaching career after the 2022 season, and Byrne immediately began vetting coaches as Saban’s replacement.
After the 2022 season, Saban informed Byrne he was nearing the end of his Hall of Fame coaching career…
While hopeful Saban would keep coaching, Byrne knew deep down that the 72-year-old legend was giving him notice, so he quickly went to work. Byrne had his staff research the college head-coaching hires over the past 25 years from the winningest 25 programs during that span.
"Part of what I was trying to understand is what were the analytics, and our studies showed that 75% of the time you're basically hiring a Group of 5 head coach, Power 5 coordinator or NFL coordinator," Byrne said. "That's not necessarily a negative, but when it comes to the theory that you're going to hire just whoever you want, the percentages don't support that."
Saban still could’ve held out for a couple of years, but it looks like two factors pushed him to make his decision when he did.
1. The changes in player mentality
But Alabama's 27-20 overtime loss to Michigan in the CFP semifinal at the Rose Bowl on Jan. 1 was a hard one for Saban to digest. Not only was Saban upset about the way his team played, he was especially disheartened about some of the things that happened afterward -- in the Rose Bowl locker room and back on campus, when he met with some of the players.
"I want to be clear that wasn't the reason, but some of those events certainly contributed," Saban said of his decision to retire. "I was really disappointed in the way that the players acted after the game. You gotta win with class. You gotta lose with class. We had our opportunities to win the game and we didn't do it, and then showing your ass and being frustrated and throwing helmets and doing that stuff ... that's not who we are and what we've promoted in our program."
Once back in Tuscaloosa, as Saban began meeting with players, it became even more apparent to him that his message wasn't resonating like it once did.
"I thought we could have a hell of a team next year, and then maybe 70 or 80 percent of the players you talk to, all they want to know is two things: What assurances do I have that I'm going to play because they're thinking about transferring, and how much are you going to pay me?" Saban recounted. "Our program here was always built on how much value can we create for your future and your personal development, academic success in graduating and developing an NFL career on the field.
"So I'm saying to myself, 'Maybe this doesn't work anymore, that the goals and aspirations are just different and that it's all about how much money can I make as a college player?' I'm not saying that's bad. I'm not saying it's wrong, I'm just saying that's never been what we were all about, and it's not why we had success through the years."
2. The assistant coach carousel
Saban had also grown weary of churning through assistant coaches every year. For example, Tommy Rees, who was hired during the 2023 offseason, was Saban's seventh offensive coordinator in the past 11 years, and on occasion, there were nearly entire overhauls. After the 2018 season, seven assistants left for other jobs. Saban could tell that his age was becoming a factor in hiring coaches.
"People wanted assurances that I was going to be here for three or four years, and it became harder to make those assurances," Saban said. "But the thing I loved about coaching the most was the relationships that you had with players, and those things didn't seem to have the same meaning as they once did."
Saban probably deserves to be in conversation as the GOAT. I'm glad that Michigan could send him off to retirement with an L.
Saban signed number 1 classes with the same results weve had the last three years.
There is a reason for #1 recruiting class for an entire generation and #13(ish) class for 3 seasons. Saban brought in a shit ton of money to bring in talent (especially early). Now he doesnt like it that its open season. He liked fighting 1-2 schools with bags of cash but now its 20 plus.
I know we've done well over the last 3 years, but you can't compare a 3 year stretch that has been the most successful for Michigan football since 1997, with the body of work that Saban has had over the past 17 years at Alabama. Additionally, Harbaugh was off interviewing for NFL jobs each of those seasons, so it's no surprise that we weren't able to capitalize further on that in terms of recruiting success.
Besides that, we also have much tougher admissions standards at U of M than they do at Alabama, so even if all other things would be equal, they would have an advantage as far as recruiting. I think that better explains their recruiting success compared to us than the easy (and unverified) excuse that they are paying players when there is no evidence at all to support that other than rumors and speculation.
I can compare his first 3 full recruiting classes absolutely. What he did recruiting the first 36 months there is unprecedented here. With only the nuclear bomb that was the fab 5 as being a comparison and wow look at the results? Curious. Dont confuse the next dozen years im focusing on those first three and what he did to dominate from the start. Losses to Louisiana Lafayette im sure would be huge boosts to our recruiting.
Not paying players? Cumong man.
Ok, that is a different argument than what I thought was being made.
per rivals:
Alabama 2008 #1 class, 3-5* 19-4*. Just a bit ahead of Notre Dame (3-5*, 16 4*), Florida (4-5*, 12-4*) and Ohio (4-5*, 9-4*). First, but not exactly world breaking, although coming after a 7-6 year.
Alabama 2009 #1, 4 5*, 14 4*. Ahead of LSU (4-5*, 11-4*) and USC (4-5*, 11-4*). First again, but similar enough to other top programs, and coming off a 12-2 season.
Alabama 2010 #5 1 5*, 15 4*. Behind USC (4 13), Florida (4-5* 17-4*) Texas (2-5* 19-4*), Auburn (3- 5* 13-4*). This is coming off Saban's first National Championship season. Again, in line with other top programs.
I don't think any of this stuff screams "unprecedented". Did he start off strong? Absolutely! But he was just returning from a stint in the NFL,and had won a national championship at LSU 5 years prior. It's not out of the question that he would be able to use that to help him recruit. And recruiting was in line with what USC, LSU, Texas and Florida were getting at the time as well. It doesn't look like a total outlier to me.
To be clear, I'm not saying he couldn't have possibly been cheating or paying players, I'm saying that the evidence presented is speculation, so we shouldn't treat it as an unquestionable truth.
This is the work of the conferences and the tv networks bidding the contracts up, and to a lesser extent their agents that negotiate the contracts and the consumers that continue to pay for the ever-growing cost of cable/streaming tv services.
It's not like Nick Saban's agents are negotiating pay raises against Saban's wishes. His first contract signed in 2007 was for an average of $4 million per year—a yearly salary literally unimaginable to all but a tiny fraction of the American population—and by the time he retired it had almost tripled to over $11 million.
Saban has agency—he could have decided at any point that 6 or 8 mill was enough for what he does. However, I do recognize that nobody in his shoes does that, so now that the players have leverage, they're going to do the same exact thing too.
I'm not denying that, but the reason school have been able to increase coaching salaries by as much as they have is because more money was coming in from conference tv network deals, not vice versa.
Saban disliked Harbaugh. Losing to Michigan while he was at MSU and then ending his career with a loss to Harbaugh's Michigan probably didn't do much to change his mindset to hang it up.
Sounds like Saban left college football for basically the same reasons John Beilein left college basketball.
"How much am I going to play and how much are you going to pay me". I get why everyone does this (hell, I would definitely do this as well) but damn that must be exhausting for a HC to deal with.
I don't shed a tear when a guy who made a career off paying players starts complaining that players are expecting money now.
There are some other coaches who can definitely lament the NIL era of player, but when it comes from Saban, it sounds like whining.
There is no evidence for the narrative that Saban was paying players, at least nothing other than speculation that it must be so. I don't believe Alabama's recruiting success was due to cheating, I believe that they consistently got the best players because they were consistently winning championships and getting players drafted in the NFL. Saban had his pick of players because they wanted to be a part of that when NIL was not an option.
If you believe the stories from the recruiting trail, Alabama had a system in place for compensating players. I doubt Saban had to actually talk numbers with any players. He just knew that if he offered a player, they would be taken care of by their system of boosters.
A couple of other schools have been rumored to have similar programs. As long as the coach offered them, the players were going to get some form of compensation, and it would be competitive with the 4-5 other programs.
So yeah, Saban probably wasn't sitting in front of players talking numbers, so he has plausible deniability, but c'mon. And suddenly, now he's got players who can field dollar offers from every school, and they're coming to him directly. Yeah, he's not going to like it.
Right, these are stories and rumors not backed up by actual evidence. If that had been the case for all these years, where is the smoking gun? Though I agree that no evidence of wrongdoing doesn't necessarily mean that there wasn't any, it also doesn't mean that there was.
I think the success that Alabama on the field, combined Saban's ability to get top players exposure on the biggest stage in college football and the lower admissions standard would probably give them a huge advantage in recruiting compared to other teams over the past 17 years. No other team has had close to that level of success over such a long period of time, so it's really not that surprising that it would influence top recruits decisions more so in the days before NIL and free transfers than it does now.
lol, use google, there are a billion stories about players being paid, often coming from the player themselves.
But are any of them verified? You can find a lot of shit on the internet, doesn't mean it's true just because someone says it.
Point me to a single story backed up by actual facts and I'll digress.
LMAO at you if you really believe that BS you posted.
Different scenarios, though.
The Bama boosters (probably with Saban's knowledge) paid recruits to come to Alabama. They didn't necessarily pay them to stay.
It was also much less attractive to transfer due to the 1 year ineligibility rule. Once they got rid of that and the portal was open season, things changed a bit. Then with the advent of NIL, it literally became free agency - a problem they never had to deal with before.
Whatever you think of Saban, the game has changed. That Michigan suffered so few impact transfers over the years (Sabb notwithstanding this year) speaks highly of the kids they have. But I am under no illusions that we will see this consistently. It is the wild west, pandora's box is open, etc.
Agree in theory, but in reality, they are very different to me. Beilein was targeting a lot of under the radar players and built them into champions and NBA players. I think he was tied for first, or second overall with getting his kids to the NBA. I think it was hard for him not knowing how many kids he would need, since he was so good at getting kids to the NBA, and got frustrated by some earlier than expected departures.
Saban consistently had the number one recruiting classes, due to talent and oversigning, where he pushed players to grey shirt, or take a medical exemption, or just push them out. similar, but very different to me.
Comparing the cleanest coach in history to one of the dirtiest is just plain gross.
The changes to the transfer rule shifted bargaining power to the players. NIL means they can discuss their level of pay directly with the head coach if they so choose.
I can see where that is an uncomfortable switch for the coach and boosters that perfected player procurement under the old system.
This also makes me further appreciate and understand coach Moore's desire to add a general manager position to the football program.
I can understand the frustration from Saban, even though he had no problem getting players paid when it benefitted him. He is still, by many accounts, the best coach in CFB history, and it has to be frustrating to try to talk to players about football for next season and all they want to talk about is the money.
It would be like going to a job interview and refusing to talk at all about the job duties and your fit in the organization, and instead only asking about the salary and bonus structure. I want my people to be well-paid, but I also want them to actually care about doing the job and benefitting the organization as well.
I can't say that college football is better because of Saban's involvement with it but what he says is insightful and it doesn't surprise me. The world of pay for play and college football player free agency changes the dynamic and even though Saban benefitted from the bag men, his day to day was probably insulated from it. Create value for the future, personal development and academic success in graduating is no longer the game, for better or worse, and it is affecting the old time coaches who are interested in adapting.
I think this had a lot to do with Beilein retirement. Add the world of NIL and I can't see him wanting to jump back in. I don't think I'd want him to.
Nick is correct and is the GOAT. He is 72 with nothing to prove. Times have changed and he needed to move on. Being an analyst is a great transition and more sane life style.
Side note: The MgoWife and I going to Muscle Shoals, AL to see the music studios. Has anyone done this? Any recommendations of other things to do?
Have you seen the Muscle Shoals documentary? If not, it's available free on Youtube. But I assume you have since you're going, but watch it again anyway!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKmGUIM1uAI
Never been to Muscle Shoals or Florence, but looks like they have a Frank Lloyd Wright house, if you're into architecture, or an Indian Mounds museum if you're into anthropology (I've been to the Etowah mounds in GA when I was a kid and the Cahokia mounds in southern IL more recently - really fascinating stuff). Looks like Helen Keller's birthplace is also near there.
Huntsville isn't too far from there (maybe an hour or so) and is an interesting town with all the space/rocket stuff (US Space and Rocket Center - my old boss's father used to work there in the 60s). It's actually a pretty charming city.
Probably another 45 min east of Huntsville is the Unclaimed Baggage store. Kind of a weird kitschy thing to do, but they sell stuff from unclaimed airline baggage - both passenger stuff and commercial stuff. We stopped by on the way from Nashville to Atlanta and I found a Michigan t-shirt which I bought - blue with The Team The Team The Team printed on the front.
Thanks Andrew for the reply and suggestions. That documentary was on Netflix is exactly what spurred our curiosity and really learned a lot from it.
We'll probably go from Nashville down the Natchez Trace and do many of the things you suggest ( Keller House/ FLW house) wearing our NC gear in Alabama lol. I am a big Lewis and Clark fan and Merriweather Lewis has a memorial on NT trail near where he shot himself. His life was so incredible and sad.
We also have this odd thing about seeing all 50 states and MgoWife hasn't been to Mississippi so we may sneak over to Tupelo and see the Elvis stuff. Total tourist stuff.
Appreciate the info!
shit THATS where my tee shirt went
Lol... Found a picture of the shirt after I bought it. Hard to see, but I believe I paid $6.29 + tax for it. Sorry (not sorry) I got your shirt. It's pretty awesome!
We have the greatest football coach of all-time looking at the NIL / transfer / roster management / conference-shifting landscape and saying "You know what? I'm good. Time to hit the beach.",
yet we got MFers on here thinking it is a reasonable possibility that John Beilein will want to come back to Div 1 NCAA coaching after a 5-year layoff.
Exactly. And Beilein bounced before NIL and transfer easing because he was tired of the one and done’s.
He's also in his 70s that likely played as much or more into his decision as NIL.
"But Alabama's 27-20 overtime loss to Michigan in the CFP semifinal at the Rose Bowl on Jan. 1 was a hard one for Saban to digest."
Anyone else smile when they read this? And think "OMG, Michigan really did win a national championship! Michigan beat Bama and sent Nick Saban to retirement as a loser". Holy fuck.
Harbaugh to Saban (just don't think about how it actually works out in the movie):
I read this as when a school not named Bama/Clemson/Georgia/OSU has a chance to win a title, that Saban wasn't interested in competing any more. 😉
saban probably got tired of yelling (now that its legal), "i paid you losers good money, now stop screwing up!!"
seriously, harbaugh kept it together just barely long enough, just enough of team concept to win it all. i hope sherrone can also do it, but the more i think about it, the more daunting the task looks to be. we beat ohio because they are/were mercenaries, but maybe nearly all the best players will turn out to be mercenaries with the way NIL is going to affect things.
I didn't get the sense that Alabama players were being an ass after the final, I thought they were pretty classy. If anything there were some Michigan players that didn't exactly 'win with class' with some of the taunting after the final whistle.
He's the GOAT, he's 72, he deserves to retire on his own terms and his own time. If anything it really mirrors Beilein stepping away, given that college football has finally caught up to college basketball in the way that players getting $$ talks (whether you consider it fair or dirty).
You can cross Seth McLaughlin off the list of throwing his helmet, if Saban said " players rolled their helmets " then we'd know who the guilty party was
Not OT, man. To quote Brian on the podcast, "We fucking retired that fucker".
Or whatever he said.
That’s beautiful, Vlad!
Jimmy in 2021: My ultimate aspiration is to go back to the NFL and win a Super Bowl.
Warde: sounds good Jim, I’ll get right on that succession plan. Leaders and Best.
Jimmy in 2024: *Leaves for Chargers*
Warde: I ran all the analytics over past 3 years , and the answer is to do nothing. Sherrone, you’re up. Make us proud!!!
Good find, B@L. Thanks!
He's talking about playing for pride and with dignity. And he no longer wanted to hear: what's in it for me, my playing time, and my checkbook.
The CFB game is changing. If you like its trajectory, that's fine.
If you don't (disclosure: I'm not a fan of CFB being junior pro ball), then enjoy the accomplishments of Team 144 and figure out what's next for you (and me).
Time to move on to the NFL where salary cap and parity are emphasized without the illusion of amateurism.
Um, the kids these days don't use a checkbook...boomer. LOL
Figure of speech, tough concept for some, I know. 😉
You can Venmo me a token of gratitude, 😅
"Saban probably deserves to be in conversation as the GOAT."
like duh?
Yeah, I was just covering my bases there. 😊
Saban's hypocrisy over his frustration about members of his team wanting to know what they'd get paid is honestly hilarious.
I don't begrudge Saban for not really wanting to deal with a locker room that largely has a mentality of "play me and pay me or I'm leaving." It has to be exhausting have to re-recruit your roster every single year now. Major college football has essentially turned into everyone being a perpetual free agent coming into a program on a one year deal. That's no way to build a program.
That said, whether he had a direct hand in it or not, coaches like him getting hyper-bloated salaries and being more powerful than the freaking state governor inevitably led us all down this path. Coaches could rake in millions of dollars every year, leave their program in the middle of the night to go coach another school or leave for the NFL, and the players had to suck it up, deal with it, and not make a cent off their own labors. If they wanted to transfer, they sat out a year.
Others here have said it as well, but if the counter-argument to that is "Saban is just getting paid what the market dictates he get paid," then fine, but why should that not apply to the players? They are physically providing the product and the entertainment just as much as the coaches, if not moreso.
I'm not as venomous on Saban as some here are, although I don't feel too bad for him when he got to oversign his classes loaded with five stars and ditch the ones who didn't pan out. Now he doesn't want to deal with NIL and having to re-recruit his own roster?
We're in a world now that he really helped create.
Yeah that's where I land. His all-in approach to building a war machine is a large part of why the sport is what it is today. That said, his job wasn't to make college football healthier, it was to win games and to his immense credit, he did that. I think, when you talk about his legacy, it's reductive to say he only won because he bought the best players. He was the GOAT because he committed to literally every single aspect of the program in a way that few other coaches have emulated. He was the ultimate control freak and having a roster of five stars was only one (albeit a pretty major piece) part of his machine. (And yes he was totally on board with bagmen, but so was everyone else in the conference)
I do think he mostly *accelerated* today's CFB environment, rather than outright created it With or without Saban, money uber alles. Even if he never existed, someone would've done some of what he did and players were eventually going to wise up and start chasing the bag for themselves. Amateurism had been a sham for decades now, even before Saban joined the SEC; he merely kicked the teetering boulder down the slope.
Bama players, NIL money and how much am I playing or starting next year? Saban isn't wrong about the direction of cf and the focus and mental make up of players now.
It sounded a lot like osu players after the loss to Michigan. Rather than lose with class they all jumped in the portal or were in Day's ear about NIL money and how much they would play next year. McCord and his family wanting a guarantee he would start next season or he was gone
I know Milroe threw his helmet, but the guy played his ass off after being doubted all year and got stuffed at the goal line to lose the game. It's understandable in the heat of the moment.