Let's revisit an old thread: "What are your real expectations if we get Harbaugh"?

Submitted by UMxWolverines on December 2nd, 2019 at 3:35 PM

https://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/what-are-your-real-expectations-if-we-got-harbaugh?sort_by=thread&items_per_page=50&page=3

1. A lot that said Hoke recruited well and that Harbaugh shouldn't have too much trouble early on

2. A lot of "Big Ten title and playoff appearance by year 5 as he had Stanford to 12-1 in four years

3. Beat OSU 50 percent of the time and get back on even footing with them

4. Have the roster fully stocked

5. Develop NFL QBs

So after 5 years one of those has happened I guess...the first one. Do with it what you want. 

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Eng1980

December 2nd, 2019 at 8:56 PM ^

Wait.  Seriously?  I just might be the homer of homers and I did not think we would bear OSU and MSU in year one (no QB at hiring and an opening loss to Utah killed hopes of a start that fast.)

I thought a national championship in year two was the best hope.  Getting #1 should get you #2. 

Only this year, did I quit expecting/openly hoping for the Lions to play well after some 47 years.  I now watch the Lions with the same passion as a randomly selected team while rolling through the channels.

Joined: 04/28/2016

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Jimmyisgod

December 2nd, 2019 at 3:46 PM ^

This is what's hard for us fans to reconcile.  0-5 and no titles is not what anyone expected.  In fact, I would bet you zero Ohio State fans expected to go 5-0 vs Harbaugh.

The question is though, are we trending in the right direction vs where we want to be?  I say that's a resounding NO.  Ohio State will blow us out next year in Columbus, I am more certain of that than I was heading into Saturday's game. Can Harbaugh get it done here?

Joined: 01/24/2012

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snarling wolverine

December 2nd, 2019 at 4:14 PM ^

You two are textbook examples of blind homerism.

Harbaugh  has gone 47-17.  Zero media members are calling for his dismissal - in fact, they all ridicule the idea.  But you're so blinded by your own, completely arbitrary belief that Michigan is Alabama North that you can't see what everyone else is seeing, which is that Harbaugh is performing at essentially our historical norm, with the exception of one series against a program that actually is basically Alabama North right now.

Joined: 12/14/2011

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BatmanUMfan

December 2nd, 2019 at 8:11 PM ^

This is absolutely on point. This board loves to rip on James Franklin and yet he’s actually beaten Ohio State and his defense does not get shredded like UM, and is a better recruiter than Harbaugh. Michigan needs to be a close second to Ohio State and needs to beat good teams on the road : Penn State and Wisconsin. Until Michigan can consistently beat good teams on the road like Ohio State does, Michigan will continue to lose two tough road games a year and finish behind Penn State, even after Michigan beats Penn State in the same season. 

Joined: 07/02/2018

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Jimmyisgod

December 2nd, 2019 at 3:53 PM ^

MSU and ND blew this season.  We played 3 good teams, got blown out by 2 and lost to the 3rd.  It's freaking year 5 and year 6 is looking like more of the same.  

This thread brings up a good point, we didn't pay Harbaugh $40 Million to beat bad teams, go 0-5 vs OSU, and 1-3 in Bowl games (No one mentions that).  We paid him to win Big Ten Titles and compete for National Titles.

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Logan_Howlett

December 2nd, 2019 at 3:57 PM ^

From Jourdan Lewis - "Don’t talk to me about a free education, because when I got to school I was told I couldn’t major in graphic design. It didn’t fit my, “schedule.”

Our players may "school" a bit more than OSU's players do... but don't fool yourself with our education narrative. Our players are athletes first like every other major program. 

And about this trend... next year, when we go 8-4 and lose all of our biggest games except the Spartan game, what will you say about the trend? I'm all for being optimistic, but at some point we need to face reality. We are not where we want or need to be, and Jim has failed us. It's year 5!

 

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FatGuyTouchdown

December 2nd, 2019 at 4:08 PM ^

I was with you until you said 8-4 next year. Washington lost their head coach, Penn State and Wisconsin are at home, and Michigan State is ass. 10-2 with a 45 point loss to Ohio State will probably be my prediction. We'll return 7/11 starters on defense, and losing Glasgow isn't exactly a curse. Sophomore leap forward for Mazi, Chris Hinton, Dax, and Charbonnet. A second year of Gattis running things, Ronnie Bell, Corn Johnson, Giles, Sainristil, and maybe one of the Big 3 will be a good receiving corps, OL will be fine with Warinner. Maybe not a playoff team, but a good enough team to really break me next year against Ohio State

Joined: 09/07/2014

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Logan_Howlett

December 2nd, 2019 at 3:47 PM ^

The University needs to ask themselves if Jim is capable of accomplishing more than he has. They need to seriously assess and figure out their path forward. I truly feel this program is at a crossroads and one where the wrong decision could damage this program for the next decade or even more.

 

Joined: 11/26/2015

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andidklein

December 2nd, 2019 at 4:36 PM ^

I don't think you can dismiss it as Meyer just wouldn't take the job. Before he went to OSU, Michigan was one of the 3 schools he had on his bucket list to coach (ND the other). The guy is such a sociopath that he could talk himself to taking the job here because:

A- He was wronged by OSU when they forced him out.

B- He would love to prove he could do it again, and what better place than Michigan.

People say Harbaugh needs to leave, he hasn't lived up to the standard "we" want. These people are talking out of their asses. They want to be proud of the program and the University, but they want to win it all. You can't have both. Michigan would need to do what the SEC and OSU do to compete at that level.

You could tell at warmups that some Michigan players were intimidated. They kept looking over their shoulder at OSU. They couldn't stop doing it, even when the refs tried to redirect them to what they were supposed to do.

The only way Michigan will win and compete with the big programs is to do what they do, to get the type of players they get. I'm not sure a lot of those players are interested in playing school.

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Jimmyisgod

December 2nd, 2019 at 4:02 PM ^

That's dishonest, we've already changed a ton.  You don't remember around here when over signing was looked down on?  When processing kids was something Michigan would never ever do?  When pulling a kids offer was something only scummy SEC schools and OSU did?  When Michigan was for sure above hiring the family and friends of players to land their commitments?  

Give me a break with this holier than thou attitude, Michigan has already dramatically changed what is OK here in regards to their roster.

Joined: 01/24/2012

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SFWolverineFan

December 2nd, 2019 at 4:27 PM ^

I'm not trying to be holier than thou, and I'm not sure why my comment was taken that way.  The upshot of what I said stands:  When the university hired Harbaugh we made some changes to how we treat the program, and the players/recruits. We "leveled up" to a top-15 program.  If we want to "level-up" again to a Top-5 program, we need to start acting like one.  I'm not advocating for either choice, I'm just identifying the issue, as I see it. 

Joined: 09/27/2011

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SFWolverineFan

December 2nd, 2019 at 3:50 PM ^

I think, more than anything, what getting Harbaugh has shown to the fanbase is that we're not a head coach away from being a playoff team.  We were a head coach away from getting back to what Michigan was historically (~.750 winning percentage, top-15 team).   We were never a consistent top-5 program in the modern era.  This wasn't too much of a problem, but once OSU made the leap to a consistent top-5 team, it showed us exactly how far away from that standard we are.  

Those expectations for Harbaugh were rooted in an idea that Michigan = OSU.  Which, historically, was accurate.  Harbaugh brought Michigan back to being Michigan (in terms of winning percentage).  OSU, however, took a huge leap forward with Meyer that Harbaugh couldn't (or, depending on what you believe about paying for recruits, wouldn't) replicate. 

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SFWolverineFan

December 2nd, 2019 at 4:51 PM ^

I hear what you're saying, but we need to face some facts:

1) You're right - we had the highest winning percentage, but that winning percentage was bolstered by a lot of wins before WW2. Since 1946, we're actually 6th in winning percentage.  We're behind:  Boise State, Oklahoma, OSU, PSU, and Alabama.  We're actually pretty significantly behind OSU (6%)

2)  Our winning percentage since WW2 is ~71%.  Harbaugh (~73%) is actually doing slightly better than Michigan has done, historically, in the modern era.  

Joined: 09/27/2011

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SFWolverineFan

December 2nd, 2019 at 5:26 PM ^

The issue you're running into is that "6th best winning percentage over a 70 year span" speaks more to consistency than "coming in 6th" in a given season.  Since hiring Harbaugh, Michigan has the 10th best winning percentage in college football (we're actually #11, but I'm excluding Appalachian State).  We're essentially tied with:  Penn State, LSU, and Notre Dame for #8-11.  

That said I do hear what you're about Harbaugh falling short of expectations, but that larger point I'm making is that our expectations were probably not properly adjusted for the reality of what Michigan is in the modern landscape of college football.  

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