Jake Fromm “Only elite white people should have guns”. WTF?!
1) so nothing he does or says until he retires can be private? Do you honestly feel that way?
2) I’m sure there’s a sexist joke on my phone somewhere. And other jokes I wouldn’t say in public. I would have no problem with my wife scrolling freely through my phone, if that means anything.
3) there’s a point where a joke is just a joke. People make a living off of telling terribly offensive jokes.
You are treading on some very thin ice here. There was this guy, a long time ago-whom a major religion was founded upon, who stated that there is no distinguishable difference between thinking an act and doing it. A "joke is a joke" eh...well, a lie is a lie too...and here they are one and the same. And that at this moment your are 9 votes to the positive with your remarks gives me great pause. Have we learned nothing over the past several months???
There is a time and place for every joke, especially dependent on the subject. People joke and post memes about the coronavirus all day long while over 100k people have died from it in the USA alone. Where’s the outcry over that? Maybe it’s because I’m polish and have heard every polish joke imaginable or because I was always picked on as a kid but I’m not a snowflake who’s easily offended. A joke is meant to make another person laugh, does that mean that prison actually believes what they’re saying? A joke isn’t indicative of who a person really is but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
Agreed. I went to a bar the night of the day the Challenger blew up. People were already telling jokes about it. "What's NASA stand for? Need another seven astronauts."
I could not disagree more. Jokes that perpetuate racism and other discord have no time or place. If you find disparaging jokes funny you are part of the problem.
It is very clear that some on this board have learned little or nothing.
I remember watching Jimmy Kimmel and Adam Carola when they were doing "The Man Show" back on Comedy Central - almost exclusively sexist humor, in public (let alone what their off camera jokes must have been).
20 years later Kimmel is now the headliner of ABCs late night programming, in addition to many other appearances. It seems, for him at least, his sexist humor wasn't a problem. Curious. (He also has racist humor in his past, including doing blackface, but I never saw any of that myself).
I sort of liked the Man Show when Kimmel and Corolla were on it even though I didn’t watch it often. Sure it was sexist, but it was done in a tongue in cheek way of “I hope my wife doesn’t catch me saying this.” When Joe Rogan and that other dude took over it was just straight up misogyny and it was no longer funny. It was just gross.
I hope Fromm was making a tongue-in-cheek joke in a private conversation and he doesn’t really think that. If he isn’t cut he better hope Josh Allen stays healthy or he’s going to get lit up. Drew Brees is going to take some inspired hits this year.
Right!? Go back and watch old cartoons and see how many sexist and racial innuendos there are.
Glad my braj thread is sacred ground rn
I applaud the person who snitched him out and stood by it.
Yep, no way to really misinterpret that. I don’t see how he will be able to gain the confidence of most team mates after that.
Ryan Tannehill, John Rocker and Kenny Powers would all be great teammates for Jake.
Well, he says "haha" so I'm assuming it was a joke but I mean, how do you not realize that's a really bad joke to put out there?
Doing a racism with a “haha” is still doing a racism.
Wait ... so comedians doing racism jokes are totally racist in real life?
if racist jokes are part of your act in 2020... yes
Yeah sounds sketchy.
Very dumb thing to say, but true villain is Kirby Smart for failing to recognize he should have benched the guy before Fields transferred
I don't quite get the connection, to be honest. He wasn't an open racist (if he is/was one at all).
At least in that exchange, Jake is a perfect representative of the historical Deep South. (I don't know him personally.)
For those not in the know, 19th-century Deep South culture was as "1%" as it gets. A handful of rich plantation owners and everyone else (poor whites, poor non-whites). Guess who had lots of guns?
From the message, looks like he made a bad (and racist) joke (possibly intentionally sarcastic - hard to say) in a private conversation. The other party burned him by making it public. Foolish move by Fromm, but dick move by the other person.
Damn, the defense of a stupid uneducated back water hick, who wouldn't have passed 2nd grade in any state where football isn't king, is staggering.
Digital platforms aren't private numbnuts.
Clearly talking about suppressors, not guns themselves. I abhor the "elite white people" characterization, but this bullshit of putting words in people's mouths is bullshit. It's why we can't have a conversation in this country, because straw men don't listen.
Link to the original conversation? I haven't seen this one until now and like to get as much of the story as possible on this stuff.
Either way, seems completely tone-def like several other white athletes have been lately. Very disappointing to see.
EDIT: Nvmd, LongLiveBo got it covered when I was typing this. 3 months ago, sarcasm/poor joke or not, you don't say things like that unless you're racist to some extent.
It's from 15 months ago (March 2019).
Here's the thing, everyone is racist. We're all prejudiced about countless things, because that's how our brain functions - it makes snap judgments about everything we see. The only real variable is whether or not we become aware of our subconscious biases and not let them guide our behavior.
You're right, I just saw March.
I call bullshit. We don't all have inherent bias against races, religions, etc. And we certainly don't want to kneel on necks or chase them down in trucks and kill folks. Fucking horrible apologist take.
I'll say it again if it wasn't clear the first time:
1) Everyone is prejudiced by nature - their brain naturally categorizes everything it sees instantaneously. Our brain puts people into all sorts of categories - tall, short, fat, thin, light-skinned, dark-skinned, etc - and has a set of assumptions for each one. We can't control that even if we want to.
2) The variable is whether or not we become aware of our subconscious biases and not let it affect our behavior. Derek Chauvin failed at this. So did Fromm, apparently.
This is why racism is so persistent, because too many people aren't willing to honestly examine themselves. Are you willing to examine your own biases, or just going to delude yourself that they don't exist?
You are absolutely correct, & now I have to make sure I don't lump all dumb asses from Dayton together.
I think you'll find it does save time, though.
There's a substantial amount of peer-reviewed experimental evidence to back this up too.
This is an ignorant and reactionary take that is terrible and you should be ashamed.
Everyone is not racist. Please don’t conflate the word racist with unconscious bias. Your point is valid, but words matter. Everyone is susceptible to and has unconscious biases. That doesn’t make them racist.
Jake if you want to be accepted as a racist, go back to where you came Fromm.
State Farm?
"What are you wearing, Jake Fromm?"
"Right now, egg on my face, along with my foot in my mouth."
shrug.
looks like a failed attempt at sarcasm in a private text chat. i don't know if that really tells us anything about who he is, except not a comedian.
really, he needs to learn that as an NFL QB, he doesn't have the luxury to be that loose with his words.
either way though, really poor timing.
There is a lot more than just timing which is poor about that exchange.
Really? I never had a chat with any of my friend that was that racist. I guess we just run in different circles...
You've never had a conversation (face-to-face, text, whatever) where you said really dumb things in an effort to be funny which, when viewed by others, would be considered offensive in some way? I know I have and, I'm willing to bet, just about everyone has done the same.
No, I have had said and heard plenty of dumb things. I just never heard anything this racist. I don't think I am all that special. I have not hear anyone say n-word since high school.
The person he was texting with obviously thought it offensive enough to post it on Twitter.
There are many possibilities here, but the most likely are:
- he didn’t know the person he was texting that well, which, why would you say something like that to someone you didn’t know that well.
- he did know the person well enough to be texting with them, he felt comfortable enough to say it, and it finally went too far.
In either or those two scenarios, it’s pretty dumb and most likely racist.
I mean, it seems like the timing was very deliberate by the person who posted it. It's not a coincidence that this came out fifteen months after he said it and it just so happens that it's at a time when racial tensions are extremely high.
Yeah I didn't realize the conversation was that old. I guess I just assumed it had something to do with the stay home order protests and he was joking that was a way to keep those protests in order. But apparently not, and makes me really wonder what the hell context was around that original conversation.
We don’t need to be dissecting every personal conversation just to find potentially racial comments and force someone to make an empty statement/apology. How does that solve the issue?
I agree with this, but why do so many of these apologies include the phrase, "That's not who I am?" It's probably true sometimes, but most of the time there was a need for an apology because it's exactly who they are.
I would add that the race element here is particularly unnecessary. If he had just said, "so only elite, rich people" then this would be a non-story, though it would still be disgusting.
If we're being honest, racist jokes and comments used to be considered funny. Blazing Saddles was on many peoples' all-time great comedy lists for years. Jokes about rednecks, Jews, black people, Asians, white people, and folks of different religions were popular when I was in high school. "Gay" was a common derogatory label.
Some people come from places, cultures, or families that just have not evolved as much. I'm NOT making excuses for Fromm, who made a racist statement. I am hoping that, even during the hardest of times, we make room for compassion not only for victims of racism, but for those who were raised in racist cultures or have not learned the decency to respect people of all different types.
But Fromm made a racist comment--albeit in a private conversation--and it is getting called out. And I think that's generally good, because it well help people realize that even "casual" racism is not okay. That's a lesson I had to learn.
What I'm trying to say, and maybe not doing a very good job with, is that Fromm should have to answer for this, but that I also believe it's okay for us to be compassionate with people who are still learning how to be great humans. It's not easy.
I do hope Fromm doesn't lose his career over this.
Good points - thanks for the reply
You bring up some really good points. The main issue I have with this whole thing is everyone is so emotional over racism right now that I don't see Fromm receiving the amount of forgiveness that would be justified for a private conversation getting leaked from 15 months ago over what to him was considered a joke, regardless of the severity of the joke.
I guarantee that if every NFL player's phones over the last 5 years would be made public and every derogatory or racist comment was posted on a wall, every single player would have something to apologize for, both black and white.
I grew up in communities that were about 98% white, dated a couple black girls, but because I did not grow up around their culture I have never really found black culture comfortable. I also never grew up in New York or Australia or Paris, so I have never found those cultures comfortable either. It isn't a race thing for me - It is an understanding thing for me.
Not understanding a particular culture is not racism, but it can be deliberate avoidance due to uncomfortability and a lack of understanding (we as humans typically seek out comfort and follow paths or people that fit our own cultures or personalities). These events have opened up my eyes to instead of just not really caring much or not stepping out of my comfort zone to embrace people I feel like I don't share similar cultures with, I now feel like it's my duty to get out of my comfort zone just to make sure any individuals that don't share my same belief structure, skin color, or background all know that people who are different than them do accept them and appreciate them as well as the fact that I just need to educate myself better.
Not saying this is Jake Fromm's issue, but I know for a fact that most of the people playing the holier than thou card and chastising him for that comment are being very hypocritical. There has to be an element of grace if we are ever going to get fully past the damage of racism.
If every private conversation I've had was made public I would have been murdered years ago. I suspect many of us would be.