Isiah Hole: No New Evidence Was Found; Michigan's Move Today Doesn't Make Sense

Submitted by WalterWhite_88 on November 16th, 2023 at 11:22 PM

Isiah Hole just released his new podcast. Here are the highlights:

  • No new evidence was found, according to his multiple sources. There is no more evidence to be found related to the Stallions scandal. 
  • There continues to be no evidence that any coaches knew.
  • He is just as flabberghasted by Michigan giving in to the B1G as we are. He has no idea what is happening in relation to why Michigan gave in on the suspension, and his sources have gone "dark".
  • He says that Michigan gave in to the political hit-job.

https://youtu.be/kj0vxQ8KsY0?si=lbzBvvLvuik1Rlr4

Monkey House

November 17th, 2023 at 6:03 AM ^

He didn't help himself any with this podcast episode. You can believe your "insiders" and the info they are giving you, but if that info doesn't actually happen then you better have some humility and say hey I understand you guys might not believe what I say anymore or believe my insiders. I would feel that way too. But he didn't do that. He actually deflected. Not a good look for him.

NonAlumFan

November 17th, 2023 at 7:44 AM ^

I'm holding out hope that there is an ulterior motive that Michigan leadership decided on and is keeping close to the chest. Maybe UM was okay with the precedent being set that head coaches can be held responsible for any violations. Next step is to release the evidence that they have on OSU either before The Game or in the off-season to get Day suspended for the game/this postseason/next season. Surely swapping signs with other teams, giving money to recruits/players, paying for the PI that started this, etc. is worse than a violation for one staff member organizing a way to get the same information that every team has?

andrew_

November 17th, 2023 at 8:12 AM ^

I'm not interested in this ticky tack going after coaches to get an advantage crap. It's petty from any side, and it damages the sport. Any amount of injecting bullshit into the sport takes away from it. We've moved on from a simple war of words between rivals, and stepped it up to cloak and dagger, and it's sickening. 

sum1valiant

November 17th, 2023 at 8:42 AM ^

This. All of these suggestions of releasing dirt on our rivals just seem so juvenile and petty.  I don’t care what happens to Ryan Day, he’ll get his eventually. Our university, team, coach, fanbase, et al was just drug through the mud and we ultimately decided to lay down and take it…again.

Watching From Afar

November 17th, 2023 at 8:59 AM ^

Next step is to release the evidence that they have on OSU either before The Game or in the off-season to get Day suspended for the game/this postseason/next season. 

This stuff doesn't exist people. I kept using the word IF every time a "leak" came out saying Michigan had X, Y, and Z on this program and that program. If they aren't interested in using that to hold others accountable when it appears that they were held accountable by others "leaking" things (to the Big Ten, PIs, whoever) then it's pretty obvious all of this was bluster or just not provable. Michigan isn't swallowing this pill because they believe in the Big Ten and don't want to tear it down by taking other programs down with them. They just don't have the ability to do that in the first place.

That being said, they produced proof that their signs were stolen by other programs in a coordinated effort (something I can't believe people aren't pounding the table about) and that sign stealing in general is pretty straightforward given all of the camera angles that teams have access too (filming of the sidelines, the scoreboard which is showing the sideline, etc). This thing is overblown just based on what we've come to learn over the past month. Shit, most people didn't know you couldn't advance scout because you can in high school and the NFL.

Regardless, the "insiders" have to rely on their sources, that's all fine and good, but at this point it's pretty safe to say insiders don't really sense-check their sources and just repeat what they're hearing. And for that, they're not really useful in any meaningful way. If they're given "feelings" and "what we should do" type stories from people, that means nothing. Either have better sources, challenge what you're hearing, or be ignored.

TheDirtyD

November 16th, 2023 at 11:26 PM ^

It does make sense.

 

Going into the TRO hearing, you run the risk of losing. You run the risk of dragging this out into a lawsuit and discovery, and you never let the fox into the hen house. Michigan effectively ends this as the Big Ten stops investigating. The NCAA may not have the power to suspend him for this as it's on the record of how it feels about in-person advance scouting, and is it even against the NCAA rules? The BigTen had the sportsmanship out as a way to take a chunk of him. Michigan is most likely going to win out, and the drama about Harbaugh coaching doesn't go into the actual playoff games. Michigan gets the big ten to admit he did nothing, and they'll stop pursuing this matter. Big Ten gets Harbaugh off their sidelines.

TheDirtyD

November 17th, 2023 at 8:17 AM ^

The NCAA has conducted an investigation, taking laptops and cell phones, interviewing people, and analyzing other evidence it has. That in and of itself is an investigation. The NCAA, I guarantee you, has shared this with the Big Ten.

 

The new evidence would have to be something new like we found out a Coach was paying for all this, or something of significance. Finding out more info of the same nature isn't going to change the severity of this. Thus, the investigation ends. 

Steve Breaston…

November 17th, 2023 at 3:03 AM ^

Argue to who? Present which new “facts” to a board that doesn’t exist? Us caving validated TP’s wide-reaching Judge Dredd power more in the future than ever. I love that you think that if something new shows up this is going to magically go through due process and some trial. We are literally playing by the rules of Who’s Line Is It Anyway

Eng1980

November 17th, 2023 at 7:43 AM ^

You are right but I would say that Michigan recognized the TP has Judge Dredd powers at the moment and the correct legal action is to rewrite the Big 10 contract or leave the Big 10.  Michigan recognized that the courts are not going to solve a problem we created by joining the Big 10.  TP is is morally bankrupt and deserves what is about to happen to him, but it will as part of the next issue not this one.

GoBlue-Pittsburgh

November 17th, 2023 at 12:08 AM ^

I think Tony Petitti and the Big Ten had egg on their face after handing down this sentence. ESPN supported them but plenty of other national news outlets (like SI and Fox Sports) did not as well as plenty of their talking heads (Wilbon, Howard, I did not see Herbstreit state anything in particular but I doubt he liked it). Especially if Michigan keeps winning. It just makes them look like whiny babies. And don't forget Petitti still needs to contend with any potential fallout about putting it in writing that sign stealing can cause injuries. 

3PG

November 16th, 2023 at 11:36 PM ^

Agree. Also, if Michigan does have any ammunition against our rivals, as has been hinted at over the last couple weeks, it seems like it would make more sense to wait until after the season when all this drama subsides. Escalation is the natural instinct but playing the long game is much more effective in my opinion.

Have no idea if Michigan actually has anything they're going to pursue (we did hear they hired an investigative firm, no?) but I really hope they do.

FB Dive

November 17th, 2023 at 12:56 AM ^

How could delaying our counterattack to the offseason possibly be advantageous? 

Let's just assume Michigan's mythical binder on OSU is real and they leak it all in February. That gives OSU and the Big Ten half a year to do nothing and let the media lose interest. The story will have died on its own by Week 1 of 2024, and OSU will get away with no punishment. Even if they do get punished, it's a punishment for their non-conference games. Meanwhile, Harbaugh was forced to sit out for our most important 3-game stretch.

I'll believe we have dirt when we release it. Seems like the only arrow in our quiver was the AP report on the OSU/Rutgers/Purdue collusion to decode our signs. And that was a bombshell that should have exposed the Big Ten's hypocrisy, but sadly the suspension and aborted TRO have drawn all the attention away from that.

GoBlue-Pittsburgh

November 17th, 2023 at 12:12 AM ^

If they did not contradict the official Michigan statement that they were closing the investigation, well, first of all that's weird Michigan said it if they didn't have some statement supporting that and then also the Big Ten will look like they went back on their word because they did not contradict it and everyone is reporting it as the end of the investigation by the Big Ten. Something really egregious would have to come out I think. 

tigerd

November 17th, 2023 at 12:13 AM ^

They have actually said to the contrary. I believe they said this is the end of it unless the NCAA can prove other coaches were involved. It’s getting harder and harder to believe nobody else new how some of these signs were being gathered. If somehow that could be proven things will definitely escalate with both the NCAA and the B10.

DennisFranklinDaMan

November 17th, 2023 at 12:03 AM ^

But ... but ... [insert conspiracy theory and victimization narrative here]. 

I don't understand, especially with Harbaugh signing off on this, why everyone is so angry. I think people here had convinced themselves we were going to get ... what? A court ruling that says we did nothing wrong and then an apology from the nation's media? Come on. 

This is good, people. We can focus on the actual football, we suffer no penalties that might imperil our national championship hopes, Harbaugh certainly doesn't admit to any personal wrong-doing, he's back for the Big Ten Championship game and the playoffs, and the team can continue to use this as fuel and motivation. And now, if we do have dirt on other programs, we can find the right time to release it. I honestly don't see the downside, except, perhaps, for our pride.

Fuck it. Let's move on, and get that national championship. Go Blue.

KentuckianaWolverine

November 17th, 2023 at 12:48 AM ^

There's nothing good about Michigan not even trying to stop the 3 day suspension......that they PUBLICLY said that they were going to fight (SEVERAL times).  The conference got EXACTLY what it wanted.  Michigan is actually in a WORSE position than they were last Friday, because they essentially just admitted that they did something wrong.....without an investigation being completed.  Any non Michigan fan IMMEDIATELY now assumes that, "well, I guess they are guilty and are cheaters".

There's nothing good about Michigan's head coach not coaching for it's 1,000th win, or coaching against OSU, during our best chance for a national championship, since 1997.

Spin the narrative all you want, but there's NOTHING good about this.  Just shows that the Michigan athletic department continues to be a bunch of spineless fools, who are the ONLY athletic department that would allow this kind of shit to happen.

Tennessee had 200 violations, and 18 (!!!!) of those were level 1.  They got nothing for that.  Yet, Michigan just continues to bend over and take it.  Because.......reasons.

Makes me have flashbacks of the Ed Martin thing, and it's complete bullshit that it's happening again.

KentuckianaWolverine

November 17th, 2023 at 8:20 AM ^

Oh no!  Not a "show cause" for the Head Coach.  Oh the horror!  Yeah, that seems like a totally fair punishment for over 200 violations.....where 18 of them were level 1.

Give me a break.  Michigan just lost their head coach for the 3 most important games of the season, because the conference wanted it to happen.  Michigan has lost it's head coach for 6 games this season (and potentially more) for the dumbest shit, and Michigan just rolled over and showed their belly.

If any team should have gotten the "death penalty", then it should have been them.  Yet, there they were just a couple of years later a win away from going to the playoffs.

Tennessee (along with their government) threatened to sue, and the NCAA ran away.  Michigan does the exact opposite, and just eat shit (with a smile, like they won the moral ground).  It's bullshit.

GoBlue-Pittsburgh

November 17th, 2023 at 12:03 AM ^

This has been my (admittedly hopeful since I would never have guessed what a cluster this all turned into) take as well. I don't see the NCAA as out for blood on this. Think of all of those teams who voted against fixing sign stealing a few years back. If some kind of big punishment comes down in the future there will be hell to pay left and right from various wealthy boosters hiring PI firms and more investigating into coaches swapping info. I hope I don't have rose colored glasses on but I have not seen any sign of the NCAA overreacting or freaking out about this. 

UMLaw1997

November 17th, 2023 at 12:04 AM ^

Yes.  Plus, when the NCAA finishes its investigation -- and the NCAA has a rule that the HC is responsible for everything in the program -- there is a time-served argument for UM that the conference already doled out the punishment.  And, given that this is really just a Saturday ban rather than a full coaching ban, that might be a good deal down the road. 

I do not understand the capitulation narrative.  You can always lose a motion or a case, and it is generally better not to lose.  Plus, the conference investigation is over and there are no more conference punishments coming this season. 

GoBlue-Pittsburgh

November 17th, 2023 at 12:17 AM ^

I had the exact same thought re time served. 

Something that struck me about the legal issue was that it is clear now that the only point to UM was getting the TRO. I thought the TRO was unlikely as soon as we beat PSU.  It is hard to argue irreparable harm when you are 4-0 without Harbaugh on the sidelines. So maybe these negotiations started sooner than it seems like to us. If Michigan got the Big Ten to back off then dropping the actual lawsuit makes sense. Because it's pretty clear that outside of anonymous quotes it is primarily the Big Ten that is out for blood. 

GoBlue-Pittsburgh

November 17th, 2023 at 12:21 AM ^

Petitti is not a god. He must have gotten HUGE pushback for the stealing signals leads to injuries statement. And he definitely got pushback in the national media for what he did in general. People without blinders on can see he jumped to action before an investigation was complete. I doubt the NCAA is happy either. For all we know he is desperately trying to hold onto his job, and the NCAA may be coming down on him. In the era of now we know what concussions do and CTE does football really need any more bad publicity regarding causing injuries in college kids?

GoBlue-Pittsburgh

November 17th, 2023 at 1:32 AM ^

I was referring to what Petitti said. He certainly was concerned that successful sign stealing would lead to injuries. Since it is legal to steal signs that leaves us with quite the question. You are missing my point completely. I KNOW the NCAA is not worried about it. But Petitti has opened a potential can of worms for any kids injured in a game if they can prove sign stealing successfully occurred in that game. You really think the NCAA is happy he said that in an era where many are convinced football is too dangerous of a sport? I am speaking legally in terms of the can of worms he opened by saying that. Now a possible and indeed even likely defense is no one believed Petitti and no one thinks he knows anything about it. But none of that leaves him in a good spot as Big Ten Commissioner. Given that it was his reason for laying down the hammer so fast. You can all downvote me all you want but like I said he is not god and that gaffe just proves it more. 

Perkis-Size Me

November 17th, 2023 at 6:27 AM ^

But are you so sure that this is where the B1G just stops pursuing?

I mean…maybe with this specific issue, fine, but what about the next time they all decide they want another pound of flesh? I’m no insider, but it sure feels like Michigan set a bad precedent that whenever the next time the rest of the conference wants to gang up on Michigan, they’ll be able to, because they have a commissioner who will enable and listen to them, and Michigan will ultimately give into it anyway.

Maybe the drama is done this year, but who’s to say we’re not going to go through the ringer again next year? 

I sure hope Michigan got something in return for all of this, because it sure seemed like they were ready to go to war less then 24 hours ago. And then all of a sudden out of nowhere, they waive the white flag. 

maizenbluenc

November 17th, 2023 at 7:59 AM ^

I think Harbaugh chooses or has chosen to go because of this. The rest of the B1G will continue to persecute with him here.

I am so mad at the conference right now, and will be furious if we lose to OSU because Sherrone cannot focus on the offensive play calling between series, and Harbaugh is not in the field.

Speed_in_Space

November 16th, 2023 at 11:27 PM ^

Part of me is afraid that Harbaugh is done with the college game and is propping up Moore as his successor. But none of this makes sense to me unless the law firm told them to take a deal or Moore is being set up as the successor.