Does Howards’s behavior begin to become a problem?
I know many of you don’t follow twitter so I’m sorry in advance. I’m sure many have seen this but I just wonder how long can Howard act unhinged and survive after last year? He clearly has trouble handling his emotions and when Bufkin pulls him back and around his shoulder hits KB’s chin and clearly says get the F off me or some variation. I have been a 100% supporter of Juwan, my profile pic will prove it. However, after last year how much wiggle room is left? Especially with the team kind of underperforming does Warde take a look? Probably not with his track record of letting things go. What say you all?
https://twitter.com/mikelacett/status/1605771652683399169?s=61&t=71YKMUUbP3gdp1XipDLvKw
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:39 PM ^
THERE IS A DOUBLE STANDARD! That's what people refuse to say. But it's ok. Juwan will be fine. Him and his family. People always want to JUDGE a person based on one or two or even three so-called occasions but a coach after 25-30 years grabs a player, he's still,"so" passionate. Give me a @:$4@!! break.
December 22nd, 2022 at 8:39 PM ^
What are you talking about? This entire board is supporting Juwan while crucifying Izzo for the exact same behavior. The truth is that Juwan is acting out in the exact way that we trash Izzo for.
December 23rd, 2022 at 1:33 AM ^
This entire board? You're high!
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:04 PM ^
I mean this stuff is so routine. I understand Juwan had the slap last year and was appropriately suspended for it, but this idea that he is particularly unhinged (in these other mild cases) seems like a strange narrative full of confirmation bias. None of the other 'incidents' would even make this kind of compilation
And these are recent examples ... never mind Bobby Knight throwing chairs and John Chaney threatening to kill Calipari
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:27 PM ^
I think that calling this "unhinged" is a bit of an overstatement, but I do get your point. This is becoming something of a pattern and it needs to stop. At a minimum, it's a bad look.
I have zero issue with Juwan getting in the faces of officials, slamming a clipboard, arguing calls or even getting a T (or ejected) to pump up his team, but this is different. This is him acting like an ass to his own players.
If Izzo did this, we would be all over it saying that he is an angry elf, an ass, etc.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:31 PM ^
The fact that people seem to legitimately have to hold him back... is a problem. We can spin it how we want, but if he wasn't held back against Wisky last year, is he still our coach?
Does he just get ejected last night if nobody steps in? Or does he fly off the handle?
I don't think we know and the fact that we can't say that we've seen his hot head limits - to me - is a problem.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
See my comment above - Steven Izzo had to do exactly the same thing with his father after Tom got a technical last night...
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:45 PM ^
If we have reached the point where "Izzo does it, too" is an answer to criticism, it's probably time to take a step back and reconsider the question.
People loved Bobby Knight until he stopped winning quite so much. I think the answer is that we accept it as just part of the game until Michigan starts missing the NCAA tournament. At least, that's how I feel about it, reluctantly.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:48 PM ^
Did Tom try to get away from his son and say ‘get the fuck off me’? If he did, then it’s the same issue and both are equally at fault. But, it doesn’t look like it. That’s my issue. Get pissed at the refs, it’s part of the game. Don’t take it out on a player trying to talk sense into you. This is exactly the type of thing anger management is for and it doesn’t seem to have helped Juwan.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:48 PM ^
That goon coach roughly put his hands on two Michigan players and wasn't disciplined at all. Juwan should've handled it better but it wasn't like entirely inexcusable.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:44 PM ^
Nobody "had" to hold Juwan back. This didn't even merit a technical, let alone an ejection.
If last year's incident had never occured, this wouldn't even have been noted as anything more than a run of the mill coach--yelling-at-ref event.
But because of last year, it'll become a media narrative every time Juwan so much as furrows his brow in someone's direction.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:29 PM ^
Behavior / winning = tolerance.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:31 PM ^
Should be noted that the curve is more parabolic than linear.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:31 PM ^
i wasn't watching closely last night and missed this part. not a great look. this article was sent to me by a long-time buddy, not a michigan grad but who roots for us. his comment was 'how long does this guy get to coach?'
link: https://nypost.com/2022/12/22/juwan-howard-flips-out-in-michigans-loss-to-unc-video/
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
Wow! The comments on the NY Post column are straight out of the George Wallace playbook. It's scary how these people have been allowed to crawl out of the woodwork into today's society.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:54 PM ^
1) Don't read the Post
2) Don't link to the Post
3) Don't ever read the comment section of The Post. It is the dregs of society. [I broke my own rule and read several of them and holy smokes- they are DISGUSTING. As someone in the comments said this article was entirely race-bait for the NYP's legions of comment trolls. Neither Michigan nor UNC are in the media market and the only reason to run it is to trash Juwan and give NYP readers something racist to flip out over.]
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:49 PM ^
As long as he doesn't threaten violence or act out he can coach. I'm over last year, and this is no last year.
Some people might be intimidated by Juwan's size, demeanor or skin color. We need to treat him the same. In fact, we need to call out haters here. He was being a basketball coach, nothing more.
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:31 PM ^
Keyword:your friend
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:40 PM ^
not sure what that implies. go ahead, spit it out.
December 22nd, 2022 at 5:25 PM ^
It's already on this blog,"buddy!"
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
In literally this exact same game, Hubert Davis went 100% unhinged and off the hook but nobody seems to care about that. The microscope is on Juwan, and understandably so after last season, however you can't dissect Juwan while disregarding the Hubert Davis crazy ass behavior.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:41 PM ^
Whataboutism is the worst. It doesn’t have to be either or. Furthermore, I wasn’t excusing Hubert Davis by pointing out what Juwan did. If I recall Hubert was barking at officials and running down the sideline not having to be restrained.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:34 PM ^
And IF the refs had done something about Hubert's minutes-long tirade (watch it again - it went on for a while and actually caused the game to be delayed for a bit)... there is NO quadruple technical. UNC played out of that emotion big time. Bacot slammed his shoulder and elbow into Kobe (should've been an offensive foul), right before Love pushed HD's knee, who was crowding him after the foul.
Because the refs let Hubert go, the game changed from a physical one to a petty one and the whistles followed. Heels got the benefit of about 5 minutes of 50/50 calls. The emotion of that stirred up in Juwan and the frustrations got the better of him later.
In the end, Juwan would NEVER get the leash Hubert did last night. He wouldn't been T'd up in a fraction of the time. He knows it, too. Probably part of the frustration.
December 22nd, 2022 at 6:37 PM ^
This is such a homer take here. Lol Hunter literally knees love in the head after he pushes his knee away. He also hit Bacot in the face earlier. That whole segment changed the trajectory of that game and killed our momentum.
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:21 PM ^
If it matters any, I wasn't specifically calling you out. I should've made it clear that I was pointing my comment at the Twitter users that are up in arms about Juwan but make no mention of Hubert Davis' behavior and how he was the one that initially lit up the refs and amp'd up his players with his sideline tirade. Davis didn't help to cool the angst between the two sides.
December 22nd, 2022 at 6:39 PM ^
I get it 100%. Thank you for that. You are usually great to interact with. I apologize for coming off like a jerk.
December 22nd, 2022 at 9:08 PM ^
No problem, Mayor. After I made my statement I realized it was totally a "whatabout" but I took issue with the UNC fans attacking Juwan when their coach literally poured gasoline on the fire.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
Watch every D1 college coach - if you can find one that doesn't get fairly animated once every few games at least, please let me know. Even the saints like UVA coach Tony Bennett raise their voices, and get after the refs. It goes with the territory. That said, you have to be EXTREMELY careful about physical contact and language with your own players. We aren't in Bobby Knight's world anymore
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:35 PM ^
He’s learned nothing from the Wisconsin incident. His temper is concerning. He needs to take a beat and count to ten…
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:36 PM ^
Basketball coaches scream and yell all the time. Not seeing the issue here. If he’s slapping a coach or starting an altercation with a coach, that’s one thing but yelling at an official is not the same.
I personally wouldn’t do that sort of thing if I was a coach but coaches get upset and gripe at officials. It’s sort of a part of the game. I don’t have a problem when Howard does it and I honestly don’t harp on Izzo when he does it.
Everyone gets testy over calls.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:37 PM ^
I don't care about mgo points and I've been saying this already. He should of been relieved after assaulting another coach, but apparently that's an unpopular opinion. I guess we have to have the on court performance reach a level of unacceptability before his behavior becomes a "problem."
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:40 PM ^
You don't care about reading and writing either, so who cares. Make sure your glass house never gets asswaulted!!!
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:45 PM ^
I agree with you about last year. This however is nothing like last year. Davis had a similar tirade same game. Juwan has a strike, but he doesn't have to act any different than any other coach in the game. As long as he doesn't threaten violence, or much worse, act out, we need to treat him the same as all other coaches in the game.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:51 PM ^
Well, i found the other guy here who agrees with me. He should have lost his job last year. Ironically, for those that think we should *lose more* first... don't worry, seems like its happening.
Firing him for that was the right move, whether that hurt us or not.
But that is a super unpopular opinion around here. But if Izzo HIT another coach, we would have 19 threads about him, rather than just today's 6.
December 23rd, 2022 at 8:14 AM ^
If Izzo hit another coach would he notice?
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:19 PM ^
What you are saying is spot on.
In an ideal world, conduct, on its own, can lead to consequences. As an example, hitting another coach = firing.
In reality, these things are ALWAYS viewed through the lens of what value a coach brings to his team weighed against the coach's negative conduct.
So, for example, if Nick Saban allowed a player to play while possibly concussed, it's highly unlikely that he would be fired because he consistently wins, recruits at the highest level and has brought his program unprecedented success. When 4th year Brady Hoke does the same thing, it's used as part of the reason to relieve him of his duties.
If Juwan were winning consistently and had Michigan bball ranked in the top 10, the fanbase would be jumping to his defense and it would be unlikely that this would result in anything more than a passing story. But, Juwan's team is struggling mightily for the second year in a row (this season, far worse than last), so he has far less leeway on incidents like this. I don't see this leading to Juwan being fired, but between this incident, what happened last year and the absolute dumpster fire that is our current roster and overall play, his seat may be starting to warm up a bit.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:38 PM ^
Please resign.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:39 PM ^
All I can say is I am glad football is back to some relevancy because I was on the Howard has to go after "Slapgate" wagon. Was a varsity coach of hoops for 15 years love hoops season just find myself kind of taking a step back from investing in the hoop team for some reason. I know the slapgate take won't be received well here and I get it. I just don't see how the head coach of any institution can do that and get a second chance. I am not against second chances at all either just not sure this is second chance allowable. Last night seemed to be the limit of what he's going to be able to push and he is forever going to be questioned when he has a tirade and that kind of proves my point I think. The years of taking less and doing more are over. I used to love watching the JB teams improve and evolve throughout the year.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
lol "slapgate"
Seeing far too many jackasses act like Howard Will Smith'd the circumcised dick from Wisconsin.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:39 PM ^
That's like a 4.5 on the Izzo scale....
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:39 PM ^
1) In this era, yes it can be a problem. Back in the day Bobby knight was a complete abusive piece of shit and was praised for being a "disciplinarian." Howard is not an abusive pos, but times are different and anything deemed overly passionate will be deemed UNACCEPTABLE.
2) He's black. Izzo has been acting like a petulant child for years and is seen as "passionate" and "Mr. March" just cares so much about his kids, etc. The narrative around Izzo's antics pre the refs and shitting on his own players would be completely different if he was black.
3) He's a former UM player part of the FAB 5 - a program many have tried to frame as "rogue" and "thugs" for simply wearing long shorts and taking $ like every other program was engaged in at the time.
4) He put himself on thin ice for smacking an opposing coach and nearly starting a post game . brawl. That's 100% on him and he'll need to own that and be more careful with everything he does going forward. He's obviously under the microscope.
TLDR- Juwan has unfair baggage due to race and new era of 24/7 media coverage - he'll probably be forced to tone it down, even if isn't currently doing anything that crazy or out of the ordinary. He also place himself in this situation with the postgame slap of the opposing coach.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:46 PM ^
Let’s not forget the weird interaction he had with Mark Turgeon
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
This is admittedly a low bar, but to add to what you said, Coach Howard is the Buddha compared to Bobby Knight.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
So is Howard only being criticized and carrying “unfair baggage” because he’s black? Or did he “put himself on thin ice for smacking an opposing coach and nearly starting a post game brawl?”
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:28 PM ^
I honestly don't think that Juwan is being unfairly treated because he is black. He hit an opposing coach and had to be restrained by his team in the process. That is an offense that can lead to firing regardless of skin color. On this topic, I think that most of the media coverage of Juwan has been that BECAUSE he is black and came from a humble family, he has the ability to better relate to many top prospects and their families. I don't see many in the M fanbase accusing Juwan of bring an "angry black man," just of being an "angry man" just as we say about Izzo.
I also don't think that the fanbase is treating him negatively because of him being a part of the Fab 5. Almost every fan that I know is completely on the side of the Fab 5 and thinks that they got a raw deal for doing what everyone else was also doing. In fact, I think that him being a Fab 5 member, AND bringing the Fab 5 back into the fold of M basketball, has actually endeared him to the fans.
The Comparison to Bobby Knight isn't a fair one. Totally different eras. Bobby Knight got away with shit that today would get him fired because times were different. That is true of so many aspects of society; what was acceptable only a few decades ago just wouldn't fly today.
Bottom line, Juwan's incident in which he slapped an opposing coach put him under a good deal of scrutiny. That is on him. Even if last night's incident is nothing major, knowing that he is under said scrutiny, Juwan needs to have the self discipline and common sense not to fuel the perception that he is a hot head who can't keep it together.
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:14 PM ^
Not just black...
6'11 former NBA player
Former Fab five player that have been referred to as "thugs" forever
Inner city background, fiery coach
He was already carrying that baggage.
He also did himself no favor with the postgame altercation.
Both can be true. He can both be under unfair, excessive scrutiny due to race and Fab 5 biases, and also have made the situation worse by slapping an opposing coach. It doesn't have to be binary.
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:21 PM ^
Howard’s situation has nothing to do with being black. If a white coach had slapped an opposing coach, he would’ve taken at least as much heat. If that white coach was allowed to keep his job, any subsequent displays of temper, like Howard having to be restrained and then directing his anger at one of his own players, would be just as closely scrutinized.
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:34 PM ^
You my dear Watson, are clueless.
December 22nd, 2022 at 4:16 PM ^
Add in the sentiment that his teams are/have been underperforming and I think you've nailed the crux of the reasons people are taking issue with this incident. It's never just one thing, but rather a multitude of factors.