Does Howards’s behavior begin to become a problem?
I know many of you don’t follow twitter so I’m sorry in advance. I’m sure many have seen this but I just wonder how long can Howard act unhinged and survive after last year? He clearly has trouble handling his emotions and when Bufkin pulls him back and around his shoulder hits KB’s chin and clearly says get the F off me or some variation. I have been a 100% supporter of Juwan, my profile pic will prove it. However, after last year how much wiggle room is left? Especially with the team kind of underperforming does Warde take a look? Probably not with his track record of letting things go. What say you all?
https://twitter.com/mikelacett/status/1605771652683399169?s=61&t=71YKMUUbP3gdp1XipDLvKw
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:24 PM ^
it already is. the team is bad. he's got a hot head. those two things lead to bad outcomes. be a grumpy malcontent if you like but the coaching has been poor. the play is poor.
The nice guy flipping to "out of control" is a personality trait, not a "one time issue"... itll probably get worse as they hit b10 season and we start losing more.
I think Jett should go pro and we should restart next year - but that wont happen and everyone will tell me how that's a terrible idea while we toil in relative mediocrity for 2-3 more years.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:33 PM ^
I don’t remember what game, maybe Virginia or Kentucky but he literally hit Jett’s hand out of his face and sent him to the bench after he got a quick foul. Jett was trying to explain and Juwan wasn’t having it. I rewound it and couldn’t believe that he’d do that to his kid in front of the team. I’m starting to see things that look like they could be a problem. That’s my opinion.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:41 PM ^
We agree. He also has a history pre-Michigan of this too. I'm not one to judge, because I'm a hothead too, but like you said... its a pattern of small blips with 1-2 larger blips.
Bobby Knight went too far 25 years ago after decades of angry and aggressive behavior. And that was back then..
Also, Knight won a lot.
So while performance and behavior SHOULDN'T be intertwined, saying they aren't is naive. They are 100% intertwined. Its why Hugh Freeze still gets jobs. Its why Ray Rice was only out of the league once they realized he couldn't play anymore. Its why Joe Mixon punches a woman - and when I google it, it doesn't come up unless I type the full sentence. Nobody says people have to pay for their entire lives for bad decisions. But Juwan seems to have a pattern and it isn't improving.
Good luck watching him keep his cool against MSU @Breslin.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:41 PM ^
I love how you act like we've already been in mediocrity for years and not half a season where we lost 2 point guards and are forced to a true freshman.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:42 PM ^
No. You lie. You don't love it. But you should
We have been on a downhill slide a bit - last year we went to the sweet 16. K. we won 2 games in March. The rest of the season we looked pretty bad. We barely even made it INTO the tournament. To say that was the quality we have come to expect is ridiculous.
Beilein had built a machine here. Its slowly come apart. I don't know how you guys watch how this team plays and think it is ANYWHERE NEAR where we were 5 years ago.
EDIT: And more importantly, where do you see it going? You see this team raring up for a run? You see big time recruits coming in and helping us turn the corner? Where? Will we ever have another PG who can play PG and a SG who can shoot on this roster?
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:47 PM ^
College basketball is all about March. Barely getting in the tourney is a problem when it leads to a poor tourney performance. If you make the Sweet 16, what you did in the regular season really doesn't matter much.
As for Beilein, I was (and remain) a big fan of his, but he had off years. Even in some of his better years, we often started slowly. There were many "Fire Beilein" threads around here. This one was posted just over two years before he left for the NBA.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:55 PM ^
By that definition, only 1 basketabll team has a successful season every year? Cmon..
Win the B10
Win the B10 tourney
Beat your rivals
Make the tourney
Make a tourney run
Those are the annual goals. Slowly we are doing less of these. Also, there's something to be said for the aesthetic of the game and having a team that you ENJOY watching. This team is unwatchable even when they are winning (in-game). Last year's team as well.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:17 PM ^
By that definition, only 1 basketabll team has a successful season every year? Cmon.
How you get that idea from my post?
Your season is primarily defined by how you do in March, but that doesn't mean "national title or bust." There are two programs that that have made five consecutive Sweet 16s: Michigan and Gonzaga. That's good company to be in.
But as for your criteria (and let me reiterate that I am a big Beilein fan):
-Beilein won two Big Ten titles in 13 years. One was outright and the other was a three-way tie when we went 13-5.
-Beilein won two BTTs in 13 years.
-Beilein had losing records against both MSU and OSU. In his final season (2018-19), MSU went 3-0 against us.
-Beilein missed the tourney three times, and needed late-season rallies a few other times to sneak in.
-Beilein did do well in the tourney, which as I've said is what legacies are primarily built on.
Take away the NCAA tournament, and here are Beilein's season records at Michigan and his Big Ten finish:
10-22 (9th)
20-13 (7th)
15-17 (7th)
20-13 (4th)
24-9 (T-1st)
26-7 (4th)
25-8 (1st)
16-16 (9th)
22-12 (8th)
24-11 (5th)
28-7 (4th)
28-6 (3rd)
Without those thrilling NCAA runs, you're looking at a guy who finished in the top three of the conference three times in 13 years. Fortunately, the tournament is what matters.
December 22nd, 2022 at 4:42 PM ^
Ok, but beilein took this team from 15 years of epic garbage to heights we've never really seen.
I get what you're saying, but beilein raised expectations, and now you're telling me that winning two games in March absolves Howard of poor roster construction, bad coaching and overall bad play for the other 30 games?
Juwan, for sake of making a point, was born on 3rd base. John b was born on little league nose picker at the bat against Tom Seaver
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:56 PM ^
TRVB, I'm sure I am in the minority here, but I agree with everything you are saying. I really wish JB hadn't left for the Cleveland job. Covid year aside, I find JH's teams hard to watch, and I don't like his outbursts. And let's be fair, there will be 5+ OPs on this here blog about Tom Izzo outbursts this season. However, those same people seem to be willing to let it slide with JH.
December 22nd, 2022 at 5:27 PM ^
Stop with the whataboutism, false equivalency, etc.. Whatever last night was is nothing like what Tom Izzo does. How many clips do you need? Is this enough? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p9ywXDlQno
We can repeatedly point at Izzo and criticize, acknowledge that Juwan can't slap UW coach, and agree that last night was not a thing, all at the same time. And we can do it with nuance to discuss which things are bigger deals than other things without acting like every coach who screams has the same amount of anger problem
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:29 PM ^
You are clueless. You come out and talk about a coach that has more freshman than any other team possibly in the BIG10. And he's actually 7-4 and he actually has them finally playing better ever since the Llewelyn injury. But it's just a blog and you have zero credibility when it comes to whether or not Howard is a capable coach. That's not what you're addressing here. Some people love to talk about crap even when they couldn't do half of the job that a person qualified is already doing.
December 22nd, 2022 at 4:13 PM ^
This is easy to look up so maybe you shouldn't be so dogmatic. UM has 6 Freshman on their roster right now. There are 4 teams with either more or the same number of Freshman in the B1G.
Nebraska: 9
OSU: 7
Purdue: 7
Minnesota: 6
Michigan 6
As you said " But it's just a blog and you have zero credibility"
December 22nd, 2022 at 5:21 PM ^
Hey Sherman, look up the word possibly. But that's what I have you for to check my guess not a fact. So yeah, take that Dogma and I'll raise you one.
December 22nd, 2022 at 4:16 PM ^
Purdue is ranked number 1 right now with more freshman.
Nebraska has a worse record (Played more games, same win count)
OSU better record
Minnesota worse record
December 22nd, 2022 at 4:46 PM ^
Seriously?? This is what we're debating? Whether a Michigan fan could run the team better than juwan Howard? Take it down a notch.
Stop making excuses about the roster. It's been poorly constructed. They looked bad before the injury, they look bad now. They arguably look better, so don't tell me that the injury is the reason we haven't taken off.
The team doesn't do much well, and this is a debate about whether this coach can handle 1) the pressure of the job 2) winning at this level.
I'm not seeing a resounding yes to either yet
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:32 PM ^
I appreciate what Beilein did for the program, but he also chose to leave. He did so because he didn’t like how the game was changing.
Howard is the coach now. He’s working his butt off in an environment Beilein decided he couldn’t handle. Pining for how things were under Beilein is somewhat ridiculous at this point.
In today’s game, there are very few teams who can handle a major injury to the PG. Llewelyn was struggling, but like the transfer guards before him, I expected Llewelyn to adapt and become competent over the course of the season. It will be difficult to watch the team learn how to win, but I’m confident they will by the end of the season. Whether it’s enough to get them in the tournament, only time will tell. But that is the standard at Michigan and that is what Howard will need to live up to year after year.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:41 PM ^
It's easy to coach when things are easy. True character shows when things get tough.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:43 PM ^
Correctamundo.
Shit goes south and the nice guy routine turns into rage. Not the maize kind.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:24 PM ^
Fair questions. That was not a great look.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:31 PM ^
Meh -- Izzo had the same thing with a tech yesterday where his son had to pull him back. Optics are worse due to the incident last year and the fact that he is very large man instead of a hobbit-sized troll.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:34 PM ^
Howard does have an anger issue, but the racial undertones that critics are employing to want to fire him are comically obvious.
Dude won a BIG championship and got to an Elite 8 and S1, yet people want him to jump off the plank.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:37 PM ^
Definitely no racial undertones here for sure. Just asking a question. The successes on the court does not excuse poor behavior. Hey I make good money and provide for my family but it’s ok to come at my wife in a hostile way? How is that expectation rascist?
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:49 PM ^
He never said your interpretation of things were racist…but you used twitter as an example. I was on there last night and they use coded words like “thug” & “unhinged” to describe Juwan and him getting upset with a ref. Yet in East Lansing last night Izzo was throwing his usual tirade and not much fuss was made about it but how silly he looked in his elf sweater. You can’t tell me you don’t see how that looks awkward.
December 22nd, 2022 at 6:27 PM ^
I honestly could care less what Izzo does and whether or not he gets a pass doesn’t excuse what Juwan has done or is doing. It’s not an either or issue. Both can be wrong. The whole blame game and whataboutism is weak.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:38 PM ^
Can we not try to ascribe this to 'racial undertones'? Juwan took a swing at another team's coach. He's on thin ice and rightfully so
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:58 PM ^
At that time, I was all for keeping him the coach of the team. As I look back, I think Ward probably should have let him go.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:35 PM ^
You are literally,"repeating what already happened!" A person cannot be judged over and over and over again about what he did last year. Yeah there's no racial undertones. Take one look, not two and search Juwan Howard. I promise you there are obvious behaviors that an IZZO can repeat year after year. Get's called a little elf. Guess what adjective Juwan has acquired. It's not even close. Juwan Howard knew what he was getting himself into. Hell they got,"HATE MAIL" while still playing at the University of Michigan. Yeah he's a gentle giant, that's what they're saying! GO BLUE
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:51 PM ^
So by your logic Juwan can never argue a call because of what happened in Madison last year?
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:42 PM ^
Yeah...it seems like a lot of coaches do this sort of thing. There are few Division 1 coaches who DO NOT have anger issues.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:53 PM ^
Very true. Some just tend to present themselves with more sanctimony, e.g. Coach K
Also I'm kinda tired of the "it's a bad look" take. It's a cop-out answer that avoids assessing whether something is truly a problem or not.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:24 PM ^
If I see someone yelling and screaming at their kid in public and making a scene that’s “a bad look.” If I see the same parent doing it repeatedly and then getting in fights it moves beyond a bad look and eventually that individual is categorized as unfit to parent probably both by society that sees it and also by those in authority to rightfully judge whether or not it is wrong. We’ve kind of moved past the former (bad look) to a pattern. And I don’t care if every coach does it. It doesn’t really excuse the behavior of our coach. A wise person told me a long time ago “time will tell” or “it will all come out in the wash”. Hopefully, it ends up being nothing. At least that’s my hope.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:22 PM ^
Fine, I'll say it-
with Beilein's players.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:58 PM ^
Amen. And maybe more importantly, with Beilein's guards.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:24 PM ^
These anger issue takes are ridiculous. I bet the Spurs considered canning Pop because he got ejected from 18 games when his "anger issues" occurred.
I also remember the Spurs having serious discussions about cutting David Robinson when he exploded on refs and was ejected. David Robinson definitely had serious anger issues. I can only hope he found the help he needed.
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:37 PM ^
Coach of the year as well
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:42 PM ^
We’ve all seen a lot of coaches get incensed with the refs and needing to be restrained by players or other coaches. I’m not sure I recall ever seeing a coach turn around tell the 20 yo player that was trying to restrain them to “gtf off” me. Does this look worse because of his two previous issues with opposing team coaches? Absolutely. The anger management classes didn’t do shit, that’s for sure.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:01 PM ^
If this exact situation involved Tom Izzo instead of JH, people wouldn't be defending or brushing off his behavior in any way. Take the maize glasses off people.
December 22nd, 2022 at 3:54 PM ^
Miss me with that shit…we have seen coaches literally grab and yank players by the jersey and yell at them. Juwan didn’t want to be touched and let that be known.
December 22nd, 2022 at 4:40 PM ^
I don’t know why we justify it by saying that Izzo does worse. We bash Izzo for being out of control angry all the time. It’s ok to say that neither coach’s behavior should be acceptable. Outside of basketball, look at this board’s opinions of Brian Kelly. We openly question why anybody would ever want to play for that asshat based on his behavior (also… he’s creepy and fake as hell).
I do think Howard has to do a better job of controlling his emotions, but mostly because I think we need him focused on the team and the next move in the game. Not blind with rage. I don’t know about you, but I’ve never flown off the handle and then after assessed that I made the best decisions while angry. We need his best decisions.
December 22nd, 2022 at 8:32 PM ^
We trash Izzo for the same exact behavior. You just pointed that out.
December 23rd, 2022 at 9:56 AM ^
What's this "we" shit? You only show up when you have something Michigan related to bitch about.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:25 PM ^
Another dumb Hawt take....UGH
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:28 PM ^
Care to expound on that? Or is it easier to just categorize as a fan as just a hot take?
December 22nd, 2022 at 8:34 PM ^
Those of us that point out the hypocrisy are rare. This is becoming MGORCMB
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:25 PM ^
The thing last year was bad. If that happens again, there'll need to be a reevaluation, but I don't think it will and this is not that at all. Also I don't think performance of the team comes into it at all on this.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:27 PM ^
Video doesn't seem like much to me ... I've seen coaches get this 'unhinged' hundreds of times. Tom Izzo alone probably has dozens.
December 22nd, 2022 at 1:42 PM ^
Izzo is white and is therefore "passionate"
Juwan is black and played for the Fab 5 and is therefore labeled a "th*g"
Let's not pretend there isn't a double standard.
December 22nd, 2022 at 2:21 PM ^
He’s also 6’11”.