Dan Wetzel's level headed take on SignGate
Dan Wetzel has the best take on this mess.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Maybe I am just paranoid now, but did it seem like the Purdue game camera crew spent a lot of time on shots that showed our play sheets? It is probably that I am just more aware of it now, but it seems like the cameras were focused on our coaches and had clear views of our play sheets.
November 8th, 2023 at 9:10 AM ^
They were too good at the overt smearing and didn't count on such success leaving Michigan no option but to fight back. Oopsy.
November 8th, 2023 at 9:31 AM ^
You know that those stupid f*ckers are sitting there pissing themselves in the B1G office this morning, trying to figure out how to proceed now! But would I be in the minority if I said that I'm half-hoping that they continue to double down? I think that it would be healthy if the public were forced to look all of this in the eye. A timeline of Big Ten duplicity and cheating, going back half a century of so, would be fascinating to read. And offer a much better-balanced picture to make some changes going forward.
Sweeping this under the rug or saying never mind, at this stage? 'Stoodis. 'Sgo!
November 8th, 2023 at 9:58 AM ^
I don't really think OSU is a totally rational actor right now. They are THE(TM) most spoiled fanbase in American sports having never experienced a serious downturn in their lives. Losing to Michigan twice in a row is an existential crisis for them and I think they - from Ryan Day all the way to the bottom - are desperate to change the trajectory of the rivalry which is why they are desperately clinging to this being a massive scandal instead of a technical rule violation.
I'm hoping they keep pressing their luck because I feel like they're gonna end up looking terrible by the end of it
November 8th, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^
Pay very careful attention to all actors showing their red ass on this. Many have been smoked out and this may be the best outcome yet. Since like Harbaugh's this will be remembered do not allow these folks a place to hide unsullied.
November 8th, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
Couldn't agree more. Assume for a moment that Pettiti backs down and announces they will wait for the NCAA investigation. Is it better for Michigan to 1) take a "you poked the bear" scorched earth approach; 2) sit quietly on the info they have and call it good; or 3) release selected dirty laundry on other schools while making it understood there is more there?
Personally, I think option 3 is the most effective. You forcefully hit back while making it clear that no one should ever try to try a stunt like this on them again. Peace through strength.
November 8th, 2023 at 8:19 AM ^
It's nice to see a voice of reason from the national media
Beat Penn State
November 8th, 2023 at 8:51 AM ^
100%. And here's the core point made in the article - rival coaches manipulated naive leadership into thinking a very benign action was the "worse than nearly any scandal in Big Ten history" when it was actually the exact same thing they themselves were doing.
Charlie Baker has been NCAA president since March. Tony Petitti has been Big Ten Commissioner since May. Neither has much experience with this stuff — Baker was a politician, Petitti mostly a television executive.
They didn’t know what they didn’t know. Together they opened Pandora’s Box.
Mostly they listened to football coaches who view one kind of advanced scouting as gamesmanship, and another as a kind of crime. The coaches’ reasoning? Sending around stolen signs and game plans is common practice, so they don’t care. What Connor Stalions did is apparently not so common, so they did care.
But who in their right mind would listen to such reasoning? Who would be so dumb to agree with it? Who would let the thieves define theft?
Football coaches are rarely deep thinkers. They aren’t spending time contemplating law, precedent, ethics or unintended consequences. They just want Jim Harbaugh gone.
November 8th, 2023 at 9:04 AM ^
"Rarely deep thinkers ... They just want Jim Harbaugh gone"
Same goes for much of the media as well.
E.g. that ridiculous Bruce Feldman "coaches poll" article exhibited zero deep thinking
November 8th, 2023 at 9:48 AM ^
Feldman should not be exempt from MgoBan status along with Thamel. He’s revealed himself to be a fucking idiot through all this
November 8th, 2023 at 12:32 PM ^
Agree. Idiocy and antagonism should both be criteria for MgoBan.
November 8th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
"But who in their right mind would listen to such reasoning? Who would be so dumb to agree with it? Who would let the thieves define theft?
Football coaches are rarely deep thinkers. They aren’t spending time contemplating law, precedent, ethics or unintended consequences. They just want Jim Harbaugh gone. "
Wetzel perfectly summarizes how the entire Michigan community has felt for the past two weeks. Finally, it comes from a reporter who the dullards in Ohio can't write off as a biased Michigan take (even though they'll still try). Props to Wetzel for telling it how it is instead of trying to drum up controversy for clicks. He has earned my respect.
November 8th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
Similar to your thought, I was thinking it’s very possible that this guy posts on (or reads) this message board. His summary of the situation includes pretty much all the things that have been said here by the MGoMembership over the past week or so.
November 8th, 2023 at 11:15 AM ^
Who would let the thieves define theft?
This HAS to be a College Game Day sign.
In fact, this has to be the ONLY College Game Day sign. It should be mass produced and given out to every single person who shows up.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:17 PM ^
I would also like to see a Princess Bride sign with "Sportsmanship. I do not think that word means what Pettiti thinks it means."
November 8th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^
Agreed. Not to excuse Petitti's lack of leadership, but he should be pissed at the other coaches and administrators. He's been misled by them and made to look foolish (although he is culpable for allowing himself to be misled). Petitti should convene another call and crack some heads together, threatening investigations of all B1G teams unless they immediately stop the orchestrated PR campaign/witch hunt targeting Harbaugh. This has made the conference look bad all around (people comparing B1G to the SEC fergodsakes) and made Petitti look weak.
November 8th, 2023 at 8:19 AM ^
Dan lives in SE MI and clearly has some friends in the administration. He’s very well plugged in, and has had the most “positive” take on this. He should also be a known friend status at this point, same as David schuster
November 8th, 2023 at 9:07 AM ^
Great info - I wondered if he likely has a Michigan connection. I saw he was a yahoo author and wondered but his wiki resume is pretty impressive.
his piece is a great appeal to reason and hopefully this moves from the tribal state it’s in to common sense if that’s possible
Michigan - keep up the PR campaign.
November 8th, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^
I'm not sure I would put him in the "positive" category. If anything, I would put him in the balanced/negative category. Remember, he was the one that originally broke this story for Yahoo news. Until the last few days, he was pretty open to a real penalty for Harbaugh
November 8th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
I listen to and read a lot of Wetzel. I don't think he is Pro UM. I think he Neutral UM. But I do think, given his proximity to UM that he is particularly plugged in to what happens around that program.
He is a different kind of thinker/journalist when it comes to College Football and the "leadership" around college football. He doesn't hesitate to call out how dumb the sport is/can be and he is usually, I think pretty spot on with his observations and critiques.
I'm not one to go out of my way to praise, critique, or bash journalists/journalism. I think it is a thankless job in many ways. That said, I do think Wetzel does a great job and would encourage anyone to check his stuff out. In my experience, he is insightful, thought provoking, and fair.
November 8th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
Dan Wetzel is an existential threat to Pete Thamel’s Pulitzer
November 8th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
Most significantly - Yahoo ran this piece.
This whole thing has reeked of agenda-driven reporting. When this story first broke, the week of the MSU game, much of the media shrugged their shoulders. Then - particularly at ESPN and the Athletic - they seemed to get orders from above to sensationalize this as much as possible, and suddenly people like Finebaum did a 180 and called this a "scandal."
I don't think most of these reporters actually have it in for us (Thamel, maybe). They've been fed a company line to make this a huge story and the feeding frenzy commenced. But you can only beat the drum so long about a rule that the NCAA nearly abolished two years ago, saying it offered "minimal competitive advantage."
The new developments about the BTCG last year are a fresh angle. "Big Ten coaches are a bunch of hypocrites" will get page views. The AP, SI, Yahoo and even ESPN have now run stories about it. Stewart Mandel was leading the charge against us a few days ago and now is questioning the other coaches' motives.
The deafening chorus at Tony Pettiti's door to punish us is fizzling out. He has room to backtrack now.
November 8th, 2023 at 10:13 AM ^
I keep wondering why these opinion writers get to be called reporters. Sports journalism is mostly an oxymoron, especially when there's a breaking story and they need to be measured and judicious in their reporting. They're opinion writers, used to editorializing after the fact.
November 8th, 2023 at 8:21 AM ^
He nailed it. You can sense the narrative has shifted.
November 8th, 2023 at 8:41 AM ^
I really hope the narrative is shifting. Unfortunately the sensationalized lies over the last few weeks have become talking points that people just regurgitate. The lies were for ratings and clicks. The talking points require no additional thought of new information.
November 8th, 2023 at 8:49 AM ^
There will still be some who brainlessly repeat that stuff, but there is now pushback. It's changing from a feeding frenzy to a debate about signs. That's all we needed.
November 8th, 2023 at 9:08 AM ^
Dan is killing it
BTW is "UM stole the answer key" the latest stupid talking point / analogy? I mean that spreadsheet is a literal answer key that OSU/Rutgers gave Purdue
November 8th, 2023 at 9:57 AM ^
There is genuinely people, mostly OSU and MSU fans, who have convinced themselves that iPhone footage of a sideline is more advantageous than multiple coaches coming together to strategize and compile their stolen signs
November 8th, 2023 at 10:00 AM ^
They seriously believe that because Connor (may have) broken a rule that it's heinous and since OSU, Rutgers, and Purdue may have technically not broken a rule that it's fine. They're trying to claim OSU is above board but what Connor did is a war crime. You can't have it both ways. Either it's a technical violation or OSU is basically guilty of the same major scandal
November 8th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
Agree on the logical absurdity of the Buckeye narrative, but I'm not ready to concede that their scheme didn't technically break rules.
11.6 is a vague and terribly written rule, as we all know from the time we spent parsing the language and the legislative history last week. Both schemes involve the advance, in-person collection of signals by unaffiliated third parties. It takes a strained reading of the rule to think that one but both violates the rule.
November 8th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
Tunnel vision.
November 8th, 2023 at 10:08 AM ^
In case anyone is curious, Devin Radcliff (he of the flawless logic and reasoning) is a football coach in Bowling Green, OH and pretty obviously a Buckeye fan:
https://twitter.com/Coach_Radcliff
Pitty the children taking instruction from that idiot.
November 8th, 2023 at 10:13 AM ^
So in this scenario, Ryan Day must be the substitute gym teacher (because he's tuff) whose office smells like fast food. Substitutes always make it easier to steal the answer key.
November 8th, 2023 at 1:15 PM ^
In that analogy, it is more like another teacher looked at the questions and then gave a different class the answers. In their case, it was other coaches who were involved in the sign stealing. So they in-person scouted, stole the signs, interpreted them and then handed them over. And they have the gall to cite a sportsmanship clause?
Collusion.
November 8th, 2023 at 9:08 AM ^
Definitely shifting. For instance, Thamel went missing/hiding, and just now resurfaced this morning with a soft ass tweet. I think Shuster's relentless Twittter bombs on Thamel single-handedly forced him to take a break and reflect. Definitely epic.
EDIT: This one is my personal favorite from Shuster:
Even though his own colleague @ESPNRittenberg is reporting this, @PeteThamel refuses to say a peep, or even tweet his colleague's report. Clearly. Thamel is curled up in the fetal position with his @OhioStateFB blanket and binkie wailing, "NOO," or meeting with @espn H.R. dept?
November 8th, 2023 at 9:55 AM ^
Haven’t logged in a long time….had a good laugh at this shuster quote, so as the saying goes, logged in to upvote ya…
November 8th, 2023 at 8:41 AM ^
Would be funny to end this in an offsetting penalty, with personal foul "targeting" on ESPN.
ESPN has been ejected.
November 8th, 2023 at 8:57 AM ^
Unsportsmanlike conduct on Itty Bitty Pettiti. Actions were considered flagrant. The commissioner is disqualified.
November 8th, 2023 at 8:21 AM ^
Yeah, this really puts it in perspective. If what Connor did is so abhorrent, how in the absolute hell is what Ohio State & Rutgers did any different?
November 8th, 2023 at 8:34 AM ^
Don’t forget Purdue. They accepted the info.
November 8th, 2023 at 9:12 AM ^
Suspend Jeff Brohm until we get to the bottom of this
(Zero chance, but I still think it'd be funny if this ended up hurting Louisville somehow)
November 8th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
I wondered if Brohm wasn’t the source for this story. The info came from a “former Big 10” coach. Granted, it could be an assistant but it would be delicious if Brohm dropped the match to torch OSU on his way out.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:03 PM ^
That tracks, actually. It would be especially hilarious after his Cardinals took the shine off of OSU's big win against ND.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:31 PM ^
It's Louisville. The AD probably called Brohm this morning and said 'hey you got any other good cheating ideas in the works? Thats good stuff'
November 8th, 2023 at 8:42 AM ^
Honestly it's worse - they cried crocodile tears to get a coach fired or a team disqualified and now are saying "but we followed the rules" when they clearly conspired to do the same thing - but more effectively. They didn't just do the same thing - they then lied and cried about it.
November 8th, 2023 at 8:53 AM ^
Yep. This portion of the article totally calls Purdue out on it, too.
In Michigan’s case, the “advanced scouts” were Stalions’ band of iPhone-toting buddies.
In Purdue’s case, the “advanced scouts” were the professional coaching staffs of two other Big Ten teams that had just played the Wolverines, and thus could battle-test the signs they stole as accurate.
Which would you rather have? Raw cell phone footage that still needs to be broken down, or highly experienced coaches just handing over their work?
Everyone would choose the Purdue option.
November 8th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
I think you could still make the argument that the Stalions method is more comprehensive.
However, it is way way way more intensive, and thus not worth the extra effort for such a minuscule advantage, which is why everyone would choose the Purdue option. Except Stalions who likes the hustle.
November 8th, 2023 at 10:12 AM ^
Unless and until neutral observers are able to review the cell phone videos sent to CS by his motley crew, how do we know how valuable they actually were? For fuck’s sake, at least one of his secret spies bailed on his assignment because it was raining.
November 8th, 2023 at 12:49 PM ^
I think that's true and convincing. But for me, if two teams are both stealing signs outside of gameday it kind of doesn't matter. If 4 teams are doing it, it matters even less. If 7 or more of the Big Ten's 14 teams are culpable, any rules around it are just theater and pointless.
What DOES matter is the gaslighting. And since the Big Ten has no rules about sign stealing and only rules on sportsmanship, the gaslighting makes these schools transgressions far worse.
November 8th, 2023 at 8:23 AM ^
Wow. Very well written and very sensible. Please send a copy to Tony “ the false tiger” Pettiti.