Yep, grandfather was a civil engineering professor for 60 years. Retired in 2015 and he would tell me all the time that they handed out A’s much less frequently than they do now. He kept all his old grade books and old students would stop by with their kids who were about to enroll and he would look them up in the old grade book and tell them their grade and the kids would often be unimpressed when their dad/mom got a B or C back in the 70’s and my grandfather would always tell them how a C back then was basically an A today.
Although grade inflation is making it hard to weed out applications in the admissions process the good news is that the people who are most deserving of getting into the top schools will probably excel no matter where they end up anyway. My cousin is currently getting her Masters in Munich through a German scholarship program and was performing at the Philharmonie Berlin as a first chair cellist just a couple days ago.
I had a cousin who graduated high school in 2017 who is one of the most accomplished/smartest people I have ever known.
She had perfect grades. Got a 35 on her ACT. Spent a high school semester in Germany wherein she passed the C2 language exam (native speaker level) which would allow her to work in Germany. She was also a substitute Cellist for the local symphony and had composed multiple operas and concertos. Participated in a wide variety of clubs in high school as well as ran cross country. Just an all around good/well liked person.
She was waitlisted by Duke, even though she was a legacy, and rejected/waitlisted by most of her top choice “elite schools”. Ended up getting a full ride to Wake Forest and accepting it.
I do not envy what it will take for future generations to get into a good school. Just forfeit your entire teen years if you have dreams of going to Harvard I guess.
Lol maybe a little. It’s just funny how quickly the prevailing sentiment can change. I was downvoted into oblivion last week for stating that maybe a man who has made over $100 million in his career can pay for a semester or two of his sons college and now that same exact sentiment gets upvoted.
It was more annoying that people were claiming that I was “trying to tell others how to spend their money” as if a parent paying for their child’s education is akin to asking someone to give away their entire net worth.
Especially when the child wasn’t talented enough to deserve that scholarship in the first place and has already gotten their 4 years.
Be careful. I was suggesting this exact thing a little over a week ago on this board and multiple people got mad and were telling me that I shouldn't tell others how to spend their money.
Oh, gimme a break. This isn't me telling Juwan to donate millions to some charity. His son isn't a P5-level basketball player. He had him on scholarship taking the spot of someone who could've been much more useful(god forbid this team has an extra ball handler).
Juwan made $100 million over his playing career. The university paid him tens of millions to be a bad coach. Plenty of families pay for their children's school on a fraction of the earnings that Juwan has had in his lifetime.
Save me the sanctimonious "telling someone else how they should use their money" bullcrap. I'm not asking him to end world hunger. I'm saying he should pay for his sons education. The son who isn't a good enough player to have a scholarship at Michigan.
He got his scholarship…scholarships are good for 4 years. He got 4 years at an elite university that he really didn’t deserve because his dad was the coach. He should be a graduate by the end of this semester and if not that also speaks to the culture problems within the program (cc:Dug McDaniels).
It’s Dusty’s choice what to do here but to think we owe Jace anything is laughable. He’s gotten more than enough from the university.
LMAO. This is why arguing with people on the internet is a fruitless endeavor. Literally every single point you made was wrong. Jace never redshirted (He got a Covid year which isn’t a redshirt). The B1G does not make you honor a scholarship until they graduate. Jace was not a walk-on. He was on scholarship.
Also, if you use it the way football has. Not using a scholarship on someone means that they are having their tuition covered by NIL. So either he is wasting a scholarship or he is wasting our NIL.
Please enlighten me on how I don’t know how scholarships work even though you don’t seem to have even the simplest understanding of the Jace situation.
I’m confused by this side of the argument. I personally don’t care what happens to Jace. It’s Dusty’s decision not mine. With that being said, why would this be “running him out the door”.
He got 4 years at Michigan. That’s the usual amount of athletic eligibility and the time it takes to graduate. The only reason he could come back is because his freshman year was the Covid year and doesn’t count against his eligibility.
What happens if he gets hurt this year? Then do we also have to honor his scholarship the next year and give him a 6th? As far as I’m concerned he was already done solid. He got a free education at one of the best public universities in the country even though he was nowhere near good enough to have been a scholarship player and his dad is rich and should’ve been paying for him in the first place.
I don’t know why burning a scholarship spot so a bad player can get a 5th year of free college is so acceptable?
This was his 4th year at Michigan. Not to mention many athletes take summer classes and are done a semester or two early. Him getting a degree shouldn’t factor into this because he should already have one by the end of this semester. If he for some reason doesn’t graduate Juwan has more than enough money to pay for a semester or two of college for him.
He really shouldn’t have ever been on scholarship in the first place but I digress.
That’s the point I made in my first reply. There aren’t that many programs who are actually paying NIL for WBB players. Even CC wasn’t making much of anything from NIL collectives(Granted she is making a ton from actual NIL like State Farm).
It doesn’t make sense that this would be an NIL issue because there isn’t that much WBB NIL out there.
You are getting a return in that a product you enjoy becomes better and therefore more enjoyable which will also have the effect of more people donating. Women’s basketball, which doesn’t have a lot of fans, has less of a pool of people who might be interested in seeing them succeed and therefore doesn’t raise much money.
To put it simply:
more football success= more NIL donations = better players = more football success
You forget that the majority of NIL is given to collectives who distribute the money in the way they best see fit.
Giving money to a WBB player does not have a good ROI because a much smaller amount of people care about the success of the WBB team. People, by and large, do not donate to collectives in order to pay the women’s basketball team.
I’m sorry if some people don’t like it but it’s the truth.
NIL isn’t an infinite pile of money that anyone can reach into and grab out of. It’s a limited resource that has to be used wisely in order to make our most important teams successful.
Would you rather have our elite defensive players return to the football team or would you rather us keep the WBB team together? Who should we be willing to give up on the football team in order for us to have a first weekend exit in the women’s tournament? Should we sacrifice Kenneth Grant for the WBB team?
That’s essentially what people are asking when they wonder why we don’t have any WBB NIL.
The problem is that the only way these women get NIL is if it’s legitimate NIL, like how it was intended to be used, i.e. Caitlyn Clark being in State Farm commercials.
People might not like it and might even see it as sexist but there is no good reason to pay any WBB player NIL from a collective. The WBB program brings in less money than they spend already. Even men’s basketball barely turns a profit at most schools. Now are we supposed to siphon away money that could go to football or men’s basketball for a net negative sport?
The truth is, is that there are very few teams in the country that are paying women’s basketball players NIL. I don’t know why so many of these players are leaving but most if not all of them will end up at place that will pay them virtually nothing.
Where does it end? Does the school need to tap into the collective funds to make sure we don’t lose a star field hockey player?
What NIL has now become is incredibly stupid. If somebody has legitimate marketability and can use that to make money, then more power to them but pretending like us fans need to donate money to a collective so that our women’s basketball team can maybe make it to the second weekend in March is stupid.
It’s already stupid that you have to do it for the football team, but at least with them they are making the university money and bringing the school recognition and applications. So there is a decent return on the NIL investment.
People won’t like to hear it but NIL is never going to be a factor here for women’s basketball. It’s the same issue that boosters had with the men’s basketball program last year. What is the return on investment? Yeah, they could’ve paid Dickinson more money to stay but what does that get us? A CBI invite at most with how bad this team was.
In women’s basketball what is your ROI? Sweet 16 appearance tops? As opposed to not giving NIL where you could maybe get to the round of 32. What’s the difference?
It’s part of the reason that Women’s basketball has always had such a hard time catching on. There are a handful of schools that accumulate all the talent and with so little parity it’s harder to attract new fans.
Houston and Diabate did nothing at Michigan that markedly improved their draft stock. They were seen as fringe lottery picks coming into the season and fell out of that pick range due to a mediocre college year. Claiming that Houston and Diabate “just so happened” to be good enough to be one and done is being obtuse.
They were always projected to be one and dones and that’s what they ended up doing regardless of how little they actually produced in college.
Potential, Potential, Potential. The NBA sees an athletic freak and thinks they can mold him into an elite NBA player, and hell sometimes they can (Giannis, Anthony Edwards) but the vast majority of times they can’t and the player flames out.
Give me the non-athletic freak who knows he has to become elite at the fundamentals of basketball to maybe play in Europe one day over the top-10 recruit who can take a nickel off the backboard.
I would be fine with Michigan never getting another recruit in that top 15-20 range ever again. Seems like those players have the size athleticism to be top players but haven’t put it all together like top 10 players have.
I mean…did you read the article? The way Juwan says it went is exactly what Sam described weeks ago.
From the article:
“On March 15, Howard met with Manuel to present his plan to fix Michigan basketball. He laid out his ideas, mainly stressing the need for more NIL support. Howard says he told Manuel that a few people had approached him looking to help men’s basketball, especially after the football national championship.
After about 45 minutes, Manuel stepped away briefly. When he returned, he told Howard the school was going to move in a different direction.”
I don’t know about you but if you have made up your mind that you are going to let someone go you usually don’t let them plead their case for 45 minutes. Maybe that’s just me though.
Sam Webb mentioned that Warde met with Juwan to hear what his plans for the future of the program would look like and that if he felt he had a good plan he would be given another year. That more or less sounds exactly how Juwan described it as well.
Dusty May has been one of the obvious top choice candidates for over a year. Any competent athletic department could absolutely hire May within 10 days.
Alabama hired DeBoer within 2 days of Saban’s surprise retirement. Is it that hard to believe Michigan could hire Dusty in 10?
Like Brian mentioned on the pod. I don’t ever want to see a Houston/Diabate type on Michigan ever again. That year was painful because it felt like they had so much potential but Houston knew he was going to the NBA and never got better while being a liability out there at times but you had to play him because he was the highly ranked 5 star with tons of upside.
Couldn’t agree more. So many comments in this thread with the general tone of “See Juwan was in the right. Sanderson overstepped and got confrontational”.
Knowing what we do about both of them I have no idea how anyone could believe that it was Sanderson trying to fight Juwan. Juwan has, on multiple occasions, tried to get physical with opposing coaches in the public eye. Taking Juwans comments at face value while pretending Sanderson was lying doesn’t match up which what we already know about both of these people.
It is still a little alarming to me that, like Sam Webb has pointed out on the roundtable, Warde was still undecided on Juwans future until he met with him after the season finished.
There is clearly a world where Juwan is a slightly better bullshitter and gives Warde the answers he wants to hear to get this program back on track and we get another year of Juwan somehow.
Not to mention the fact that he felt the need to hire an outside firm to investigate the culture of the program which should have been pretty obvious.
I think Warde did a great job in the May hiring. He was quick and decisive and scooped him out from under a bigger basketball program but I don’t think that criticism of his job is unwarranted.
Same thought I had. If I’m a big time booster and I’m looking at things objectively with the state of both programs in April 2023 do I want to help the national title caliber football team or do I want to pay an absurd amount of money so that a good basketball player will stay on a team that might not even be CBI worthy next year.
It actually might be a blessing in disguise that they didn’t get the NIL support they wanted last season. Imagine they did get enough money to keep Dickinson around and they were still terrible. That would’ve probably had some boosters wondering exactly what was the point of giving NIL money to these players.
Yes, but given Juwan’s track record and Sanderson’s track record I’m inclined to believe that Sanderson was being fairly truthful when his side of the story leaked.
Especially when the only rebuttal I heard about Sanderson’s action was that he was “being insubordinate to his superior” in this case Juwan getting in his face and them almost coming to blows.
I’m confused by this because aren’t scholarships just a 1 year agreement? I’m fairly certain that most D1 schools only go year by year with their scholarship offers. Obviously schools don’t usually pull scholarships because it would give them a bad reputation.
However, Jace has been here for 4 years and the only reason he could come back next year is because of the free Covid year. I don’t see why UM should be forced to give him a free 5th year of schooling. Dude should be told he can comeback as a walk on if he wants because that’s the caliber of player he is.
I’ve been unsure about the Jace situation since the new hire. He showed up to Dusty’s introductory press conference, which, good for him for having a good attitude about it. From accounts of people who have interacted with him outside of the program he seems to be a good kid.
However, it’s hard to deny the reports of him being the reason that the Sanderson stuff went down with his poor attitude towards coaching/training staff. It also doesn’t take a genius to realize that this team clearly had some culture problems and the 4th year senior coaches son is an obvious place to look for why this team might lack a winning culture.
I don’t want the new staff to be put in a position where they feel like they have to keep Jace around to do right by the outgoing coach. Jace is a mid-major bench/rotational player at best. He has gotten 4 years at Michigan and should have his degree. I’m not sure why we owe him a 5th year.
I would much rather see Dusty take a flyer on a developmental low ranked recruit that could become the next Caris Levert/Johnell Davis than just burn a scholarship next year to do Juwan/Jace a solid. Unfortunately I get the feeling that Dusty is a nice guy and will let him return.
I don’t know if you’ve seen it yet or not but I figured I’d let you know in case others have the same question. Brian answered this on Twitter and said yes you will be able to ship to multiple addresses if you ordered multiple copies.
What I had heard about this online last week, when it was being rumored, is that he was unsure about his future at USC. He has had middling success (should be good enough for USC) and he figures that changing jobs resets the clock on how much time he has to build his team.
Whereas USC might have fired him if they were mediocre again next year. He now has a fresh start at a school that’s taking a leap up into a good basketball conference in an area of the country with a lot of basketball talent.
Also, USC just hired a new AD less than a year ago. Maybe he didn’t have a good relationship with her and saw the writing on the wall.
I'm gonna be honest I re-read the title 5 times thinking that someone was literally stuck in the transfer portal (like a Fansville commercial gone wrong) before I clicked on the thread and understood what you were talking about.
You bring up a great point and something I haven't thought about in a couple months. What does Stapleton think of the Dusty May hire and should we expect some sanctions soon for going against his wishes?
Kinda depends how the separation really went down. If it was Warde blaming Sanderson for what happened and saying that he is going to be let go because of it the ship has probably sailed.
If Warde told him: “Hey coach Sanderson you’ve been an important part of this program for a long time I understand your frustration. This season has been rough. I understand that tempers can flare in that environment. If you feel that it’s in your best interest we can give you a payout and we can go our separate ways.”
Then I think there could be a window for Beilein to help bring him back into the fold. That is of course if Dusty doesn’t already have his own guy that he is comfortable with.
His son is a top 50 recruit in the country out of Saline high school and it would be extremely painful to have to watch him play 4 years at Illinois.
Agreed on the advisory role. I don’t want Dusty to feel like he’s being undervalued or that he can’t put his own stamp on the program (with a program legend coach constantly looking over his shoulder). But him being available to advise in situation's that Dusty may not have experienced at smaller programs or picking his brain about basketball philosophy or assistant coaching hires could be very useful.
Dusty seems to have an eye for talent similar to Beilein’s so maybe Beilein could do some GM type stuff like scouting.
People are really underestimating taking over an FAU program with no history of success and turning them into a solid squad let alone a final four caliber one. The 3 years before May got to FAU they were 8-25, 10-20 and 12-19. May took over and never had a losing season at a school with no real basketball identity.
Pretending like he “assembled some bad ones” is pretty disingenuous when you look at what he walked into at FAU. Yeah they underperformed a little this year but him even having FAU at the level they are currently at is impressive in it of itself.
Like any coaching hire time will tell how this one works out but holding his early years at FAU against him, when he is building up a complete nothing basketball program, is ridiculous. Especially when it was an immediate improvement over their previous coach.
We just had a season where multiple people who could have been drafted decided to return for one last shot and we got a title out of it. What are you even talking about that this never applies to OSU? It's pretty clear that they dropped an absolute monster amount of cash because they mentally couldn't handle us winning a title.
OSU added 2 QB's AFTER the deadline to enter the portal had passed. One if not more of them, are going to portal out when the spring transfer window opens. Either way it doesn't matter because it's QB and the best one is going to be the one playing regardless.
I don't envision a world where we lose any defensive starters unless we hire someone extremely unlikable. The majority of those players are probably off to the NFL next year anyway and they are already Michigan legends who will probably be getting 6 figure NIL deals here.
Those 3 themselves are all 1st round picks next year. Really no need to uproot everything/try to transfer credits to another school for only 2 semesters at most (winter semester has already started so they couldn't enroll until spring) when you are going to be done with school and preparing for the NFL draft this time next year anyway.
If we had an absolute stud true freshman I would be more concerned because they would have more seasons to capitalize on a lucrative NIL offer.
There is no way OSU can compete with top 5 NFL pick money. We’re talking $25+ million guaranteed. Even if they did come anywhere near that number it would be hilarious to watch them spend it all on a WR instead of using a fraction of that money to buy every 5 star O/D-lineman in the country.
The number shown is only an average for the entirety of the 4 hour broadcast. Usually they also announce the peak viewing audience as well and it’s always a couple million more. Probably somewhere in the low 20 millions which is absurd for a regular season game.
In the age of streaming it gets harder to track an exact number for this but keep in mind that last year’s national championship only averaged around 17 million. Having almost 2 million viewers more for a regular season game is unheard of.
When people wonder why the B1G can keep pace with the SEC monetarily even though they haven’t had the same success in football. This is why.
Figure I’ll leave this here for those who don’t know. If you google search college football vods and then click on the first link (NFL-video) you can watch the Michigan-OSU game in its entirety, without commercials, in 4K. I’ve already rewatched the game at-least 5-6 times.
Agreed, even if new evidence came to light as some are suggesting take it to court anyway. If it comes out that Harbaugh knew and financed the whole thing go in debating the legality of the scouting in the first place. Michigan fans were finally proud that their university wasn’t the one school that takes the NCAA seriously and then when the going gets tough they just cave to the B1G and the whims of a bunch of AD’s and coaches who have an interest in Michigan failing.
This also doesn’t even close the NCAA portion of the investigation. When was the last time a team was disciplined by both their conference and the NCAA for the same violation? I can’t remember that ever happening, and over something so stupid no less.
How do we move forward with the B1G? Anytime somebody isn’t well liked they can be ganged up on and suspended from their position over ticky tack bullshit. Never been more embarrassed for my school just rolling over.
The only way that this makes any modicum of sense is if Harbaugh has informed the school that he won’t be coming back next year and we are using this as a tryout for Sherrone Moore. Even if that is the case they still shouldn’t have gone down without a fight.
I've seen this said in a couple of places and the obvious counter-argument is that this was obviously done by a commissioner who was feeling pressured by other AD's (OSU/MSU) and acted hastily based off of their whining. Clearly, OSU is in his ear and he is acting as their puppet. We also know that OSU will take any advantage they can going into The Game so if Petitti will cave easily to pressure why would they just sit back and let Michigan negotiate it down?
If Michigan tries to do that expect to see more drip-drip news stories that don't change any of the facts and expect another conference call where Ryan Day cries for the "safety of his players" and also expect Petitti's dumbass to eat it up like the moron he is.
I think the window for negotiating went out the window when Petitti came to Ann Arbor begging for an indefinite suspension and Ono laughed him out of town. Petitti is clearly OSU's lapdog. Now it's time to go fight it in court. Win or Lose it's also time to start taking calls from the SEC or contemplating going independent. This conference has shown its true colors and there is no reason to continue forward with the B1G unless serious changes are made at the top of the organization starting with Petitti.
Couldn’t agree more. ACC is a dying conference, Clemson and FSU are planning their escapes as we speak. Go to the conference with the best athletics that doesn’t intentionally sabotage their own. Go to the SEC. Michigan will be an elite academic school no matter where they go. Might as well go to the conference with the best football.
“Oh you are trying to cannibalize one of your own. Well let me just help you along with that. I would love to get an extra team into the CFP. Here’s the evidence you requested”
Sankey trying to fight back his laughing as Petitti thanks him for his help.
F that go SEC. Michigan shouldn't join an athletics conference for academics. ACC will probably lose FSU and Clemson soon anyway. Go play football in the best conference.
I had Georgia flairs unironically telling me that a head coach is responsible for everything that happens at their program while also trying to frame what Michigan did as “institutional cheating” and what Georgia did “kids being stupid” (even though it was a staffer driving the car).
r/CFB, as well as Reddit as a whole, is a collection of people who think they are smarter than they really are even on the best of days. These last two weeks that place might as well be renamed “eleven red cedar warriors message boards”.
Recent Comments
Yep, grandfather was a civil engineering professor for 60 years. Retired in 2015 and he would tell me all the time that they handed out A’s much less frequently than they do now. He kept all his old grade books and old students would stop by with their kids who were about to enroll and he would look them up in the old grade book and tell them their grade and the kids would often be unimpressed when their dad/mom got a B or C back in the 70’s and my grandfather would always tell them how a C back then was basically an A today.
Although grade inflation is making it hard to weed out applications in the admissions process the good news is that the people who are most deserving of getting into the top schools will probably excel no matter where they end up anyway. My cousin is currently getting her Masters in Munich through a German scholarship program and was performing at the Philharmonie Berlin as a first chair cellist just a couple days ago.
Still not good enough for Duke though!!!!
I had a cousin who graduated high school in 2017 who is one of the most accomplished/smartest people I have ever known.
She had perfect grades. Got a 35 on her ACT. Spent a high school semester in Germany wherein she passed the C2 language exam (native speaker level) which would allow her to work in Germany. She was also a substitute Cellist for the local symphony and had composed multiple operas and concertos. Participated in a wide variety of clubs in high school as well as ran cross country. Just an all around good/well liked person.
She was waitlisted by Duke, even though she was a legacy, and rejected/waitlisted by most of her top choice “elite schools”. Ended up getting a full ride to Wake Forest and accepting it.
I do not envy what it will take for future generations to get into a good school. Just forfeit your entire teen years if you have dreams of going to Harvard I guess.
I did the same and was surprised nobody had lol.
I wonder if his credits will transfer.
Weird…you no longer seem to be mad about people suggesting that Jace should be a walk on…
Truth hurts ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Lol maybe a little. It’s just funny how quickly the prevailing sentiment can change. I was downvoted into oblivion last week for stating that maybe a man who has made over $100 million in his career can pay for a semester or two of his sons college and now that same exact sentiment gets upvoted.
It was more annoying that people were claiming that I was “trying to tell others how to spend their money” as if a parent paying for their child’s education is akin to asking someone to give away their entire net worth.
Especially when the child wasn’t talented enough to deserve that scholarship in the first place and has already gotten their 4 years.
Be careful. I was suggesting this exact thing a little over a week ago on this board and multiple people got mad and were telling me that I shouldn't tell others how to spend their money.
Oh, gimme a break. This isn't me telling Juwan to donate millions to some charity. His son isn't a P5-level basketball player. He had him on scholarship taking the spot of someone who could've been much more useful(god forbid this team has an extra ball handler).
Juwan made $100 million over his playing career. The university paid him tens of millions to be a bad coach. Plenty of families pay for their children's school on a fraction of the earnings that Juwan has had in his lifetime.
Save me the sanctimonious "telling someone else how they should use their money" bullcrap. I'm not asking him to end world hunger. I'm saying he should pay for his sons education. The son who isn't a good enough player to have a scholarship at Michigan.
He got his scholarship…scholarships are good for 4 years. He got 4 years at an elite university that he really didn’t deserve because his dad was the coach. He should be a graduate by the end of this semester and if not that also speaks to the culture problems within the program (cc:Dug McDaniels).
It’s Dusty’s choice what to do here but to think we owe Jace anything is laughable. He’s gotten more than enough from the university.
LMAO. This is why arguing with people on the internet is a fruitless endeavor. Literally every single point you made was wrong. Jace never redshirted (He got a Covid year which isn’t a redshirt). The B1G does not make you honor a scholarship until they graduate. Jace was not a walk-on. He was on scholarship.
Also, if you use it the way football has. Not using a scholarship on someone means that they are having their tuition covered by NIL. So either he is wasting a scholarship or he is wasting our NIL.
Please enlighten me on how I don’t know how scholarships work even though you don’t seem to have even the simplest understanding of the Jace situation.
I’m confused by this side of the argument. I personally don’t care what happens to Jace. It’s Dusty’s decision not mine. With that being said, why would this be “running him out the door”.
He got 4 years at Michigan. That’s the usual amount of athletic eligibility and the time it takes to graduate. The only reason he could come back is because his freshman year was the Covid year and doesn’t count against his eligibility.
What happens if he gets hurt this year? Then do we also have to honor his scholarship the next year and give him a 6th? As far as I’m concerned he was already done solid. He got a free education at one of the best public universities in the country even though he was nowhere near good enough to have been a scholarship player and his dad is rich and should’ve been paying for him in the first place.
I don’t know why burning a scholarship spot so a bad player can get a 5th year of free college is so acceptable?
His scholarship was already honored. He played 4 years at Michigan with no redshirt. The only reason he could come back is because of the Covid year.
This was his 4th year at Michigan. Not to mention many athletes take summer classes and are done a semester or two early. Him getting a degree shouldn’t factor into this because he should already have one by the end of this semester. If he for some reason doesn’t graduate Juwan has more than enough money to pay for a semester or two of college for him.
He really shouldn’t have ever been on scholarship in the first place but I digress.
That’s the point I made in my first reply. There aren’t that many programs who are actually paying NIL for WBB players. Even CC wasn’t making much of anything from NIL collectives(Granted she is making a ton from actual NIL like State Farm).
It doesn’t make sense that this would be an NIL issue because there isn’t that much WBB NIL out there.
You are getting a return in that a product you enjoy becomes better and therefore more enjoyable which will also have the effect of more people donating. Women’s basketball, which doesn’t have a lot of fans, has less of a pool of people who might be interested in seeing them succeed and therefore doesn’t raise much money.
To put it simply:
more football success= more NIL donations = better players = more football success
You forget that the majority of NIL is given to collectives who distribute the money in the way they best see fit.
Giving money to a WBB player does not have a good ROI because a much smaller amount of people care about the success of the WBB team. People, by and large, do not donate to collectives in order to pay the women’s basketball team.
I’m sorry if some people don’t like it but it’s the truth.
NIL isn’t an infinite pile of money that anyone can reach into and grab out of. It’s a limited resource that has to be used wisely in order to make our most important teams successful.
Would you rather have our elite defensive players return to the football team or would you rather us keep the WBB team together? Who should we be willing to give up on the football team in order for us to have a first weekend exit in the women’s tournament? Should we sacrifice Kenneth Grant for the WBB team?
That’s essentially what people are asking when they wonder why we don’t have any WBB NIL.
The problem is that the only way these women get NIL is if it’s legitimate NIL, like how it was intended to be used, i.e. Caitlyn Clark being in State Farm commercials.
People might not like it and might even see it as sexist but there is no good reason to pay any WBB player NIL from a collective. The WBB program brings in less money than they spend already. Even men’s basketball barely turns a profit at most schools. Now are we supposed to siphon away money that could go to football or men’s basketball for a net negative sport?
The truth is, is that there are very few teams in the country that are paying women’s basketball players NIL. I don’t know why so many of these players are leaving but most if not all of them will end up at place that will pay them virtually nothing.
Where does it end? Does the school need to tap into the collective funds to make sure we don’t lose a star field hockey player?
What NIL has now become is incredibly stupid. If somebody has legitimate marketability and can use that to make money, then more power to them but pretending like us fans need to donate money to a collective so that our women’s basketball team can maybe make it to the second weekend in March is stupid.
It’s already stupid that you have to do it for the football team, but at least with them they are making the university money and bringing the school recognition and applications. So there is a decent return on the NIL investment.
People won’t like to hear it but NIL is never going to be a factor here for women’s basketball. It’s the same issue that boosters had with the men’s basketball program last year. What is the return on investment? Yeah, they could’ve paid Dickinson more money to stay but what does that get us? A CBI invite at most with how bad this team was.
In women’s basketball what is your ROI? Sweet 16 appearance tops? As opposed to not giving NIL where you could maybe get to the round of 32. What’s the difference?
It’s part of the reason that Women’s basketball has always had such a hard time catching on. There are a handful of schools that accumulate all the talent and with so little parity it’s harder to attract new fans.
Houston and Diabate did nothing at Michigan that markedly improved their draft stock. They were seen as fringe lottery picks coming into the season and fell out of that pick range due to a mediocre college year. Claiming that Houston and Diabate “just so happened” to be good enough to be one and done is being obtuse.
They were always projected to be one and dones and that’s what they ended up doing regardless of how little they actually produced in college.
Potential, Potential, Potential. The NBA sees an athletic freak and thinks they can mold him into an elite NBA player, and hell sometimes they can (Giannis, Anthony Edwards) but the vast majority of times they can’t and the player flames out.
Give me the non-athletic freak who knows he has to become elite at the fundamentals of basketball to maybe play in Europe one day over the top-10 recruit who can take a nickel off the backboard.
I would be fine with Michigan never getting another recruit in that top 15-20 range ever again. Seems like those players have the size athleticism to be top players but haven’t put it all together like top 10 players have.
I mean…did you read the article? The way Juwan says it went is exactly what Sam described weeks ago.
From the article:
“On March 15, Howard met with Manuel to present his plan to fix Michigan basketball. He laid out his ideas, mainly stressing the need for more NIL support. Howard says he told Manuel that a few people had approached him looking to help men’s basketball, especially after the football national championship.
After about 45 minutes, Manuel stepped away briefly. When he returned, he told Howard the school was going to move in a different direction.”
I don’t know about you but if you have made up your mind that you are going to let someone go you usually don’t let them plead their case for 45 minutes. Maybe that’s just me though.
Sam Webb mentioned that Warde met with Juwan to hear what his plans for the future of the program would look like and that if he felt he had a good plan he would be given another year. That more or less sounds exactly how Juwan described it as well.
Dusty May has been one of the obvious top choice candidates for over a year. Any competent athletic department could absolutely hire May within 10 days.
Alabama hired DeBoer within 2 days of Saban’s surprise retirement. Is it that hard to believe Michigan could hire Dusty in 10?
Like Brian mentioned on the pod. I don’t ever want to see a Houston/Diabate type on Michigan ever again. That year was painful because it felt like they had so much potential but Houston knew he was going to the NBA and never got better while being a liability out there at times but you had to play him because he was the highly ranked 5 star with tons of upside.
Couldn’t agree more. So many comments in this thread with the general tone of “See Juwan was in the right. Sanderson overstepped and got confrontational”.
Knowing what we do about both of them I have no idea how anyone could believe that it was Sanderson trying to fight Juwan. Juwan has, on multiple occasions, tried to get physical with opposing coaches in the public eye. Taking Juwans comments at face value while pretending Sanderson was lying doesn’t match up which what we already know about both of these people.
It is still a little alarming to me that, like Sam Webb has pointed out on the roundtable, Warde was still undecided on Juwans future until he met with him after the season finished.
There is clearly a world where Juwan is a slightly better bullshitter and gives Warde the answers he wants to hear to get this program back on track and we get another year of Juwan somehow.
Not to mention the fact that he felt the need to hire an outside firm to investigate the culture of the program which should have been pretty obvious.
I think Warde did a great job in the May hiring. He was quick and decisive and scooped him out from under a bigger basketball program but I don’t think that criticism of his job is unwarranted.
Same thought I had. If I’m a big time booster and I’m looking at things objectively with the state of both programs in April 2023 do I want to help the national title caliber football team or do I want to pay an absurd amount of money so that a good basketball player will stay on a team that might not even be CBI worthy next year.
It actually might be a blessing in disguise that they didn’t get the NIL support they wanted last season. Imagine they did get enough money to keep Dickinson around and they were still terrible. That would’ve probably had some boosters wondering exactly what was the point of giving NIL money to these players.
Yes, but given Juwan’s track record and Sanderson’s track record I’m inclined to believe that Sanderson was being fairly truthful when his side of the story leaked.
Especially when the only rebuttal I heard about Sanderson’s action was that he was “being insubordinate to his superior” in this case Juwan getting in his face and them almost coming to blows.
I’m confused by this because aren’t scholarships just a 1 year agreement? I’m fairly certain that most D1 schools only go year by year with their scholarship offers. Obviously schools don’t usually pull scholarships because it would give them a bad reputation.
However, Jace has been here for 4 years and the only reason he could come back next year is because of the free Covid year. I don’t see why UM should be forced to give him a free 5th year of schooling. Dude should be told he can comeback as a walk on if he wants because that’s the caliber of player he is.
I’ve been unsure about the Jace situation since the new hire. He showed up to Dusty’s introductory press conference, which, good for him for having a good attitude about it. From accounts of people who have interacted with him outside of the program he seems to be a good kid.
However, it’s hard to deny the reports of him being the reason that the Sanderson stuff went down with his poor attitude towards coaching/training staff. It also doesn’t take a genius to realize that this team clearly had some culture problems and the 4th year senior coaches son is an obvious place to look for why this team might lack a winning culture.
I don’t want the new staff to be put in a position where they feel like they have to keep Jace around to do right by the outgoing coach. Jace is a mid-major bench/rotational player at best. He has gotten 4 years at Michigan and should have his degree. I’m not sure why we owe him a 5th year.
I would much rather see Dusty take a flyer on a developmental low ranked recruit that could become the next Caris Levert/Johnell Davis than just burn a scholarship next year to do Juwan/Jace a solid. Unfortunately I get the feeling that Dusty is a nice guy and will let him return.
I don’t know if you’ve seen it yet or not but I figured I’d let you know in case others have the same question. Brian answered this on Twitter and said yes you will be able to ship to multiple addresses if you ordered multiple copies.
Here is his tweet.
https://x.com/mgoblog/status/1774850184557535666?s=46&t=MjykLPuOczUoDBn4lOlD_w
If there was ever any doubt about how much people wanted this. The kickstarter has almost already hit its goal 20 minutes after posting lol.
What I had heard about this online last week, when it was being rumored, is that he was unsure about his future at USC. He has had middling success (should be good enough for USC) and he figures that changing jobs resets the clock on how much time he has to build his team.
Whereas USC might have fired him if they were mediocre again next year. He now has a fresh start at a school that’s taking a leap up into a good basketball conference in an area of the country with a lot of basketball talent.
Also, USC just hired a new AD less than a year ago. Maybe he didn’t have a good relationship with her and saw the writing on the wall.
I'm gonna be honest I re-read the title 5 times thinking that someone was literally stuck in the transfer portal (like a Fansville commercial gone wrong) before I clicked on the thread and understood what you were talking about.
You bring up a great point and something I haven't thought about in a couple months. What does Stapleton think of the Dusty May hire and should we expect some sanctions soon for going against his wishes?
Kinda depends how the separation really went down. If it was Warde blaming Sanderson for what happened and saying that he is going to be let go because of it the ship has probably sailed.
If Warde told him: “Hey coach Sanderson you’ve been an important part of this program for a long time I understand your frustration. This season has been rough. I understand that tempers can flare in that environment. If you feel that it’s in your best interest we can give you a payout and we can go our separate ways.”
Then I think there could be a window for Beilein to help bring him back into the fold. That is of course if Dusty doesn’t already have his own guy that he is comfortable with.
His son is a top 50 recruit in the country out of Saline high school and it would be extremely painful to have to watch him play 4 years at Illinois.
Agreed on the advisory role. I don’t want Dusty to feel like he’s being undervalued or that he can’t put his own stamp on the program (with a program legend coach constantly looking over his shoulder). But him being available to advise in situation's that Dusty may not have experienced at smaller programs or picking his brain about basketball philosophy or assistant coaching hires could be very useful.
Dusty seems to have an eye for talent similar to Beilein’s so maybe Beilein could do some GM type stuff like scouting.
People are really underestimating taking over an FAU program with no history of success and turning them into a solid squad let alone a final four caliber one. The 3 years before May got to FAU they were 8-25, 10-20 and 12-19. May took over and never had a losing season at a school with no real basketball identity.
Pretending like he “assembled some bad ones” is pretty disingenuous when you look at what he walked into at FAU. Yeah they underperformed a little this year but him even having FAU at the level they are currently at is impressive in it of itself.
Like any coaching hire time will tell how this one works out but holding his early years at FAU against him, when he is building up a complete nothing basketball program, is ridiculous. Especially when it was an immediate improvement over their previous coach.
We just had a season where multiple people who could have been drafted decided to return for one last shot and we got a title out of it. What are you even talking about that this never applies to OSU? It's pretty clear that they dropped an absolute monster amount of cash because they mentally couldn't handle us winning a title.
OSU added 2 QB's AFTER the deadline to enter the portal had passed. One if not more of them, are going to portal out when the spring transfer window opens. Either way it doesn't matter because it's QB and the best one is going to be the one playing regardless.
I don't envision a world where we lose any defensive starters unless we hire someone extremely unlikable. The majority of those players are probably off to the NFL next year anyway and they are already Michigan legends who will probably be getting 6 figure NIL deals here.
Those 3 themselves are all 1st round picks next year. Really no need to uproot everything/try to transfer credits to another school for only 2 semesters at most (winter semester has already started so they couldn't enroll until spring) when you are going to be done with school and preparing for the NFL draft this time next year anyway.
If we had an absolute stud true freshman I would be more concerned because they would have more seasons to capitalize on a lucrative NIL offer.
There is no way OSU can compete with top 5 NFL pick money. We’re talking $25+ million guaranteed. Even if they did come anywhere near that number it would be hilarious to watch them spend it all on a WR instead of using a fraction of that money to buy every 5 star O/D-lineman in the country.
2022 CFP championship game: 17.22m
The number shown is only an average for the entirety of the 4 hour broadcast. Usually they also announce the peak viewing audience as well and it’s always a couple million more. Probably somewhere in the low 20 millions which is absurd for a regular season game.
In the age of streaming it gets harder to track an exact number for this but keep in mind that last year’s national championship only averaged around 17 million. Having almost 2 million viewers more for a regular season game is unheard of.
When people wonder why the B1G can keep pace with the SEC monetarily even though they haven’t had the same success in football. This is why.
Figure I’ll leave this here for those who don’t know. If you google search college football vods and then click on the first link (NFL-video) you can watch the Michigan-OSU game in its entirety, without commercials, in 4K. I’ve already rewatched the game at-least 5-6 times.
Agreed, even if new evidence came to light as some are suggesting take it to court anyway. If it comes out that Harbaugh knew and financed the whole thing go in debating the legality of the scouting in the first place. Michigan fans were finally proud that their university wasn’t the one school that takes the NCAA seriously and then when the going gets tough they just cave to the B1G and the whims of a bunch of AD’s and coaches who have an interest in Michigan failing.
This also doesn’t even close the NCAA portion of the investigation. When was the last time a team was disciplined by both their conference and the NCAA for the same violation? I can’t remember that ever happening, and over something so stupid no less.
How do we move forward with the B1G? Anytime somebody isn’t well liked they can be ganged up on and suspended from their position over ticky tack bullshit. Never been more embarrassed for my school just rolling over.
The only way that this makes any modicum of sense is if Harbaugh has informed the school that he won’t be coming back next year and we are using this as a tryout for Sherrone Moore. Even if that is the case they still shouldn’t have gone down without a fight.
I've seen this said in a couple of places and the obvious counter-argument is that this was obviously done by a commissioner who was feeling pressured by other AD's (OSU/MSU) and acted hastily based off of their whining. Clearly, OSU is in his ear and he is acting as their puppet. We also know that OSU will take any advantage they can going into The Game so if Petitti will cave easily to pressure why would they just sit back and let Michigan negotiate it down?
If Michigan tries to do that expect to see more drip-drip news stories that don't change any of the facts and expect another conference call where Ryan Day cries for the "safety of his players" and also expect Petitti's dumbass to eat it up like the moron he is.
I think the window for negotiating went out the window when Petitti came to Ann Arbor begging for an indefinite suspension and Ono laughed him out of town. Petitti is clearly OSU's lapdog. Now it's time to go fight it in court. Win or Lose it's also time to start taking calls from the SEC or contemplating going independent. This conference has shown its true colors and there is no reason to continue forward with the B1G unless serious changes are made at the top of the organization starting with Petitti.
The “WIN A GAME” from that clip gets me every time.
Couldn’t agree more. ACC is a dying conference, Clemson and FSU are planning their escapes as we speak. Go to the conference with the best athletics that doesn’t intentionally sabotage their own. Go to the SEC. Michigan will be an elite academic school no matter where they go. Might as well go to the conference with the best football.
My exact thought. I respect the SEC for this.
“Oh you are trying to cannibalize one of your own. Well let me just help you along with that. I would love to get an extra team into the CFP. Here’s the evidence you requested”
Sankey trying to fight back his laughing as Petitti thanks him for his help.
Holy crap where did we find this Petitti guy?
F that go SEC. Michigan shouldn't join an athletics conference for academics. ACC will probably lose FSU and Clemson soon anyway. Go play football in the best conference.
I had Georgia flairs unironically telling me that a head coach is responsible for everything that happens at their program while also trying to frame what Michigan did as “institutional cheating” and what Georgia did “kids being stupid” (even though it was a staffer driving the car).
r/CFB, as well as Reddit as a whole, is a collection of people who think they are smarter than they really are even on the best of days. These last two weeks that place might as well be renamed “eleven red cedar warriors message boards”.