Stolen Signs and Injuries (i.e. the MSU Complaint), Revisited
In the maelstrom of the past two weeks let's not forget that have Allen Haller saying this:
Haller worried about players potentially getting hurt because Michigan players, in theory, knew where they'd be going on plays," Thamel wrote.
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/michigan-state/spartans/2023…
We all kind of shrugged that off as complaining, right? Ok, so why is that relevant? Because, now we have this:
However, an Illinois staffer from last season where Ryan Walters was the defensive coordinator, has confirmed to The Wolverine that Walters and Illinois had stolen Michigan’s offensive signals last season.
https://gbmwolverine.com/2023/11/06/illinois-used-stolen-signals-agains…
I think we will all remember that Michigan lost someone pretty important in that game to a (basically) season ending injury that derailed a Heisman Trophy candidacy. So, if the Haller argument is going to stick out there as something that gained (at least some) traction, I look forward to the media tracking down this path against Illinois and an ACTUAL injury from a game with an opponent who stole Michigan's signs (with collaboration from other Big Ten teams).
November 6th, 2023 at 6:32 PM ^
And apologies for the unlinked links. I absolutely thought I did that right, but... I used the wrong feature. My apologies and I'll take my deserved negs. So... links:
P.S. - I wish generating forum topics had a "preview" function like the old days...
November 6th, 2023 at 7:15 PM ^
Bring back Haloscan!I wish generating forum topics had a "preview" function like the old days...
November 6th, 2023 at 6:34 PM ^
I saw the sign
And it opened up my eyes
And I am happy now living without you
I left you ow oooow oooooooow
November 6th, 2023 at 6:35 PM ^
I'm tired of all of this.
Everyone needs to shut up and play the goddamn games.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:38 PM ^
then I have some really unfortunate news for you....
November 6th, 2023 at 6:38 PM ^
No. Fuck that. They brought it up, they wanted to talk about it, SO LET'S FUCKING TALK ABOUT IT.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:40 PM ^
We're just fans.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:36 PM ^
This confirms what I read here last night. Michigan has some information to share similar to the charges that have been made against us. Glad to see that coming true.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:37 PM ^
i'm still waiting for the big ten to ask Michigan if they feel safe playing PSU on Saturday. I'm sure that call will come any time now.....
November 6th, 2023 at 7:12 PM ^
That asshole put his head on Corums knee McGahee style.
November 7th, 2023 at 8:37 AM ^
He made a tackle. You're insane if you think that was on purpose/dirty.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:38 PM ^
Interesting how you can put those two things together and despite Haller being an asshat for even suggesting it given (waves hand at last year), it also looks like some shade at another school.
"We know Illinois had M's signals, because we were all talking about it, and they ended BC2's season. I'm worried they might hurt one of our guys now that they know we know, and they knew we knew."
(pearl clutch and sparty commits another potentially paralyzing hit)
November 6th, 2023 at 6:39 PM ^
I think Michigan is pushing back so hard on this because they have dirt that numerous other schools have done the exact same thing and/or worse.
Gonna play the old “if you try to suspend Harbaugh, you better be ready to suspend half the B1G coaches.”
plays well with the “let all the info come out before acting” Santa was talking about. Due process, etc.
Michigan may have laid a multi-year trap that’s about to blow up in a lot of schools faces, including Petitti and the B1Gs. Petitti may have to pivot from “punish Michigan” to “what the fuck are all you folks doing” particularly if it comes out Michigan is the least “involved” in all these shady shenanigans.
Michigan may have just been like “if everyone else is doing, hire that crazy Stalions kid to do it too.”
November 6th, 2023 at 6:47 PM ^
People keep saying this all over the site, that UM must have dirt on the other schools that they're getting ready to unload whenever it suits. But if that's the case, and the other schools are pressuring the B1G into moving ahead with a punishment of Harbaugh, doubling down on the pearl clutching, etc., then how the hell did they think this was going to end? I mean, maybe some of the people involved are that stupid, but you'd have to be really stupid to be throwing stones from inside your glass house, knowing your house was glass and that the guy you were throwing stones at had his own pile ready and waiting.
Am I missing something? Are the other schools involved really that thick, or is this wishful Michigan fan thinking?
November 6th, 2023 at 6:50 PM ^
They thought they could media blitz us and force the big ten into "DOING SOMETHING" quickly. It didn't work.
If you recall, it was rumored at the beginning of all this that the NCAA didn't even want to bother with this, and is only looking into it because of the media leaks and outrage. It's all a failed smear campaign.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:59 PM ^
This, right here sums it all up.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:32 PM ^
I also think that it's not a coincidence that the information leaked out between Harbaugh coming back from his suspension and the release of the first CFP rankings. Most, if not all of this information, was known during the off-season. If it was such a competitive advantage for Michigan, why wait until the season started to turn things over to the ncaa? Because there was no competitive advantage. Why wait until after the Harbaugh suspension? Because he's at his most vulnerable, both to the ncaa and in the court of public opinion. Why right before the release of the playoffs? Because it generates the most buzz throughout the sports world and creates the most outrage. How can you have cheaters in the playoffs? Immediate action has to be taken.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:58 PM ^
My theory is Michigan, with good reason, is viewed as the team that will lay down and take it to save face and try hold themselves to a higher standard. Fortunately, I think that was a swing and a miss.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:19 PM ^
I know this is a sport blog, but look to what is happening in Washington and capitals around the world. This type of cynical misdirection is just another day at the office. Whip your tribe/base into a frenzy and abandon any semblance of interest in the truth.
Faith in institutions, in the rule of law, in due process all begin with a rigorous pursuit of truth. This isn't just about football anymore -- this is about fighting for truth and the fidelity of institutions and institutional leadership.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:49 PM ^
This is Michigan repaying Jim Harbaugh for the 2020 situation which I'm not going to rehash. This is Michigan saying, "Jim sorry we should've backed you in 2020, 100%".
Now having said that I don't think Michigan would've taken this position if they felt like Jim had anything to do with this or that it wasn't silly....because it's silly.
Everyone has everyone signs & everyone knows that everyone has everyone signs so lets slap Michigan on the wrist, tear up the rule, and move on.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:42 PM ^
Protip, don't ever try to use MSU logic to make an argument.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:51 PM ^
They are valuable in identifying that two identical pictures are in fact of the same person. But, put a hat and sunglasses (ie, a real deep / advanced spy craft disguise) on a guy in one of the pictures and all bets are off.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:36 PM ^
Never go full Sparty. You don't want to go full Sparty.
Edit: this time with pics
November 6th, 2023 at 6:44 PM ^
Ryan Walters coward handshake coming full circle.
" just calling a spade a spade "
November 6th, 2023 at 6:44 PM ^
This whole thing is becoming an article out of The Onion.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:52 PM ^
We wish we could make this shit up-The Onion
November 6th, 2023 at 6:45 PM ^
Let’s not contort ourselves to find ways to justify Haller’s moronic commentary.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:45 PM ^
Thank you. Illinois did not attempt to injure Blake Corum. Knowing Michigan's playcalls, if they did, is on Michigan, not them. And even if Michigan failed to adapt, "Michigan's giving the ball to Blake Corum" was pretty damned obvious. MSU's players were perfectly safe on the field against Michigan -- sadly, the reverse was not true.
Let's not dive into this cesspool.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:46 PM ^
I think all this is a last gas effort by Michigan. It’s an “everyone comin down with me” situation that won’t hold water. Stealing signals is legal. They gave this information to the BIG on Friday and over the weekend and still got hit with a notice. That tells me that it didn’t fly w the BIG or they just don’t care and will out Michigan (Harbaugh) regardless.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:51 PM ^
Color me surprised at your skepticism.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:55 PM ^
You need to step away from the Internet for a while.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:56 PM ^
My theory is that every team figured Michigan would just self-impose like they have in the past.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:58 PM ^
"last gas effort"
November 6th, 2023 at 7:36 PM ^
Sure. You let out some gas and that's why everyone has to gasp.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:14 PM ^
Sharing your opponent signal intel with other schools? Combining all the intel into a set of documents and sharing with multiple schools, that doesn't hold water? My opinion is that is far worse than what Stalions did.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:46 PM ^
Haller worried about players potentially getting hurt
If Haller is so worried about player safety he ought to keep his players from spearing a defenseless Michigan player laying face down. There was nothing related to football in that play, just a blatant attempt to injury an opponent.
Edit: sorry to have offended DarkerBlue's sensibilities. I've changed it to a link.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:49 PM ^
There is a goddamn link button. Use it.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:20 PM ^
November 6th, 2023 at 6:47 PM ^
Sparty gonna Spart.
So you’re going to Spart too?
I’m sitting out that crusade. It was asinine when Sparty said it; it’s still asinine now.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:53 PM ^
We know that wristbands can mitigate the risks of having signs stolen. Wristbands require a certain degree of reading ability. Is it any wonder that one of the places where they don't go to play school would need to find another approach?
November 6th, 2023 at 7:01 PM ^
Right. And it’s no coincidence that we used wrist bands against… Ryan Walters.
November 6th, 2023 at 6:58 PM ^
Why did no Ann Arbor media ask Ryan Walters, during his fit of "honesty" in his post game press conference, about this? This must have been known at the time and would have made for some decent fodder for our side.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:02 PM ^
In theory any team that steals signs has the ability to hurt a player. No worry about misdirection or play action. You can just haul it to where the player will be. Arriving with more speed and force.
You would think there would be more interceptions as well. if you know a 10 yard out is coming you should be able to jump it.
November 6th, 2023 at 8:27 PM ^
like TCU?
rumors that OSU shared info with TCU
November 6th, 2023 at 7:16 PM ^
Something I find odd about the whole "sign stealing leads to injuries" idea is that, in practice, you run a bunch of full-contact drills in which both sides know exactly what the other is going to do. Or at least that used to be the case.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:21 PM ^
Careful. Reason not with Spartys, lest ye become a Sparty. And if you gaze into the Spart, the Spart gazes also into you.
November 6th, 2023 at 7:34 PM ^
Gee, it is a pass play. I could either tip the ball away or I could injure someone. I think I will injure someone that I wouldn't injure if I didn't know the play. Thought no one ever.
The second before every injury, doesn't everyone know what is the play?