OK...was reading the post about Auburn...and then I thought, well, maybe they recruit much better at Auburn than us since they are in the SEC, and I spent the last hour putting this info together based on star averages per player for the last decade from 247:
Michigan Recruiting (Avg. Rating 247 Composite)
2022---.8882
2021---.8999
2020---.9034
2019---.9078 (Citrus Bowl)
2018---.8875 (Peach Bowl)
2017---.9120 (Outback Bowl)
2016---.8986 (Orange Bowl)
2015---.8781 (Citrus Bowl)
2014---.8990
2013---.9095 (BWW Bowl)
Avg. = 89.84
Auburn Recruiting (Avg. Rating 247 Composite)---Auburn has beaten Alabama 3 of 8 times in this period of the Iron Bowl
2022---.8880
2021---.8838
2020---.9092 (Citrus Bowl)
2019---.9116 (Outback Bowl)
2018---.9022 (Music City Bowl)
2017---.8934 (Peach Bowl)
2016---.9065 (Sugar Bowl)
2015---.9016 (Birmingham Bowl)
2014---.8878 (Outback Bowl).
2013---.8912 (BCS NC Game)
AVG. = 89.75
Auburn actually recruited WORSE than us during this decade, yet still somehow beat Alabama 3 times in 8 opportunities.
To me, that's coaching and lack of development. Same level talent throughout the decade, yet we are 0-fer the decade. There's no excuse....Bama is better than OSU.
I honestly can't imagine losing to MSU this year...but then I couldn't believe it last season.
Never thought we would be in this position after bringing Jim in. I am at the point where whatever has to be done to turn around the program, I will accept it.
Just feels like a malaise has fallen over the program. Something has to change.
Since our average historical record is about 9-3, I never expected him to be above that every year, and knew there might even be down years every now and then (7-5, etc.).
But you at least expect a great season every once in awhile, 11-1 etc. where we beat OSU, and have a chance to win the B1G and get in the playoff/New Years Six bowl.
To me, those are reasonable expectations of a blue blood even in today's changed recruiting world.
To me it is where Michigan should be...essentially where Iowa State is today...even though they lost to Oklahoma they had a shot at the crown and now will play in a Big Six Bowl, even though they haven't won a conference title since 1912. We are Michigan...we should at least be able to do what Iowa State does.
The biggest problem is that I no longer believe Jim can get us there....which is why I am not sure I can be convinced that no matter what the staffing changes are that this is a good idea.
I suppose 10-2 would be a start, in answer to your question. But I just think this extension is a bad idea.
So since you want your buddy Jimmy back for an extension of who knows how many years, why doesn't he do something about it?
He was brought here to defeat the "death machine" as you call it, and here we are....
Most of us are unhappy with where the program is, but you seem just fine and contented.
And willing to bitch and snipe at how well OSU is treated, while your hero takes us to a 2-4 season and you want an EXTENSION.
Wayne Duke is dead. The 21-day rule is ridiculously stupid and even HIGH SCHOOLS don't follow that. OSU or not, it should have been changed. And if OSU is being rewarded in general, it is because they have shown elite play over the past decade. I don't like it, but it is true.
Which is why your boy Jimmy was brought here, to bring us to a level of elite play.
It's a shame that it is clearly time for a change, and we are about to see a 3-year extension and people like you are OK with this mediocrity.
I like the Math side of it as we have a historical winning % of .727, which is one of the best in CFB. So our "average" season is what most schools wish they could have, I grant you after 125 years plus..
With that said, in my mind:
12-0 = outstanding
11-1 = excellent
10-2 = very good/above average
9-3 = average
8-4 = below average/poor
7-5 = very poor
6-6 or lower = terrible
So how has Harbaugh stacked up (who we thought was our best option)?
2015-10-3 (above average) .769
2016-10-3 (above average) .769
2017-8-5 (poor) .615
2018-10-3 (above average) .769
2019-9-4 (below average) .692
2020-2-4 (terrible) .333
In short, if "elite" is 12-0 or 11-1 and the concept is "for one year", I think the answer is "YES". But if anyone means for a sustained period of time like Alabama, I say "NO", not in the Big Ten East.
Indiana just shut down for COVID outbreak...so there goes the "better job overall of keeping the team healthy" idea.
Can't hate OSU anymore than I do. But they beat Indiana head-to-head when Penix WAS playing. we all know who the better team is. Having someone else represent the East would make that B1G Ten Title a joke.
And I still value a B1G Ten Title.....would be nice to win one again!
And one last thing regarding this comment: "Look this “season” has been a complete failure. But, it isn’t real."
This whole "season isn't real" mantra has been cooked up by you and other Harbaugh apologists to ensure that no matter how ridiculous the results this year, that it wasn't fair to assess him due to the COVID pandemic. That also does not fit with any real-world logic.
Reality is if Jimmy were still playing for Bo, and was playing like shit, Bo would have pulled his ass and sat him on the bench. Just like this season, when Milton was playing like crap and Harbaugh benched him.
But for some reason with you people, no matter how bad the dumpster fire is in totality, Harbaugh can never be criticized or touched, even though all logic and past practice says you NEVER give an extension to someone who has under-performed expectations.
Yet here we are....and now you know why I say all you "true believers" are crazy.
No, what is ridiculous is your stance/position, which by your own admission is based on nothing other than your "beliefs". You believe Harbaugh will turn it around...you believe Harbaugh is better than Kelly....etc etc.
The problem with "true believers" is that they have no empirical proof to back up their assertions. They just "believe" even when all logic and reason show otherwise. This is where you and all Harbaugh apologists are, believing something that goes against all common sense.
As much as I hate Brian Kelly, at least by year 3 he had that team finish with a undefeated 12-0 regular season and played for a National Championship against Alabama. Granted, Alabama trounced them (which I enjoyed), but at least they PLAYED for a National Title. Under Harbaugh, we haven't even been able to play in a B1G Ten Title game, much less a National Championship/Playoff game. So it was logical the Irish fans gave Kelly a year to turn things around, as he had taken them to the Title game at least. We have no such data points with Harbaugh.
If you want to be a "Harbaugh true believer" then you have ever right to as an American, but recognize you are flying against all logic.
I too have sat through now 40 years of football at the Big House (great memories of going with my Dad as a kid), and am a proud alum. But my Michigan education tells me that this is a TERRIBLE decision, which will only prolong the agony. We are better off to move on....
And the last portion about Don Brown, LOL...First, he should have been fired years ago. BUT, what proof do you have that anyone Harbaugh hires will do the job. He has been turning over position coaches and coordinators like a McDonald's operator and the situation continues to worsen. So, you must also "believe" he will make the right hires as well even though evidence tells you otherwise.
Sorry, but to me, all of you "true believers" are crazy, and are leading this program to its final death knell as a true blueblood program. We can't say we are "Leaders and Best", if we are satiated by mediocrity.
I am calling you and all the other Harbaugh apologists crazy. Every single one of you.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
This is you right now....you know how the rest of this tenure will end, just like you knew Warde wouldn't ever fire his teammate. We are looking at our own John Cooper, except Cooper actually won a couple. It's the same thing, over and over. No QB development, shitty defensive and offensive play calling and schemes, no RB development, under-used, under developed WRs, no passion on the sidelines from anyone.
Over and over and over again. Yet you (and others) are for another 4 years (total) of this.
Not to mention mediocrity against MSU, terrible bowl record, no titles, near zero success against Top 10 teams.
It's the definition of insanity, and all of you in favor of it are insane yourselves.
Grew up watching Bo. Was fired up when Jimmy signed on at first. But it is not working...and you know it.
This whole thing is insane. Those animals in Columbus are probably celebrating in disbelief that our administration would be this stupid.
But they are not stupid. They are crazy. Like you and every UM fan that believes as you do.
Here is the past, present and future of our recruiting in a 10-Year snapshot (so as to include the end of Hoke's years).
Takeaways:
1. Michigan recruiting has been remarkably stable during that time.
2. Even with the rumors about Harbaugh's potential departure, recruiting has still been stable, and even when Hoke was fired, there was nothing more than a minor drop in recruiting talent during that time.
3. Therefore, those that worry that we will "return to the years of RR", have fears that seem to be statistically unfounded.
4. With this year almost guaranteed to be a losing season (barring a miracle), then we can look statistically at another school that is similar and look to their results to see if there has been a significant lack of production:
Auburn Recruiting (Avg. Rating 247 Composite)---Auburn has beaten Alabama 3 of 8 times in this period of the Iron Bowl
2022---.8832
2021---.8992
2020---.9092
2019---.9116 (Outback Bowl)
2018---.9022 (Music City Bowl)
2017---.8934 (Peach Bowl)
2016---.9065 (Sugar Bowl)
2015---.9016 (Birmingham Bowl)
2014---.8878 (Outback Bowl)
2013---.8912 (BCS NC Game)
Auburn Record vs. main rival (Alabama---who has recruited better than OSU during this time): 3-5
Losing Seasons: 0
Divisional Titles: 2
Conference Titles: 1
Bowl Record in those games listed above: 2-5
We know the stats for us in this area....they are worse.
All stats point to us having equal recruiting to Auburn yet less results both against our rival and overall.
Now the culture has disintegrated and former players and current parents are putting the HC and staff on blast for how the program is run.
It's definitely time for a change....the data is there. I had high hopes for Jim, as we all did. But it is just not working.
And one last thing.....in terms of THE GAME, if we play the game this year (that's a big IF), and lose as most expect, Jim will be the first coach in the history of either program to start 0-6.
That's 110+ games, and even John Cooper started out 0-5-1 and then eventually won one (I remember laughing thinking, well, he had to get one eventually)
It's just unthinkable. We hired him to take us back to the top, and he could end up being the worst Head Coach in the 110+ year history of THE GAME.
Just got online after watching that first half, and wanted to check the halftime stats, because I kept asking myself "Was that half of football REALLY as bad as I think or am I just exaggerating it in my mind?"
First Downs:
PSU----15
Michigan----5
We had only FIVE first downs against an 0-5 team. I'm speechless thinking about it.
And our Defense gave up 15 first downs to that same 0-5 team.
I worry about Petersen, because if Washington burned him out, how will he handle Michigan?
BUT....he did beat both Oklahoma and TCU in those 2 Fiesta Bowls, and was incredibly successful at Boise.
His OC for those wins was Bryan Harsin, Boise's current coach.
Harsin is only 44, won a conference title in his one year at Arkansas State, and has won 5 division titles and 3 conference titles in his first 6 years at Boise.
Not a whiff of scandal, and can convince/recruit players to go live in BOISE, IDAHO.
Pay him 4/5 million a year, with a HUGE pool for assistants.
The reason Harbaugh is struggling is because he has a Bo mentality---football X's and O's first, recruiting second. Example #1: Don Brown.
That is NOT the modern game......recruiting is #1, #1A and #1B. Why do you think OSU spends their first hour of coaches meetings EVERY day on nothing but recruiting? Does anyone really think Kerry Coombs is an elite coach? No. He is a KILLER recruiter, and a good coach. That's what it takes.
Get a young, energetic, hungry guy like Harsin. Give him a ton of cash to get the best recruiters on the planet, and let the chips fall where they may.
And Coach Harbaugh has a 10-14 record against AP Top 25 teams since taking over here.
With all our tradition, and an elite university, in a great college town. We are a blue blood. Recruiting is easy here.
Campbell is recruiting in AMES, IOWA. It's amazing he has ANY top 25 wins trying to recruit college players to go there. No legacy of success, little NFL development, in the middle of a corn field.
When people on here starting talking about Campbell, I started doing a little research online about him, and found an interesting article about him in the Toledo Blade (look it up...it is Sept. 23, 2015).
I can't open it up now, because it is paywall blocked, but as I remember it, Meyer wanted to hire Campbell as his OC, and Campbell turned it down to be HC at Toledo. (Meyer hired Tom Herman).
In the article, I believe Meyer called Campbell "a future superstar in the coaching ranks".
As much as I hate Meyer, that was all I needed to hear. Anybody that scumbag DOESN'T want to be the Head Coach at Michigan is someone I am OK with being the HC.
Doesn't mean he will get the job or that I am going to be upset if he doesn't get it. Just that he is good enough to be our coach...and having to coach at Iowa State doesn't change that.
I talked to two buddies of mine (both OSU fans), and they also said they 100% didn't want Campbell at UM.
I just want someone that the trash to the south will fear and know we can beat them, and return this rivalry back into a legitimate rivalry.
Love Jim Harbaugh as he is one of us, but if he decides not to come back after this contract, I am OK with hiring Campbell.
"It seems like Ohio State coaches recruit like their life depends on it."
It's funny you say that....one of my buddies is an Ohio HS Head Coach. When Meyer took the job down there, he invited me to go to their State Clinic to hear them and a bunch of other coaches from across the country speak. So I went.
Synopsis from Meyer: 1. Recruiting is the #1 thing we do, not coaching, not game-planning. Recruiting. If you aren't an elite recruiter, you can't work at Ohio State. 2. Their plan was to take 7 to 10 FB players from Ohio AND recruit Michigan HARD because "those kids understand the rivalry". 3. No matter how well the team does, your salary is determined by how well you RECRUIT. Recruit great, big raise....recruit like shit, no raise. 4. If it is 2 AM and you are lying in bed with your wife and a recruit calls you, you better pick up that phone. 5. Every day we have our coaches meetings in the morning, the first HOUR is all about recruiting. First thing we do. Every day. Not practice planning, not game planning. Recruiting.
I gotta admit, it shook me up, because this is when I knew we were in trouble. Hoke was a great guy and a very good recruiter, but Meyer was at a different level. A do or die level.
And who has been trained by Meyer? Ryan Day.
So when I heard recently that our staff isn't having daily recruiting meetings (whether that is true or not), it worries me...I won't lie. Hopefully, that's not true. And I recently read that since the start of this pandemic that Coach Harbaugh has made 300 phone calls to recruits. So that is good.
FWIW, I think we should look at elite recruiting schools and see what they are doing. Hell, talk to Mack Brown. In one year, he has already started to turn around NC recruiting in a BIG way. If nothing else, try to make sure we are "cutting edge".
After all, to me, that is what "Leaders and Best" is all about. Innovation. And I'm hoping we do all that WITH Jim Harbaugh remaining our Head Coach, because he does a lot of things the RIGHT way.
AT OHIO STATE. LOSS. JFC, we haven't won in Columbus since 2000...what a shitty 20 year stretch
Worst case: 7-5
Expectation: 9-3
Best case: 11-1
After getting jobbed in Columbus in 2016, and considering the talent gap, I only feel we have a reasonable shot at them at home (that said, this last year was...uh...not so good).
Anyway, another 9-3 year IMO. ESPN saying 4 wins is our floor is RIDICULOUS.
Things would have to go off the rails for that to happen.
Option 1-Petersen is taking a year off and will be available. At Boise, he went 92-12, including 5 conference titles and a 5-2 record in bowls. Won 11 or more games 6 of his 8 seasons there. At Washington, cleaned up Steve Sarkisian's mess, and then in his 3rd year, made the Pac 12 Championship game 3 years in a row winning twice. Is a West Coast guy, and was paid $4.375 million this year.
Let him get a year of rest, and if Harbaugh struggles and leaves, offer Petersen $6 million, which is still less than the $7.5M we are paying Jim.
Option 2-Offer his replacement at Boise, Bryan Harsin, who learned from Petersen. In his HC Career, his teams have played in the Conference title game 6 out of 7 times, including 3 Conference Championships. He s currently 64-17 at Boise, going 3-2 in bowls.
Harsin is making $1.75 M at Boise right now....again, he is mainly a West Coast guy in his career like Peterson. But if Petersen says no, offer Harsin $5 M and we still save money, which can be given to Assistants and more support staff.
Giving these two guys Michigan's giant support staff (the biggest in the Big Ten), as well as all of our resources, financially, recruiting and otherwise, and we not only would not fall backwards in my opinion, but bring in some fresh ideas that might help us beat those losers to our South.
L to Wisconsin. (They are bringing back 9 of 11 on defense, and 7 of 11 on offense)
L @ tOSU. (Don't care who they are losing, they are a pain in the ass).
Big Six bowl game. (Would love to go back to the Rose Bowl, but know it probably won't happen. Haven't been to a Cotton Bowl, so would be good with going there!)
Right. But Auburn does the same thing for Alabama, and has the same "talent gap" vs. Alabama, yet Auburn is 4-6 in the Iron Bowl this decade, while we are 1-9.
Look, I do NOT want Harbaugh to go. But player development from his assistant coaches has to be looked at. As well as coaching and culture.
There is no reason Gene Chizik (3 yrs) & Gus Malzahn (7) should be 4-6 against Nick Saban and we should be 1-9 vs. the 4 Ohio State coaches. Malzahn has 3 of those 4 wins BTW.
We can beat those dirt bags. Jim has to figure it out....if Auburn can do it, so can we.
Seen people on here talking about how he needs to be more explosive.
As we all remember, the word floating around 2 weeks ago was that ZC and his family were contemplating surgery that would keep him out a few weeks, but not the season. The coaches didn't want him to do the surgery prior to the Wisky game.
which is fine...but a surgery like that sounds like a knee cartilage clean out. And i shake my head at the announcers who were complaining that he was not shaking tacklers.
He delayed the surgery for the team. Without question he is playing hurt. It's all about pain tolerance for him right now.
None of us should expect him to be "elusive" again until he gets the surgery done.
Whether the coaches telling him to hold off on the surgery was the right call is another conversation.
I just think we should be fair to ZC. He is sucking it up for his teammates, as I'm sure others are as well.
Recent Comments
I was going to upvote you, but for some reason, I can't encourage people to be testicle perforators.
OK...was reading the post about Auburn...and then I thought, well, maybe they recruit much better at Auburn than us since they are in the SEC, and I spent the last hour putting this info together based on star averages per player for the last decade from 247:
Michigan Recruiting (Avg. Rating 247 Composite)
2022---.8882
2021---.8999
2020---.9034
2019---.9078 (Citrus Bowl)
2018---.8875 (Peach Bowl)
2017---.9120 (Outback Bowl)
2016---.8986 (Orange Bowl)
2015---.8781 (Citrus Bowl)
2014---.8990
2013---.9095 (BWW Bowl)
Avg. = 89.84
Auburn Recruiting (Avg. Rating 247 Composite)---Auburn has beaten Alabama 3 of 8 times in this period of the Iron Bowl
2022---.8880
2021---.8838
2020---.9092 (Citrus Bowl)
2019---.9116 (Outback Bowl)
2018---.9022 (Music City Bowl)
2017---.8934 (Peach Bowl)
2016---.9065 (Sugar Bowl)
2015---.9016 (Birmingham Bowl)
2014---.8878 (Outback Bowl).
2013---.8912 (BCS NC Game)
AVG. = 89.75
Auburn actually recruited WORSE than us during this decade, yet still somehow beat Alabama 3 times in 8 opportunities.
To me, that's coaching and lack of development. Same level talent throughout the decade, yet we are 0-fer the decade. There's no excuse....Bama is better than OSU.
God...that flashback sucks from the South Carolina game.
I remember the look on McKeon's face made me sick to my stomach.
Why would Jim put him in a position like that.
I had planned to fly down for the game, but changed my mind to save some money.
So glad I didn't fly all the way down there to see that collapse. Sickening.
Agreed...pay him. Have to wonder if they would be willing to give him a $250K raise. One of the advantages of being Michigan.
And smart business by him by following some of our guys on Twitter. Sends a clear message to the UK AD that he is interested in us.
Either way, this dude wins. He gets a $200K + raise with with us or with them.
Hopefully, it's us.
Your statement above is reasonable.
I honestly can't imagine losing to MSU this year...but then I couldn't believe it last season.
Never thought we would be in this position after bringing Jim in. I am at the point where whatever has to be done to turn around the program, I will accept it.
Just feels like a malaise has fallen over the program. Something has to change.
This is actually an interesting one...
Think his brother was Jim Heacock who was the Def. Coordinator at OSU for Tressel after Dantonio left. So good pedigree...
Last year his defense at ISU:
NCAA STATS (ISU played 11 games):
-Rush Defense----#10 in the country (104.6 YPG)
-Pass Eff. Defense-----#59 (133.84 YPG)
-Total Defense---#29 (343 YPG)
Not saying he should get it, but when you consider all the factors, I would hope Warde would at least interview him.
Hell, he can't be making much at ISU. (EDIT: He made $850,000 in 2019, but took a pay cut for Corona this year).
Right now, Dabo's behavior reminds me of a phrase my Grandpa always said: "A scared dog barks the loudest."
Don't know why he is barking like this...I personally think Clemson will handle them.
Or maybe I am just hoping that is the case....sure don't want to see those dirtbags in the NC game again.
Since our average historical record is about 9-3, I never expected him to be above that every year, and knew there might even be down years every now and then (7-5, etc.).
But you at least expect a great season every once in awhile, 11-1 etc. where we beat OSU, and have a chance to win the B1G and get in the playoff/New Years Six bowl.
To me, those are reasonable expectations of a blue blood even in today's changed recruiting world.
To me it is where Michigan should be...essentially where Iowa State is today...even though they lost to Oklahoma they had a shot at the crown and now will play in a Big Six Bowl, even though they haven't won a conference title since 1912. We are Michigan...we should at least be able to do what Iowa State does.
The biggest problem is that I no longer believe Jim can get us there....which is why I am not sure I can be convinced that no matter what the staffing changes are that this is a good idea.
I suppose 10-2 would be a start, in answer to your question. But I just think this extension is a bad idea.
So since you want your buddy Jimmy back for an extension of who knows how many years, why doesn't he do something about it?
He was brought here to defeat the "death machine" as you call it, and here we are....
Most of us are unhappy with where the program is, but you seem just fine and contented.
And willing to bitch and snipe at how well OSU is treated, while your hero takes us to a 2-4 season and you want an EXTENSION.
Wayne Duke is dead. The 21-day rule is ridiculously stupid and even HIGH SCHOOLS don't follow that. OSU or not, it should have been changed. And if OSU is being rewarded in general, it is because they have shown elite play over the past decade. I don't like it, but it is true.
Which is why your boy Jimmy was brought here, to bring us to a level of elite play.
It's a shame that it is clearly time for a change, and we are about to see a 3-year extension and people like you are OK with this mediocrity.
I like the Math side of it as we have a historical winning % of .727, which is one of the best in CFB. So our "average" season is what most schools wish they could have, I grant you after 125 years plus..
With that said, in my mind:
12-0 = outstanding
11-1 = excellent
10-2 = very good/above average
9-3 = average
8-4 = below average/poor
7-5 = very poor
6-6 or lower = terrible
So how has Harbaugh stacked up (who we thought was our best option)?
2015-10-3 (above average) .769
2016-10-3 (above average) .769
2017-8-5 (poor) .615
2018-10-3 (above average) .769
2019-9-4 (below average) .692
2020-2-4 (terrible) .333
In short, if "elite" is 12-0 or 11-1 and the concept is "for one year", I think the answer is "YES". But if anyone means for a sustained period of time like Alabama, I say "NO", not in the Big Ten East.
But JMO...
Indiana just shut down for COVID outbreak...so there goes the "better job overall of keeping the team healthy" idea.
Can't hate OSU anymore than I do. But they beat Indiana head-to-head when Penix WAS playing. we all know who the better team is. Having someone else represent the East would make that B1G Ten Title a joke.
And I still value a B1G Ten Title.....would be nice to win one again!
And one last thing regarding this comment: "Look this “season” has been a complete failure. But, it isn’t real."
This whole "season isn't real" mantra has been cooked up by you and other Harbaugh apologists to ensure that no matter how ridiculous the results this year, that it wasn't fair to assess him due to the COVID pandemic. That also does not fit with any real-world logic.
Reality is if Jimmy were still playing for Bo, and was playing like shit, Bo would have pulled his ass and sat him on the bench. Just like this season, when Milton was playing like crap and Harbaugh benched him.
But for some reason with you people, no matter how bad the dumpster fire is in totality, Harbaugh can never be criticized or touched, even though all logic and past practice says you NEVER give an extension to someone who has under-performed expectations.
Yet here we are....and now you know why I say all you "true believers" are crazy.
No, what is ridiculous is your stance/position, which by your own admission is based on nothing other than your "beliefs". You believe Harbaugh will turn it around...you believe Harbaugh is better than Kelly....etc etc.
The problem with "true believers" is that they have no empirical proof to back up their assertions. They just "believe" even when all logic and reason show otherwise. This is where you and all Harbaugh apologists are, believing something that goes against all common sense.
As much as I hate Brian Kelly, at least by year 3 he had that team finish with a undefeated 12-0 regular season and played for a National Championship against Alabama. Granted, Alabama trounced them (which I enjoyed), but at least they PLAYED for a National Title. Under Harbaugh, we haven't even been able to play in a B1G Ten Title game, much less a National Championship/Playoff game. So it was logical the Irish fans gave Kelly a year to turn things around, as he had taken them to the Title game at least. We have no such data points with Harbaugh.
If you want to be a "Harbaugh true believer" then you have ever right to as an American, but recognize you are flying against all logic.
I too have sat through now 40 years of football at the Big House (great memories of going with my Dad as a kid), and am a proud alum. But my Michigan education tells me that this is a TERRIBLE decision, which will only prolong the agony. We are better off to move on....
And the last portion about Don Brown, LOL...First, he should have been fired years ago. BUT, what proof do you have that anyone Harbaugh hires will do the job. He has been turning over position coaches and coordinators like a McDonald's operator and the situation continues to worsen. So, you must also "believe" he will make the right hires as well even though evidence tells you otherwise.
Sorry, but to me, all of you "true believers" are crazy, and are leading this program to its final death knell as a true blueblood program. We can't say we are "Leaders and Best", if we are satiated by mediocrity.
I am calling you and all the other Harbaugh apologists crazy. Every single one of you.
“The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.”
This is you right now....you know how the rest of this tenure will end, just like you knew Warde wouldn't ever fire his teammate. We are looking at our own John Cooper, except Cooper actually won a couple. It's the same thing, over and over. No QB development, shitty defensive and offensive play calling and schemes, no RB development, under-used, under developed WRs, no passion on the sidelines from anyone.
Over and over and over again. Yet you (and others) are for another 4 years (total) of this.
Not to mention mediocrity against MSU, terrible bowl record, no titles, near zero success against Top 10 teams.
It's the definition of insanity, and all of you in favor of it are insane yourselves.
Grew up watching Bo. Was fired up when Jimmy signed on at first. But it is not working...and you know it.
This whole thing is insane. Those animals in Columbus are probably celebrating in disbelief that our administration would be this stupid.
But they are not stupid. They are crazy. Like you and every UM fan that believes as you do.
Agreed. Here are some stats for everyone....
Michigan Recruiting (Avg. Rating 247 Composite)
2022---.9003
2021---.9035
2020---.9034
2019---.9078 (Citrus Bowl)
2018---.8875 (Peach Bowl)
2017---.9120 (Outback Bowl)
2016---.8986 (Orange Bowl)
2015---.8781 (Citrus Bowl)
2014---.8990
2013---.9095 (BWW Bowl)
Here is the past, present and future of our recruiting in a 10-Year snapshot (so as to include the end of Hoke's years).
Takeaways:
1. Michigan recruiting has been remarkably stable during that time.
2. Even with the rumors about Harbaugh's potential departure, recruiting has still been stable, and even when Hoke was fired, there was nothing more than a minor drop in recruiting talent during that time.
3. Therefore, those that worry that we will "return to the years of RR", have fears that seem to be statistically unfounded.
4. With this year almost guaranteed to be a losing season (barring a miracle), then we can look statistically at another school that is similar and look to their results to see if there has been a significant lack of production:
Auburn Recruiting (Avg. Rating 247 Composite)---Auburn has beaten Alabama 3 of 8 times in this period of the Iron Bowl
2022---.8832
2021---.8992
2020---.9092
2019---.9116 (Outback Bowl)
2018---.9022 (Music City Bowl)
2017---.8934 (Peach Bowl)
2016---.9065 (Sugar Bowl)
2015---.9016 (Birmingham Bowl)
2014---.8878 (Outback Bowl)
2013---.8912 (BCS NC Game)
Auburn Record vs. main rival (Alabama---who has recruited better than OSU during this time): 3-5
Losing Seasons: 0
Divisional Titles: 2
Conference Titles: 1
Bowl Record in those games listed above: 2-5
We know the stats for us in this area....they are worse.
All stats point to us having equal recruiting to Auburn yet less results both against our rival and overall.
Now the culture has disintegrated and former players and current parents are putting the HC and staff on blast for how the program is run.
It's definitely time for a change....the data is there. I had high hopes for Jim, as we all did. But it is just not working.
And one last thing.....in terms of THE GAME, if we play the game this year (that's a big IF), and lose as most expect, Jim will be the first coach in the history of either program to start 0-6.
That's 110+ games, and even John Cooper started out 0-5-1 and then eventually won one (I remember laughing thinking, well, he had to get one eventually)
It's just unthinkable. We hired him to take us back to the top, and he could end up being the worst Head Coach in the 110+ year history of THE GAME.
Sigh...it's time. Sorry, Jim.
Just got online after watching that first half, and wanted to check the halftime stats, because I kept asking myself "Was that half of football REALLY as bad as I think or am I just exaggerating it in my mind?"
First Downs:
PSU----15
Michigan----5
We had only FIVE first downs against an 0-5 team. I'm speechless thinking about it.
And our Defense gave up 15 first downs to that same 0-5 team.
It's stunning how bad we are......
It's just so depressing and disappointing...
If I could possibly give this post 5 thumbs up for the "Frank Pentangeli" reference, I would. I literally did LOL.
I heard it and was in disbelief.
It's actually a lead story on 247 now.
"Blindsided"?????
Just started thinking about this game, after what happened yesterday.
Looked at the NCAA stats, and:
Indiana
Rushing Offense #73
Passing Offense #101
Rushing Defense #71
Passing Defense #16
So other than pass defense, they appear to be doing it with smoke and mirrors.
BTW, our stats are:
Rushing Offense #22
Passing Offense #30
Rushing Defense #33
Pass Defense #71
I worry…
Petersen or Harsin.
I worry about Petersen, because if Washington burned him out, how will he handle Michigan?
BUT....he did beat both Oklahoma and TCU in those 2 Fiesta Bowls, and was incredibly successful at Boise.
His OC for those wins was Bryan Harsin, Boise's current coach.
Harsin is only 44, won a conference title in his one year at Arkansas State, and has won 5 division titles and 3 conference titles in his first 6 years at Boise.
Not a whiff of scandal, and can convince/recruit players to go live in BOISE, IDAHO.
Pay him 4/5 million a year, with a HUGE pool for assistants.
The reason Harbaugh is struggling is because he has a Bo mentality---football X's and O's first, recruiting second. Example #1: Don Brown.
That is NOT the modern game......recruiting is #1, #1A and #1B. Why do you think OSU spends their first hour of coaches meetings EVERY day on nothing but recruiting? Does anyone really think Kerry Coombs is an elite coach? No. He is a KILLER recruiter, and a good coach. That's what it takes.
Get a young, energetic, hungry guy like Harsin. Give him a ton of cash to get the best recruiters on the planet, and let the chips fall where they may.
JMO.
Agreed. I'll take Bryan Harsin.
Outside of Harbaugh, who would I want my kid to play for?
1. Fitzgerald
2. Chryst
3. Ferentz-If no real racism in the program. Otherwise, no way.
4. Brohm
5. Frost
6. Lovie Smith
7. Fleck-His ridiculous antics drive me crazy, but he is doing a good job there.
8. Allen
9. Schiano
10. Tucker
11. Franklin-Dude is a snake. Could never trust him with my kid.
12. Locksley-Not a good coach, not a good person, doesn't develop talent. The trifecta.
No way I would ever want my kid to play for Ryan Day, so he doesn't even make the list....
And Coach Harbaugh…
Huh?
And Coach Harbaugh has a 10-14 record against AP Top 25 teams since taking over here.
With all our tradition, and an elite university, in a great college town. We are a blue blood. Recruiting is easy here.
Campbell is recruiting in AMES, IOWA. It's amazing he has ANY top 25 wins trying to recruit college players to go there. No legacy of success, little NFL development, in the middle of a corn field.
When people on here starting talking about Campbell, I started doing a little research online about him, and found an interesting article about him in the Toledo Blade (look it up...it is Sept. 23, 2015).
I can't open it up now, because it is paywall blocked, but as I remember it, Meyer wanted to hire Campbell as his OC, and Campbell turned it down to be HC at Toledo. (Meyer hired Tom Herman).
In the article, I believe Meyer called Campbell "a future superstar in the coaching ranks".
As much as I hate Meyer, that was all I needed to hear. Anybody that scumbag DOESN'T want to be the Head Coach at Michigan is someone I am OK with being the HC.
Doesn't mean he will get the job or that I am going to be upset if he doesn't get it. Just that he is good enough to be our coach...and having to coach at Iowa State doesn't change that.
I talked to two buddies of mine (both OSU fans), and they also said they 100% didn't want Campbell at UM.
I just want someone that the trash to the south will fear and know we can beat them, and return this rivalry back into a legitimate rivalry.
Love Jim Harbaugh as he is one of us, but if he decides not to come back after this contract, I am OK with hiring Campbell.
"to play with those neck things that you can pull up over your mouth "
I have seen the extra shields for helmets...not sure what this is. Anyone got a picture? How would they work with a helmet on?
And that is the same 38% who will refuse to take the vaccine.
It needs to stop, or this will go on indefinitely.
Sorry...just frustrated.
I agree with every single thing you said demardorsey. Hope you are right.
Thank You.
What's our final number look like for this class?
"It seems like Ohio State coaches recruit like their life depends on it."
It's funny you say that....one of my buddies is an Ohio HS Head Coach. When Meyer took the job down there, he invited me to go to their State Clinic to hear them and a bunch of other coaches from across the country speak. So I went.
Synopsis from Meyer: 1. Recruiting is the #1 thing we do, not coaching, not game-planning. Recruiting. If you aren't an elite recruiter, you can't work at Ohio State. 2. Their plan was to take 7 to 10 FB players from Ohio AND recruit Michigan HARD because "those kids understand the rivalry". 3. No matter how well the team does, your salary is determined by how well you RECRUIT. Recruit great, big raise....recruit like shit, no raise. 4. If it is 2 AM and you are lying in bed with your wife and a recruit calls you, you better pick up that phone. 5. Every day we have our coaches meetings in the morning, the first HOUR is all about recruiting. First thing we do. Every day. Not practice planning, not game planning. Recruiting.
I gotta admit, it shook me up, because this is when I knew we were in trouble. Hoke was a great guy and a very good recruiter, but Meyer was at a different level. A do or die level.
And who has been trained by Meyer? Ryan Day.
So when I heard recently that our staff isn't having daily recruiting meetings (whether that is true or not), it worries me...I won't lie. Hopefully, that's not true. And I recently read that since the start of this pandemic that Coach Harbaugh has made 300 phone calls to recruits. So that is good.
FWIW, I think we should look at elite recruiting schools and see what they are doing. Hell, talk to Mack Brown. In one year, he has already started to turn around NC recruiting in a BIG way. If nothing else, try to make sure we are "cutting edge".
After all, to me, that is what "Leaders and Best" is all about. Innovation. And I'm hoping we do all that WITH Jim Harbaugh remaining our Head Coach, because he does a lot of things the RIGHT way.
VS…
AT WASHINGTON. 50/50
Worst case: 7-5
Expectation: 9-3
Best case: 11-1
After getting jobbed in Columbus in 2016, and considering the talent gap, I only feel we have a reasonable shot at them at home (that said, this last year was...uh...not so good).
Anyway, another 9-3 year IMO. ESPN saying 4 wins is our floor is RIDICULOUS.
Things would have to go off the rails for that to happen.
and a well documented history of putting lives at risk just to have a football practice videotaped.
What a hero.
Agree with this 1000%
Agree with a lot on this list.
But Godfather 1
& Godfather 2
Everything stops....can cut the grass later.
Agreed. Although I'm not sure it was satisfying, but relief.
Was hoping denard would put 50 on them...
Remember me and my buddies in the stands saying "How are we gonna stop Miller just one time!"
Almost had a heart attack when he overthrew that long pass in the 4th qtr. Actually closed my eyes for a second. THANK YOU GOD, I remember saying.
Never, ever thought that would be the last home win in the series I would see this decade. Crazy.
Screw you Meyer. And Tressel. Here's hoping Fickell is their next coach after Day leaves.
Please tell me you are talking about Bama or Clemson or Georgia, and not that sewer in Columbus.
Agreed. Best of luck Raheem!
Get that UM degree and look forward to wearing the Winged helmet with pride!
This. Dad was a vet, uncle never made it out alive, Grandpa was a vet.
Still have a hard time with that scene
I personally have two replacements:
1. Chris Petersen
2. Bryan Harsin
Option 1-Petersen is taking a year off and will be available. At Boise, he went 92-12, including 5 conference titles and a 5-2 record in bowls. Won 11 or more games 6 of his 8 seasons there. At Washington, cleaned up Steve Sarkisian's mess, and then in his 3rd year, made the Pac 12 Championship game 3 years in a row winning twice. Is a West Coast guy, and was paid $4.375 million this year.
Let him get a year of rest, and if Harbaugh struggles and leaves, offer Petersen $6 million, which is still less than the $7.5M we are paying Jim.
Option 2-Offer his replacement at Boise, Bryan Harsin, who learned from Petersen. In his HC Career, his teams have played in the Conference title game 6 out of 7 times, including 3 Conference Championships. He s currently 64-17 at Boise, going 3-2 in bowls.
Harsin is making $1.75 M at Boise right now....again, he is mainly a West Coast guy in his career like Peterson. But if Petersen says no, offer Harsin $5 M and we still save money, which can be given to Assistants and more support staff.
Giving these two guys Michigan's giant support staff (the biggest in the Big Ten), as well as all of our resources, financially, recruiting and otherwise, and we not only would not fall backwards in my opinion, but bring in some fresh ideas that might help us beat those losers to our South.
JMO......
Warde will resign first. He wouldn't do that to his old teammate/buddy Jim.
No chance.
Don't think Warde doesn't remember what Bo said when everyone was calling for Lloyd Carr's head:
"If they want to get Lloyd Carr, they gotta go through me."
Warde will never terminate Jim. Never.
It's either 1. Jim leaves on his own or 2. The President/Board of Regents cans them both.
And #2 is a BIG move against two alumni who still have a lot of fans.....just sayin'
L to Wisconsin…
I got 10-2.
L to Wisconsin. (They are bringing back 9 of 11 on defense, and 7 of 11 on offense)
L @ tOSU. (Don't care who they are losing, they are a pain in the ass).
Big Six bowl game. (Would love to go back to the Rose Bowl, but know it probably won't happen. Haven't been to a Cotton Bowl, so would be good with going there!)
This is EXACTLY what I believe.....
Player ducks down, a 15 yard penalty and first down. No ejection.
The targeting like in the LSU/Oklahoma game...ejection with it.
We are ejecting too many players in football for what are not dirty hits.
15 yard penalty still sends a message to "keep your eyes and head up" when tackling without the extreme measure of ejection.
I hope this is what they go to...
Just a heads up. Young is gone next year, but Fields is back. Which absolutely blows, because I don't want to see any more of that kid.
That said, the rest is a good solid post, and I agree with it all...if JH leaves, it would be a disaster. Back to the drawing board. No thanks.
Auburn beating Alabama 4 out of 10 times in the last decade isn't "occasionally". It's called a RIVALRY.
Maybe we should be down there learning something from them instead of looking down our noses at them.
I'd like to get this back to a rivalry at some point, even if we are the "4" in 4/10. Low hanging fruit, I grant you, but it's better than 1-9.
Auburn disagrees with you...
Again, I say: Ask Auburn. And by ask, I hope Jim and the whole staff goes down to Auburn to visit with their staff to see what they do differently.
Auburn has been 4-6 vs. Bama this decade (bama's greatest decade EVER), while Bama's last 5 recruiting classes have been:
#1, #5, #1, #1, #1
That's crazy. But Auburn is damn near .500 against them while we are batting the Mendoza Line.
Learn from others and figure it out....
Right. But Auburn does the same thing for Alabama, and has the same "talent gap" vs. Alabama, yet Auburn is 4-6 in the Iron Bowl this decade, while we are 1-9.
Look, I do NOT want Harbaugh to go. But player development from his assistant coaches has to be looked at. As well as coaching and culture.
There is no reason Gene Chizik (3 yrs) & Gus Malzahn (7) should be 4-6 against Nick Saban and we should be 1-9 vs. the 4 Ohio State coaches. Malzahn has 3 of those 4 wins BTW.
We can beat those dirt bags. Jim has to figure it out....if Auburn can do it, so can we.
1. Good weather so we can pass the ball.
2. +2 or +3 in turnover margin.
3. front 7 have to have their BEST game and keep their running attack in check.
It CAN be done! Fumbling is in their heads now!
GO BLUE!
Was thinking the same thing.
go for it. Every time.
Thank you, Sten Carlson. Couldn't have said it better myself....
I, too, grew up watching the 10 Year War of Bo vs. Woody. It's in my blood.
I'll never give up on our Wolverines. Ever. I just can't, no matter what.
Good, bad or ugly...I was born a Michigan fan, and will die a Michigan fan.
Here's the thing about ZC...
Seen people on here talking about how he needs to be more explosive.
As we all remember, the word floating around 2 weeks ago was that ZC and his family were contemplating surgery that would keep him out a few weeks, but not the season. The coaches didn't want him to do the surgery prior to the Wisky game.
which is fine...but a surgery like that sounds like a knee cartilage clean out. And i shake my head at the announcers who were complaining that he was not shaking tacklers.
He delayed the surgery for the team. Without question he is playing hurt. It's all about pain tolerance for him right now.
None of us should expect him to be "elusive" again until he gets the surgery done.
Whether the coaches telling him to hold off on the surgery was the right call is another conversation.
I just think we should be fair to ZC. He is sucking it up for his teammates, as I'm sure others are as well.