Let's say this is JH's last year...
...for whatever reason: firing, end of contract, NFL offer, whatever. And we start looking for another coach.
What's your criteria?
Obviously, it cannot be just W-L record. Rich Rod had an 11-win season with the Mountaineers before coming here. Hoke had a 12 win season at Ball State and improved SDSU to 8-4 in his last year there (although I'm beginning to suspect his assistants had more to do with that). Harbaugh had more Ws than Ls, and he's still sitting at a 48-19 record (a record which lesser colleges would be more than happy to have).
So what are we missing when it comes to coach hires that, say, OSU, Bama, Clemson, etc., aren't?
November 1st, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
I want a coach that cares about winning and beating our rivals as much, or more than Charles Woodson does.
Mel Tucker knew this game would define his start at MSU. So did Tressel, Meyer, and Day. So did Year 1 Harbaugh. I don't know what the hell happened to him after Year 2.
November 1st, 2020 at 2:52 PM ^
Wow. Here we go with the "our rivals" bit. As if any coach "doesn't really care" about winning every game.
Do you think Harbaugh doesn't realize that he'll be judged by yesterday's outcome? Do you think RichRod "understood" the Notre Dame rivalry (2-1 record) but not the MSU rivalry (0-3)?
How 'bout we get a coach that likes to win games, period? Why obsess about just a couple of games on the schedule? Why not get up for all of them?
November 1st, 2020 at 3:05 PM ^
Well, he should've acted like it mattered. He sure as hell didn't coach like it was a rivalry game. And the team is ALWAYS flat in these big games (see Exhibits: OSU 2018/2019, ND 2018, State pretty much every year).
It's a simple fact that some games are more important than others. Michigan doesn't recognize this but their rivals do. And they laugh at us afterwards.
I don't care about beating the shit out of Nebraska, Maryland, Northwestern, etc. I'd gladly trade losses in those games for Ws over Michigan State, Ohio State and ND. In fact, I could accept losses to those rivals if Michigan actually played its ass off in those games and still lost. But, that never seems to happen. If Michigan goes 3-9 with the only 3 Ws against those teams I'd consider that a moderately successful season.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:43 PM ^
If Harbaugh cares more about this game and the OSU game he has a really weird way of showing it. His teams play some of their worst and most sloppy games of the year against MSU and OSU. How?
November 1st, 2020 at 6:26 PM ^
Exactly. I’ve seen people say they’d rather go 1-11 and beat Ohio State than go 11-1 and lose to Ohio State. That mindset makes zero sense to me.
November 1st, 2020 at 6:41 PM ^
I am confident RR never understood coaching at Michigan at what games meant the most, period.
November 1st, 2020 at 6:50 PM ^
Can we stop pretending they didnt want to win all the games they lost?
November 1st, 2020 at 7:08 PM ^
This.
Among the most silly narratives is this idea that the coaches "don't care" or "don't care enough" or in some cases "don't understand the rivalry" as if guys sitting in Row 70, Section 37 seats 11-12 have a far better idea.
For all his faults, Harbaugh played (and won) rivalry games against Sparty and t(tm)OSU. If it's time to move on (or replace the DC) or whatever the move is, fine. But this idea that coaches didn't want to win every single game is nonsense.
November 1st, 2020 at 8:18 PM ^
Jack moved back.... Jim wore those stupid Woody specs, and loses to OSU and doesn't get over it. Then he burns Sleight, hires Brown.... and here we are.
November 1st, 2020 at 2:49 PM ^
You forgot the SIAP part.
Also: https://mgoblog.com/comment/243961581#comment-243961581
November 1st, 2020 at 2:53 PM ^
I'm more concerned about the "what" and "how" than the "who." What do you look for besides wins and losses?
November 1st, 2020 at 3:42 PM ^
I’m concerned with the “why.” If I’m the AD, I sit down with Harbaugh ask him, why isn’t UM winning Big Ten championships and competing for the CFP? Six years and nothing to show. What does Harbaugh say?
November 1st, 2020 at 2:52 PM ^
Just get somebody in their 40s who's hungry.
The rest is just details. We hired Harbaugh a decade too late.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:01 PM ^
Correct Vlady,... Ryan Day (aka Eddie Munster) is 41. Also Josh Gattis is 36. New young innovative blood is needed to right the ship!
November 1st, 2020 at 3:06 PM ^
I like Gattis for the job. I think he checks a lot of boxes.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:16 PM ^
Pass. Get someone who hasn't had the stink of this program washed over them already.
November 1st, 2020 at 4:15 PM ^
Agreed. I'll take Bryan Harsin.
November 1st, 2020 at 8:52 PM ^
I like Gattis for the job as well. I would be willing to try that out.
November 1st, 2020 at 9:46 PM ^
Somebody not directly related to Michigan needs to ask Urban Meyer who he thinks are the best up and coming assistants or coaches. Choose somebody from that list.
November 1st, 2020 at 2:57 PM ^
Luke Fickell
We need a coach with an edge. Fickell is watching Ryan Day take the job that should have been his. He would kill to beat OSU and Michigan State.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:07 PM ^
Not so sure about that. He has deep ties to OSU and Columbus where he was born and raised (and now Cincinnati, son is OLineman on scholarship, 2021 class). His wife is OSU grad too, where they met. But wouldn't hurt to check in with him. Fickell is 47 yrs old.
November 1st, 2020 at 4:09 PM ^
I know people are going to keep bringing up Fickell. Though if Fickell wanted to leave Cincinnati and get on a bigger stage back in the Big 10, then why didn't he take the MSU position?
MSU people thought they had him all sealed and delivered, but he apparently turned them down. We can't try and say it was because MSU is a bad job. I mean, that would just be bias Michigan fan base opinions.
Fickell seems to enjoy coaching Cincinnati and being close to his OSU roots. Though some of our fans want Michigan to offer him ridiculous money, because that's what it would take, to get him to do something he doesn't really want to do.
Fickell absolutely loves OSU and the state of Ohio.
November 1st, 2020 at 4:24 PM ^
MSU was going through all of the Nassar and administrative turmoil. He and his wife ultimately wanted no part of it.
November 1st, 2020 at 5:06 PM ^
With regard to the MSU job, I’m sure he considered things like what was left, the fact that you seldom want to be the guy who succeeds a popular coach (despite everything UM fans thought about Dantonio, he was popular with MSU fans), the fact that despite yesterday’s loss, Michigan will always be #1 in the state, will beat MSU at least 60% of the time, and get most of the best recruits in the state. Given the scandal that was present at the time, I’m sure Fickell felt better jobs would come his way. And, btw, is the MSU job really any better for an OSU grad than the Michigan job.
November 1st, 2020 at 7:26 PM ^
Not to be rude but this is gibberish. Fickell will be the head coach of a power 5 program soon. MSU mid-scandal (when isn’t it) is not the destination school coaches want when they have options. We are not MSU, we are a destination school. How quickly would the recruiting in OH change with Fickell? He would make a huge difference and he has proven he knows how to rebuild a program.
November 1st, 2020 at 7:55 PM ^
And here is the problem - why are we talking about recruiting Ohio like it's some be-all/end-all? Michigan has 8 Rivals 250 recruits and OSU has 9. Just get the best guys no matter where they're from. Dobbins wasn't from Ohio; neither was Haskins. JK Dobbins was from Texas. Ohio water doesn't have any magic in it.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:08 AM ^
The obvious answer is because we have 0 Ohio players 4 stars or higher in the last class 2020. Cincinnati does tho, including the second ranked player in the state who is 47 nationally. We can’t just recruit Ohio but we can keep the in state kids in MI and return to pulling really good talent from OH. Yes, you have to recruit nationally but you can’t ignore a border state with good talent.
November 1st, 2020 at 2:57 PM ^
Every incredible coach (Dabo Swinney, Urban Meyer, Nick Saban, every coach ever) was an up-and-coming assistant or a head coach at a lower-tier school at some point. I feel like the "If not Harbaugh then who???" crowd is ruling out every coach who is not already a massively successful head coach. We need to find somebody who is new, brilliant, and incredible at recruiting.
November 1st, 2020 at 7:55 PM ^
Sounds easy! I'm in. Should have done this years ago.
November 2nd, 2020 at 10:07 PM ^
?. We would have collectively lost our shit if Warde hired a Tressel, let alone someone who had never been a Head Coach like Ryan Day.
November 1st, 2020 at 2:58 PM ^
Historically our coaches (excluding JH) haven’t enjoyed the uniform approval other schools provide.
We had former players negatively recruiting against RR. We had various segments of the athletic department working for “their guy”.
I don’t think this infighting is as prevalent in other programs. Unless we get lucky with an unproven commodity expect to see the same lackluster play (or worse) with our next coach.
I just hope we can put to rest the laughable notion of a Michigan man. Remember the prototypical Michigan man was a product of the OSU coaching tree. Let the new coach win and he’ll become a Michigan man instantly.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:02 PM ^
Today's CFB is about generating offense. Start there: are there proven head coaches with dynamic offenses at P5 schools who might be available? If no, what about lower-tier schools? Of no, start looking at college offensive coordinators running innovative offensives. Gattis could well be the answer if we get to that point, just as Day was for OSU.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^
What's Les Miles doing?
/S
November 1st, 2020 at 3:08 PM ^
Mostly losing, Kansas is terrible, 0-6 this year.
November 1st, 2020 at 4:43 PM ^
Weirdly dying his hair. And possibly getting plastic surgery.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:04 PM ^
Urban Meyer would be the worst best option. But he wouldn’t take the job of course. I’d sell my soul for that though, who knows.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:08 PM ^
It doesn't matter. Until Michigan is willing to do what other perennial winners do to compete it's not gonna matter if they somehow magically get Bill Belichick. There's gonna be a lot of pearl clutching regarding this but it's just a foregone conclusion at this point.
The teams that consistently compete for titles gave up the pretense of focusing on the student portion of student-athlete a long time ago. Yes, that means putting together a vast network of bagmen and essentially making classwork all but optional. I'm not even making a value judgment on this. If you prefer your student-athletes to be focused on their education that's fine, but don't get up in arms when they can't beat an Ohio State squad that's built on the scaffolding of 5 star athletes at every position that can't tell you their class schedule but get pissed if they drop into the second round of the NFL draft. If instead you prefer to build that kind of program, don't then get upset because the student can't spell their last name or solve the most basic algebra problem for X. Firing Harbaugh for another coach, but being unwilling to move away from a greater focus on student education to athlete preparation for the NFL makes no sense whatsoever.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:25 PM ^
We're not even talking about beating OSU at this point. We're talking about consistently beating MSU teams Michigan is more talented than because their teams show up motivated to win, while ours needed Devin Bush to do that because the head coach doesn't or can't stoke the boys up for a fight. This is about not being embarrassed by the Indianas and South Carolinas of the world.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:40 PM ^
I think we’re arguing the same thing in different ways. Michigan is already a second tier team. You change coaches to move up a tier not spin your wheels. If we change coaches we need to do so because we’re prepared to do what it takes to make that next step not because we want to ensure we beat Indiana and MSU, but still get mollywhopped by OSU, PSU, and Wiscy.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:59 PM ^
Mollywhopped? Harbaugh is 2-2 against Wisconsin. 3-2 against Penn State.
November 1st, 2020 at 4:11 PM ^
How do you foresee those games going in this, Harbaugh’s 6th, season?
Do you feel the Michigan program is in a better place than either PSU or Wisconsin?
November 1st, 2020 at 6:22 PM ^
Yeah, both of those felt like losses when the schedule was announced, even more so now.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:25 PM ^
Logged in to upvote.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:10 PM ^
Matt Entz from NDSU?
November 1st, 2020 at 3:13 PM ^
Well the title of the thread had me excited!
November 1st, 2020 at 3:15 PM ^
This is another dumb post. We stick with Harbaugh.
November 1st, 2020 at 3:28 PM ^
Honestly, The depth and youth of the team this year, (esp with the COVID opt outs and Milton taking over at a 1st year starter), this was a rebuild year. Yes, there were tactical issues (CBs in man, defending the run, not passing plan) in this individual game but the bigger picture is this:
- Last year should have been more than 9-4. QB development has been an issue, but M had 10 (!!!) guys drafted. Were S and DL weak? Sure. But 2019 was a talented team with experience and they somehow lost 4 games, 2 of which were not even competitive.
- The attrition, the attrition, the attrition. Half the recruited LBers have departed. Same with the QBs - DM and Peters. Speight even left, tho he was a Hoke recruit as I recall. Why did Dwumfore leave for RU? Soloman went to Tenn FFS. How is St. Juste such a loss? I know he was a medical, but if he wanted to stay and had a shot of playing, I can't imagine the roster spot was so cruicial not to let him play out his time in A2. We've lost about 80% of the opt outs that could have opted back in. What's that old line about the cost of getting a new customer instead of keeping an existing one? That has to be an area of lost effort that just doesn't pay off. All the time and effort on about 12% of the recruited roster playing of other teams in the B10 when they are SRs.
This isn't a DC/OC issue (again leaving aside the in game strategy from yesterday). It's a program wide issue that M simply isn't addressing : the mdoern enviroment of CFB is not in phase with the M program.
November 1st, 2020 at 5:01 PM ^
This is excuse making at the highest level. Who's the reason the depth is shit? Who is the reason the team doesn't adjust to what they have? Its Don Brown but the longer he gets a pass it becomes Harbaugh's.
I'd give Harbaugh 1 more year and bring back Partridge to run the defense. He cant be worse at play calling and he will lap Don Brown in recruiting.
8.5.2November 1st, 2020 at 5:39 PM ^
I think the biggest reason is the kids want playing time. Don Brown plays the same people all game no matter the score.
They are probably thinking they dont get a fair shot at getting on the field. See Ambry Thomas and Mcgrone.
Thomas rarely played in garbage time when he should of been playing over some of the guys.
Mcgrone would of never got extended pt if Ross never got hurt.
November 1st, 2020 at 9:00 PM ^
Player retention is recruiting all over again. No player an injury away from starting should be leaving the program.