What is going on with this "Outside Investigative Firm"?

Submitted by nickelsarcade on October 26th, 2023 at 12:41 PM

The most shocking thing about yesterday's Washington Post article was the casual revelation that an "outside firm" accessed internal UM servers and then reported that material to the NCAA.

I have seen some speculation that this firm was working on behalf of Michigan. That makes absolutely no sense to me: first, a vendor hired by the University would be bound by multiple confidentiality and disclsoure provisions. There could be certain contractual stipulations that, upon subpoena, the vendor would be required to disclose its materials, but again that obligation would have to be legally compelled and to a law enforcement agency (not a organization like the NCAA). And if the vendor was hired by Michigan for an internal audit, Michigan would be the party turning over the materials in exchange for leniency and self-reporting mitigation. 

Assuming that the firm is thus not a UM-affiliated vendor, this becomes a very troubling starting point for the entire bruhaha. Either someone at UM, with requisite access, provided the firm with access in a deliberate attempt to sabotage, or the investigative firm received that access either through false pretense or possible criminal intrusion. Law firms often times use "investigative firms" (some big ones are Nardello, Kroll) to take actions that you don't want to trace back to yourself, or to provide some degree of anonymity. But I am not aware of any reputable firm green-lighting access another institution's email servers without their explicit consent. That steps into federal privacy and computer crimes which very few reputable firms would want to risk violating (and most likely their liability insurance wouldn't even cover). 

Which brings me back to Matt Weiss. Did the community ever reach any sense of what happened there? Could he have been downloading the materials from servers without requisite permission and the investigative firm got it from him?

If I'm Michigan (and clearly the U approaches everything it feels different than I would), I would focus in like a laser on this. It's one thing for us to have scouted live games which 100,000 attendees are also witnessing. It's another for an interested party to retain a firm and traffic in materials that were obtained through either an unlawful breach of contract, corporate espionage, or hacking. And need as much pressure as possible on the press to dig into exactly who this is. 

Wendyk5

October 26th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^

If this turns out to be true, if I ever hear anyone connected with Ohio State say “it’s us against the world” or “Michigan cheated” I’m going to lose my shit in epic fashion. This is incredibly unscrupulous and underhanded, and the Big Ten should sanction their asses. 

goblu330

October 26th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^

Honestly, I think the NCAA is probably in the process of sorting this out just like we are.  At first, I did think that this was the evil NCAA doing an elongated evil laugh, but I think right now they are probably still in the "what...say that again now" stages as well.

I am really interested in this meeting that is taking place today between Michigan and the NCAA.  Given that all of this raises all kinds of ethical and legal questions in all kinds of directions, I actually get the feeling that the NCAA would prefer that this was one psycho with a manifesto and nothing else.

That organization cannot effectively handle this and I think they know it.  I don't think it is likely, but I actually think it is possible that this ends with "Connor Stalions fired - nothing else to see here."

Yeoman

October 26th, 2023 at 2:35 PM ^

Collective nouns are a problem here. I think it's useful to separate at least three entities: "Jim Stapleton," "the rest of the committee on infractions," and "the rest of the NCAA."

Otherwise we get into evident absurdities like the NCAA anonymously commenting on a case before the NCAA has even been informed of it.

goblu330

October 26th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^

The only thing that I think is misguided is Brian's reliance on comparisons to other "scandals" to definitely declare that nothing big will come of this.  There is a difference between recruiting scandals and what is alleged here and an apples to apples comparison is not effective in that regard.  I think him saying that "nothing big will come of this" is better understood as "I really really don't want anything big to come of this."

goblu330

October 26th, 2023 at 1:40 PM ^

I don't think it is "that serious" like I am appalled at the conduct.  I just think it is different.  I am far more worried about possibly vacated wins and titles.  That is where my biggest concern is.  Recruiting violations are commonly punished with the logical punishment, scholarship reductions.  I am not super offended by what is alleged against Michigan, but the logical punishment if they find evidence of systemic wrongdoing by the staff would be vacating the games where they are found to have engaged in this.  

I mean, yeah, Michigan still won them, but that would suck.

93Grad

October 26th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^

Agreed.  Brian is being way to pollyanish about this.  I am with Craig Ross in that I have zero faith that the NCAA will back down or treat Michigan like every other institution.  I also have zero faith that Warde will proactively fight the NCAA in order to prevent serious sanctions.  I hope Brian is right, but I am not at all convinced that this is a "nothing burger."

Wendyk5

October 26th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^

We’re skipping over the most egregious part: Ryan Day hiring a private investigator. I don’t care whether Stalions was careless, whether the entire world had access to files, etc, etc. The rivalry is played out on the field, not in some back room with boosters paying for rival schools to be investigated. If that’s the case, I don’t think these guys deserve to play us. 

unWavering

October 26th, 2023 at 12:48 PM ^

My question is, if an outside firm accessed Michigan's servers, do we know exactly what information they took and disseminated to other parties?

How do we know other teams don't currently have our playbook, practice notes/video, etc?

SalvatoreQuattro

October 26th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^

It appears that this firm induced a person within the operation to share information that belongs to the group. Without collective authorization for dissemination of info that appears to be a breach in ethics if not the law.

brad

October 26th, 2023 at 12:57 PM ^

The bizarre thing about this whole affair is the focus of coverage, even here.

In one hand, the universe has given us a true story of intrigue, double crossing, snout in the mud tomfoolery by one rival aimed directly at its other.

In the other hand, we have the sign stealing allegation.

Why is anyone in America talking about "sign stealing", which is literally the same as "attending a game", when we have plenty of evidence and, I would assume, plenty of people ready to talk about a true scandal?  Is it really just that Ohio State is this much better than we are at shaping the narrative?  Oh, it probably is that actually.

CompleteLunacy

October 26th, 2023 at 1:14 PM ^

I get what you're saying, but it's pretty simple.

They had a head start. All this material was ready to go, and it's clear they planned this drip drip drip of daily "bombshells" that aren't actually bombshells when you examine with any level of detail...which in the PR world it does not matter.

Michigan is scrambling to figure out how to respond. Make no mistake, they will. But I'd rather they take a moment to recover and strategize before going on the offensive. Surely they can't say or do anything until they actually talk with NCAA today over it.

But if it's even remotely true that this firm was hired by an entity outside of Michigan, then Michigan has some very real very major concerns to address today with the NCAA, regardless of their level of guilt on sign stealing. This is a can of worms thing, what's to stop all schools from hiring investigative firms to get dirt on each other? They talk about "spirit of the rules" bs, well that seems way worse than a guy who bought some tickets for people to attend games and record iphone footage. 

thelomasbrowns

October 26th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^

I'm not an attorney, but I work in tech.  I can't imagine that the legal system sees files in UofM's instance of Google/Dropbox/Box/etc. as any different from files on an on-campus server. 

However it went down, this part of the story seems super shady.

los barcos

October 26th, 2023 at 1:07 PM ^

Occam's razor- this was an NCAA hired firm that M allowed in during the Cheesburger gate. It would make sense for them to look at Stallion's computer, given he was ostensibly in recruiting. Timing would fit, as well as the reporting dynamic (straight to the NCAA). 

CompleteLunacy

October 26th, 2023 at 1:17 PM ^

If this is the truth then so be it.

But you'd have thought we would know that by now. Why is this story so incomplete and each day new info coming out? If it was the NCAA why the hell do they get to just leak everything to the press while Michigan - per NCAA rules - must not comment on an ongoing investigation?

 

los barcos

October 26th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^

I mean, the investigation started in...August? All computers searched, reports reviewed and submitted - it's not unreasonable this would have been a two month process. Good and bad news - if this is the case, then likely we've heard the worst of it because, i would imagine, any bigger breaking news would have been released.