What is going on with this "Outside Investigative Firm"?
The most shocking thing about yesterday's Washington Post article was the casual revelation that an "outside firm" accessed internal UM servers and then reported that material to the NCAA.
I have seen some speculation that this firm was working on behalf of Michigan. That makes absolutely no sense to me: first, a vendor hired by the University would be bound by multiple confidentiality and disclsoure provisions. There could be certain contractual stipulations that, upon subpoena, the vendor would be required to disclose its materials, but again that obligation would have to be legally compelled and to a law enforcement agency (not a organization like the NCAA). And if the vendor was hired by Michigan for an internal audit, Michigan would be the party turning over the materials in exchange for leniency and self-reporting mitigation.
Assuming that the firm is thus not a UM-affiliated vendor, this becomes a very troubling starting point for the entire bruhaha. Either someone at UM, with requisite access, provided the firm with access in a deliberate attempt to sabotage, or the investigative firm received that access either through false pretense or possible criminal intrusion. Law firms often times use "investigative firms" (some big ones are Nardello, Kroll) to take actions that you don't want to trace back to yourself, or to provide some degree of anonymity. But I am not aware of any reputable firm green-lighting access another institution's email servers without their explicit consent. That steps into federal privacy and computer crimes which very few reputable firms would want to risk violating (and most likely their liability insurance wouldn't even cover).
Which brings me back to Matt Weiss. Did the community ever reach any sense of what happened there? Could he have been downloading the materials from servers without requisite permission and the investigative firm got it from him?
If I'm Michigan (and clearly the U approaches everything it feels different than I would), I would focus in like a laser on this. It's one thing for us to have scouted live games which 100,000 attendees are also witnessing. It's another for an interested party to retain a firm and traffic in materials that were obtained through either an unlawful breach of contract, corporate espionage, or hacking. And need as much pressure as possible on the press to dig into exactly who this is.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
Lots of money (at least relatively speaking)? If you're willing to film a college football game on your iPhone for someone (the arm fatigue alone would make this highly unattractive), you might jump at as little as $1000.
October 26th, 2023 at 2:24 PM ^
The only known person with arm fatigue is Mel Tucker. How is he related to this situation?
October 26th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
Money
October 26th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^
If this turns out to be true, if I ever hear anyone connected with Ohio State say “it’s us against the world” or “Michigan cheated” I’m going to lose my shit in epic fashion. This is incredibly unscrupulous and underhanded, and the Big Ten should sanction their asses.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^
Honestly, I think the NCAA is probably in the process of sorting this out just like we are. At first, I did think that this was the evil NCAA doing an elongated evil laugh, but I think right now they are probably still in the "what...say that again now" stages as well.
I am really interested in this meeting that is taking place today between Michigan and the NCAA. Given that all of this raises all kinds of ethical and legal questions in all kinds of directions, I actually get the feeling that the NCAA would prefer that this was one psycho with a manifesto and nothing else.
That organization cannot effectively handle this and I think they know it. I don't think it is likely, but I actually think it is possible that this ends with "Connor Stalions fired - nothing else to see here."
October 26th, 2023 at 2:35 PM ^
Collective nouns are a problem here. I think it's useful to separate at least three entities: "Jim Stapleton," "the rest of the committee on infractions," and "the rest of the NCAA."
Otherwise we get into evident absurdities like the NCAA anonymously commenting on a case before the NCAA has even been informed of it.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:23 PM ^
Are you asking if 3rd base is occupied on the prison ball field?
October 26th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
Honestly, if the NCAA and/or B1G doesn't sanction OSU in that situation, it would open up a huge can of works. It would turn the NCAA "gentlemen's agreement" on cheating into a full blown war of teams investigating each other
October 26th, 2023 at 1:31 PM ^
Shout out to the WTKA round table for being the most level headed and logical people discussing the topic. IMO, everywhere else, this is being sensationalized with zero facts presented. It seems like common sense and patience is void on other sites. Thanks for keeping it real.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
The only thing that I think is misguided is Brian's reliance on comparisons to other "scandals" to definitely declare that nothing big will come of this. There is a difference between recruiting scandals and what is alleged here and an apples to apples comparison is not effective in that regard. I think him saying that "nothing big will come of this" is better understood as "I really really don't want anything big to come of this."
October 26th, 2023 at 1:37 PM ^
What is alleged here isn’t the big deal that you apparently think it is.
The competitive advantage is in the theft of signals. That is permissible. What is impermissible is a method used to achieve competitive advantage. That’s an nonsensical bylaw.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:40 PM ^
I don't think it is "that serious" like I am appalled at the conduct. I just think it is different. I am far more worried about possibly vacated wins and titles. That is where my biggest concern is. Recruiting violations are commonly punished with the logical punishment, scholarship reductions. I am not super offended by what is alleged against Michigan, but the logical punishment if they find evidence of systemic wrongdoing by the staff would be vacating the games where they are found to have engaged in this.
I mean, yeah, Michigan still won them, but that would suck.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:47 PM ^
Vacated wins and titles are the stupidest punishment in all of sports, by a really wide margin. If that's what you're worried about, just stop worrying about it.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:51 PM ^
It may be stupid, but it does suck. Michigan not being able to claim two BIG championships would suck. Any action taken with regard to this season would suck.
It is not keeping me up at night, but I certainly don't want it to happen.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:54 PM ^
I understand the concern, but the NCAA has been moving away from collective punishment. I don’t see them punishing the players and staff for the actions of a low level staffer.
A large fine and perhaps a Harbaugh suspension may be what is coming down the pike.
October 26th, 2023 at 2:03 PM ^
Well, MSU was informed ahead of time this year. And OSU claims that they changed their signals before the game last year. So do you vacate games where there was no benefit gained? Vacating wins is stupid, especially for something that every coach and team does.
October 26th, 2023 at 2:11 PM ^
Pretty much agree. I say we all make a pact that if wins are vacated, we never mention it here. Those of us who only read mgoblog basically wouldn't even know.
October 26th, 2023 at 2:25 PM ^
And also, Stalions didn't clearly breach the bylaws.
October 26th, 2023 at 2:39 PM ^
Agreed. Brian is being way to pollyanish about this. I am with Craig Ross in that I have zero faith that the NCAA will back down or treat Michigan like every other institution. I also have zero faith that Warde will proactively fight the NCAA in order to prevent serious sanctions. I hope Brian is right, but I am not at all convinced that this is a "nothing burger."
October 26th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
We’re skipping over the most egregious part: Ryan Day hiring a private investigator. I don’t care whether Stalions was careless, whether the entire world had access to files, etc, etc. The rivalry is played out on the field, not in some back room with boosters paying for rival schools to be investigated. If that’s the case, I don’t think these guys deserve to play us.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^
It’s just endless finger pointing. Osu says Michigan cheated because they couldn’t beat Osu. Michigan says Osu had to try to sabotage the program because they couldn’t beat Michigan. Michigan State is sitting in the corner eating glue and throwing millions of dollars into a furnace
October 26th, 2023 at 1:57 PM ^
Where has that ever been substantiated beyond OSU fans clinging to the idea this is the W and L erasing effort needed to justify the rivalry shift?
October 26th, 2023 at 2:40 PM ^
I agree that it is super fucking petty and weak for OSU to have done this, but that is who Ryan Day is. My only hope is that we pound them again and they will have no excuse this time.
October 26th, 2023 at 2:18 PM ^
I'm not sure "flipped" is the right word. Sopwith's description of at least some instances was of students at B1G schools recording the opposition sideline. One of Stalions's volunteers could well be an OSU student.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:48 PM ^
My question is, if an outside firm accessed Michigan's servers, do we know exactly what information they took and disseminated to other parties?
How do we know other teams don't currently have our playbook, practice notes/video, etc?
October 26th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^
They do. That's why we're only winning by seven touchdowns.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:58 PM ^
The OP grossly mischaracterized the matter
”the firm said it had obtained from computer drives maintained and accessed by multiple Michigan coaches”
drives aren’t servers. The firm got a Chromebook basically
October 26th, 2023 at 2:14 PM ^
What's the difference between a "shared drive" and a server? And do we expect most people to know the difference? I don't. And it seems more like that multiple Michigan coaches are using the same shared drive instead of passing around a Chromebook.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Their investigation has found that Connor Stalions is really Kaiser Soze.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:02 PM ^
I’ll feel better about this situation if Warde has a Mr. Kobayashi on retainer.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:13 PM ^
Stalions walking away from Schembechler Hall
October 26th, 2023 at 12:52 PM ^
quemar los barcos
October 26th, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
It appears that this firm induced a person within the operation to share information that belongs to the group. Without collective authorization for dissemination of info that appears to be a breach in ethics if not the law.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
Ethics drank all the booze and left the party a long time ago. Don't forget to turn off the lights.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:57 PM ^
The bizarre thing about this whole affair is the focus of coverage, even here.
In one hand, the universe has given us a true story of intrigue, double crossing, snout in the mud tomfoolery by one rival aimed directly at its other.
In the other hand, we have the sign stealing allegation.
Why is anyone in America talking about "sign stealing", which is literally the same as "attending a game", when we have plenty of evidence and, I would assume, plenty of people ready to talk about a true scandal? Is it really just that Ohio State is this much better than we are at shaping the narrative? Oh, it probably is that actually.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
The Buckeyes are good at lying… Michigan isn’t…
October 26th, 2023 at 1:14 PM ^
I get what you're saying, but it's pretty simple.
They had a head start. All this material was ready to go, and it's clear they planned this drip drip drip of daily "bombshells" that aren't actually bombshells when you examine with any level of detail...which in the PR world it does not matter.
Michigan is scrambling to figure out how to respond. Make no mistake, they will. But I'd rather they take a moment to recover and strategize before going on the offensive. Surely they can't say or do anything until they actually talk with NCAA today over it.
But if it's even remotely true that this firm was hired by an entity outside of Michigan, then Michigan has some very real very major concerns to address today with the NCAA, regardless of their level of guilt on sign stealing. This is a can of worms thing, what's to stop all schools from hiring investigative firms to get dirt on each other? They talk about "spirit of the rules" bs, well that seems way worse than a guy who bought some tickets for people to attend games and record iphone footage.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:58 PM ^
- Lots of people don’t like Michigan and/or Harbaugh and enthusiastically drank this up
- OSU is doing a good job of winning the PR battle
October 26th, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
I'm not an attorney, but I work in tech. I can't imagine that the legal system sees files in UofM's instance of Google/Dropbox/Box/etc. as any different from files on an on-campus server.
However it went down, this part of the story seems super shady.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:04 PM ^
See Rug Dog's post. What if CS stored the files outside UM's environment? That might have made sense if his minions weren't UM employees.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:13 PM ^
But didn't yesterday's news say that UM coaches had access to this as well? That would suggest that it is in UM's environment, wouldn't it?
October 26th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
It would, yes. (I haven't kept up with all the details.) One would hope that at least one UM coach would recognize the risk of having the files stored "outside."
October 26th, 2023 at 1:59 PM ^
It’s hard drives, not servers. CS may have sent a department Chromebook used by … the department. Doesn’t mean anyone touched it or opened every file. Hence Washington Post saying “had access to,” not “opened and viewed hundreds of times by individual staff members”
October 26th, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^
WaPo didn't say "had access to" they said "maintained and accessed"
October 26th, 2023 at 4:23 PM ^
Bingo. Mantained suggests it’s online servers, likely on an internal hosting platform.
October 26th, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^
As said, there are multiple threads going on here. As a Michigan fan, I'd hope the university does a thorough investigation as to what the hell happened.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:07 PM ^
Occam's razor- this was an NCAA hired firm that M allowed in during the Cheesburger gate. It would make sense for them to look at Stallion's computer, given he was ostensibly in recruiting. Timing would fit, as well as the reporting dynamic (straight to the NCAA).
October 26th, 2023 at 1:17 PM ^
If this is the truth then so be it.
But you'd have thought we would know that by now. Why is this story so incomplete and each day new info coming out? If it was the NCAA why the hell do they get to just leak everything to the press while Michigan - per NCAA rules - must not comment on an ongoing investigation?
October 26th, 2023 at 1:34 PM ^
I mean, the investigation started in...August? All computers searched, reports reviewed and submitted - it's not unreasonable this would have been a two month process. Good and bad news - if this is the case, then likely we've heard the worst of it because, i would imagine, any bigger breaking news would have been released.
October 26th, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^
Except I thought it was the Big Ten who notified the NCAA in the first place, not the other way around?