SI confirms “Rivals” shared UM signals
Sports Illustrated just posted via Instagram “Two single-page documents listing detailed breakdowns of Michigan's deciphered signals were shared last season with a Big Ten school set to face the Wolverines, Si's @bypatforde and @ri_cfb report.”
I’m guessing the NCAA and B10 may decide to back off since this is just the tip of the iceberg as to the information UM has on everyone. I almost hope they press their luck so we can go scorched earth on them all. Defamation suits all around!
November 7th, 2023 at 8:36 AM ^
Will The Athletic please call 50 coaches (from other conferences) asking if this is normal behavior?
And if it is, can they explain how it's materially different from what CS was doing?
November 7th, 2023 at 8:51 AM ^
It isn’t materially different. Teams are using other teams to be their off-campus, in-person scouts of future opponents (without the benefit of providing any ticket revenue).
November 7th, 2023 at 8:38 AM ^
I doubt this has ANY effect on what the B1G or NCAA will do. The torches and pitchforks are already out. Facts, due process and fairness be damned.
The only thing that may stop them at this point is a lawsuit.
November 7th, 2023 at 8:58 AM ^
Narrative is key here. If the pitchfork mob loses their access to RIGHTEOUS PIETY and instead this devolves into hair splitting about methods, the blood lust that has built up simply can't be sustained. Maybe B1G is already off the rails, but Michigan is very clearly signaling that if it goes for anything substantial, Michigan will dump a metric fuckton of gamesmanship type rule violations into the public space. Many in the media would be happy to ignore this but there are enough big names who would cry foul at this to cause some very real consternation. Avoiding all that by levying a large fine and time served penalty on Michigan looks increasingly appealing.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:03 AM ^
I'm with you except for the large fine part. At this point, they need to be negotiating with us to make this go away.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:37 AM ^
I think if we take a fine and the schools who have now had info dumped on them (hopefully OSU among them, i really need OSU to take some return fire here) get a fine as well, maybe even a lesser one, I'd be supremely happy and this would go away. I really want to see all the dirt that we have on these guys but I also don't want this to totally destroy the spirit of the conference, which i feel it kinda might if everyone just goes nuclear and info dumps as they get clobbered. At that point, it goes from UM being the cheater to the B1G being a conference of risible scum that can't win in the post season even though they're all cheaters. SEC SEC SEC. My id wants to be the scorpion on the frog's back, but my rational side just wants us to get to the other side of this relatively unscathed.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:33 AM ^
I think the lawsuit component is the key. Michigan could make a strong argument that this is not an unsportsmanlike violation, because other programs in the Big Ten engage in sign stealing and, apparently, advanced scouting by proxy. You can also argue against the lack on institutional control ruling that could theoretically come from the NCAA because, again, every institution in the Big Ten engages in an activity that provides effectively equivalent information as what Michigan obtained.
November 7th, 2023 at 8:39 AM ^
The mob is just upset because either Michigan changed the signs or they didn’t and they still couldn’t beat them
November 7th, 2023 at 8:43 AM ^
Hahahaha keep dumping the dirt. Fuck em. Idiots for even trying this shit. It’s on boys. And oh yea: we’re the better team and it’s not even close.
November 7th, 2023 at 8:44 AM ^
If anybody here knows, which NCAA bylaws were violated?
November 7th, 2023 at 8:48 AM ^
11.6.1 in person scouting.
November 7th, 2023 at 9:43 AM ^
So there's evidence that these coaches went off-campus to games they weren't playing in to gather information about Michigan's team?
11.6.1 Off-Campus, In-Person Scouting Prohibition. Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited, except as provided in Bylaws 11.6.1.1 and 11.6.1.2. (Adopted: 1/11/94 effective 8/1/94, Revised: 1/14/97 effective 8/1/97, 1/19/13 effective 8/1/13, 1/15/14)
November 7th, 2023 at 9:58 AM ^
They get away with it because of this: Off-campus, in-person scouting of future opponents (in the same season) is prohibited.
The coaches that did the scouting and code breaking were not scouting future opponents, they were scouting and code breaking their current opponent. Then they shared that with another school who's future opponent was that same current opponent.
It's hair splitting.
The same level of hair splitting that CS could legitimately do by saying he was not the one attending games in-person.
If hair splitting arguments are allowed to work then they should work for everybody.
November 7th, 2023 at 11:13 AM ^
Depending on the veracity and context of this story (it's behind a paywall), you may be right that this violates the spirit of the rule, at least to some degree, and calls for an appropriate and proportional response. I suppose it depends on how that information was gathered and the motivation of the participants.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:28 PM ^
Wait, you wonder what the motivation of Michigan's opponents sharing its signs would be? That one seems pretty self-evident. Either there is a benefit in having another team's signs, or there isn't. If Michigan had an advantage, then so did their opponents, so it nets out to zero. If there is no advantage, then what are we even talking about
And if CS can be nailed to the wall for using random students as his proxies, how is it actually better if your proxies are actually staff members of other teams?
November 7th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
If you want to say that rando freelance videographers recruited by Stalions are acting as advance in person scouts for Michigan, then if an analyst for e.g. Illinois shares sign information with OSU after Illinois has played Michigan, that Illinois staffer is obviously acting as an advance in person scout for OSU. QED.
But this is just splitting hairs. Teams *colluding* with one another against another team is a far more egregious breach of sportsmanship than obtaining video of a public event from random people.
November 7th, 2023 at 9:25 AM ^
If you have an agreement for other teams to in person scout for you.
B10 fairplay clause, can't collude against another B10 team.
November 7th, 2023 at 9:02 AM ^
3 of the first 5 “Top Headlines” on ESPN’s college football page are negative stories about Michigan. Still nothing about the counter-offensive AP story. Seriously, fuck espn and their pro-SEC, anti-Michigan agenda.
November 7th, 2023 at 9:56 AM ^
ESPN objectively has terrible, vanilla writers and has never been worth reading. I know many around these parts hate The Athletic, too, but their reporting is generally better (I base this on baseball coverage). I will never defend any outlet that sensationalizes a story for clicks, and pretty much all media has done that with this story.
November 7th, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^
Love that M is fighting back, but highly annoying that after weeks of the media talking about Michigan “stealing” signs, when this news comes out about others doing it, it is framed as “decoding” signs.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:00 AM ^
Was there ever any doubt that this would happen once it got out that everybody does this?
November 7th, 2023 at 9:32 AM ^
Scorched earth!!!
November 7th, 2023 at 9:38 AM ^
Dammit SI, don't make me install Instagram.
November 7th, 2023 at 9:47 AM ^
Their argument that Michigan had a "vast network" of signal stealers was their Freudian slip.. Guess they had a vast network that is by far bigger.. The irony...
November 7th, 2023 at 10:01 AM ^
The teams that colluded against us had a vast competent network.
November 7th, 2023 at 1:31 PM ^
Yes, the term "collusion" needs to make its way into the conversation. Because that is prohibited in every league at every level, and that is what is going on here.
November 7th, 2023 at 9:48 AM ^
If I’m the commissioner, and maybe got caught up in the mob mentality from the other schools but am now regretting it, I’m firing off an email to each school’s AD requesting they all back off, otherwise a notice will be served to them in generally the same terms as the one sent to UM. In other words, if they continue to insist Harbaugh gets suspended indefinitely, then expect them all to get suspended indefinitely.
The B1G conference head needs to have that air of impartiality, otherwise they will lose the confidence of every member school (except for those “ringleaders” basically calling the shots). Pettiti can still salvage this, the only question is will he? If he doesn’t then, IMO, UM would be doing a disservice to its student athletes if they didn’t start exploring alternatives to staying in the B1G.
November 7th, 2023 at 9:53 AM ^
I agree with you, you could tell from the Title of the article when it said "Decoded" instead of stole lmao... Anyways this only helped them prevent us from hanging another three touchdowns on their heads. If it's obviously common and known what is the big fuss then? ( conner went out of his way to go do it on his own instead of another coach sharing the info with him? what's the big deal? They on some bullshit and just trying to push their narrative. That's it. Buckle up, its going to be fun.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
Big 10 looks like a joke right now! At least the SEC just realizes/assumes their signs are stolen and adjust accordingly.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:16 AM ^
This is what pisses people off about the Big Ten. They do the same kind of gamesmanship cheating that the SEC does, but they are sneaky and self-righteous about it.
The SEC is like "If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin." They are at least forthright and self-aware.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
What's pissing me off is that these teams in the Big Ten are doing it with no postseason success to show for it.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:58 AM ^
I've never heard yet of a SEC player informing the general public that they aren't there to play school. It's probably out there but it's not an SEC player that comes straight to mind.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
This just makes it all the more egregious that Michigan and every other program has not gone to wristbands permanently or instituted more complex coding schemes.
Everyone's ops are starting to look extremely amateur hour for such a professional venture as college football.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
I think it's interesting that nothing new has dropped this morning.
November 7th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
if there is something new it'll probably follow the pattern of dropping in the afternoon
November 7th, 2023 at 11:46 AM ^
They had some nice plays but we held them to a field goal...now, we got the ball
November 7th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
The AP already reported it, but I guess it's nice that SI trying to come back from crazy town?
November 7th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
The best thing about this article is that stories beget stories. Look for more of these borderline "sign stealing" stories to pop up and not in just the Big Ten, but all across the entire nation. And I guarantee that at least one other story of in-person sign scouting is sure to emerge.
This is as common as speeding on the highway.
November 7th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
In the words of Tupac Shakur
"You think you the mob, we the mafuckin' mob"
November 7th, 2023 at 1:03 PM ^
Update on 11Warriors (5 hours later)----STILL no thread acknowledging this news....