Rumors: Florida St trying to join the Big Ten within the month
I looked everywhere and didn't see this posted yet. Lots of rumors that Florida St is looking to join the Big 10 within the next month. Appears to be just rumors at this point... but often when there's smoke, there's fire. I guess they are (rightfully) angry about being left out of the CFP and perhaps they feel being in the ACC was part of the reason?
December 11th, 2023 at 10:39 AM ^
The level of frustration they have is understandable, but how would a move to the Big benefit them considering the playoff format expands next season and frankly the competition in the Big will be far more severe than in the ACC? To me it seems like a decision made purely on emotion and speaking as someone that frequently makes decisions on emotion, they don't usually work out the way you FELT they would.
December 11th, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
FSU has been trying to get out of the ACC for some time now. They would have left already if they could find a way to leave where their rights agreement wouldn't cost them a fortune. If they do find a way around that, they're gone as soon as the Big Ten or SEC agree to take them in.
I don't think it has anything to do with the playoff snub. It's their recognition that they are competing against teams with much bigger budgets due to lucrative SEC and Big Ten TV contracts. That's going to mean a lot more when players start sharing in revenue.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:24 AM ^
"It's their recognition that they are competing against teams with much bigger budgets due to lucrative SEC and Big Ten TV contracts."
Exactly. This is the observation that Alford, the FSU AD, makes continually. It's an arms race, and FSU cannot afford to get left behind. And my wife (FSU tenured faculty) and some of her colleagues have been nursing the hope that entry to the B1G might help FSU weather some of the fierce political storms, even be a countervailing force, in recent times. Interesting, though, because the entry of Stanford and Cal has made the ACC look more appealing to some of us. . .
The real problem is that 2036, when the ACC football contract expires, is an incredibly long way off. FSU could be languishing far behind B1G and SEC squads by then. I have argued here that what FSU needs to do is organize fellow ACC schools to demand re-negotiation of that TV contract--threaten to bolt en masse if new terms weren't offered. But I'm not sure they haven't alienated fellow members. (That's conjecture, but based on assertions commonly made.)
Pertinent side note: If FSU comes, they probably need a partner. Which school looms as the most prominent possibility?
EDIT: FWIW, this article, while somewhat click-baity in character, asserts that there is interest on both sides (from the B1G and FSU):
December 11th, 2023 at 11:35 AM ^
FSU >> B1G would instigate another conference run similar to the Pac 12. I think the B1G winds up taking four teams:
FSU
UVA
Miami
GaTech
December 11th, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^
I'd take a North Carolina school, if possible, before Miami.
December 11th, 2023 at 1:42 PM ^
I am good with duke as well. the northwestern of the southeast.
if the biggity conference wants 4 add GT and UVA. To hell with ND (unless they see the light and beg).
December 11th, 2023 at 1:41 PM ^
UVA fits like Cal fits. They don't bring the $$$ though so, like Cal, they're not joining.
December 11th, 2023 at 3:21 PM ^
I've been saying FSU & UVA for some time now.
I don't really know what Ga. Tech would bring to the equation eyeballs wise but I suppose getting into the GA recruiting market is enticing. And yeah if FSU joins the B1G, Miami should come too. If the B1G were to go this route I'd seriously re-think not swooping up Stanford & Cal. The Bay Area is and will always be a giant media market. 6 west coast teams makes more sense. Not every new mega conf. needs to have all teams be a football juggernaut. The B1G would have nearly the entire East & West coasts (where the people live) covered and most places (north, where the people live) in between.
December 11th, 2023 at 6:53 PM ^
I think Clemson would be an attractive school for B1G. They're already an AAU research school and have several respectable programs. As for Football, Clemson has won several national championships.
December 11th, 2023 at 7:55 PM ^
this is one team I would like to see go to the SEC. No appeal whatsoever.
...well there is Woody's "one shining moment."
December 11th, 2023 at 11:36 AM ^
Geographically the B1G is already out of whack. To expand south is another frontier that if FSU were to be included then Miami can be brought in. UNC is another intriguing school. UVA or Pitt would add more to the natural rivalries in basketball and football.
December 11th, 2023 at 12:02 PM ^
Miami is the obvious school to join FSU. They have less allegiance to the ACC and won't be attached to any other schools. Ideally, the Big Ten wants Notre Dame #1 and UNC #2, but ND doesn't have the same motivation to leave and I think UNC will be reluctant to leave behind their traditional rivals. I hope the Big Ten wouldn't add more than two more schools and I kind of doubt that they will. If the Big Ten takes schools from the ACC, the SEC will too. I've heard UNC would be their top target.
December 11th, 2023 at 3:31 PM ^
How long are the B1G 12 and the ACC going to be around as more than prestigious MAC level conferences? We're very quickly going to be, or are already in a race to get all of the "good" schools before the SEC does. Regional conferences made more sense, but it is what it is. We're going to have to take some schools that are good but not great at football like GaTech, Pitt, NC, etc. so that it isn't a total gauntlet of superpowers.
December 11th, 2023 at 12:11 PM ^
The cynics among us will chalk this up to "money" or "TV contracts" or an "arms race."
The truth of the matter is it can all be traced back to the satellite football camps Harbaugh dropped in the heart of SEC / ACC country back in the 2015 time period. Such bravado and chutzpah! FSU has wanted to be like JH ever since that time, especially after Harbaugh complimented their horse in the lead-up to the 2016 Orange Bowl (a game everyone recognizes we let them win.) The seeds planted back then are now bearing fruit.
December 11th, 2023 at 12:13 PM ^
Miami (ytm)
December 11th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
what FSU needs to do is organize fellow ACC schools to demand re-negotiation of that TV contract--threaten to bolt en masse if new terms weren't offered.
I think the biggest issue with the ACC, particularly for football, is that their geographic spread overlaps with both the SEC and the Big Ten. Where they do not have that level of overlap (western NY, New England, Virginia, North Carolina) is limited and not the biggest fanbases for college football.
Otherwise, you have broadcast dollars competing in Florida (UF vs Miami and FSU), Georgia (UGA vs GT), South Carolina (SCar vs. Clemson), Pennsylvania (Pitt vs. Penn State), and Kentucky (Louisville vs UK), and the SEC/B1G win most of the time.
The ACC is relatively weak when it comes to football and it shows in the TV contracts. I don't see how they could possibly get as much as the Big Ten and SEC which are more varied geographically and have strength in both football and basketball.
December 11th, 2023 at 12:59 PM ^
MGlobules, since you're a FL resident, I have a question:
• FSU is a state-supported university—does it have the legal/administrative freedom to change conferences without having to get approval from any other body, or does the Florida legislature have a say in the matter?
• If the legislature does have a say, I'm skeptical that there wouldn't be significant opposition by the party that controls the lege to such a move, especially since Tallahassee is also the state capital. If the BIG website is accurate and up to date, the conference is formally committed to diversity initiatives, and I would bet that would raise the hackles of the controlling party as well as the governor's office. Both entities have demonstrated a willingness to get involved in the running of the state's higher education institutions.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:15 PM ^
As you say, the governor and legislature have shown themselves willing to intervene at all levels of Florida education. A NY Times article last week explored the slow leak of talented faculty and prospective new hires away from the state and state university system. After seeing UF move as high as number five on the US News list of public u's and FSU to 18--the latter from the low sixties when we arrived twenty years ago, an extraordinary achievement--disaster now stalks schools in Florida; indeed, there are reports yesterday of cratering SAT scores. Part of the irony here is that Jeb Bush helped stimulate a lot of that growth with the dedication of massive new spending on the state schools and system in an effort to bring FL in line with NY and CA in the ability to create an educated work force for a state that was then lagging badly. Businesses need educated employees.
But--having said that--I have never heard a whisper about antagonism by state officials to a move to the Big Ten. And I do perceive entry into the AAU and Big Ten as long-term forces that should slow threats to diversity and a spirit of open inquiry/debate in the system. Of course, we can't say that's working out terribly well for UF (where I got my doctorate) or The New School at the moment. What we're seeing is unprecedented and scary.
I think that if FSU comes it will need to be hand in hand with one to three other of the higher-ranked southern u's. And I do think there's some implicit pressure to do this before the SEC gobbles up lots more programs and looms as the bigger football presence. It's a little bit of an arms race between the SEC and B1G.
A lot of the challenges on drawing boards in both conferences are now logistical: Yes, you can bring x, y, and z school into the fold, but how do you get people paid, organize all these sports encounters. The ramifications for other sports can't go completely by the wayside, either; these are giant operations. Was looking at a photo of FSU's newly crowned US champion women's soccer team on a private jet the other day and thinking that a great deal of expensive travel is being generated. This will all shake out over decades; there will be winners and many losers.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:42 AM ^
"I don't think it has anything to do with the playoff snub."
I'm not disagreeing with you personally, but the Tallahassee press seems to believe it has much to do with the playoff snub:
December 11th, 2023 at 12:17 PM ^
I was surprised that the ACC didn't come out one hell of a lot stronger and angrier both before the final rankings and after. Maybe that had to do with the league just not liking FSU due to their previous openness about leaving.
December 11th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
It's because in 5 years, this version of the playoff will be scraped in favor of the new super league structure created by the Big10 and SEC, and they don't want to be left out.
This isn't a knee jerk reaction to this season, this is a move to protect their brand over the coming decades.
By then, being #4 or #5 in the big ten will be better than being #1 in the remnants of the ACC.
Just ask Oregon State
December 11th, 2023 at 12:51 PM ^
Frankly that is what should happen. The NCAA has proven time and again they are a useless body that causes more trouble than its solves. The Big Ten/SEC should create a new college football alliance to replace the NCAA/ FBS. Take a total of 40 or so schools and start from scratch with new rules, scheduling, playoffs, etc. Will be a million times better than whatever shit exists now
December 11th, 2023 at 2:20 PM ^
Make a NFL type schedule. 2 conferences B1G. And SEC. 4 five team divisions in each conference. Play schedule like the NFL . Have a playoffs then a Championship
December 11th, 2023 at 11:17 PM ^
Yes, the NCAA has been C by its A in this little bit of fuckery of FSU; no one even pauses to wonder where they are. I hope that after we whack Alabama (fingers crossed) someone like Jim will come out and say that FSU really better deserved to be in that game to begin with.
December 11th, 2023 at 1:56 PM ^
There won't ever be a super league...inevitably these teams will start compiling losses and won't be good anymore. The bottom half teams would probably stay there forever. And it's not as though there is a draft, recruiting means, the rich will get richer. a 30 team super league means at least 10-12 high end teams will have losing records every year and won't even make a bowl game. That makes the sport much less interesting.
December 11th, 2023 at 3:43 PM ^
A super league will come with revenue sharing to protect against the exact scenario you've proposed.
December 11th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
FSU and the ACC haven't seen Eye to eye here lately. Perhaps They feel Boo Corrigan( ACC) gave them the ultimate middle Finger by leaving them out of the CFP..
December 11th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
"and speaking as someone that frequently makes decisions on emotion"
User name checks out.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
I've got something for you to check out pal.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
I‘m not your pal, buddy.
December 11th, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
I'm not your buddy, friend.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:56 AM ^
Username checks out again.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:05 AM ^
Well there's also the money.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:09 AM ^
Lets assume FSU loses 2-3 games next year or even Louisville. Its possible the CFP committee would leave them out over a 4 loss SEC team because it just means more. Losing 2-3 games in next years B10 won't hurt as much as losing 2-3 games in the ACC.
Having FSU in the conference would make things even more brutal for the conference but fun to watch.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:31 AM ^
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
December 11th, 2023 at 11:44 AM ^
Username irrationally based upon emotion.
December 11th, 2023 at 12:18 PM ^
It's about money, not missing the playoffs.
December 11th, 2023 at 1:08 PM ^
$40 million verse $4 million - I wonder if they accounted for more travel...who knows. The end of the ACC is near.
December 11th, 2023 at 4:49 PM ^
Money. In the end it's always money that soothes the beast.
December 11th, 2023 at 4:59 PM ^
The writing is on the wall that the ACC is going to be a 1 bid league out of the 12. It's going to be ACC Champ, Big 12 Champ, Best G5 Champ, Notre Dame (Unless they're terrible) and then 4 SEC teams and 4 Big 10 teams. You're going to have to win the ACC to sniff the playoff.
Also, FSU is the most debt laden team in the top end of college football. They have no real big money donors. They were an all women's teacher college until the late 40s or early 50s, there's no old money. It's basically "what if you took a directional Michigan school but stuck it in close proximity to most of the top talent in America and gave it the greatest coach of all time 40 years ago"
December 11th, 2023 at 5:05 PM ^
They can take UM’s place when we bolt this conference so maybe next month would work
December 11th, 2023 at 10:39 AM ^
They can come to the B1G, and we become the new big dog in the ACC. Everybody wins!
December 11th, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
You beat me to it! They can have our spot and "good luck with that'
December 11th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
We get FSU/Clemson/BC and a pick 'em - they get Pettiti and a bag of Krispy Kreme, I'm in.
December 11th, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
BC isn't helpful to the conference
Give us FSU, UNC, UVA and ND/Clemson/Miami(FL) as our 4
December 11th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
I mean if "isn't helpful to the conference" is a qualifier, then can we just give them Pettiti, no exchanges?
December 11th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^
The Boston Market ( leave the fast food Boston market out of this ) would bring some value.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:08 AM ^
Why leave the fast-food Boston Market out of this scintillating thread?
I recommend the quarter white with a side of mashed potatoes. Get extra gravy. The creamed spinach is excellent as well. Solid soup, too.
Too bad the chain has fallen on such hard times of late.
December 11th, 2023 at 11:58 AM ^
Legal Seafood would bring more value. That clam chowder is to die for.
December 11th, 2023 at 1:06 PM ^
Canned gravy?