OT: Should Detroit Mercy Pay $50,000 for an Extra Game so Antoine Davis Can Set Scoring Record?
I've seen some mention on the board of this story but not an entire thread. It deserves one. Antoine Davis of Detroit Mercy is just three points shy of Pete Maravich's all-time Division 1 scoring record of 3,667 points, which Maravich accomplished in just three seasons and without the three-point line. Davis scored 3,664 points in five seasons.
Davis came up just short when Detroit Mercy lost in its Horizon League tournament game, but now the fleabag CBI tournament is considering extending a bid to UDM, even though it had a losing record this season (14-19). It would cost UDM a $27,500 entry fee to play in the tourney. When you add in travel expenses, it'll be about $50,000.
The only reason UDM would do this is so that Davis could set the record. What say you? I say that if it happens, that record should not just get an asterisk; it should be put in an entirely different book.
LINK.
5-7 is actually worse than 14-19 (.416 vs. .424). I'd hate for you to be slightly inaccurate.
Such a big fee for a small school. I would not
Give an extra kid a scholarship....
Seems like that money could spent somewhere more useful🤷♂️
Couldn't that be said of the majority of money spent on sports?
This is the most UDM has been talked about nationally in forever so yes they should pay it.
I have not heard one person attempting to say Davis > or = Maravich because everyone seems to understand the apples & oranges of this situation so why the hell not.
I personally don't care at all but if I worked in the UDM administration this seems like a no brainer
Yeah, financially you gotta make the play and honestly, it honors Davis for what's he done at UDM. Nobody really gets hurt in the process and my guess is people inclined to discredit Davis's record-setting career have more than enough ammo and whether or not he breaks said record in a CBI game won't really change their outlook.
Hell No. Davis has been a good story, so let's not ruin it with some dopey ass tournament that most people have never heard of.
Being 2nd all time to Pistol Pete is an amazing accomplishment. Why cheapen it?
Yes
exposure for the school is probably worth more than the $50K.
EDIT: duplicate
Apples & Oranges.Pistol Pete averaged over 40 points per game with no 3 point shot..Davis is around 27 pts.pg.
No. He gave it a run but fell short and his team doesn’t belong in a postseason tournament. Being #2 all-time in scoring is still really good.
Financially it's a no-brainer - that game would get a ton of attention and Davis would break the record. Is it a cheat? Sure, and I get some people being annoyed Davis had 5 years while Maravich had 3.
But Maravich also played during the nascent time of integration (I believe when he graduated there were something like two black players on SEC rosters); LSU didn't play their first black player until a couple years after Maravich graduated. And the years he played were sort of crazy offensively anyway - every first-team All American that year averaged at least 29 ppg and 3 averaged 33+. It was a different era, with different styles and different defensive, um, approaches. And if a guy shot the ball 38 times a game (ignoring the 14 FTs a game as well), like Maravich did, in today's game he'd be pilloried for being a ball hog and would most likely be incredibly inefficient. Davis is averaging 28 points a game on 22 FGa a game.
I'm just not that precious about records anymore; they're all in context and it doesn't invalidate what Maravich accomplished as a player for Davis to score more points over a career than him.
It is really wild that Pistol Pete attempted 3166 shots in three years and Davis attempted 2987 in five years
He shot 3166 FGs and 1152 FTs. Davis has shot 715 FTs total in his career.
In Maravich's last year he attempted 436 FTs - that's only 4 less than MSU has attempted total on the year thus far.
It was just a completely different game back then and I don't think any less of Maravich's accomplishments but all of these records are tinged with the current context of the game and they'll keep changing as the game evolves.
Most sensible take I've heard in all of media. It's a game, so if the players want to play, they should play. Every record is achieved in context, this will just be different context. Let the kid ball!
Yes. The PR is worth more than that.
Who's their richest sports alum, there must be someone right? Shouldn't they just donate the money for it?
Dickie V can post the entry fee and then call the game, bayyyybeeeee.
Dickie V, or Denise Ilitch (Mike Ilitch's Daughter), or Willie Green (Head Coach of the New Orleans Pelicans), or Gary Peters (US Senator)
That's a great fit - students should start a petition to Willie Green for the money?
I say yes, the older I get the more I love to have stuff to complain about.
No. It is a team sport and while individual accomplishments are nice, the whole team activity should not be manipulated just to set a record.
We see things in the pros where someone's consecutive start streak is maintained or players are pulled to protect their batting average, but one could at least make the excuse that the public relations team is trying to work an angle to promote interest from the fans. Here none of these sort of arguments apply.
If UDM accepts that is a shame.
it's not manipulated, any more than conference tournaments as a whole are manipulations of college basketball as a whole for the some of the same reasons: for a chance to get more money and exposure, improve records, and in many cases to increase the conference number of teams to make it it into the tournament. The criteria are arbitrary. Let the kid play.
Because college sports are now all about the money, the $50K investment to get increased national exposure for UDM is worth it.
I appreciate that Antoine has been forthright in not saying that he's better than Maravich and that the eras are entirely different, and he deserves the accolades he is getting for his outstanding season and career.
However, as an old school (and just simply old) fan, I'd say that UDM does not deserve to be in a post season game. Be #2 behind one of the greatest college players ever, you came up a little short, but that's okay. Time to move on.
Absolutey DM should do this. We all know things are different, but how many other players also played that many years with the three point line? Great honor and fun for the team and school and fans. Don't get your panties in a bunch. Let them have fun
I agree with Bursley. What Maravich accomplished was truly remarkable for the all time scoring record, 3 seasons instead of five and NO three point line.
There are the baseball purists that feel Roger Maris needed the 7 extra games in a season to tie then break Babe Ruth's home run record. In this college basketball case, two more seasons plus the extra games played with the season was ample time for Davis to eclipse Pete Maravich's record.
It's not about Antoine Davis' ability and I hope he has a great pro career, wherever he ends up. Good luck to him either way. Too bad UDM had a 14-19 season despite Antoine Davis scoring abilities.
Dale Brown ( Maravich's coach at LSU ) went back and charted all of Pistol's shots and calculated that he made 13 shots per game from behind the non-existent 3 point line, so in a more recent time, he would have averaged 57 points per game. He also was one of best and creative passers of the basketball at ANY level. ( edit: I saw this stat was posted earlier).
Gimmick game or not for Antoine Davis, he is nowhere near the class scorer of Pete Maravich.
Yes. That is a landmark record. The marketing value would be enormous. No one will care about how he got it in the long run.
The CBI should wave the fee. It would probably be the most people to ever watch one of their games.
I think I could live with myself if I only managed to score 3,664 points playing college basketball. But that's just me.
True, but not everyone looks as good as you do shirtless.
While riding an Honolulu Blue Lion!
no.
they will, since he’s the coach’s kid.
Not as impressive as Maravich, by a long shot. But if I were UDM, that would sound cheap. Just getting the university's name mentioned repeatedly in the media would be worth it. Absolutely they should go for it.
Basketball is basketball. There is no reason to turn down an opportunity to play more. For Davis and the other graduate students on the team, it's one more shot to play and possibly win a game. Of course they should accept the offer and play.
Everyone knows the records are not really comparable due to Maravich's 3 years and no 3 point shot vs Davis's 5 years (though the 2020-21 season was only 22 games due to COVID, compared to 30+ in normal years) and 50% "bonus" on 3 point shots. There are plenty of other players who had the same opportunity to break the record over the past 5 years and no one else has yet come close. So any attempt to tear Davis down for potentially breaking it in a postseason invitational tournament is pretty weak.
The tournament fee is being covered by boosters, so it's not like the school is paying much, if anything, out of their own funds for participation.
Whatta you know, integrity does have a price. Hopefully this young man chooses the better path. I'm not in his shoes and I don't have to live with it, but this seems pretty sleazy to me.
I'd feel the exact same way if it were a UM player.
This discussion will be meaningless in 2030 when the MTV Rock-N-Jock 10 point circles are added to the game.
Why not? Pistol Pete will be forever remembered as the guy who first set the record in spite of the rules changes that allowed it to be challenged years later. Has Babe Ruth been forgotten? Does anyone know who holds the home run record now? Well, some do ... but not the regular (or irregular) fan. If Detroit Mercy gets some PR out of it, and perhaps can improve their program somehow as a result, go for it!
Does anyone know who holds the home run record now?
Easy.
It's Aaron Judge
No, and it shouldn't be treated as the record if he gets it.
How much does the asterisk cost?
Yeah, why not?
As long as they are going to include the (significantly expanded) post-season schedule (as well as expanded regular season) in records, why should players on the most successful programs get the easiest (already downhill) path to individual records.
Don't punish the individual player for the sub-par performance of the team as a whole.
Ideally the most deserving teams would get in, but basketball is fun and hope all the players enjoy it if they get in.
The CBI, and whatever other sub-NIT tournament is called, shouldn't exit. But if UDM is invited, I don't think they need to turn it down to defend the honor of Pistol Pete's scoring record, which I learned about yesterday.
From the moral high ground perspective, there's no way UDM should do this. UDM, however, is not a program which is large enough to inhabit the moral high ground. They have to do this from a marketing/recruiting standpoint.
Setting aside the ethics of paying to get a record ...
Interesting stuff in this thread about different eras of college basketball. It would seem that Pete's era was higher scoring and more offensively minded than today's game. Could it be that the 3-point shot and shot clock lead to less offense not more? Certainly the shot clock leads to many hurried and bad shots as the clock winds down. Shots that wouldn't be taken with a longer or no shot clock.
I've wondered that too, even at the HS level. When my (currently 70 yr old) Dad played high school ball a lot of their games easily reached the low 80s, but high school games reaching those scores are pretty rare these days even with the 3 point shot.
So Davis would score his in 163 games while Maravich played in a 154 game season? Definitely needs an asterisk.
/s