Medfordblue

December 14th, 2020 at 12:07 PM ^

As a graduate of Holland High School I applaud your condemnation of the Dutch.  They should drop the name “Dutchmen” and name them selves the stealing destroyers of Indian lands and culture, or maybe just “Indians” for short so the Indian culture can be reborn.

Joined: 02/08/2015

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jmblue

December 14th, 2020 at 8:41 AM ^

The Greek pronunciation had the /k/ sound, but my understanding is that the current Celtic languages pronounce it with that also, and the trend came from a desire to approximate that. 

It bugs me a little because it violates a rule of pronunciation :  C is soft before the letters E and I.  

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 102818

Lakeyale13

December 13th, 2020 at 10:30 PM ^

I just don’t see how the name “Indian” can be offensive.  I can see how it is incorrect (Didn’t land in India and Native Americans is probably better term). Furthermore, I have never ever heard anyone utter the word “Indian” as a racial slur of any kind. But if a significant population of native Americans find the term “Indian” offensive (which I would bet my 401k they don’t) then change the name. 
 

Now, their mascot was totally offensive and a horrible representation of Native peoples. That shite should have been changed decades ago. Glad to see that dude gone. 

Joined: 11/16/2014

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jmblue

December 13th, 2020 at 11:15 PM ^

The word "Indian" isn't necessarily offensive, but the context matters.  The issue is that for 120 years, you had non-Indians appropriating that name in their competition.  And then it was combined with a totally over-the-top logo, tomahawk chop, etc., that made it made it seem like the intention was to describe them as primitive, warlike beings.  

Imagine that you had a sports team that called itself the "Africans," with a mascot in blackface...      

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 102818

Phaedrus

December 14th, 2020 at 1:39 AM ^

That is not why the Fighting Irish have that name. They actually stole it from a local high school. It was always to make fun of the Irish. Notre Dame, as the name might suggest, was originally a French Catholic university.

The university has made up all sorts of stories to justify it, but the truth is the name and mascot were just a stereotype of Irish people. The ironic thing is that, because it's a Catholic university and there are a lot of midwesterners with Irish heritage, instead of being offended by a team and mascot that made fun of them, Irish Catholics identified with the university and enrolled there in droves.

The thing is, it's really hard to be racist to Irish people and actually offend them because they're proud of everything they're made fun of. It's actually pretty admirable, because it demonstrates thick skin and nobody has to worry about offending the Irish. You can only offend them indirectly, like by insulting the Catholic church or their football team.

Joined: 09/02/2019

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Mpfnfu Ford

December 14th, 2020 at 1:57 PM ^

The reality is the university faced so many threats of violence from the Indiana KKK and other surrounding states that they made the racist and religiously bigoted jeers against them into a nickname they embraced.

There's a college in rural North Carolina called UNC Pembroke in the center of Lumbee tribal lands. It was started as an indian only normal school and slowly expanded into being a system school for UNC. Their mascot is the Braves. Every single person involved in the decision on what to name the school's mascot is Indian, and a few of them were at the famous Battle of Hayes Pond in the 50s when a bunch of local Indians ran the Klan back to South Carolina by attacking them during their cross burning. Nobody has a problem with the UNC-P Braves.

Again, a catholic school with tons and tons of people of Irish descent involved in making a decision to adopt a mascot is not in any way similar to a pro team that had an all-white ownership making the decision to make their mascot Indians because "it's a scary intimidating name, what with Indians being such savage warriors and whatnot." 

Joined: 05/19/2012

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jmblue

December 14th, 2020 at 8:52 AM ^

Here's the thing though.  Even if the name "Indians" was originally intended to honor Sockalexis, the intent evidently changed at some point (around the time this guy made an appearance) to give it a savage connotation.  If they had actually tried to keep their imagery respectful all this time, that would be one thing, but they did not.

 

Joined: 11/07/2008

MGoPoints: 102818

jmblue

December 14th, 2020 at 9:05 AM ^

I agree that "Fighting Irish" (and the mascot!) are a bit iffy, but that's more of a case of people attempting to reclaim a slur and use it for their own purposes.

If you had a British sports team, with few or no Irish players, calling itself the "Fighting Irish" and using that mascot, that would be more analogous to Cleveland Indians.  

Joined: 11/07/2008

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roy schneider

December 14th, 2020 at 12:46 PM ^

I thought that the original intent of calling your team Cleveland Indians was to reference a culture that was considered Strong, Courageous, Tough and Resilient--? That was the mentality and culture that the team chose to represent as reference to their style of competitive play. What is racist about being considered a strong and courageous class of people? The whole idea is to bring a certain attitude and reputation of strength that relates to competitive advantage in sports. Why be called a Wolverine if you don't represent the tough, mean attitude of that animal?

Joined: 08/23/2017

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MGoGrendel

December 13th, 2020 at 10:32 PM ^

I graduated from Chippewa Valley High School in Mt. Clemens.   Every school in the district, from elementary up, honored a Native American tribe with its school name.  Same way FSU, Illinois, and others do (and EMU once did).  If Cleveland honored a tribe, like the Blackhawks do, they would have an argument (IMHO) to keeping their name.

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