An omnious quote about Jordan Poole
Take it FWIW but Nah'shon Hyland (Middletown, DE Guard) said this, "Michigan. They said they have an open spot because their shooting guard is staying in the draft."
I choose to believe that this young man is misinformed.
Well that pretty much sums it up I guess.
To Michigan fans, Poole is the seal and the NBA draft is the polar bear.
The longer version of that GIF - the polar bear misjudged his position and MISSED his meal of a seal!
Did anyone really think he was coming back? I thought his dad's response about Michigan fans and his seemingly irritated remark about Jordon being told to stand in the corner on Twitter was proof enough. Sam said that LaVell Blanchard made a ton of money in Europe and that is also an option for guys not being drafted, so that may be his fall back plan. I don't think he will get drafted, but I wish him nothing but the best, and hope he goes in the 1st round.
I think their was some hope just because it seemed like Jordan loved being a Michigan student and everything that came with it, and that there is some serious short comings in his game that translate to a projected lower 2nd round draft pick. But there was serious signs that he was gonna leave the whole time yes.
April 16th, 2019 at 11:10 PM ^
Certainly there's nothing wrong with leaving early to be a G League lifer.
Clearly Iggy thinks so, too.
April 17th, 2019 at 12:00 PM ^
Sam Webb has been adamant that he thinks Poole is not coming back and that he's been hearing rumblings about it since the beginning of the season.
I thought the more ominous quote was "I'm declaring for the NBA draft", but so be it.
Poole probably isn't coming back. That's probably a mistake for him, but not going to begrudge a guy for trying to make his mark.
Why do you think it was a mistake for him to leave?
If he has the NBA level talent, then he should leave ASAP. He will get better much faster while playing professional ball (e.g., at G League).
If he does not have the talent, then he should stay and finish his degree.
I don't understand why a kid with NBA level talent should stay in college. He has a better chance of reaching his potential by playing and training more.
There's a spectrum for "NBA talent" that, frankly, isn't as binary as some people make it out to be. Mo Wagner had talent from the moment he stepped onto campus, but even after his first cycle through the draft process the issues were "Isn't an elite athlete, needs to get get better all around to justify a 1st-round selection". So he came back, improved, and was drafted in the first round. And that's a huge deal, since he got a guaranteed contract and some buy-in from the Lakers that let him stick around in the league and get all that coaching and development. Going in the 2nd round almost always gets you multiple trips to and from the G-League, where (frankly) you don't necessarily get a ton of coaching or development. Some of those guys absolutely make it to the league, but basketball is so much about fit and skill level that even a slight deviation maybe means you miss your window and you don't get another chance; the foreigns leagues are littered with guys who probably could be the #8 guy on an NBA roster and in a better situation maybe could have worked his way into the rotation with some different luck.
So my feeling with Poole is that if the world is telling you "you may get drafted late in the 2nd round, but you should probably go back to school" then he should. It doesn't diminish his overall NBA talent, but it gives him a chance to address his shortcomings in a better environment and puts him in a better position to get that buy-in from a team.
Do you really think his chances of getting drafted in the first round increases significantly by coming back? I personally think it won't change much. He really needs to shoot well in combine. If he does, he will get drafted and probably end up where he would have been he came back next year.
April 16th, 2019 at 11:47 PM ^
I think his chances of being drafted in the 1st round right now are about 0%. If he came back next year and blew up, his chances of being drafted in the 1st round would be far greater than 0%.
But if he doesn't want to be here, whatever.
I sure as hell don’t see NBA talent but whatever. If he wants to leave then fine let’s move on and get someone who won’t take terrible shots every game.
If you don’t see it, you have no eye for talent. As for “terrible shots,” you must not understand basketball - elite players take difficult shots all the time and that’s still better than somebody else bricking an open shot.
Jordan Poole has POTENTIAL. He absolutely does not have NBA level TALENT.
I hope he develops in whatever D-league he lands in. But he is not guaranteed any spot in the NBA right now. And if his departure has anything to do with public commentary, that shit doesn't improve by moving from NCAA to NBA.
You sir are 100% wrong, on the current roster Poole has the most NBA talent.
What if his stance is we really dont have any NBA talent (yet). But given another year to Poole and Iggy maybe they make real progress like Hardaway did.
Let's hope NBA defense is a downgrade from Matt McQuaid
April 17th, 2019 at 10:56 AM ^
Actually, you can be an elite player (which he is not--very good, but not elite) and still take shots that are considered terrible. This is especially true in a system like Beilein's. JP was 100 times better when he was cutting to the basket or getting looks from the flow of the offense, or in transition. And yes, that can be said of several players on the team. But you can't tell me that you didn't see the offense stall on numerous occasions when it got in his hands and he started dribbling in place on the perimeter, making 4 different moves and jab steps but going nowhere before jacking up a 3. This is where I think the perspective of him having the "potential" to be an NBA level player comes from. He isn't there yet. But if he wants to go, go. As much as we loved his energy, swag, smile, I never saw him completely buy in to JBs system. Beilein basically said that last night on the Huge show--he only wants a guy to come back if they are going to be fully invested in Michigan. If their mind is just on getting to the league, than they might as well stay in the draft.
The question is which gives you a better chance:
- Coming back and improving yourself into a first round pick
- Getting drafted late 2nd or not all, and seeing if you can play yourself onto a roster from the G-League.
I tend to think that even being the same player, just placed as more of a focal point of the offense next year, a guy like Poole could display enough talent/numbers to get himself into first round. However, I still think its perfectly reasonable for a guy to be OK with leaving to go play G-League and see if he can get a contract. I mean the G-league you are still getting paid something, getting professional coaching everyday, and you're a few injuries on an NBA squad from getting to play in the league.
"I tend to think that even being the same player, just placed as more of a focal point of the offense next year, a guy like Poole could display enough talent/numbers to get himself into first round"
I agree with this statement, but the problem is that it isn't only on Poole. If he think that the limitations that hampered the team this year still exist, why would he want to come back?
I don't think he improved that much over last year. His defense is not very good, and made poor decisions with the ball in his hands. If his shot isn't falling, he disappears. Other guys found ways to contribute when their offense was lacking, but he just disappeared.
Watching him just fall asleep on defense in big games was really frustrating. I think his head's just in a weird place. I hope he pulls it together and finds great success in the NBA, I just wish he had done it at Michigan though.
How did coming back work for Charles (except for getting his degree)? You realize there is plenty of money to be made playing overseas right? The NBA doesn't draft on your numbers they draft on your potential. Why does this need to be repeated every single year?
April 17th, 2019 at 12:45 PM ^
Charles was a year further along last year than Poole this year and Charles looked more pro ready last year than Poole looks this year. Not sure that is the best comparison.
I disagree with this take. While I think there are reasons why taking the G-league route may make sense for some people, I would love to see the stats about how many guys actually make it to the league that way. There's no guaranteed money, you're fighting with a ton of guys for a few spots, you're playing in empty gyms, etc.
Would Trey Burke, THJ, GR3, Stauskas, or Moe been where they are now had they left immediately after their freshmen years? They have NBA talent clearly, but none of them would have been drafted at that point and they would have had to fight their way into the league.
Instead, they came back to be coached by one of the best talent developers in the NCAA while playing 30+ minutes per night on national television and in front of big crowds. They were all drafted in the top 40 picks, got real contracts, and have lasted in the league.
Darius Morris, Manny Harris, and Derrick Walton are closer comparables to Poole right now. They're all playing professionally somewhere....but not in the NBA. Poole's challenge is whether he's willing to end up with that career path or wants to roll the dice that another year under Beilein will get him into the first round. Tough decision either way.
I would also say Morris, Harris, and Walton were all better players than. Poole.
I've been arguing this the past week with people
How good you are going into your first year in the NBA has a huge impact on your future in the league.
You can be averaging 25 PPG in the G League and still only get a few 10 day contracts
There are 450 spots in the entire NBA. Few people's odds are good. On the other hand, the people who do it love the game, are engaged in a creative endeavor, and work their tails off. I begrudge no one who pursues their chosen path.
And second-guessing is a mug's game--we're in possession of so little of the data that Jordan and his family are. . .
You get a heck of a lot more exposure in college than in the G league. That alone can build your brand and make you more in demand.
At the end of the day it’s their choice but college may be preferential to G league especially when you consider you’d be developing under JB and his staff.
This is often underplayed way to much. Zion will sign a huge shoe deal soon that will all be based off his college exposure. I don’t think Poole would ever get that big of an endorsement, but another year of exposure at Michigan and being a first round pick would certainly get him a lot more endorsement dollars.
Zion was a phenom and did not need exposure from Duke to sign a huge shoe deal. Not saying it hurt him, but there are many reasons why Zion could have played in college for zero years, Poole could stay for all 4 - they could both be first round picks and Zion would still dwarf any potential endorsement deal for Poole.
The shoe deal with Nike did hurt him. Literally.
Yep, Zion did not play for nothing this year. Far from it. He earned himself something like $100M in endorsement deals and he doesn't have to be a good NBA player to get it.
Had he gone directly to the NBA as a relatively unknown third ranked player in his HS class, he'd have to be a top NBA player to earn those kinds of deals. He might be a top NBA player but he just secured a ton of money without needing to be a top player.
That isn't happening for Poole though. Very few guys put on the kind of show in college that Zion did.
I wonder if Nike will be one of those endorsement deals.
will? He probably already did. At least that's what Avenatti says.
s/
If it was just a matter of reps and getting stronger I’d agree with this. But Poole’s deficiencies are decision-making and shot selection. Coach B can help improve this. It’s not something you pick up just from being in a gym all day getting reps. The coaches in the G-League are not the greatest teachers - no way does Jordan improve those skills more by playing in the G-League instead of at Michigan.
But to each his own and if he thinks he’s ready, more power to him. Unfortunately, G-League average salary is something like $30k, so if he does make the jump, I hope he gets drafted or learns quickly.
I think the crux of the situation is the nature of the coaching a player gets in the G-League or other pro orgs, and what Poole needs in order to be good enough to stick in the pros.
The assumption on the part of those who say "he doesn't need to stay at Michigan because he can get more coaching in the pros" is that coaches in the pros (G-league or wherever) are actually going to be working with players on basketball fundamentals the way Beilein and his staff would be. I'm no expert on basketball but I can't believe that there aren't areas of basketball fundamentals in which a college sophomore like Poole needs to improve.
From what I've read and heard over the years, coaching in the pros is much more about using talent on hand to win games rather than working with players individually to develop basic skills. The assumption is that the players have those basic skills down by the time they get there.
It would be interesting to talk to somebody who's actually been in the G-league to find out what the coaching is like.
I could not disagree more with this. The NBA is not good at developing talent at all, they are good at figuring out how to use elite talent to win games. In the years where players were going straight to the NBA from high school, you noted a significant drop in the skill level in the NBA and it was even more notable in the US Olympic team. Those kids all get at least a year of college now and the NBA is better than ever, that is not a coincidence.
I would love to see the stats on how many guys make it from the Gleague to a regular spot on a roster, especially if that is cross referenced with draft position. So, a guy like Burke has a better shot of getting back into the NBA because he was a top ten pick. Whether it is basketball or football being a top pick means you will get many more chances. Not only does being a top pick give you guaranteed money, but it ensures that if you slip up you will still stick around.
I think this was a huge career mistake for Jordan. Hope I am wrong.
Plus, the 2nd round types who end up with decent NBA careers are guys who can do 1 thing at an elite level: 3 shooting (hence D Rob's contract), rebounding, passing, defense. I'm not sure that Poole does anything at an elite NBA level. Maybe he can develop his 3 enough to get into the league.
April 16th, 2019 at 11:55 PM ^
He shot 37% from 3 both this year and last year.
In comparison Stauskas shot 44% both years he was here. And his shot is barely enough to keep him on the floor in the NBA.
He has the physical talent and skill, but he mentally is not ready and that is holding him back
Well, if you don’t see any possibility, why ask? Have you done a comparative analysis of second round picks that have developed in G-League into NBAers versus marginally-graded prospects who came back and moved their draft grades up and/or developed their games?
If you think G-League coaches are better than Coach B or Coach K or Roy or Self, then why do NCAAA coaches get hired as pro head coaches but not G-League coaches? Why didn’t guys like Jimmer not somehow bloom anymore under the tutelage of Jimmy Boondocks, head coach of the Wyoming Cattle Ranchers?
i don’t know, but I can imagine a bunch of 5-stars at UK who don’t declare and stay will improve more against the next year of 5-stars than they would against minor leaguers from Valdosta State and Siena.
That explains why so many players have become stars from the G league but no one has ever improved their stock in college! oh, wait..
In today's age, anyone with significant pro potential can and should declare for the draft to get a good evaluation of where they stand from people whose job it is to give them an honest evaluation. This is much better than friends of the family or potential agents promising them that they'll "shoot up draft boards" based on who knows what. Actual scouts and franchises have a chance to tell players what they really think.
I don't think it's ominous at all when a player declares anymore, not if they remain eligible to return. In this case, Poole's statement was balanced and clearly left open a possibility of returning. It's part of the process.
The other stuff is harder to read but much less promising.
It was more that the statement he made didn't feel like it was full of optimism about returning; I know some people read it as such but given the context around him the past couple of weeks it felt a bit more of a goodbye than a "I'm just going to see what they say." Also, not for nothing I think most of these guys have a pretty good idea where they stand heading into the draft process; I certainly assume these guys have been reading the various draft projections and big boards put out by every publication the past 3-4 months. Like, I doubt Poole shows up and someone says "no, you're totally a top-25 pick".
Again, I want him to do what's best for him, and he should give absolutely 0 shits about what some goober on the internet thinks are his chances in the NBA. I want to make that very clear. I just feel like he'd benefit more from another year in college, improving as a higher-usage player than getting on a bus to play in Ames, Iowa one night and then Topeka, Kansas the next in front of 1,000 people while getting somewhat non-existent coaching.
April 17th, 2019 at 12:26 AM ^
Dude, it's "omnious" - can't you read?
The clear sign was in his father's tweet that Poole is not coming back. Even if he gets a bad evaluation from NBA, he is not coming back.