October 26th, 2019 at 12:35 PM ^
I think he said "at every level" not literally every position.
October 26th, 2019 at 1:28 PM ^
Their talent is amazing. Watching Chase Young makes me sad. It is a realization of what I think we all hoped Rashan Gary would be. I don't think I ever saw Gary take over a game like Chase is doing right now.
October 26th, 2019 at 1:43 PM ^
Gary and Chase are two different players though. Chase Young was always touted as a pure pash rushing WDE. Gary was ranked as a DT. It’s not even a comparison that can be made at any point. Chase Young isn’t the kind of player Gary was every going to be.
October 26th, 2019 at 1:47 PM ^
Dude, the point I'm trying to make is Rashan Gary NEVER impacted a game defensively as Chase Young has today. I don't care what position he was playing. Gary never defensively just took a game over. Chase Young has done that so far today.
Furthermore, If you have a 290lb player that runs a 4.5 and you don't have him rushing the passer you are a dumbass.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:00 PM ^
Gary’s position isn’t designed to “take over games.” It isn’t a position designed to put up stats. You have to understand the defense.
Gary doing what he did put guys like Bush and Winovich in position to put up the numbers they did. Set the edge, collapse the pocket, allow pressure to come in.
and he was so good at doing so, he was voted first team all conference by the coaches twice.
If you know how to look at more than just a stat sheet, Gary was very good at his position. 4.5 speed has literally nothing to do with pass rushing by the way.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:07 PM ^
Yes, you are right, speed has nothing to do with rushing the passer. Like...speed has zero impact on rushing the passer.
Dwight Freeney
Lawrence Taylor
JJ Watt
Chase Young
Joey Bosa
#EveryElitePassRusherEver
October 26th, 2019 at 2:18 PM ^
40 yard dash measures straight line speed. DEs don’t run in a straight line. They run while engaged with a blocker. So no, speed doesn’t make you a good pass rusher. Speed is a valuable asset to have, but that’s true of any position. It’s not indicative of a good pass rusher.
JJ Watt, for one of your examples, ran a 4.84 40. Elite pass rusher.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:25 PM ^
Correct...speed is only one component of a great pass rusher. I am simply disagreeing with your premise that (4.5 speed has literally nothing to do with rushing the passer).
October 26th, 2019 at 2:09 PM ^
Why don't people stop with this bullshit argument? Brandon Graham took over games, Maurice Hurst took over games, Lamar Woodley took over games, Mark Messner took over games. Gary was a good player, he just wasn't dominant. Its OK, it's not a shot at the guy.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:14 PM ^
Agreed! No one is calling Gary a horrible human being. Simply making an observation that he never took over a game. He was a solid player. Just not the superstar we hoped a Consensus #1 Recruit would be.
Dan Patrick was kind of hitting this topic this week on his show. He was saying that, fairly or unfairly, if you are a top 5 pick in the NFL draft you have expectations of being a Hall of Fame level talent. I would say similarly, that if you are a consensus #1 Recruit you have expectations of being an All Time Great at your school. Gary was very good, but not anywhere near an all time great.
October 26th, 2019 at 4:50 PM ^
The NFL is always the last judge.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:15 PM ^
Yeah, I do not understand why people have to make all these arbitrary arguments for Gary.
If you are elite in college, you should dominate everyone in front of you. Gary's impact for Michigan was not nearly as strong as it should/could have been.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:22 PM ^
Didn't they play Gary out of position at DE ? IIRC he should have been a DT.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:33 PM ^
Apparently not, because Green Bay has him at OLB.
Look, Rashan was really good for us. But he was hurt a lot, and did not dominate at his position the way the best of the best are able to dominate. JJ Watt is mentioned here; he was a DT, not a WDE, and plays a 3-4 DE spot in the NFL that is not usually a big pass rushing role. He was dominant anyway. Suh was a DT in college, and he was dominant.
And, as others have mentioned, guys like Mo Hurst here have also been dominant in ways Gary was not.
Gary was very good. Had some circumstances working against him. I don’t consider him a disappointment, and many great prospects have a similar performance level in college (even JaDaveon Clowney’s last year in college was like this). But he didn’t dominate games. He just didn’t.
October 26th, 2019 at 3:55 PM ^
Gary was asked similar to Jabrill Peppers to play specifically for the unique/variable schemes that Michigan was going to run to best utilize their unique abilities.
Peppers was a tweener. Gary was a tweener.
Both had insane measureables, given their specific combination of height/weight/length/speed/etc. But the underwear olympics is not what makes a good football player. A good football player is what makes a good football player.
That being said, Brown & Co. used both Peppers and Gary in unique ways which allowed Michigan to show more exotic looks which the coaches believed would be useful.
Gary and Peppers both had edge assignments and were used in unique ways that only they themselves could phsyically do given their specifically unusual combination of athletic traits, which allowed the rest of the defense to read/key different responsibilities which they would otherwise not be able to do without Peppers and Gary being able to do what they do.
Peppers and Gary were tweeners.
Both Peppers and Gary went in the 1st round.
Both Peppers and Gary are playing at a high-level in the NFL at a position they did not play in college.
Peppers and Gary had a huge impact for their team.
College Football is not the NFL, and the NFL is not College Football.
Plenty of Heisman winning QBs would agree.
This has been beaten to death, and it betrays a reductive understanding of football, scheme, and athletic measureables.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:56 PM ^
I watched Ndamukong Suh single handily beat Texas. He was a DT.
October 26th, 2019 at 3:03 PM ^
“Literally nothing to do with” and speed and any sport literally never go together. You are saying there’s a 0% chance speed factors into playing a sport that is predicated on speed.
Gary was a speed rusher who ran up the field past the QB and “set the edge” using his speed. However, he never did it to the level that he was touted to have the capability to do so. He’s a good young man, a good player, but he never took over RTs the way Chase You g has taken over LTs.
October 30th, 2019 at 5:05 PM ^
Thank you no one seems to be talking about the games that gary faced a double team on damn near every play( especially the indiana and osu game, where had our DT's made any type of play would have forced them to have to leave one lineman to block him and would amount in a win by gary) but they want to talk about young getting one on ones with Tackles that probably wont be playing on the next level. the defenses were not designed the same, so gary was not going to make splash plays like young, but clearly he had the skills and was thought high enough that the packers took him early. also I think if he played DT he would have had less chances at being double teamed.
October 26th, 2019 at 3:07 PM ^
Jennifer is that you ?
October 26th, 2019 at 3:53 PM ^
Agreed. One is great and the other was good.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^
It is as sad and simple this, Ohio State's coaching staff does a much better job of putting their players in a position to succeed. Period.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:50 PM ^
Yep, once they hired Mattison and he suddenly understood how to put people in position to succeed, it was all over. You think talent may have something to do with it? Or maybe not having an obvious weak link you can exploit?
October 26th, 2019 at 3:21 PM ^
Ohio State recruits better talent because they win and get players to the NFL. They put their players it positions to succeed and excel. They reach their full potential. Michigan does not.
October 26th, 2019 at 5:58 PM ^
They got there initially by Tressel cheating.
October 26th, 2019 at 3:05 PM ^
Larry Johnson is a hell of a coach and dude for that matter
October 26th, 2019 at 3:54 PM ^
I know PSU was afraid of losing him after his oldest son graduated ('99) and again after his younger son (Tony) graduated in 2003. He had a chance to go to Illinois as a DC and assistant HC in 2009, before the Sandusky indictment broke in November of that year. (He never showed up in any of the depositions or testimonies re: any knowledge.) He was hugely respected here and I know folks were seriously bummed that he left, esp. to go to another BIG team. His players at both schools revere him, in no small part b/c he has such an excellent track record insofar as getting people to the NFL.
October 26th, 2019 at 5:44 PM ^
Young has more sacks in the past two games than Gary had in 3 years.
He is better than either of the Bosa brothers. One man wrecking crew.
October 26th, 2019 at 6:25 PM ^
Hahahahahha you don't seem to recall a game like that?
Maybe because rashan gary finished his junior year w 3.5 sacks total
LOL "don't think I ever saw Gary take over a game like Chase" goes down for no duh eyeroll comment of the year
October 26th, 2019 at 12:36 PM ^
Sounds like hyperbole.
October 26th, 2019 at 12:36 PM ^
?????????????
October 26th, 2019 at 12:38 PM ^
Yes. They have 6842 five stars on their 2 deep
October 26th, 2019 at 12:39 PM ^
The urban effect
October 26th, 2019 at 1:46 PM ^
Day is putting together a pretty good class on his own as well. Not to mention he recruited many of Urbans current players as well
October 26th, 2019 at 12:41 PM ^
Your first mistake was listening to the announcers
Your second mistake was posting that nonsense here
October 26th, 2019 at 1:14 PM ^
Gus and Klatt are two of the best, so.
October 26th, 2019 at 1:21 PM ^
No chance. Iowa landed a slant against Michigan and klatt says “getting burnt on crossing routes again”. Also see Brian’s example of the coverage cam. Klatt is hot garbage, almost herbie level
October 26th, 2019 at 1:22 PM ^
Agreed.
This OSU defense is incredible. Chase Young is the best defensive player in the country. He is unblockable. Michigan is going to have their hands full.
October 26th, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^
The best that money can buy, or do you think OSU went honest?
October 26th, 2019 at 2:54 PM ^
Ahhh, the Michigan difference. If they're better than us, they must have cheated somehow.
October 26th, 2019 at 4:08 PM ^
This just in! OSU, not satisfied with respectable coaching of both Earl Bruce and John Cooper, hired Cheater McCheat back in 2001. They promptly won over 80 percent of their games, more if you count the ones they had to vacate after NCAA infractions. Following the resignation of Jim Tressel, and the one year interimship of Luke Fickel, Urban Meyer was hired. Meyer, who's health miraculously improved following his resignation at Florida due to health reasons, then went on to win over 90% of his games before deciding to retire again for health reasons. Possibly his, possibly program ills that he allowed to fester since his days at Florida.
Tressel and Meyer - especially Meyer - were good coaches but they cut a lot of corners. They built the Ohio State program to the top tier, up there with Clemson and Alabama, but they didn't do it the right way. Day inherits a monster of a program, but one that was built up in a shady fashion. He might be running a clean program now, but the championship winning was done when the program was not so clean.
October 26th, 2019 at 4:17 PM ^
While I give you credit for creativity, I’m nearly certain “interimship” is not a word
October 26th, 2019 at 6:00 PM ^
Really? This is the best take you can come up? OSU and UM recruited many of the same players in the 2001 and after period. UM got some, OSU got some. So I guess you're saying that UM got the honest kids who wouldn't take money and OSU got the cheaters.
OK.........
October 26th, 2019 at 6:31 PM ^
Yes, it's the best take I can come up with, the one that's the truth. I'm not going to denigrate every Ohio State player; like you said, we went after many of the same guys. The program under Tressel was a mess; there was a lot more going on than just 'Tat gate'; that was the official thing that got him burned. Players were getting 'deals' on cars, money was being given away; institutionally, it was a mess. Our program doesn't do things like that and before you go off with, 'I'm sure they do' remember, we're that program that got busted for practicing a little bit too long. If the crap that happened in Columbus was happening in Ann Arbor it would be in the news and there would be hell to pay.
October 26th, 2019 at 6:01 PM ^
Tressel resigned because he covered up the fact his players were selling/trading their own personal items for tattoos and he didn’t coach a single game after that. I have a hard time seeing how this gave them any competitive advantage.
Meyer might be a dirtbag and you can accuse him of cheating, but there’s no proof to show it. The texts from his phone showed they stopped recruiting a player who they thought was after extra benefits and also stopped recruiting Micah Parsons after a minor infraction. Tell yourself whatever it takes to justify them being elite while we’re not. I’m not sure what corners they cut, but I wouldn’t mind taking the same route.
October 26th, 2019 at 6:42 PM ^
Oh, I'm pretty sure Urban cheated; ask his wife. It's not just about cheating, it's about winning at any cost. Did you know nearly half of Florida's 2008 National Championship team was arrested at some time? NEARLY HALF. I don't know if 'dirtbag' suitably describes a coach that allows that to happen under his watch. Then it was, 'see ya Florida, welcome to THE Ohio State University'. Just win, baby. That's not going to fly at Michigan; if that's the 'route' you wouldn't mind taking you might want to take your fanship - fanship, is that a word? If not, I just invented it. Like I did interimship - elsewhere.
p.s. my apologies if I come across as a dick
October 26th, 2019 at 9:41 PM ^
This “they cheat” nonsense is why everyone laughs at us. Lol
October 26th, 2019 at 1:27 PM ^
...sooooo announcers, in general, are not here to inform you or even be accurate with information. Their job is to entertain which oftentimes means filling dead air with hyperbole & off the cuff "knowledge" that hasn't been fact checked. Analytics are the most obvious area that announcers show their ignorance & some are so bad (looking at you ARod) that they flat out make shit up. Announcers are a poor way to learn the intricacies of any sport
October 26th, 2019 at 1:49 PM ^
Gus one of the best? You can’t be serious. I like the announcers to show some emotion but I’d rather not feel like my TV is shrieking at me
October 26th, 2019 at 1:18 PM ^
So many closet OSU fans on here it’s ridiculous
October 26th, 2019 at 2:29 PM ^
They're basically Monica Lewinskys who just really want to suck the most famous dick they can get their mouth on.