Michigan vs. Arizona St. (MBB) Snowflakes
November 17th, 2022 at 11:45 PM ^
Looks like I picked the wrong night to watch Michigan Wolverines hockey and basketball on TV.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:11 AM ^
I'm just thankful it wasnt A(drian) Nunez toasting us tonite.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:30 AM ^
Howard’s issues finding a PG and having to rely on transfers is eerily similar to Harbaugh’s issues finding a QB and having to rely on transfers earlier in his tenure.
November 18th, 2022 at 1:09 AM ^
Except for the fact that that Howard wasn't a former PG and didn't come in with a reputation as a PG guru. Which makes the Harbaugh QB thing all the more puzzling.
But yeah, we've been light on recruitment of guards since Howard got here, and it's a little concerning...
November 18th, 2022 at 6:55 AM ^
Since Howard got here:
2019: He was hired in May and got Franz, so no worries.
2020: Zeb was committed and was kept in the class. No other guys that projected to guard. Mike Smith was added.
2021: Frankie, maybe Kobe, no other guards. DeVante' Jones was added.
2022: Dug, no other guards. Jaelin was added. Zeb and Frankie (bit of a double d'oh for PG development) depart.
You could definitely say he's been light on recruiting and developing HS guards. His transfers have been contributors but not stars. His vision for the team seems to involve a "game manager" at the sole guard position. Maybe?
November 18th, 2022 at 8:36 AM ^
I'd rather have Frankie starting than the Dug and Lllew. I don't understand letting him get away.
November 18th, 2022 at 9:03 AM ^
What did Frankie do last night that made you want him over the other two? Llew should be given benefit of the doubt that Jones and Smith got. Dug is still a freshman and is almost as good as Frankie already.
I would like us to maybe get PGs taller than 6 ft or ones that can shoot to compensate for lack of height. Those tend to be top 50ish recruits and hard to reel in even with a popular head coach.
November 18th, 2022 at 9:22 AM ^
It wasn't one particular thing that Collins did last night, it was the energy and defense that he brings that I miss. Michigan is utterly lacking any "edge," and while you can say that is just a catch phrase it isn't. It matters. He was developing his playing personality in the tournament last year, and frankly, his transfer was completely baffling to me. I thought he and Bufkin were going to compliment each other very well and was excited about it.
It is still way to early to get too down on Llew though. It will take some time for him to adjust and for this team to develop its personality. (He could make some free throws in the mean time, however).
I'm not particularly crazy about our starting lineup. I think TW2 is a true sixth man and think he should take a look at Baker. On the tail end I think Howard should look closer at his other son for some more minutes, he plays with great energy and athleticism. Not a starter but a rotation player for sure.
.
November 18th, 2022 at 10:46 AM ^
There were games last year where Jones was atrocious, and Collins would come in and bring a 4 minute spark to the team only to be benched and not return to the game. This happened often. I remember the MSU game when Jones got 2 early fouls and Collins came in and played the majority of the first half and played very well, and then didn't play more than a couple minutes in the 2nd half. Im sure Frankie felt slighted last year and Frankie believes he was better than Jones. I think this was a big part of his decision to insta bounce once they signed Llewellyn. Can you blame him?
November 18th, 2022 at 11:11 AM ^
No, I can't. For whatever reason, I think that there are some players that Juwan does not mesh with well, and I think that he won't play them based on personal preference even if they could bring more to the team. I think it is something we are going to have to get used to.
November 18th, 2022 at 9:27 AM ^
I mean he didn't have to do anything but get out of the way. I think a year of experience in the system is huge. Even if Llew, Dug and him have equal talent, we need to keep the guy with experience. At this point, Dug can't shoot and can't finish at the rim if there is any kind of contest.
November 18th, 2022 at 10:11 AM ^
I miss Trey Burke.
You don’t win Championships without good point guard play.
November 18th, 2022 at 11:32 AM ^
Agree 100%. I remember when I first saw Trey I was thinking we finally have one.
November 18th, 2022 at 11:00 AM ^
Frankie was on ASU's bench with foul trouble through long stretches of tail-kicking by the rest of ASU's team, weaving its way through our porous D last night. He can play some D, but he was on the bench last year, playing 10 minutes a game down the stretch when, by the way, we went to the Sweet 16 for the fourth straight year.
Yes, the guard play has been less than superb, especially last year; might end up saying that at the end of this year. too. But these conversations where you impute that the coaches just don't get it--or fail to take into account all of their efforts to enlist a long list of point guards, just aren't super rigorous. Forty-eight hours ago it looked like we might have three pretty competent guys to work with. Let's see what Sunday brings. If Llewellyn looks like a frightened rabbit in mid-January, get back to me.
November 18th, 2022 at 9:42 AM ^
If so, then he must be getting the game manager idea from Harbaugh.
November 18th, 2022 at 8:09 AM ^
Not only that, but both have the same initials of JH!
November 17th, 2022 at 11:45 PM ^
This deserves a neg bang. We looked horrid on both sides of the ball. We made ASU look like a final four team, but they are not even likely to qualify for the NIT. That was disgusting.
November 17th, 2022 at 11:48 PM ^
Same problems that have plagued Michigan during Juwan Howard’s tenure: the inability to make WIDE open three point shots and defensive lapses that allow opponents to make WIDE open three point shots.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:05 AM ^
Last year UM was worse defensively on outside shooting; they just were. I feel like people forget how bad they were but it was atrocious. In this game UM gave up some open 3s but ASU also hit 4-5 absolutely dumb shots (including off double dribbles and travels) that you can't do anything about. They have some issues at the perimeter but they still look more athletic than last year and my guess is they'll improve more as the season progresses as the new guys get situated.
This team isn't a title contender but I do think people may be reading too much into a game where nothing seemed to be working.
November 17th, 2022 at 11:52 PM ^
Too early to tell, if asu plays this well every night they are good, though I agree they likely aren’t, and we may not be either. But it could be an on night for them and off for us. As someone who averaged 2 points in highschool but had a couple 20+ games, even bad players like me can get hot! Lol! Just not often a full team does. Time well tell if that was M being a not good team, or if tonight was an imperfect concoction.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:07 AM ^
Not many teams are going win when the other team shoots 60% from the field and 58% from 3pt, especially over the whole game. Then you add our 34% FG and 18% from 3pt, and you have a disaster like tonight. All is not lost, as this does not happen often! It’s better to have this game now, than later in the season. ASU just couldn’t miss.
November 17th, 2022 at 11:48 PM ^
Gonna be tough to finish .500 in the B1G with 3 guys (Hunter, Jett, Baker) contributing on offense
November 17th, 2022 at 11:49 PM ^
I would feel much better if someone told me the whole team including the coaching staff minus Martelli was out till 4am getting hammered in NYC. Because that's exactly what it looked like.
November 17th, 2022 at 11:51 PM ^
The whole team and coaching staff INCLUDING Martelli was out til 4am getting hammered in NYC
November 17th, 2022 at 11:55 PM ^
Thanks I needed a good laugh 😃
November 17th, 2022 at 11:51 PM ^
Martelli was in his DeLorean
November 18th, 2022 at 12:00 AM ^
Plot twist, it was ONLY Martelli who was out binge drinking. Shook the team to its core.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:04 AM ^
Biff peer-pressured him
November 17th, 2022 at 11:50 PM ^
Woof, if I’m coach Howard just throw away the tape. ASU was lights out as a full team, honestly can’t take that way from them, D was not good but even when it was good they hit tough off balance shots, and not lucky bounces, straight twine. Is Michigan that bad? No. Are we any good? Hopefully. A couple get right games (if we struggle watch out) and we will see where this ship goes. One thing I will say is ASU ran starters until 2 min left, Collins rightfully had something to prove, and M took exception trapping and getting that late bucket, s small shoving match but both teams chilled out which was good. Juwan looked to take that L like a man and I hope he gave Frankie well deserved props in the handshake line. See where we go from here, but hopefully learn from this and keep improving. I don’t know if our ceiling is super high but I’d like to find out! Go Blue!
November 18th, 2022 at 1:47 AM ^
Exactly. No coach could've saved this game. This is never going to happen again. A player double dribbled in front of the ref dribbled again, then gave the MJ shrug after draining a three. It'll never happen again. GO BLUE
November 18th, 2022 at 6:34 AM ^
Seems this comment is said at least twice a year with Howard's teams. He will continue to need to have unexpected wins in the tourney if fans are to continue to give him the extensive grace he is given. Bradley demoralized EMU after Michigan made them look like MAC Champs. This isn't a one over, I suspect. This is a low on talent in key areas team that has a question mark in Howard.
November 18th, 2022 at 8:14 AM ^
Seems like most threads have doubters. Every year we have reached the sweet 16, at least. I'd like to know one other team with a coach that's billed Mr. March reach that feat. People in here wanted every coach at Michigan fired here in the last 6 years! Even John )&:$ Beilein. So yeah their are lots of obvious doubters inside this blog, most mornings .
November 18th, 2022 at 9:50 AM ^
Howard has not been perfect but ASU was ridiculous last night. Honestly that is not a game that can be duplicated. They shot out of their mind and most of them were contested. It stings if we find ourselves on the bubble because it was a bad loss, but there is very little to take from that game in terms of what to expect going forward.
November 18th, 2022 at 3:27 PM ^
Exactly. I can't believe people are getting excited about it. It's like they forget any other basketball they've seen Juwan coach.
November 18th, 2022 at 3:19 PM ^
EMU player UM like it was their NCAA championship game. Bates probably wanted to go to Michigan and they didn't want him.
ASU guards seemed to take their match up against Llewellyn pereonal because of their teammate who felt he was recruited over to land him.
November 17th, 2022 at 11:50 PM ^
Sometimes you eat the bear something something the bear eats you.
November 17th, 2022 at 11:57 PM ^
I was reminded tonight that I prefer not being eaten by the bear, all things considered.
November 18th, 2022 at 10:15 AM ^
Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you're the bug.
November 17th, 2022 at 11:53 PM ^
This team isn’t very good. Similar to last year on O, but worse on D. Outside shooting is so bad. Likely worst starting back court shooting in the country. Jett and Baker only guys you have any confidence in shooting. Doesn’t look like they practice FT’s. They don’t do well staying in front of their man on D, Jett is really bad on D. Liability. But needs to play because he’s only guy who can score other than Hunter.
McDaniel needs to play more. Llewellyn brings nothing, let Dug try to get better and see where he’s at come Feb. Baker needs to play more at 4, maybe more Williams off bench. Reality is this team is flawed. When we face a team with a big center, who can guard without lots of double teams, this team will really struggle. Hunter Is their only mismatch.
Disappointed in Juwan. I want him to succeed. But his roster construction & players not looking like they are improving, has me concerned on the future of this program while he’s here.
November 17th, 2022 at 11:59 PM ^
Your point about letting Dug develop is what I said about Collins all last year. I never thought the ceiling with jones was higher than Collins, why not develop the young kid let alone lose him. Collins wasn’t killing us today (everyone was lol!) but I’m not sure about Dug long term. Hope I’m wrong.
Our lack of horizontal speed on the perimeter defensively is a glaring issue so far much like it was last year I think.
November 18th, 2022 at 7:35 AM ^
I agree. Even if they find a lineup that kinda works, I just don’t see it. The overall guard play is uneven at best. Having Frankie and Zeb both transfer out did not help but honestly I’m not sure they would make that much of a difference. So far in Howard’s tenure, it’s hard for me to tell what the team identity is supposed to be.
November 18th, 2022 at 10:32 AM ^
once again they lack versatile guards. theyll be a decent team but they need quick, tough guards/wings able to shoot, drive and pressure. not talking about lottery picks here (though thatd be nice), just another 1-2 capable athletes in the pipeline. better roster construction and recruiting needed going forward to improve shooting, spacing and defensive effort
November 17th, 2022 at 11:53 PM ^
My hot take...
Juwan has been a head coach long enough, it's time to help Coach Martelli get a head job back in Philly (doubt he needs much help).
And Howard needs to go hire a defensive coordinator like Beilein did with Donlon and then Yaklich.
Martelli is a great coach and I love having him on the staff. But this has been a terrible defensive team for at least 2 years. A defensive coordinator is just more important than an Assoc. Head Coach to help Juwan manage the program. You have your assistant coaches for the bigs and the guards...go get someone to run the D.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:00 AM ^
I wouldn’t call that a hot take, I think it’s a good take!
November 18th, 2022 at 12:06 AM ^
Just curious, why Martelli and not Eisley? What has Eisley done to warrant staying?
November 18th, 2022 at 8:57 PM ^
Because Eisley is you're 3rd assistant who coaches the guards.
Martelli's role is generally to help a first time head coach be a head coach...especially with Howard having no experience at the college level.
Washington obviously coaches the bigs.
So you have your "position coaches"...go hire your defensive coordinator.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:06 AM ^
A head job in Philly certainly would be better than that game, yes.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:06 AM ^
Juwan was the defensive coordinator for Spo in Miami. He knows how to coach defense. It's just not easy to do when your lineup is mostly comprised of freshmen, new transfers, and a 7 footer who is a huge defensive liability. The two guys who look capable on D are Bufkin and Williams, which makes sense bc they are the two returning players (not including Dickinson, who would be in the NBA if he had any defense or lateral quickness). Eventually all the turnover was going to catch up with us.
November 17th, 2022 at 11:53 PM ^
Don't burn the tape, it's time to be honest with yourselves in that locker room. The season is long, we fans are irrational most of the time. But you've got a bunch of new pieces and you're not playing anything that looks like winning, complementary Michigan basketball. Gotta develop trust in each other, find/develop some gritty/tough play on defense. The offense will work itself out, I think.
November 18th, 2022 at 12:02 AM ^
Fair enough. I posted burn the tape because I didn’t see much there that was coachable. I think you can sit and make them watch the whole thing, or stand in front of the team and burn it and make the same point. I agree with you though that this has to be a character building gsme if we want to be any good.