Harbaugh to be potentially suspended 4 games - Yahoo Sports
Burgers so good, though.
What happens if UM were to straight up ignore the suspension?
It looks like it's negotiated. Would be kind of weird.
So we negotiate. The NCAA accepts 0 or we ignore them entirely. Their choice. They have absolutely no power to do anything.
I presume they could suspend him longer. I guess my point is if the university/Harbaugh are agreeing to this, it would be hard to ignore.
The university may well be taking that stance, but I'm saying they shouldn't. The NCAA can't keep Michigan football out of games because they can't overrule the TV contracts. They NCAA could demand we reduce our scholarships, but with NIL it hardly matters, and either way the university could ignore that too - compliance is all voluntary.
Could the NCAA choose to disqualify Michigan from any games where they are in violation, even if they are played and won in the field against NCAA ruling? This would make Michigan ineligible for a bowl game, thus eliminating them from CFP contention.
Michigan wouldn't be that stupid with potentially their best team in decades.
The bowls could still invite Michigan.
Not if they officially have zero wins. You need six wins to be eligible. The NCAA does not operate bowl games, but it does certify their right to host NCAA teams and ensures they meet minimum standards of governance.
My understanding is the CFP (and the BCS before) are separate entities entirely from the NCAA and the NCAA simply chooses to recognize the CFP champion as the NCAA Champion. So the NCAA can’t force them to not invite Michigan, but they could choose not to recognize a hypothetical Michigan championship.
CFP games are bowl games. Last year Michigan played TCU in the Fiesta Bowl. If they have zero NCAA-recognized wins, they would not be eligible.
(As an aside, the NCAA actually doesn't officially recognize a champion in football. I believe it is the only sport where they do not officially do so.)
If the bowl invites Michigan any way, what NCAA can do? They can't stop the bowl happening.
And the bowl would be free to ignore that fake zero and invite Michigan anyway. The NCAA literally cannot do anything if you keep throwing their letters in the dumpster. No one will choose to go along with them if push comes to shove. The TV companies want their money, the advertisers want their money, the bowl committees and CFP committees want their money, etc.
We are talking about a pretty massive amount of cooperation among several very large and complex entities to protest together against another. Eventually, the NCAA may get phased out, but at the current time, cable networks, conferences, individual teams, bowl committees, bowl games, etc. all banding together to abruptly cut off the NCAA is incredibly unlikely to happen.
Among other reasons, the NCAA owns rights to March Madness, a literal cash cow, that would get incredibly messy and chop up a lot of expected revenue.
The NCAA is a bit dubious, yes, but they still hold some sway, and taking a reckless, juvenile stand against them abruptly would cause some issues and force a lot of your partners in the industry into an incredibly awkward situation, which they probably wouldn't take kindly.
I get that it's fun and easy to dunk on the NCAA these days, but it's still not quite as simple as everyone seems to think.
I agree. Warde and Santa have had to to a dance between:
- NCAA needs to show it still has authority over ever changing rules.
- A coach who has options and they don't want to lose
- Keeping the historic momentum in the program
Job well done. So far.
March Madness, a literal cash cow
Sorry to be that guy but it is not, in fact, a literal bovine.
But CFP games are not “bowl games.” They are playoff games that are held at bowl sites. The Fiesta Bowl had zero say in who played in that game. They didn’t invite Michigan or TCU, the teams and matchups for the CFP are decided entirely by the CFP Committee. As such, the CFP theoretically has the ability to ignore the NCAA and “official wins.”
(As an aside, the NCAA actually doesn't officially recognize a champion in football. I believe it is the only sport where they do not officially do so.)
Well that’s just not true at all. The NCAA website even has a list of their recognized champions. https://www.ncaa.com/news/football/article/college-football-national-championship-history?amp
Football is the only sport where the NCAA doesn’t organize their own tournament to determine a champion, instead choosing to recognize champions in the past based on polls, then the BCS Champion, and now the CFP Champion.
But none of this stuff matters because Michigan isn’t simply going to ignore the suspension or they wouldn’t be negotiating. I’m guessing this is causing major flack between Harbaugh and Manuel, and this is too close to the season.
I don’t think this is a HUGE deal, but I think it is a bigger deal than the front page thinks it is. East Carolina is an actual football team and Rutgers should have beat Michigan at home 2 years ago. We need to be passed this and possible interims sharing notes already.
And Harbaugh doesn’t exactly move on to clear-head status fast, he is a really fiery person who takes slights personally, real or perceived. I think this would be seen by him to be more of a slight from the Michigan AD than the NCAA. I don’t think the suspension has to be a big deal but I think the timing is foreboding. And I now officially hate the Nebraska game.
East Carolina is an actual football team
That’s generous. They went 8-5 last year and lost essentially all of their production. They’re expected to take a huge step back, which is why Michigan is favored by over 30 points right now. Their O/U on wins this season is 5.5-6.5, depending on the source, with most of the projections being on the under.
I am not saying that East Carolina is going to beat Michigan. What I am saying is that the idea that this suspension is simply a “nothing burger” is pretty crazy. From my understanding, this would not simply be that Harbaugh can’t be on the sidelines for 4 games, I don’t think he can have contact with the team during the weeks of those 4 games. Anybody can correct me if I’m wrong, but I think that is the deal. That is not great. The first two games he returns are road games in what are going to be really hostile environments. I don’t think Michigan is going to lose any of the games that he is out, but I do think that the season just got quite a bit more complicated.
That’s an entirely different argument than “East Carolina is an actual football team and Rutgers should have beat Michigan at home 2 years ago.”
Ok fine.
Everybody - “This doesn’t matter, pffftt, we’re FINE It’s just Rutgers.”
Me - “This is pretty bad.”
I think I am closer to reality.
im just posting to see how terribly this cascades in the replies
What the University should do would be to take the NCAA to court. Why does Michigan always play the game with old rules. Instead of feeling good about our school it makes me want to barf from the abject stupidity of self-righteousness in the era of NIL.
Learn from Tennessee.
That's not the Michigan way. It would probably go something like:
The NCAA demanded 4 a game suspension, Michigan would only offer 1 game, so we finally compromised on 6.
(Stolen from Churchill)
Churchill for the Michigan difference. This is one (of many) reasons I come here.
The NCAA accepts 0 or we ignore them entirely. Their choice. They have absolutely no power to do anything.
They can impose bowl bans and take away scholarships, and they can vacate wins.
bowls are not operated by NCAA, and NIL can easily fill the scholarships
they can vacate all the wins they want ... as if anyone cares
as long as NCAA doesn't have power to take money away from an university, it is a paper tiger.
No bowl will take them! You don’t remember OSU going undefeated in Meyer’s first season and them sitting at home because the NCAA banned them from a bowl for 1 season? We all have unfavorable opinions about the NCAA, but they do have some teeth in this situation.
Bowl bans aren't meaningfully enforceable. Bowl committees can invite whoever they want. Ditto scholarships. The university can keep paying for kids' schooling, and NIL has made scholarship limits utterly irrelevant anyway.
The one thing they can do is vacate wins. Oh no. Whatever will we do. I guess OSU beat us 45-23 last year now, huh?
Why are they negotiating literally anything with an empty logo? It only encourages it.
I don't really get this notion that the NCAA is an "empty logo."
They do have power to impose sanctions. They're just inconsistent and hypocritical in going after alleged violations. They let certain schools get off with nothing while dropping the hammer down on others. And they willfully ignore certain aspects of college sports.
But powerless they're not, I think.
This has more teeth to it than what happened to Tennessee after full blown cheating and paying players. Fuck the NCAA in so many ways. Im guessing the puppet masters behind this shit are thinking this will help nudge Harbaugh to the NFL. Luckily for them our fans and university will take it like they always do. Tennessee wont lose a coach for any games, wont sit out any bowls, wont be banned from the playoffs. Honestly Id be ready to go to the NFL. Fuck em. I hope it backfires and puts a fire in Harbaughs belly unknown to mankind.
I negotiate shit with my wife all the time, and then I don't do what I said I would. And my wife has as much power as the NCAA.
Good luck with that.
So, no sex for you then?
Then EMU is screwed. /s
If UM were to straight-up ignore the suspension, then the sanctions get worse. Even programs that have done far worse (Ohio State, Alabama, SMU) have always accepted sanctions when they eventually come out.
NCAA has significantly less power now that it had 20 years ago.
Looks like an acceptable end to this without any long term negative impact.
What happens if UM were to straight up ignore the suspension?
We ask Kay Ivey for advice.
Big moment for Sherrone Moore! Let’s see what he’s got.
He’s implicated too
It's just a ploy to get Moore some HC time.
Better yet, what happens if U-M literally hires this guy as interim head coach during the 4 game suspension?
Back in January I posted that Harbaugh had no plans to serve a suspension. I haven’t talked to anyone recently but this was a point of contention between Harbaugh and Warde. I don’t know if Jim changed his mind or not but Jim is not the type to just change his mind.
If this ends up happening, don’t be surprised if you hear about Jim to the NFL again in the off-season. He was very hung up on Warde making sure he did everything to not have him serve a suspension.
What's the old saying? Fuck around and find out. The NCAA is what it is, usually it's best not to "fuck around" with them, as they are petty and will let you "find out."
Michigan (nor any other school) isn't pulling out of the NCAA either. I'm cynical on them, but the NCAA serves a function.
To quote from a 2012 Spencer Hall article (replace Penn State below with any of the other 1000 NCAA members): "Being a member institution, Penn State leans on the NCAA for one thing: the stamp of amateurism. If the NCAA did not exist, Penn State would not have a ready intermediary between those pointing out that they're running a business under the guise of a non-profit and the money coming from said non-profit."
I'm sure I won't get a straight answer, but honest question.
What did Harbaugh actually do?
4 games seems incredibly harsh.
He had some recruiting violations during COVID-19 restrictions. He was interviewed and lied about it according to the NCAA.
I don't think the NCAA report is public - if it is, I would LOVE to read it.
According to various leaks, the NCAA concluded that Harbaugh committed some recruiting violations during Covid, when there were additional restrictions in place. The only specific one I've heard about is that he supposedly bought cheeseburgers for a couple recruits at the Brown Jug. (I am not making that up.) My understanding is that Michigan also self-reported that they had an analyst on the field during practice. Whatever the violations were, they were "Level II" which is relatively minor.
Supposedly, the NCAA concluded that Harbaugh lied about the recruiting contact (presumably the cheeseburgers), which is Level I and much more serious. As I said at the time the story broke, I'd really like to see the specifics and the evidence.
https://theathletic.com/4063074/2023/01/05/michigan-jim-harbaugh-rules-violations-ncaa/
This is when you hope Warde had a backbone. Even if they don't have much power to ignore the suspension, he could say that the university is unhappy with the outcome and wants regulations applied fairly and universally across all universities and conferences.