CC: How does Alabama having a vacancy affect Michigan?
January 10th, 2024 at 8:34 PM ^
I like Sherrone a lot-like, a super lot. If we are going to hire somebody from the coordinator ranks, by all means make it Moore. However, I’d rather have someone with head coaching experience. The jump from coordinator to head coach is often not successful. My favorite would be Leipold, with fellow Dutchman DeBoer also a great choice.
I didn’t mention Minter because if Harbaugh leaves, I can’t imagine he wouldn’t take Minter with him.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:49 PM ^
Why Moore and not Minter? The defense won us the championship.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:59 PM ^
Bc Minter is likely going to the NFL regardless. It’s just a question of whether he’s going to be working for John or Jim lol.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:00 PM ^
I'm not gonna say you're wrong because I have no idea. But why is there a belief Minter is gone if Harbaugh is gone? Moreover, assuming you are right, isn't that actually pretty damning of Moore?! Harbaugh leaves and plans to take his best team with him...leaves Moore but takes Minter?!
January 10th, 2024 at 10:13 PM ^
Harbaugh leaving would likely mean Moore is taking over. Being a HC at Michigan for a career college coach makes more sense than going to the NFL as an OC as your first taste of the league.
Minter’s defense works in the NFL. There is real and tangible evidence of that. Minter is a hot DC candidate, whether Jim goes to the NFL or not. I’d expect he receives quite a few phone calls in the coming weeks. He also has experience in the league, which makes him a more realistic candidate than Moore.
January 11th, 2024 at 8:58 AM ^
Doesn't need to be damning of Moore at all. Maybe Moore would rather be a head coach in college than a coordinator in the NFL.
Some guys seem more wired to be college coaches than NFL, and vice versa. Minter was a guy in the NFL before and 'seems' more likely to be open to returning to the NFL vs. Moore who has been a college coach his entire career. And honestly the dude just seems like he loves Michigan and coaching kids.
Would you rather be a coordinator in the NFL or the head coach at Michigan? I think Moore would choose the latter 10 times out of 10.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:30 PM ^
For the same reason Moore was chosen to take over those games down the stretch. One assistant is being groomed to take over one day and that's Sherrone.
January 11th, 2024 at 8:50 AM ^
As others have said, because it was Moore who was chosen to act as HC during the suspension. Also, as in business management, the HC role is a different skillset than just coordinating. Doesn't mean a successful coordinator (even one like Minter) will be a good head coach, or vice versa, but it feels as though Moore has already been tagged as Head Coach in waiting due to his leadership and skillset.
That said, I just want the staff to remain mostly intact regardless of whether Harbaugh leaves for the NFL.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:49 PM ^
Besides, if it’s not Harbaugh, it’s Moore, right?
Or Jedd Fisch if Moore needs more seasoning.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:08 PM ^
A bigger concern I would have is the ripple effect moreso than the direct effect. I don’t think losing someone to Bama is really a concern here. But…
Say Bama hires Dan Lanning from Oregon. Does Oregon hire Moore or Minter? Maybe, maybe not. If they hire a head coach from another school, are Moore and Minter candidates for THAT job? Odds are they’re at least in the conversation.
Then of course there’s the potential for position coaches to take a coordinator spot at one of the new openings. Maybe someone wants to give Clink or JayBaugh a shot as a DC. Maybe Hart or Campbell are ready to run an offense somewhere.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:36 PM ^
It doesn't.
Next topic
January 10th, 2024 at 7:45 PM ^
Rhode Island is neither a road nor an island.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:39 PM ^
If Alabama offers me that position I'm turning it down. So it doesn't affect the message board.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:42 PM ^
Accept it and tank them and/or just be dirty as hell (if can be dirtier than they are) and try to get them on probation
January 10th, 2024 at 8:05 PM ^
"... get them on probation." Some things are beyond the realm of possibility.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:57 PM ^
Hookers and blow
January 10th, 2024 at 8:20 PM ^
Ha ha ha. Alabama on probation....good one!
Best case there is the NCAA gets so mad at Alabama that they put Cleveland State on probation.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:14 PM ^
Would you give me a referral? I'm a CEO-type of coach. I'm sure I could get them to at least four wins next year. Maybe five or six!
January 10th, 2024 at 7:40 PM ^
I don’t think it affects us at all. Those players will end up in sec or ohio none of our coaches are on there radar.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:41 PM ^
Looking at the culture we have, if Coach Harbaugh leaves we absolutely should go with an in house option. Our culture is our biggest asset as a program and it takes years to lose that. We need to keep someone who can be a good custodian of that if Coach leaves. So I don't think Bama being open changes anything for us in that regard!
January 10th, 2024 at 7:49 PM ^
The culture is tied directly to Harbaugh. Once he leaves it’s done. The idea that you can sustain it from coach to coach internally is a false. A new one will be created. You can’t remove the most important part of a puzzle and expect it to look the same.
Look a Ryan.Successful, but not. Ohio State’s culture has grown rancid with NIL and me first attitudes. It lacks the substance that made it great under Tressell and Meyer however corrupt they were.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:57 PM ^
If the culture is real then his assistants, especially the ones that have been around for a few years own it just as much as he does. What we've seen from Sherrone Moore emotionally can't be faked. He owns this culture just as much as Harbaugh.
If he's as good a coach as we think then he will have taught his assistants how to lead in his absence whether for 3 games or for good.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:05 PM ^
There is no culture without Harbaugh. Remove him and the culture is changed. There can be no sustaining it once Harbaugh is gone.
We don’t know how good of a coach he is which is why this a really bad idea. Hoke was an outstanding DL coach. Not so great as a HC.
I am not willing to risk another Hoke because Moore may be another Mo or Lloyd.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:30 PM ^
LOL. Repeating "There is no culture without Harbaugh" over and over doesn't make it true.
January 11th, 2024 at 9:38 AM ^
Doesn't seem like a on/off type question. The culture will shift if Harbaugh leaves. But, the shift is likely much smaller if Moore takes over v. someone not currently connected to the program. But, culture is only part of the equation. Can Moore manage the program effectively from in front?
January 10th, 2024 at 11:31 PM ^
Hoke didn’t take over as an assistant successor. You can’t argue don’t hire successor and then use Hoke as an example. Hoke was a ho-hum coach at lower levels with Michigan Man credentials. It would be like hiring Creighton from EMU but if he had Michigan background.
That’s apples and oranges man. If we’re making apples to oranges comparisons, I could argue DeBoer is just the hot new thing like Rich Rod and will bring in his weak 4-2-5 that can’t hold up in Big Ten play.
Moore might not be the guy and you absolutely have to weigh all your options but discounting Moore just because he’s just an assistant without experience? He’s as much part of the culture. Remember who the team credits for motivating them in 2022 in Columbus and rallying them? They credit Moore.
Gotta look at who’s the best option to keep the culture going or keep a culture similar to this going.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:07 PM ^
A great coach can’t just teach someone else to be a great coach. If that was possible, there’d be a lot more great coaches. They can certainly help assistants be better, but greatness comes from within.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:47 PM ^
Agree. I've heard a lot of people talk about shaw at stanford (as a positive to emulate), who presided over an inevitable decline one harbaugh's guys left.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:00 PM ^
Shaw had 6 great years at Stanford after Harbaugh left. I think what happened with Shaw is that he just personally lost the ability to be qt it 24/7. But he had six really strong years before that happened.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:21 PM ^
Like Michigan culture changed so dramatically under Moeller and then Carr? Like Stanford culture changed so dramatically under David Shaw? Remember, Stanford won 8 or more games in Shaw's first 8 seasons as head coach--including 12 in 2015--at a school which is hard to win at.
There are certainly arguments against hiring a coordinator. This is not one of them.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:28 PM ^
Not necessarily. In the corporate world there has long been an emphasis on culture-carriers and getting people in the organization that exemplify and live those values to carry forward the mission and make sure that new additions carry on that in vein. That can come from coaches, players, administrators. It won’t be exactly the same because nobody can be Jim Harbaugh but Jim Harbaugh, just as nobody else could be Bo. But there can be a next-coach-up continuity as we had with Moeller, Carr, Fred Jackson (e.g. same culture, only culture-ier). This could be a durable advantage so long as it doesn’t grow stale, dogmatic, or resistant to making any changes.
January 10th, 2024 at 10:37 PM ^
Thank you for saying this. Harbaugh IS the culture. It doesn’t transfer. How many examples can you name of a program that maintained its culture after the guy who created it left the program in the hands of his disciples? OSU anyone?
January 10th, 2024 at 7:49 PM ^
I think you meant to say - it takes years to BUILD a culture - and, it can be lost in a year or less.
JMHO
January 10th, 2024 at 9:33 PM ^
Respectfully, I am very confident that the culture we have, that Coach Harbaugh has worked to create, can be sustained for years by Coach Moore or Coach Minter if Jim were to leave. I think we have something truly special here that the players and current staff can run with and continue to build. I love Jim and he deserves all the credit for this, but what he has built is bigger than him.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:54 PM ^
When or if Harbaugh goes, our NFL pipeline to Ravens assistants goes too.
January 11th, 2024 at 2:48 PM ^
Possibly! Though we would have a connection with Jim's staff too. I don't think Michigan would ever be completely cut off from a Harbaugh coaching pipeline.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:41 PM ^
I feel like Mike Hart may be the one guy who would suck to lose but might be looking to move on to a true OC role. He's firmly behind Moore now in the pecking order here so depending on what his end goal is he may know he needs to move on for the right opportunity.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:45 PM ^
If Harbaugh goes to the NFL (and takes Minter with him), the culture argument pretty much dictates that Moore goes to HC, Hart/Campbell to Co-OC, Clinkscale to DC, and Newsome to OL, right? So looking for a TEs coach, LBs coach…
January 10th, 2024 at 7:48 PM ^
The big question would be about who calls the offensive plays.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:03 PM ^
Moore cannot be the HC and OC at the same time.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:29 PM ^
@Ghost of Fritz..Ryan Day says hi!
January 10th, 2024 at 9:51 PM ^
The big question would be about who calls the offensive plays.
The running backs. The play is going to them anyway.
January 10th, 2024 at 7:54 PM ^
The culture argument has little factual merit.
What successor coach took over for a highly successful one and maintained that level of success? Shaw? But his record really fell off at the end.I can’t think of anyone else in recent times.
There is a superb HC with connections to the area and who just took a team to the CFP title game. No way can you pick an unproven assistant over him if said coach wants the job.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:32 PM ^
Shaw did incredibly well for years after Harbaugh left. The recent fall off had more to do with Stanford than Shaw.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:58 PM ^
He averaged nearly 11 wins and nearly 3 losses for 6 years, then flamed out majorly. He inherited a top team, rode it out against a week pac-10, then found his level.
January 10th, 2024 at 9:08 PM ^
Disagree that Shaw 'found his level.' I think he simply got burnt out. It happens, He lost at ability to put as much energy into it as HC jobs require. A case of burnout. Not a case of being mediocre.
January 10th, 2024 at 8:55 PM ^
Lincoln Riley at Oklahoma
January 10th, 2024 at 9:05 PM ^
Shaw kept it going for a good while.
Was Gary Moeller that much worse than Bo? What about Carr?
January 10th, 2024 at 9:06 PM ^
Shaw is actually the case that argues in favor of the internal candidate favored by the outgoing Harbaugh. Six very strong years after JH left Stanford. Year 7 was still pretty decent too. Thereafter, Shaw simply lost energy and things went downhill. But that was really so long after JH left that you cannot blame that on Shaw being no good and just riding the coattails. Shaw was very good doe six years on his own.