Cade transfer interview
9-12 minute mark makes the Michigan Dr's look really bad
December 8th, 2022 at 9:51 AM ^
How was the prep different? Were they going to play cover -1?
December 7th, 2022 at 10:39 PM ^
There is one thing to say that UM doctors made a bad decision, and it’s another to suggest they base their decision on what is good for the football team. If this were the case, Eric and Benjamin would have been cleared to play. At least from these cases, I don’t see any evidence that the UM doctors are not considering these players’ health most important. By the way, there is also the case of the DL (Pimpkin?) who was not cleared by UM and went on to play at Kentucky and got hurt immediately.
December 7th, 2022 at 10:46 PM ^
But how do you miss a tear in an x-ray?
I can understand if it was a VA hospital.
December 7th, 2022 at 11:43 PM ^
Well, you’d miss 100% of tears on XRs since you know, or I guess don’t know, soft tissue aren’t even covered by XRs. Lmao.
December 8th, 2022 at 7:22 AM ^
VA hospitals are at least as good, if not better than non-VA hospitals.
https://www.cnas.org/publications/reports/comparing-va-and-non-va-medical-centers
December 7th, 2022 at 11:11 PM ^
I actually identify as a Pimpkin
December 7th, 2022 at 11:22 PM ^
I don't think the staff are being negligent but the idea that guys aren't pushed in one direction or another based on factors beyond the "best" course of treatment is naive. Blake Corum was clearly injured against Illinois and then had a massive brace, was clearly on intense pain killers, and still didn't look particularly good in warmups before trying to play against OSU. He went out there, got tackled, and was pulled almost immediately. My guess is he said he wanted to give it a go and the docs/coaching staff didn't stand in his way. But I'm sure there was a sentiment that he should at least try to play even if the sound medical suggestion likely was not to try. But there's a pressure to compete and win for any player.
Medical staffs can have a position on injuries that others can disagree with; maybe it's because I follow UM sports more than others but they've had a couple of guys who seemingly disagreed with those prognoses and went elsewhere to play. Sometimes it worked out and sometimes it didn't (Matt Falcon kept tearing his ACL in HS and wound up being medially ineligible at WMU after a season). But I am just saying that there's a sentiment around here that anyone disagreeing with the doctors are causing trouble or bad teammates and I am pushing back against that.
Also, if you're talking about Pipkins he went to Texas Tech and played a whole year and then bounced around practice squads and CFL teams. I think he washed out of football but it wasn't like he couldn't play elsewhere. And St-Juste played at Minnesota and is now in the NFL.
December 8th, 2022 at 11:18 AM ^
You have no idea whether the "sound" medical advice was not for Corum to play against OSU. It could very well be that the "sound" medical advice was, playing won't make it worse, so it is a matter of managing the pain and whether you can effectively play through the injury.
I've got no problem if a player transfers to play somewhere else because the player embraces a higher level of risk than UM. However, said player shouldn't throw UM under the bus.
December 7th, 2022 at 10:48 PM ^
I don't think players should be discussing their medical treatment in public if it's a negative take. The docs have no recourse, they're just being hung out to dry. Feels almost like a reverse HIPAA violation. If these players have issues, there are avenues of recourse they can take, i.e. malpractice suits. I don't condone that at all, but sitting for an interview and bad mouthing your medical team feels like a sucker punch.
December 7th, 2022 at 11:27 PM ^
I agree it's not great but we also talk about players' injury and medical conditions in public all the time.
I do agree he shouldn't blame doctors but I can also get him being frustrated if he feels they underplayed an injury. We aren't in those training rooms but from the little I have heard about athletic programs guys are sometimes encouraged to take certain routes in terms of recovery and participation that, in hindsight, might rub them the wrong way.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:50 PM ^
Nah. Is this "his" side of the story? Definitely. But just assuming up front that everyone in the Michigan program places the player's individual well being ahead of what's good for the team is a bit naive, especially from a program that preaches "the team, the team, the team."
It was beneficial for Michigan to have Cade available as a back up, so the team doctors were unlikely to recommend surgery to Cade unless it was absolutely necessary.
Conversely, it was beneficial for Cade to get surgery as early as possible, given that he would be likelier to be ready for spring practice (potentially competing for a starting job at a new school) than if he waited until after the season several months later. A torn patella usually takes about six months to heal, so if he waited to get surgery until January he'd miss out on the ability to compete for a starting job until fall.
That's why he's pissed.
December 7th, 2022 at 10:07 PM ^
I'm a little confused. Or maybe a lot confused.
He wanted to play last year after the MSU game, didn't he? And UM told him he could. And he did. And it was a good time. And he really enjoyed the spring practice while JJ wasn't available.
If he had won the competition from JJ this fall, I wonder what would his take be on the medical staff.
December 7th, 2022 at 10:58 PM ^
Bingo
December 7th, 2022 at 11:04 PM ^
They discovered the torn patella this year, after he aggravated it against Hawaii. I'm saying that the Michigan staff likely encouraged him to wait to get surgery since they'd prefer to have him as a back up.
December 7th, 2022 at 11:27 PM ^
I think we're missing a lot of details so none of us really know who said what or knew what when. But just trying to piece together what I can from Cade's interview:
1) He got an MRI last year after the MSU game. He continued to play as the starter.
2) He lost the job to JJ in the fall of 2022.
3) Then versus UConn, "I did my MCL." That must be the medical term: "did"
4) He looked back at the 2021 MRI and it was revealed to him that he had a torn patellar tendon back in 2021. Why did he not know this before? Did he know this before and forgot? Who showed that to him this time? We don't know the answer to any of those questions. He does seem very disgusted about this now--not as disgusted as Palmer and Allen do, but still. But he played on the torn patella.
5) Then Michigan wanted him to play as a backup even though he "did" his MCL. Well, now he's the backup and not the starer, so that doesn't sound cool to him so this time he gets a second opinion and the LA doctor is "astonished" that his "knee was open." I am taking this to mean the surgery is for the MCL, not the torn patellar tendon.
So you are correct (probably) that surgery is in his best interest so that he can be ready to start at Iowa rather than finish the year as an injured backup and then get surgery. But if he were the starter this year, and UM is telling him he can play, would he have gotten surgery or would he have been fine with the diagnosis?
December 7th, 2022 at 11:42 PM ^
Do people really think that had McNamara not been lost for the season against UConn he wouldn't have played when McCarthy struggled for most of the conference slate? The OSU and Purdue games were better showing but for long stretches of the season he was throwing for under 7 ypa and around 60% completion, numbers that were worse than Cade's last year with arguably a worse receiving group and playing a lot of the better teams on the road. And who knows then what happens - does McCarthy balk at a guy coming in when he's struggling? Nobody knows, and it undoubtedly helped McCarthy that he was the undisputed #1 guy and nobody was going to take his spot even when he struggled.
I think getting hurt and then (seemingly) trying to delay surgery and recover for part of the year before ultimately getting the surgery led to some discord between McNamara and UM. There's nobody to blame here but it shouldn't be shocking to people that someone might disagree with how he was treated at a place.
December 7th, 2022 at 11:49 PM ^
Do people really think that had McNamara not been lost for the season against UConn he wouldn't have played when McCarthy struggled for most of the conference slate?
Uh, yeah, I don't see a fully healthy Cade overtaking the undefeated JJ at any point in the season. Struggling for most of the conference slate? He was not completing any of the deep passes. That was the only issue, and it wasn't hurting us.
Anyway, I won't speak for everyone on the board, but as for myself, my issue is not that Cade sought a second opinion and got surgery. My issue is that he is happy to paint Michigan's doctors as incompetent at best, evil at worst. If it's that bad, sue them. No one questioned why he would transfer. He could have just left for Iowa. At least with All it was a little more confusing, so I can see why he felt compelled to explain it...not that he did explain it.
December 8th, 2022 at 8:41 AM ^
I don’t remember any point in the season that anyone was thinking “hey, let’s put McNamara in.”
wishing we had a healthy, experienced backup yes.
December 8th, 2022 at 11:43 AM ^
Are you serious? Define "long stretches." He didn't have a completion % in a game below 69% until the MSU game, and that was 60%. Then Rutgers and Nebraska were blowouts so I don't think he was getting benched in, or after, those games. That leaves one game, Illinois, which I think everyone will admit was a bad game. But if you think the coaches would pull the trigger on him because of a bad game (that he pulled off in the end, I should add) you must be kidding.
December 8th, 2022 at 1:53 PM ^
I agree completely with this. Completely. You get all my upvotes.
I've said before that I have a bias here, being that Cade is my favorite QB we've had since Denard. But I remember thinking at least once a game during that middle stretch, "I wonder if Harbaugh would give Cade a chance here if he was healthy."
Watch the interview from an outside fan's perspective and I think the conclusion would be drawn that it's way more informative (NIL, transfer protal, medical procedure inconsistencies, open and rational discussion about what decisions go into transferring) than it is throwing a former team under the bus.
Nothing about Cade's history on the football field suggests he'd 1) cave under pressure at the sight of a competition 2) intentionally trash his former team. Shoot, he doesn't even talk bad about his high school experience when the fans were supposedly booing him (as a 14-year old freshman) and calling for the other kid to play.
He's probably more competitive than any of us could imagine (or tolerate). It's probably a big reason he's playing at the level of football he is. Competitive people aren't going to always go quietly, and I think this version of Cade "not going quietly" is pretty respectful and honest.
December 7th, 2022 at 11:18 PM ^
What do you think is more likely: (1) UMHS didn't recommend surgery for Cade because they deemed that the best course of action for his health at the time or (2) UMHS didn't recommend surgery for Cade because they wanted Michigan Football to win more games even though it put Cade's health at risk?
December 7th, 2022 at 9:56 PM ^
I didn't enjoy his fairly sullen take on the QB competition, but it wasn't that bad. Competitive guys often have sour grapes when they get beat out. I thought the guys doing the interview were worse than he was. The reality is that something like 100% of on-lookers thought J J was obviously the better QB. Anyway, good luck in Iowa, Cade.
December 7th, 2022 at 10:10 PM ^
So hiding it from the board is not going to make it go away! Be an adult, even if someone presents you with info or an opinion that is not favorable, you don’t bury it from sight as if it doesn’t exist.
Cade can have how he feels things went down and Michigan can have how they believe things went.
December 8th, 2022 at 2:11 AM ^
The video was also obviously edited. I’m wondering if they cut out things that would’ve made him look even worse.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:22 PM ^
Creating a clickable link really isn't that difficult.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:28 PM ^
It's insane! I almost think all OPs are trolling the board at this point.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:53 PM ^
I haven’t posted an OP in years and plan to paste a non clickable link just for fun.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:23 PM ^
“The docs let me play even though I was hurt” - Cade
”The docs won’t let me play even though I’m not hurt” - All
December 7th, 2022 at 9:31 PM ^
And Corum attempted to play hurt, but was pulled when it was obvious he was too hurt.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:37 PM ^
Not sure corum is a shining example of how good our medical staff is. They said it wasn’t a structure issue and then next thing you know he’s having surgery.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:44 PM ^
If it is a meniscus injury I don't think that would qualify as structural, but that's just my opinion. I am married to an orthapedic surgeon PA and have had a meniscus scope which they recommended a 4-6 week break before athletic activities again. Very very very different, but I pushed it and refereed a 16 boys state soccer final 3.5 weeks post surgery. I definitely wasn't 100%, but then again I am far far away from the quality athlete of someone like Corum.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:51 PM ^
Was it the medical staff who said it wasn't a structural issue? I remember Harbaugh saying that in the postgame press conference after Illinois, but I wasn't sure what he was basing that on. It seems unlikely to me that the medical staff would have had enough information to make that call by the time at which Harbaugh made that claim.
December 7th, 2022 at 10:50 PM ^
But he played 1 and 2 weeks later.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:33 PM ^
Exactly! Medical opinions are opinions. And disgruntled guys are going to disgruntle. Frankly, Cade has seemed like a bit of a whiner ever since he found out he’d have to compete for the job
December 7th, 2022 at 9:41 PM ^
The vast majority of these team trainers have a get the kid back in the field and play hurt. Some can be abusive and even impugn players to coaches.
If UofMs Drs we’re recommending rehab over surgery that would likely be going against that mentality.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:52 PM ^
Double-D,
I like a lot of your comments in this thread but I am confused what you are saying here? Recommending rehab over surgery goes against what mentality?
December 7th, 2022 at 10:35 PM ^
What I mean to say is if during Erick All’s treatment by UofM Docs they were recommending therapy vs surgery, which I think was the scuttle, and Erick wanted a more aggressive surgical approach, it would seem that UofM was recommending a path that was more concerned about his welfare not less concerned.
The spin is being made that UofM is more concerned about the program than the welfare of the kid. The therapy before surgery approach in my eyes is evidence otherwise.
Apologies, I can be less confusing sometimes after a good scotch.
December 8th, 2022 at 7:29 AM ^
I agree with you Double-D. On all accounts!
December 7th, 2022 at 9:23 PM ^
These aren’t uncommon issues in football unfortunately.
Michigan needs to do better.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:34 PM ^
How so? If a player doesn’t know they are injured, is it because the doctors were hiding something or because the pain wasn’t enough to suspect the need for surgery or maybe the player hid the injury because they had a five star recruit breathing down their neck? I’m guessing it was the 2nd or 3rd option above and now it’s conveniently the evil doctors not doing what was best for him? He had a great year last year, but if he was really injured, the drop off from him to JJ last year wouldn’t have been much (especially the second half of the year). I think any pressure that Cade was under was from himself because if he sat out, he would have lost the job to JJ.
December 7th, 2022 at 10:23 PM ^
Good take
December 7th, 2022 at 9:26 PM ^
I'm sure he has great reasons to feel the way he does... I'm sure those "in the building" at Michigan disagree with those reasons.
Personally, I'm just not interested in any of it any longer. Thanks for sharing, but I'm past Cade, he's at Iowa now. I don't dislike the guy, he's not an enemy, he's just not something worth spending time on. I didn't think about Petrus (sp?) or Padilla (sp?) much (don't think I even know how to spell their names correctly) - no need to give any more thought to Cade.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:26 PM ^
Maybe I’m misremembering but I don’t remember Cade “playing decent” in the first game agains Colorado State. Best of luck to you sir, regardless.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:32 PM ^
He was not good
December 7th, 2022 at 9:35 PM ^
It was also interesting how they mentioned that the only game we lost last year was MSU and that “the other guy actually fumbled” but don’t mention that “the other guy” went 13-0 this year.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:39 PM ^
Cade also threw a pick to end the game.
December 7th, 2022 at 10:10 PM ^
I guess they're not going to ever be interested in inviting JJ onto their YouTube channel.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:52 PM ^
9-for-18 for 136 yards and a touchdown
December 7th, 2022 at 11:57 PM ^
And 75 of those yards came on a screen pass to Roman Wilson. Was a very rough performance.
December 7th, 2022 at 9:29 PM ^
QB 2 thinks he's a QB 1.
He is, just not at UM when up against a talent like JJ.
Good luck to QB 2 at Iowa.
The rest is noise.