Papabearblue2

December 8th, 2022 at 1:15 PM ^

I eat out too frequently. It's not uncommon that eating out gets baked into our weekly meal plans. We arent always excited about dinner or our available options. So we had to set some new rules, this doesnt apply to things like "date night" or whatever.

1) If you arent hungry enough to pick a restaurant then you arent hungry enough to bug me to pick a restaurant. - No asking "where do you want to go?" or "What do you want to do for dinner?"

2) When you are hungry enough to pick a restaurant, then you say, "I'm hungry, are you? Id like to go here"

3) If you don't want to go to that particular restaurant you can sit your ass at home or suggest another restaurant.

Joined: 11/24/2018

MGoPoints: 3167

bluebyyou

December 7th, 2022 at 11:06 PM ^

A doctor giving a diagnosis to a player has a first obligation to the player, not the team.  If the doc is so compromised that he would attempt to hide the serious nature of an injury, it should be next man up in the medical tent.  

If both players have legitimate gripes, they should release their medical records.  If in fact the players were compromised, Warde has a big problem on his hands.  Until then, color me a bit of a skeptic.

Joined: 09/07/2009

MGoPoints: 18773

jblaze

December 7th, 2022 at 10:15 PM ^

Reoccurring? Who?

1) All went to a sketchy doctor in a strip mall in FL and from what we know got a surgery that is not recommended for young people (if it were, why not get the surgery at a reputable place). 
 

2) St. Juste - I’ll give that to you

3) Pipkins - he has a genetic heart issue. That’s not something to fuck around with if you are the doctor of a 20 year old kid. 90% chance it’s no biggie, 10% he does. 
 

Anyone I missed?

Joined: 08/29/2008

MGoPoints: 19411

mackbru

December 8th, 2022 at 12:32 AM ^

Doctors are imperfect. But I’m gonna tend to trust the doctors at UM, which is one of the top 5 hospitals in the country, over random doctors elsewhere. Doesn’t mean the UM doctors are right or wrong in one case. But it does mean they are unlikely to be consistently wrong, especially since they tend to work in teams. 
As for those past cases people tend to cite — Pipkens et al — it’s important to note that these doctors were likely weighing risk. Which is to say: Because these players did not end up suffering major injuries later on does not mean the M docs wrongly declined to clear them. M doctors could have said you have a fifty percent chance of suffering a devastating injury, and that risk is too high in our opinion. Whereas a doctor at a football factory might say you’ve got a fifty percent chance you’ll be okay and that’s fine with us!

 

 

 

Joined: 09/01/2009

MGoPoints: 34189

Red is Blue

December 8th, 2022 at 8:10 AM ^

 "You shouldn't play because you're at higher risk" =/= "100% guarantee that your condition will manifest itself in a very ugly way if you continue playing"

So a few isolated examples from the past doesn't tell us whether it was overly conservative advice or whether to players who ignored the advice simply got lucky.

If I advise people not to stand outside holding a lightning rod in a storm, but someone does it anyway and aren't harmed -- that doesn't make it my advice unsound.

 

Joined: 05/13/2010

MGoPoints: 23938

TK

December 7th, 2022 at 9:21 PM ^

He’s making himself look bad. Can’t trust a word this guy says. And he comes off whiny and entitled. Delete this crap, we have enough people looking to give us bad publicity. It’s funny how things really come out from others when you reach the top. 

Joined: 09/23/2014

MGoPoints: 18078

bronxblue

December 7th, 2022 at 9:49 PM ^

Nobody is "looking" to give UM bad publicity; this is a former player saying he had a lingering issue that bothered him for half a year, he suffered a subsequent injury and when they looked at the past MRI there was (apparently) evidence of that earlier injury.  Now, none of us have seen those original MRIs so take his framing with a grain of salt but LOTS of people noted that he seemed tentative to move around and seemed "off" to start the year.  So it does give some credence to perhaps having a lingering issue.

I swear that for all of this fanbase's attempts to seem above the petty whining and conspiracy theories we claim our rivals have the same walls come up the minute someone is critical of Michigan.  Cade McNamara played his ass off at Michigan and helped them win a conference title for the first time in over a decade.  The fact he and All, two guys who got hurt this year and seemingly took issue with how the medical staff handled those situation, are commenting as such shouldn't be dismissed as "hatertots" or whatever, especially in light of guys like Benjamin St-Juste who wasn't medically cleared but is now in the NFL and seemingly doing fine after playing at Minnesota.  Oh, and they claimed that Blake Corum didn't have structural issues with his knee and now he's gotten surgery and is likely to miss the year despite them trying to get him to play.

Nobody is saying UM's medical staff is being nefarious or negligent, only that there's likely some truth to the claims these guys are making and that doesn't mean anyone is at fault only that with 100+ athletes and countless other people involved you can't expect the best interests of everyone to be met.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 172111

tomer

December 7th, 2022 at 10:08 PM ^

Hi. I don't remember anyone talking about Cade seeming tentative to move around. Off his game, yes, but not from an injury perspective. Speculation was that the competition was getting to him, not that he had a bum knee.

Also, 2 things can be true. 1 - he played his ass off and absolutely was an integral part of last year's team and should be remembered for it. 2 - college football is big business, and if the guy behind you is better, he is going to take your spot. 

I don't think what Cade is doing is a poor reflection of his character. I just think he is upset he got pipped and that is coloring how he sees everything in regard to Michigan right now. Hopefully, with more space and maturity he will chill a bit and not look to burn bridges in anger.

Joined: 05/10/2011

MGoPoints: 4075

bronxblue

December 7th, 2022 at 10:15 PM ^

"Off his game" is likely a combination of a lot of things but one could be a lingering injury.  His throws seemed off, sailed a bit, etc. and that could have been due to a knee that didn't quite feel right and trying to compensate.  People absolutely talked about midway through this year with Brad Robbins and his punting and McCarthy season-long struggle to connect downfield with throws.  So yeah, I'm speculating but no any moreso than people assuming he wilted in the face of a younger guy trying to take his job even though all offseason we heard "they're basically neck-and-neck".  

I agree he's likely unhappy about how it ended at UM and he's trying to frame it how he best remembers; in that sense he's not doing anything different than a bunch of fans calling his out for being immature or claiming he's a hater because they don't like him being negative about Michigan.  I do think that two guys who were hurt this year pointing out that maybe the medical staff didn't handle the situation great shouldn't be dismissed out of hand as the complaints of quitters is all I'm pushing back against.  Not claiming you're saying that but there are a number in this thread and elsewhere who are framing this is some moral or competitive failing of McNamara.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 172111

robpollard

December 7th, 2022 at 10:25 PM ^

C'mon man. All the buzz leading into the season was how good Cade looked in camp. It was "neck and neck" and "both QBs played great" etc. Hell, Cade said it himself right before the games started.

"I feel like the level of play I’m playing out is very high right now in terms of where I’ve been in my career,” McNamara said Thursday, his first time talking to the media since fall camp began. “I have gotten much better than I was this time last year or even at the end of the season last year."

https://www.michigandaily.com/sports/football/__trashed-4/

Then the games started & he went out...and didn't play that well, unfortunately. His errors were mental as well as physical. There is very, very little chance, if he had a long-term injury, it didn't affect him all camp and then suddenly jumped up and bit him once he started playing Colorado State.

Joined: 06/03/2009

MGoPoints: 14013

bronxblue

December 7th, 2022 at 11:08 PM ^

Then by this logic do you think that he suddenly forgot how to throw a ball once he started to face the loaded CSU defense?

Again, I'm not saying an injury alone caused issues but it certainly seemed weird that a guy who was purportedly doing well in camp suddenly can't complete a pass against a bad defense.  And to make matters worse he had the bad luck of getting sacked a couple of times because of comically bad pass protection, which was just bad luck but ultimately led to his season ending injury.

Again, I'm clearly in the minority here for seeing this as a guy who was mad with how it ended voicing some displeasure and highlighting, in his mind at least, a situation where his long-term health outlook might not have jived with the plans for the team and his position on it.  And I'm not saying anyone is wrong here, only that I do understand how after a year and a half seeing a lot of people wanting to see you replaced by another guy seemingly regardless of your accomplishments you might be a bit bitter.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 172111

robpollard

December 7th, 2022 at 11:20 PM ^

What is complicated or weird about the most likely outcome -- he cracked under the pressure? It happens all the time! Cade clearly thought he deserved the no 1 spot, just like last year, and not only that was going to be the undisputed leader of the team -- but when he saw the plan that the competition would continue into the non-conf schedule & it truly would be settled on the field, it shook his confidence -- he started bitching about it before the games even started. Is it so shocking to think he put too much pressure on himself & it affected his play?

Stop making excuses for him. It's a competition; he got beat out; it happens. And clearly, UM made the right decision -- UM went 13-0! Sure, Cade can be very disappointed but showing his ass like this is terrible. Just move on (which is what I'm going to do -- don't need to talk about this anymore).

Joined: 06/03/2009

MGoPoints: 14013

BoFan

December 8th, 2022 at 3:49 AM ^

I don’t think TK, Save Us, and others here actually watched the video.  He carried himself with character. 
 

I did watch it and Cade was neither winey or pointing fingers.  He talked about the process of losing the job and the circumstances. He talked about the injuries and when they were discovered.  He did raise some questions in telling his story regarding the medical staff about how Michigan thought he could play given the MRI he had from the previous season. But he didn’t throw any stones or point fingers.

When describing the competition what I heard is that he lost the job because he had a good day and the other guy had a great day. And then as they got to game 4 he was injured and that ended it.  I didn’t hear him say anything negative about it.  He didn’t say he should have been handed the job. He didn’t say he should have had more opportunity to win it. What he did say is that Harbaugh has always been about competing for the job and he is fine with that because that is the way its always been for him and that’s the way football works.
 

And when asked why he didn’t go into the portal earlier in the season when he was rehabbing, when he new he lost the job, and when he knew he would transfer, he said that’s not what a Captain would do.  He separately said that he waited until after the season (The Game) because he didn’t want to be a distraction.  That’s called sacrifice.   

The guy carried himself well and with character in the interview. He’s displayed integrity and character his entire time at Michigan.  

He has1000 times more integrity than any of the uninformed posters in this thread that clearly didn’t watch the video and are criticizing him incorrectly. 

Joined: 03/09/2012

MGoPoints: 20123

JBLPSYCHED

December 8th, 2022 at 8:34 AM ^

I watched the interview and concur 100% with your description and characterization. I also suspect that many/most commenters here didn't watch the video and are assuming that Cade was whining, complaining, backstabbing the Michigan program, etc. He got beat out for the job, he got injured, and he's transferring to another program to try and make the best of a tough situation.

Good for him, that's his right. And he seems like a young man with integrity. He's an athlete, a competitor, and he wants to win. That's how he helped us win the B1G championship last year. I wish him the best.

The subtext of this entire thread, at least to me, is how much leeway major college athletes have in seeking out second medical opinions from non-team affiliated medical professionals. Is that allowed? Is it actively discouraged? If the second opinion diverges from the team medical doctors' opinion then who chooses how to proceed?

Joined: 11/27/2010

MGoPoints: 7441

rc90

December 7th, 2022 at 11:37 PM ^

I can understand bitterness over losing his job. I can also understand questioning the medical staff's diagnosis. But the two arguments contradict one another. If he's hurt, he shouldn't be playing, let alone starting, but he wants it both ways. The result that it's hard to take his statement about the medical staff seriously when he pretty clearly thought he should be the starting QB.

 

Joined: 02/15/2016

MGoPoints: 8534

jblaze

December 7th, 2022 at 10:19 PM ^

Why are you bringing up Corum? He hasn’t said anything negative about his treatment. 
 

Most medical procedures are a matter of opinion. Get a Cardiologist and a Cardiac Surgeon in the same room and they will have many disagreements about treatment (it’s the way they are trained). 
 

Same with PTs and Surgeons. 

Joined: 08/29/2008

MGoPoints: 19411

bronxblue

December 7th, 2022 at 11:13 PM ^

I'm simply pointing out that we heard a framing that made it sound like he could play and then we saw him yet basically twice and it didn't go well and now he has surgery.  Again, probably no issues there but it's a prominent recent injury that seemed to be worse than initially discussed.  That may simply be an optics/comms issue from Harbaugh and the school.

I'm not disagreeing with the fact different specialists will disagree on the best treatment option.  But we have now had two guys on the team leave and say on the way out that they didn't always agree with the treatment options put forth by the staff.  People are acting like it's just two bad apples being pissy on the way out and I just think dismissing them out of hand as such shouldn't be a given.

Joined: 11/22/2008

MGoPoints: 172111