Per Balas, Michigan, media gathering evidence on PIs

Submitted by GoBlueDenver on November 3rd, 2023 at 1:12 PM

Article not paywalled

"Several sources at Michigan and in the media tell TheWolverine.com they are gathering evidence on two private investigators they believe are behind the investigation into U-M’s alleged illegal on-site scouting. The same sources also believe the two are responsible for the media leaks that have kept the story in the news for weeks"

Didn't see this on the board. Haven't posted in many years. Please be gentle
 

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Morto

November 3rd, 2023 at 2:44 PM ^

It would depend on what exactly Day hired them to do. If he hired them to investigate UM and they happened to commit crimes in the process without Day's knowledge or approval, I'd say he's probably fine. He'd have to be remarkably stupid to sign a contract or have any written communications that explicitly included committing crimes.

Joined: 01/26/2016

MGoPoints: 632

XM - Mt 1822

November 3rd, 2023 at 2:50 PM ^

EYB, ever the master linguist.  conspiracy is generally this:  with knowledge of the unlawful purpose, and with the specific intent to join such activity with others, a direct step is taken in the furtherance of the conspiracy by any member of the conspiracy, even if the step taken is something lawful.  conspirators are liable for the crimes committed by others in furtherance of the conspircay, as well as any other crimes that are reasonably foreseeable in that action.  

examples:  we conspire to rob a store.  i buy a gun, lawfully.  that's enough to get us both on the hook for the robbery, even though we never take any further steps.  next:  i send you out with the gun to do the robbery and you kill the clerk.  that's enough to get me on the hook for murder (putting felony-murder rule aside for now) along with you, the trigger man, since murder committed during an armed robbery is pretty foreseeable.  

applying here, actually proving big bro is going to hack a computer (if that's what happened) and that little bro ryan knew would be very difficult, borderline impossible in practical, court room, what actually happens context. 

Joined: 12/21/2011

MGoPoints: 104262

Stringer Bell

November 3rd, 2023 at 1:21 PM ^

It would be embarrassing for Ryan Day, it would force the Big Ten to do something to prevent a culture from being created where schools just investigate each other for dirt to use.  And if the part about Stalions’ spreadsheet being obtained by illegal means is true, then it changes the equation entirely.

Joined: 11/06/2014

MGoPoints: 52918

lhglrkwg

November 3rd, 2023 at 1:32 PM ^

Yes, I think it would change any pressure being put in the Big Ten right now. Youre not going to want a precedent where a school can dig up dirt on a rival and execute some mob justice based on it. It's going to mean the chances anything happens this season go to 0% imo as now it really needs to be investigated if the source for the whole thing is OSU PIs.

Joined: 07/03/2008

MGoPoints: 88022

M-Dog

November 3rd, 2023 at 1:53 PM ^

It also severely violates any so-called sportsmanship policy that the Big Ten might try to use against Michigan.

Can't well hammer Michigan for bad sportsmanship when the "evidence" you have is from a rival that committed an actual crime to get it.

Best for the Big Ten to just put a quick and quiet end to this whole issue right now, and not set a precedent they'll regret for a long time.   

Joined: 07/06/2008

MGoPoints: 257573

FreddieMercuryHayes

November 3rd, 2023 at 2:38 PM ^

Yeah honestly, IF OSU hired the firm, even if no laws were broken, it opens the gate to conferences tearing themselves apart if they hammer UM or Harbaugh.  This would have been a non-issue if they would have just handed the evidence over to the NCAA quietly as is proper.  But someone got greedy and wants to wage a PR ward with the intention of getting Harbaugh out of college NOW.  Not sure you want to set that precedent.

Joined: 12/29/2010

MGoPoints: 40902

Blinkin

November 3rd, 2023 at 1:22 PM ^

PI firms don't just go around investigating CFB programs for funsies.  Who hired them?  Who paid them?  How do we know the methods the PI used for gathering evidence were legal or legitimate?  How do we know they didn't plant evidence?  

It may be a shady conspiracy, or it may be some very "grey area" activity (my personal guess), or it may be all above board.  But if we're all clutching our pearls about iffy activities happening away from the field of play, let's lay it all on the table.  

Joined: 08/17/2022

MGoPoints: 28699

JonathanE

November 3rd, 2023 at 1:36 PM ^

Well let's look at this aspect of it. 

How was the PI firm able to ascertain which football tickets Scalions purchased with his own credit card from the secondary market? The only way would be having access to the ticket sales. For example, let's say that Ohio State sells ticket section 444, Row 11, seat 23. If the person who originally purchased that ticket sold that ticket to say stub hub, does Ohio State get access to who purchased the ticket for resale? A PI firm can't get that information.

Next, I keep hearing there is stadium surveillance video of the people who purchased the tickets holding their cell phones and video recording the sideline all game. How does a PI firm get access to stadium surveillance video? 

In both of those cases, there should be a strong correlation between a university providing that information to a 3rd party PI firm. 

Joined: 09/03/2017

MGoPoints: 2368

Catholepistemiad

November 3rd, 2023 at 2:15 PM ^

I don't think it's been reported that the PI firm brought up that info. The schools involved brought it up after it became a story, that Stalions bought tickets in his name, and that surveillance video showed people in those seats recording the game. The PI firm brought up the videos on a drive and Stalions's schedule and budget.

Joined: 12/28/2022

MGoPoints: 2390

stephenrjking

November 3rd, 2023 at 1:52 PM ^

This scandal has some serious aspects to it but it has also been, mostly, a media-anger-dogpile that is made a bigger deal due to public perception and the attempt to shape public perception.

So it matters for that.

I think it less likely that a crime has been committed, but if one were that would matter.

But if it is, in fact, OSU perpetrating this, it matters for that too.

1. That's a huge escalation in a rivalry that up to this point is characterized by intensity on the field and mutual respect off of it;

2. As others have mentioned, it's a big deal because rivals and competitors going whole hog investigating each other for violations is a major escalation and nobody in college sports will like where that leads. 

3. It matters because if Ryan Day is behind this and he's still not able to win a national title that should be a humiliation that stains his rep as brightly as whatever this scandal does to Harbaugh. 

Joined: 03/15/2012

MGoPoints: 20144031

Stringer Bell

November 3rd, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^

Well at least someone is investigating this.  The national media clearly is uninterested in it and would rather just regurgitate the same info about how many tickets Stalions bought.  

Joined: 11/06/2014

MGoPoints: 52918

antidaily

November 3rd, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^

Unprecedented!

A team has their biggest rival investigated by a PI and pays for information to get said rival punished. This is bigger than Stalions! Pandora's box, to say the least. It's mind-bottling!!

Joined: 05/21/2009

MGoPoints: 7509