Will JJ McCarthy... BECOME SHEA PATTERSON? [Bryan Fuller]

Summer Mailbag Part 2 Talks QBs, Bowl Games, Hot Dogs, and Deep Threats Comment Count

Alex.Drain July 18th, 2023 at 2:53 PM

Yesterday I answered a number of your burning questions for our summer mailbag, but there were enough good questions and enough long answers to break this into two pieces. Today we tackle the remaining questions I liked, starting with good old fashioned QB PARANOIA: 

 

Is there any reason to fear (sorry for being paranoid) JJ regresses like prior QBs in year 2 starting under Harbaugh given recent history? (-yoyo)

This question has been in the back of my head for some time, so let's take a look at the evidence about QB "regression" under Harbaugh. Harbaugh has had the following QBs return for a second year at the helm of the offense during his time at Michigan: Speight 2017, Patterson 2019, McNamara 2022 (Cade doesn't count as a returner for 2021 because he obviously didn't play enough in 2020). That's an extremely short list to begin with. You always have to be careful with concluding that something is a pattern based on the evidence when the sample size of evidence isn't large, but let's break it down based on our three player sample size. 

Speight in 2017 was definitely a case of regression, if we're comparing him to his pre-injury 2016 self. But I'm not sure how much regression there was compared to the post-injury 2016 Speight, who was also not particularly spectacular. He threw two pick sixes against Florida to start 2017, okay, well let me tell you about some interceptions he threw against Ohio State in 2016 (*ducks*). For me the story of Wilton Speight's career was the injury and how much it changed him. Before the '16 Iowa game, Speight had an average passer rating of 158.0 in the 2016 season. From Iowa through the Orange Bowl, his rating was 97.6. In 2017 up until his second injury against Purdue, Speight had an average rating of 121.9. He wasn't the same player he'd been in early 2016, but 2017 looks like a mere extension of late 2016. Does that qualify as "regression" overall? I'm not so sure. 

With Shea, I would say that his 2019 year was worse than 2018, though perhaps not dramatically so. His Y/A and TD/INT ratios were nearly identical, but a lower completion percentage. Shea was a bit worse in '19, but it felt so much worse because we'd been expecting significant improvement. He didn't make a leap, he instead got a little bit worse. Again, perhaps not massive "regression" but definitely not good either. Finally, with Cade in 2022, it's a very small amount of tape to go off of because McNamara was only playing parts of the first couple games before getting injured. He wasn't very good, but it's not like he'd been a worldbeater previously, and again, we're talking about 25 total throws that Cade attempted before injury. Not a whole lot to speak of and I think the best way to phrase this example is "incomplete" due to insufficient evidence. 

So what are we left with? One case of mild regression and two players who were not great, with injury mixed in and who didn't make it out of September of that next season healthy. If anything, this review of the examples should make you more terrified about an injury to JJ than regression, because that is anecdotally what tends to happen more often. But as for "regression" itself, I don't know. People can be as paranoid as they want, but I tend to think that the Shea regression was due to questionable work ethic (the infamous golfing remark) than something fundamentally wrong with the coaching. JJ on the other hand seems dedicated and a hard-worker. He's also younger than Shea, 20 during his returning starter season vs. 22 for Patterson, which perhaps means there's more physical upside to tap into that could mitigate any potential regression. I guess the long way of looking at this is it's a possibility but I wouldn't rate it as a super high one and using the past as a guaranteed roadmap for the future is only so useful with only three examples to go off of. 

[AFTER THE JUMP: deep threats, hot dogs, bowl games, and non-revenue sports]

 

[Patrick Barron]

Does UM develop a legitimate deep WR threat this year? (-GoBlue96)

The first thing that comes to mind with this question is that the problem with Michigan not having a deep threat for much of 2022 wasn't so much the receiving end but the throwing end. You may recall that between the Hawaii game and the Ohio State game, there was once or twice a game that JJ McCarthy would have a receiver open deep (normally Roman Wilson) and then either overthrow, underthrow, or simply just put it a little off the mark. Receivers were having some trouble getting open underneath, but JJ's deep ball was the main culprit in the vertical passing game for a lot of the year, up until the moment it wasn't. 

I can't predict the accuracy of McCarthy's arm in 2023, but I can say that from what we saw at the tail end of the 2022 season, if his accuracy is on-point, a lethal deep passing attack should follow. Roman Wilson's speed is deadly enough that he should be able to get himself open deep down the field at least a couple times per game. The mismatches Colston Loveland can create should be able to open up some opportunities if you have him run a seam route. Perhaps someone like a Darrius Clemons comes through and becomes a leapy deep target. Michigan doesn't figure to have a Braylon on this team, but there will be opportunities for a deep passing attack to materialize from the WR group, if JJ's arm can hold up its end of the bargain. It takes two to tango, but as we saw against OSU and TCU, when JJ's arm is in a groove, there's enough talented personnel to make it happen down the field through the air. 

 

If you were a hot dog, would you eat yourself? (-L'Carpetron Do...) 

Somehow this question got asked several times in the thread, because apparently the ghost of Harry Caray is everywhere on the MGoBoard. I don't think I would eat myself in this hypothetical because I'm honestly not a huge fan of hot dogs. I'll have maybe 1-2 per year at a baseball game and that's just about it. Maybe you should've asked the same question, but with hamburger or chicken tenders as the subject matter instead of hot dogs. Also, you didn't specify if I am starving or not. 

 

[David Wilcomes]

What non-revenue sports are most interesting and exciting for the 23-24 year? Which ones have great fan experiences? (-OuldSod)

Always like to have one non-rev question in the mailbag. In the immediate outlook, a number of the prominent non-revs are in relative rebuilds. Volleyball has a new coach this fall, Erin Virtue, so I don't necessarily expect anything particularly phenomenal from them right away, especially coming off a rather lackluster season. The swimming and diving program will have a new coach (Matt Rowe), too, as will men's tennis. Both men's and women's soccer had subpar seasons in 2022, with the men's team in particular being horrendous. When both teams finished below .500 and outside the NCAA Tournament, that tempers expectations in my mind, though by no means am I a college soccer expert. 

Then you consider that baseball is going through a multi-year rebuild, losing ace Connor O'Halloran to his hometown Toronto Blue Jays in the MLB Draft and many of its veteran hitters to either the portal as grad transfers or to straight-up graduation. Tracy Smith showed some reasons for optimism in year one, recruiting well for down the road and cultivating a few promising freshmen, but it's a several year process. Softball is a similar story, with Bonnie Tholl just in the beginning stages of putting her mark on the program. After missing the NCAAs for the first time in nearly three decades, I don't anticipate that Michigan will be back to being anything particularly threatening right away. 

So that knocks out quite a few teams right there. The easiest answer for most exciting is field hockey, given the track record of the program under Marcia Pankratz. They've made the NCAA Tournament eight straight years, have won either the B1G regular season or tournament crown in four of the last six years, and played in the national championship game only a couple of seasons ago. When I did the fall sports recap, I noted that the team loses some key pieces in the midfield and their goalkeeper, but the the team's top three goalscorers/pointsgetters were all juniors or younger, so there is a core to work with this upcoming season. They will probably be quite good again. So that's my cop-out guess for now, but I'll give a nod to wrestling and women's basketball, which have been consistently competitive programs over the last few years. 

As for the best fan experience, a lot of the non-revenue sports can be really fun to be at but since I didn't talk about it previously, I will tell you that when I was working at WCBN Sports in undergrad, people always enjoyed calling water polo. Michigan typically doesn't host too many matches because their opponents are largely all west coast teams, so the opportunity to see it is limited. But the folks who called water polo always said it was a blast. They are generally all day affairs, multiple matches in a day, but it's a fun sport to watch and apparently was even more fun to call. I never did a water polo match, but I am here to pass along what people said. 

 

[Patrick Barron]

Are we going to beat OSU by 30 or by 40 this year? (-Hotel Putingrad)

Well, 2021 was 42-27. Let's see, that's 15 points. Then in 2022, the score was 45-23. That's 22 points. So if I'm doing my math right and following the pattern, then 2023 should be a 29 point win. Let's go with 51-22. On pace to hit 30+ in 2024 and 40+ in 2025. 

 

Do you believe there is some systemic issue into how Michigan prepares for postseason games, whether it's CFP or bowl game? Bowl games are weird and you often get matched up with teams you hardly ever see, but it's odd that a program with the stature that Michigan has consistently underwhelms and underperforms in the postseason. Do you think it's all a massive coincidence, or is there something larger at work? (-Perkis-Size Me)

I've gotten this question before and answered it from the historical lens (read it here), why Michigan has struggled in bowl games dating back to Bo. The abbreviated version of that answer was A) Bo didn't care a ton about bowls and Michigan was particularly bad in Rose Bowls under Bo, which are pseudo road games for Michigan against the USC/UCLAs they were facing in the 70s and B) Carr lost a lot of bowl games late in his tenure, when the B1G was increasingly weak in the national picture. The Harbaugh angle I chalked up at the time to a multitude of factors, but let's delve in one more time since people are clearly still curious. 

If we go through the Harbaugh bowls, I don't necessarily see a common pattern. After the win against Florida, they had a string of bowl games from 2016-19 where the team went into the game incredibly deflated about their season after a stinging loss to Ohio State. In 2018, that included having to play without Karan Higdon, Rashan Gary, and Devin Bush, for example. The 2016 and 2022 bowl losses are similar to me in that they were games Michigan probably should've won against opponents they were better than, but where a combination of high leverage mistakes and random misfortune combined to do Michigan in. The TCU loss has been well litigated on this site recently, so everyone knows the rundown, and for those who have forgotten that Orange Bowl against FSU, Michigan completely suffocated the 'Noles on defense except for giving up one backbreaking big play every so often that was just enough to put FSU over the top. 

2019 and 2021 I pair together in that the opponent was way better than Michigan. Alabama was better than the Wolverines and managed to convince several future NFL stars to play and Georgia 2021... yeah, no need to explain that one. So we have two Michigan losses where they were better and a multitude of gaffes and bad luck did them in and then two Michigan losses were they were the worse team by a considerable margin and it was the curse of the matchup.

Remember this game? [Marc-Gregor Campredon]

In between we have that bizarre 2017 Outback Bowl in the rainy, muddy mess against South Carolina and the 2018 Peach Bowl with Florida. The thought linking those two in my mind is "who cares?". The Florida one in particular it felt like the team mailed it in, key players sitting out, not a ton of fire from the players playing in the game. It felt performative, Michigan had to be there but after the stunning demolition in Columbus, it didn't feel like anyone's heart was in that game. And South Carolina had similar vibes, but to a lesser extent. Perhaps more pertinent in that one was playing a broken Brandon Peters at QB. 

Overall, maybe the best way to sum up the Harbaugh bowl record is a collection of somewhat related small patterns (being overmatched, making a lot of high leverage errors, being put in situations where there was little motivation to concentrate) that don't have any broad relation to each other in the macro other than "Michigan loses". I'm a general believer that when bad things just keep happening, at some point it's on the coach, even if they're not related, but even if we just take recency bias and look at the TCU Fiesta Bowl... did Jim Harbaugh tell JJ McCarthy to throw two pick sixes? Or the hand-off to be fumbled at the goal line? The coaching staff made some tactical mistake but players made errors they didn't make all season. I'm not sure what to say there. There's no narrative that links every game together and allows us to pin it on a singular culprit. It unfortunately seems more complicated than that. 

 

When will Alex make an appearance on the MGORoundtable? (-nmumike)

When you can convince a 24-year-old with a remote job in sports and no children who gets largely free rein over what time of day he wants to work to wake up at 9:00 am.

 

[Bryan Fuller]

What does an offense that fully utilizes the talents of Blake Corum & Donovan Edwards look like? (-Chaco)

The short answer is playing with two RBs more often. Scott Bell's piece in HTTV talks about this and is definitely worth a read, so I'll keep my answer brief. Michigan didn't have many snaps on offense last season where both Corum and Edwards were on the field together. I'd like to see that change this season and it's probably the key to optimizing an offense with both RBs. Edwards is so dangerous as a receiver that you can line him up all over while you have Corum in the backfield. And Corum could theoretically run a route too, with that threat emboldened if you put some snaps of him catching screens or running wheel routes on tape. I have to imagine he'd want to give that a shot given how the key to surviving as an RB in the NFL these days is adding a receiving component to your game. 

So, playing with both Corum and Edwards on the field together is the key to me. Whether it's putting one in the slot and one in the backfield, or both in the backfield, keep the defense guessing and utilize both as weapons. I'd also toss in that part of this equation too is making sure both are healthy and fresh. Don't run them into the ground, especially on a team as good as Michigan and with players like CJ Stokes, Benjamin Hall, and Cole Cabana on the roster. Try to spread carries evenly between Edwards and Corum to keep both happy, but give them both the hook when the game is out of reach. Lessen the load so that they are ready to roll when the season gets important. That stretch from PSU to the postseason will determine the year and as they say, the greatest skill is availability. If Michigan plans on playing 15 games, an offense that fully utilizes the talents of Corum and Edwards is the offense that has both Corum and Edwards available for games 12-15. 

 

[Bryan Fuller]

Where do you think we still need to improve in the recruiting battles across the country? (-nmumike)

I don't think Michigan's recruiting "issues" (landing elite 5* guys) have anything to do with geography per se, so I'll answer this by naming a region in the country that the Wolverines don't seem to get many guys from: Texas. The south as a whole isn't really Michigan's strong area, but in the Harbaugh era they've gotten some kids out of FL, they had a couple good cycles recently in TN, obviously are now raiding Providence Day in NC, even Karmello English and Deuce Spurlock were AL + Amorion Walker in LA. But Texas, despite how populous of a state it is, hasn't produced much for Michigan. 

They've generally gotten about one kid per year from there and the guys they've gotten haven't been terribly impactful. Michigan got the Greens and Mustapha Muhammad out of TX in 2018, no one from 2019-2020, Ike Iwunnah and Tavierre Dunlap in 2021, Alex Orji in 2022, and Enow Etta in 2023. As of right now, Michigan has Blake Frazier in the class for 2024 from Texas (and he's a legacy), but nothing beyond that. Texas will never be an easy state for Michigan to crack given how far away they are and how many programs are recruiting that state, but there are also so many HS football players that it feels like there's a window for Michigan to perhaps do a bit better there than they've been doing. 

 

Which one of the mgoblog staff is most different than their on-air/on-podcast persona? (-Swayze Howell Sheen)

It's definitely Brian overall. David, Seth, and Craig are exactly the same on-air as they are in real life. Mannerisms, takes, volume level, all that. Same product. I'm generally a bit more reserved and on-message when I go on the MGoPodcast than I am in real life, but my persona on the HockeyCast is pretty much the same as real life. But Brian is definitely a much quieter person in real life than he is on the podcasts. On the podcast, Brian is the center of attention and a rather vocal character, but on the contrary, in everyday life I've been in many a rooms with Brian where he's more in the background and relaxed. Put another way, I've never heard him be as loud in real life as he is on any single hot takes segment. 

 

Every year there are assumptions on how the team will perform/ how the season will go among the general fan base that turns out to be completely wrong… what is a perceived strength most likely to turn into a disappointment? What weakness or shortcoming is most likely to positively surprise? (-Harbaugeddon) 

Another interesting question and one I hadn't necessarily thought of. For the strength turning into a weakness, my first thought is that it likely revolves around an injury occurring to a player of consequence, so I will hone in on areas of the team that feel thin. The obvious one is QB, but that's too easy so let's try a different spot. I'm going to go with safety. Michigan has two quality starters in Makari Paige and Rod Moore, but what happens if one of those two players gets injured? Next up is Quinten Johnson, who has made too many high leverage mistakes on defense and special teams to feel great about and then after that you're digging into the underclassmen. I liked Keon Sabb and Zeke Berry as recruits, but are they ready for showtime? There's a big mental component to playing safety + situational awareness and first time starters can be bumpy. There's definitely a scenario where injuries to the starting safeties bring some backups to the forefront who have prominent question marks in their profile, which could render the position a surprise weakness. 

As for the weakness into a strength, this one is difficult on a team that does not seem to have too many weaknesses. The only two are (maybe) cornerback and specialist, but I think I'll go with the latter. It's always tough to project college kickers but James Turner has put together two very strong seasons at Louisville, in between a not very good one. If he replicates one of those good seasons this fall, that's a legitimate strength, as Seth's data in the Hello post showed. And Tommy Doman was a 6-star(!) punter once upon a time. You can totally sell me on him being awesome. I still don't think a Moody/Robbins repeat is plausible but if Turner and Doman both hit reasonable ceilings, Michigan's specialists could be a legit strength of the team. 

Comments

zlionsfan

July 18th, 2023 at 3:12 PM ^

Alex, thanks for doing these, these are really good. 

With respect to non-revenue fan experience, I can't speak to Cliff Keen Arena specifically since I've never been there, but I would recommend Big Sixteen volleyball in general. I've had season tickets to Purdue volleyball for 11 years now and enjoyed every season - Holloway is a different environment but is similar in size and probably in how it works, with a combination of reserved and GA seating. No seat is very far from the action, and in fact you may want to try to sit up a few rows, since a) sitting at floor level can be a poor choice if you are shorter than a standing volleyball player and b) you will want to be paying very close attention during warmups anyway, but balls can be hit pretty hard out of play during live action also, and being up a little farther is going to work in your favor. 

In any event, even without the LA teams, the conference is deep enough that you'll get at least a decent opponent every time out, and if you don't then you should get to see just about every UM player who's not redshirting (VB uses the old-school rule where you can't play in a regular-season match and be redshirted that season). Adding USC and UCLA will just make the conference stronger, although it does mean you will see even less of the conference every year since we can't really expand our conference schedule or the overall schedule. Finally, the price is great for the value you get (again I'm assuming here; it's likely that if you're a student you may get in free or at least cheaper, but even general public tickets are priced nicely). If you start going during a rebuilding year - there may be several of those since this is the kind of conference where you can be #25 in the country and #8 in the conference - then when things start improving you might end up with really nice seats for the good times.

oriental andrew

July 18th, 2023 at 11:16 PM ^

Love me some volleyball. Always go watch Michigan when they play @ Northwestern. It's a cheap ticket, general admission, and pretty good fan engagement. Have also watched vball in Huff Hall at UIUC. Not a great facility, but strong crowd. I'm sure it's not quite PSU or NU or even Purdue, Wisco, and Minny these days, but very fun nonetheless. 

mGrowOld

July 18th, 2023 at 3:15 PM ^

My theory on our deep passing game woes is that our QBs are coached and coached hard to never miss a throw short if they see even a hint of coverage.  The one constant among all Harbaugh QBs has been when they miss the deep ball the ALWAYS miss it long.  Meaning either our WR catches it or nobody does taking away the possibility of an int.

I think it was Ronnie Bell's scouting report that showed just how few 50-50 balls he was given a shot at and I dont think that's a coincidence.  Our HC, God love him, is extremely risk adverse so we'd rather miss a few deep shots than have one intercepted.  And if you go back and watch the highlights when we do hit a deep pass by lobbing one in it's seemingly always when there's no DB anywhere near the WR to make a play.

FWIW I'm not saying Jim's wrong here.  If we dont throw two pick sixes in the Fiesta Bowl my guess is we like the outcome of that game a lot better.

ThisGuyFawkes

July 18th, 2023 at 4:50 PM ^

Agree with everything here, would just add that I think Harbaugh and the offense need to evolve --  and will. 

Valuing the football is paramount, but if you're talking about a 3rd and X arm-punt up to CJ or Roman or Nico (in a way sweeter alternate universe) - that is not the same as trying to jam a slant into tight coverage. Of course pick-sixes can happen on long balls as well, but the likelihood goes down and the change in momentum / game situation or expected points (if I'm using the analytical nerd term correctly) is generally much smaller from those big downfield shots. Just as JH has shown willingness to adapt his approach in spreading the field, going for it on 4th down - I'm hopeful that long balls will be increasingly featured. 

Eng1980

July 19th, 2023 at 7:15 AM ^

Agree 100%.  I would add, Jim doesn't throw the ball much in the first quarter as he is feeling out the other team's rush defense (and passes are short and/or involve TEs) and he doesn't throw much in the second half if he has the lead, so Michigan doesn't throw much.  

It appears that Harbaugh saves a number of passing formations and routes for big games.  Most passing routes in the regular season were plain vanilla.

 

JBLPSYCHED

July 18th, 2023 at 3:39 PM ^

As a lifelong Michigan fan, dating back to watching the 1972 Rose Bowl loss to Stanford, I agree that Michigan's terrible bowl game record over the past 50 years is complicated. Even if no pattern emerges from the Harbaugh years I think the common denominator is that bowl games have been under-emphasized as team goals.

As Alex pointed out this was true under Bo, who openly spoke of Big 10 championships rather than bowl wins or national championships, and it seems true under Harbaugh as well. We rarely seem to come out firing in bowl games with similar energy to the way we finished the season (except when we lost to OSU in which case we often showed up looking similar to the way we finished the regular season).

Last year's game against TCU seems like the ultimate example despite the high variability negative plays. There's a strong impression that we overlooked TCU and basically assumed we'd beat them after the way we demolished OSU. Obviously that makes no sense, especially after getting killed by UGA in the CFP in '21. It's the playoffs, fergodsakes, why take anyone for granted?

Everything is in front of us this year and I certainly hope that the rumors about us using time at the end of practice to 'focus on Georgia' are true. IMHO we need to have bowl/CFP wins on our agenda from the beginning of the season onward if we're going to win more of those games.

AC1997

July 18th, 2023 at 5:34 PM ^

I would add to this that historically under Bo, Lloyd, and even to an extent Harbaugh we've won games though execution rather than purely with talent.  When you get to a bowl game, theoretically you're facing a team with a lot of talent and a lot of time to scout.  We haven't often seen Michigan historically break tendency in a bowl game, perhaps making it more easy to scout and with talent more equal it makes winning harder.  Add in the fact that B10 schools are playing a lot of bowl games at sites that aren't necessarily "neutral" and that adds to the risk.  

As for the TCU game specifically, I think they broke a few more tendencies than we expected and we thought we could out-execute their goofy 3-3-5 defense and it didn't work.  Thus we put more pressure on JJ and the passing game....which was high risk/reward.  It is true that the players make some back-breaking mistakes that clearly weren't on the coaches....but you could argue that at least one Pick-6 was on a bad playcall that we shouldn't have made, that giving Mullings the ball as a mooseback was a bad idea, or that asking Johnson to play so much safety lead to his coverage bust.  So it is clearly a mix.  TCU was a good team, stakes were high, luck was not on our side, players and coaches made critical mistakes.

DoubleB

July 18th, 2023 at 6:32 PM ^

There is one common denominator--an association with Bo Schembechler, either as a coach or a player.

I've been rewatching Rose Bowls on Youtube the past few months and Michigan had more talent in most of those games (almost all the games in the 70s, excepting maybe USC in the 1979 game) and just didn't get it done.

And a lot of the excuses of not caring seem like revisionist history after all the bowl losses. When he won it in 1981, the players carried him off the field.

jmblue

July 18th, 2023 at 7:57 PM ^

The Bo connection doesn't fully explain it though.  Gary Moeller went 4-1 in bowls, and Carr started out 5-3 before finishing 1-4.   Meanwhile, RR and Hoke, who had no direct connection to Bo, went 1-3.

Our bowl struggles basically come down to 1) the 1970s and 2) from 2003 onward.  In between these two, from 1980-2002, we went 14-9.  Bo himself improved from 0-7 in the '70s to 5-5 in the '80s.

ShadowStorm33

July 19th, 2023 at 3:23 AM ^

Yeah, but as Alex pointed out, our performance in Rose Bowls didn't improve that much (0-5 in the 70s, 2-3 in the 80s). The big difference is that we were 0-2 in non-Rose Bowls in the 70s, and 3-2 in the 80s, as for much of the 70s the Rose Bowl was the only Bowl a B1G team could go to (Rose Bowl or bust).

RobGoBlue

July 18th, 2023 at 11:51 PM ^

It's interesting, I wouldn't even consider trading the OSU win for the TCU win (assuming a path where M loses to the Buckeyes but recovers to get the 4 seed.)

That Big 10 title and beating OSU still means everything to me. It's probably also why the 1997 "split" title has never made an ounce of difference to me. They were undefeated national champions, who cares if a few coaches didn't think so?

This outlook likely needs to evolve if I'm going to continue enjoying college football beyond this coming season, but I totally get it.

ShadowStorm33

July 19th, 2023 at 3:30 AM ^

It's interesting, I wouldn't even consider trading the OSU win for the TCU win (assuming a path where M loses to the Buckeyes but recovers to get the 4 seed.)

That's a little different though, since TCU was only the semifinal (and I'm pretty confident that we still would have lost to UGA in the final, had we made it).

Hockey has actually been nearly identical to football the past two years, upsetting Minnesota to win the BTT each year and losing in the Frozen Four semis. In a similar vein, I wouldn't trade those BTT championships for FF semifinal wins and championship game losses. But would I trade them for national championships (i.e. guaranteed to win the title game)? Hockey absolutely, and football probably as well.

Vasav

July 19th, 2023 at 3:06 PM ^

Honestly, I wouldn't trade an OSU win for a natty. If OSU won it this year, I think M should've claimed a share of the natty - for beating OSU by 3 TDs and change in their house. If M had backed in and won it, while not winning the Big Ten, it wouldn't have felt legitimate 

It'd be different if OSU was some sorry ass team that won that game but lost 2-3 others, but that game in the Shoe felt bigger than anything else we played for. It was our biggest win since...heck, 2000? 1997? Naw, wouldnt trade it for a natty.

Koop

July 19th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^

Historically and currently, there needs to be something that makes the game worth it in order to focus both the players' and staff's attention. Bowl games are expositions--paid vacations. For the most part, historically, Michigan's season was over, both in terms of schedule and attention, after The Game.

IMHO, the "what's the point" factor increased dramatically with the advent of the CFP. It made it that much clearer that every other bowl game was just for "fun," and, historically, Michigan football doesn't do "fun." It certainly doesn't do "fun" when one of its best draft prospects is writhing in pain on the turf of the Orange Bowl while one of its other best prospects is watching on TV with horror. I was there for that one. Message received. The non-CFP bowl games that followed that were barely walk-throughs. Sure, beating a Nick Saban Alabama or the like would be a nice feather in the cap, but once a game like that started creeping out of reach, no one could blame the players for making "business decisions" regarding the intensity they brought to the game. 

Also IMHO, when it comes to Michigan's CFP performance, we're still looking at too small a sample size to judge. Michigan was outclassed against Georgia and the game got away. Michigan shot itself in the foot in both game plan and execution against TCU and still had a shot to win. In post-season games that matter, that's a positive trend line. I don't think there's a ton of useful data from the non-CFP bowl history--except to say, don't count on Michigan having a stellar track record in future non-playoff bowls.

mi93

July 18th, 2023 at 3:55 PM ^

Great stuff -- the Qs and the As.  Well done, blogosphere.

The FSU bowl game hurt because Cook ran through a Peppers sized hole -- if he plays, or Jake plays the entire game -- I think M wins.  Maybe comfortably.  Oh, well.

And for the love of Mike (Barrett), can we please be 100% healthy for games 10-15.

ShadowStorm33

July 19th, 2023 at 3:36 AM ^

We still should have won that game. We took the lead late, and on the ensuing kickoff, the normally excellent Jordan Glasgow missed the tackle, leading to a 66 yard return. If FSU starts at their ~20-30 yard line, instead of our 34 yard line (i.e. pretty much already in FG position to tie the game), I'm confident we hold on for the win.

Koop

July 19th, 2023 at 10:36 AM ^

I was there for that one. Michigan definitely missed Peppers. Losing Butt was brutal.

And Scout fell over during the pregame. My kids were despondent and wanted to know that the horse was okay. The FSU fans around us were puzzled but ultimately gracious in letting us know that the horse wasn't hurt.

lhglrkwg

July 18th, 2023 at 4:04 PM ^

Put another way, I've never heard him be as loud in real life as he is on any single hot takes segment. 

I can hear 'SEEETTTHHHH!' in my head right now

On using 2 RBs, I feel like you try to put the linebackers in hell like NFL teams do right now with forcing LBs to defend WR-TE dudes and also the run. I wonder if Michigan couldnt use 21 or 22 personnel and threaten them both as receivers out of it. That forces teams to want to commit to stopping the run, but if you motion one or both of them out, then suddenly you've got linebackers trying to cover Edwards and Corum in space. And then who is covering Loveland?

Now do I think Michigan will do this? No. They will run pretty vanilla stuff except vs OSU and PSU if they can get away with it, but it would be cool if they did it other times too

njvictor

July 18th, 2023 at 4:14 PM ^

I can't say that JJ possibly regressing hasn't crossed my mind, but there are a few things that make me confident he won't:

  • His age. Was a true sophomore last year and is just hitting his stride at the college level
  • Kirk Campbell seems to be a great QB coach, especially getting JJ's fundamentals right and helping him grow
  • JJ was injured last off season and this season he is not

AC1997

July 18th, 2023 at 5:39 PM ^

I would also add that my concerns with Harbaugh QBs were less about 2nd year regression and more about a failure to develop a good QB in the first place.  Rudock had a half-year of success.  Shea was erratic.  Speight had a "decent" year.  Milton, McCaffrey, Peters were bad.  Cade had a very, very good game manager year.  JJ seems to have defied those trends to be a legit GOOD quarterback and frankly was just "pretty good" for most of last year.  His deep ball didn't connect until late in the year, he didn't use his legs very often, and he wasn't asked to make a lot of throws to win games.  If anything I think we will see improvement, not regression. 

Where I would have been more worried is if the offense around him was losing a lot of talent.  So if you want a reason for concern you could potentially argue that losing Bell and Olu as two critical leaders could skew things on the offense.  Bell was a safety valve on so many drives in ways that CJ or Wilson haven't been.  The extra yards Bell would get or tough catches in traffic are perhaps a hidden reason that JJ and the offense could struggle at times, as would be some mental errors from the OL with a new center.  

Grampy

July 18th, 2023 at 10:29 PM ^

What missing in the JJ regression discussion is the fact that much of his post injury rehab was focused on changing his throwing mechanics, e.g. less back foot throws, shortening his wind-up, and generally trying to reduce the strain on his shoulder while quickening his release. He will have another year of working on his mechanics under his belt. I would say the odds are better that he’s gonna show significant improvement than regression. 

Carpetbagger

July 18th, 2023 at 4:19 PM ^

For perceived weakness that turns into a strength I recommend you re-read prior year Freshman Recruiting roundups. We talk about the incoming freshman for 6 months just to see them get their 4 games in and largely do nothing (with 1 or 2 exceptions). The guys who are really going to make a difference (Sophomores/Juniors) are completely ignored.

L'Carpetron Do…

July 18th, 2023 at 4:35 PM ^

I saw someone else recently mention the Alabama bowl in the same way: that Michigan was entirely overmatched.  But I thought Michigan actually did really well against them, all things considered. And if I recall correctly, Michigan ran the ball on them and had a lead as late as midway through the 3rd quarter (before the wheels fell off in very-pre-pandemic Michigan style). But, I oddly consider it one of Harbaugh's best coaching performances. 

Alabama was definitely a much better team though; I'm certainly not arguing that. But, I remember thinking at the time that Michigan could have won that game. 

[EDIT: wasn't quite exactly midway through the 3rd but Michigan led at the half and AL took the lead a few minutes in. Looks like M was within a score for most of the 2nd half. And this was when they had absolutely no comeback ability or end-of-game competency so being down 5 or 12 might as well have been 100.  AL got a true garbage time TD to make it 35-16. Michigan scored 0 second half points).

Vasav

July 18th, 2023 at 5:05 PM ^

Yea I agree - the scoreboard doesn't tell the story of that game. We led at the half, they had a 40-yd TD to start the 3rd, and then both offenses were bottled up. M went on a long drive that started in our 5 and fizzled at the Bama 40. We punted, and they had a bunch of big plays with like a 60yd pass to set up a TD. Both teams traded punts, Alabama ran up the clock and then instead of kneeling ran up the score.

They were better, they won the game - but this wasn't a blowout. This was more 42-27 than 45-23.

Ali G Bomaye

July 18th, 2023 at 4:36 PM ^

Re: Speight's regression from 2016 to 2017, it's also worth noting that in 2016, he was throwing to seniors Amara Darboh, Jehu Chesson, and Jake Butt, whereas in 2017 his top WR was true freshman DPJ and his top TE was sophomore Sean McKeon. Freshman WRs almost always suck, so he had a notable downgrade in his quality of targets.

OwenGoBlue

July 19th, 2023 at 11:59 AM ^

Speight also went from a mostly veteran 2016 line to an extremely young one in 2017. Those guys got good in 2018/19 but weren’t there yet. 

Shea’s mild regression went alongside a big change in scheme to first year Gattis of Army game fame. 

I’m not worried about this being a thing. 
 

BornInA2

July 18th, 2023 at 5:00 PM ^

The image has me wondering...wouldn't field hockey be more interesting (and healthy for the players) if it didn't use a stick that was designed a billion years ago when the average human female was 4'-6"?

Let's send them out with some carbon fiber tools designed for modern humans and see what happens.

Vasav

July 18th, 2023 at 5:13 PM ^

I think field hockey used to be pretty big in South Asia (India and Pakistan used to dominate at the olympics), so I wonder if internationally there's a whole bunch of field hockey purists in the way baseball has, who think using carbon sticks is akin to having a designated goal hitter or something.