Why Have NCAA Rivals Historically Not Snitched On Eachother?
While the media absurdity and rival fan OUTRAGE! around UM's "sign stealing scandal" reaches crescendo, I started wondering why historically there aren't more leaks, snitching and accusations from one program against another - at least not insofar as the allegations go public and reach the level of NCAA (yes, corrupt, feckless organization) investigation. I will list a few of my theories.
1) Ryan Day: He is an absolute unhinged bitch. I'm not sure college football ever had such a weak character at the helm, (bad coaches yes - many; But soft, petty and weak - can't think of any) but It is clear that this man can not handle the pressures of being the head coach at one of the top 5 most prominent programs in CFB. He literally cries after every OSU loss (Clemson - sign stealing, UGA - video taping practice, UM - "extensive network") as if he were a fan on a message board, not the steward of a billion dollar business. The last 2 losses to UM have broken this man who can not block out the outside noise. He's a talented offensive coordinator who seems to lack the spine for the roles and responsibilities he has been handed. "Born on 3rd" becomes more apparently accurate every day that passes.
2) Circumstances: Yes, every program, specifically major football factory programs are committing infractions every day to get an edge. However, and specifically for this reason, most historically, will not point a finger at their rival as they know their own house is not clean. Stalions operation was unique enough - and had the ability to gain traction in the media - that it was worth it for a coward like Day, and clickbait media, to run with it. Yelling about paying recruits never went anywhere, historically, as all the big programs seemed to be bagging. The FBI investigated Kansas and Tennessee and had both, dead to rights, and nothing serious was handed down to either. Now with NIL, nobody cares, even if you are breaking some of the technicalities around the rules - like paying recruits for visits. Academic scandals, steroid use, and even criminal activity was so widespread that it just became noise. See Urban's Florida teams for exhibit A.
Every program is attempting to "steal signs" as well - but here's the rub - the public is very much unaware of this practice, which is seemingly specific to CFB where player headsets are still not utilized for play calling. This left a perfect storm for one desperate enough (to possibly save his job) to run a hit job on UM and Harbaugh. The novelty of "sign stealing" allows for the sanctimonious and hypocritical to grandstand - "Harbaugh is a cheater and his actions challenge the very integrity of the game!" - in an arena where steroids, buying players, not playing school, etc are already an afterthought.
3) NCAA and Harbaugh's Extension: Not a conspiracy guy so won't dig in too deep here, but the timing of the release of this story right when Harbaugh's extension was apparently being negotiated is suspect. It is also no secret that Jim has rubbed people both at the NCAA (satellite camps, speaking on rev share, burger gate response, etc, etc) and the university (Warde) the wrong way. The NCAA choosing to push this investigation and the apparent PR campaign from Day/Thamel is quite suspect to say the least. If Stalions operation was indeed known by other teams in the B1G for 2 years now, as other coaches claim, why is it now that it comes to light?
With this Stapleton character floating about (disgruntled UM power broker, Harbaugh hater, sits on NCAA board) one must at least question what's going on behind the scenes; And with Harbaugh's imminent extension plus UM fielding what is seemingly one of its best teams in the past 50 years, it feels this all can't just be a coincidence in timing.
Feel free to challenge my presumptions or add your own - interested in hearing others thoughts on what appears to be a weaponized, faux scandal and why historically other rivals haven't snitch on one another, or why such muckraking generally doesn't result in full blown scandal OUTRAGE!!!
And yes, Ryan Day is absolutely bitchmade and look forward to Coach Karen getting dog walked for a 3rd straight year as he remains stranded on 3rd base.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
Mutually assured destruction.
Though, like paying recruits in casino chips and other such shenanigans it is possible to cheat and leave zero paper trail. If you theoretically wanted to do it I'm sure you could plan it, spend a few years totally sanitizing your program/program's OpSec, gain dirt on your rival and then unleash your attack.
Most would just rather do their thing and let others to theirs.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
This is more reason why we know Harbaugh and Michigan were not involved in this, and it was Stallion’s chosen extra curricular activity to get a slight edge in favoritism with the coaches by being a little better at stealing signals than the average sign stealer. If this was a Harbaugh or Michigan design, they would be as stupid to leave an obvious paper trail.
Also Harbaugh, who just found out about YouTube TV 3 weeks ago, probably isn’t thinking much about smart phones in the hands of random 20-something’s recording signs from the stands. I see him as guy who watches All-22 while eating his cheerios with whole milk in the morning.
It well past due for communication in helmets for all D1 NCAA teams. And no, money isn’t a factor. You could literally due away with the salaries of every sign stealer and use that money to put communications in about 10 total helmets on every team (5 QBs and 5 defensive play callers), and my guess is there would be several thousand dollars left over.
ITS GLARINGLY OBVIOUS the reasons coaches and the NCAA go against communications in helmets is BECAUSE THEY LIKE THE SLIGHT ADVANTAGE OF STEALING SIGNS.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:03 PM ^
Mutually assured destruction.
Exactly
…also, Snitches get stitches
October 29th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
My take on Day is that he believes he is so much smarter than everyone else, that he simply can't believe when he gets beaten. A modern day Charlie Weiss with a decided schematic advantage (in his mind).
October 29th, 2023 at 11:29 AM ^
This makes sense as this is also what Urban Meyer thinks about losing.
Remember reports of him being shocked at the competition in the NFL and how distraught he was at losing preseason games?
Being in total disbelief of any BiG10 loss (or any loss not to Bama or UGA) is a systemic mindset at Ohio State. Players, coaches, fans.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:36 AM ^
I think you’re right. This guy thinks hes such a savant that anyone who beats him must be cheating. Never forget he accused Clemson of the same thing. Maybe your signs are just too easy to steal Ryan
October 29th, 2023 at 5:46 PM ^
Personally this is exactly what I want in a head coach of a rival team. Give me a guy who is incapable of introspection, constantly makes excuses when they lose, and is so insecure he keeps getting in his own way. People characterize Harbaugh as being stubborn, but he was able to recognize the entire staff he built needed a top to bottom shake up after 2020. As long as Ryan Day thinks the problems with OSU's performance lie outside the program, I like our odds.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:30 AM ^
Why? Because the snitch is always outed and who wants to look like a Ryan Day.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
Cryin' Ryan has already resigned himself to the upcoming beating. This is why what was done was done. If he any any confidence in his staff, his team, and himself, none of this would have ever happened.
Cryin' Ryan is a pussy by an order of magnitude that this sport has never seen. What feelings must this instill in his players? He clearly has zero faith in them to get the job done.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
Are you twelve? This is shameful.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:49 AM ^
Ryan?!
October 29th, 2023 at 10:54 AM ^
No, Ryan’s mom.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
Decent summary, OP, thanks.
I posted elsewhere that I'm waiting for the CliffsNotes on this one. Looking forward to them, for sure. It seems that the range of possible outcomes is still pretty sizable.
- - -
Something else I posted in another thread: Even if the bit about Day's brother is useless bullshit, I wouldn't mind seeing OSU have to do some of their own unnecessary PR and defense.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:34 AM ^
Mutually assured destruction.
But now, with certain programs getting help from the NCAA and their conferences without fear of retribution, it's happening.
OSU knows the NCAA won't come after them and the B1G? Forget about that, the B1G is OSUs biggest enablers.
If you have kids, you'll easily understand the way these children, like Day, are behaving.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:40 AM ^
Oops, replied to the wrong comment.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:40 AM ^
CliffsNotes? Shit, I'm looking forward to the book and the feature-length film directed by Oliver Stone.
That's twice now that I've replied to BlueHeron but it shows up under this comment. Fuck it, I'm just leaving it here.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:58 AM ^
I got nothing right now.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
BlueHeron must have disabled replies to his post because it looks like you and I had the same problem. 😊
October 29th, 2023 at 12:09 PM ^
There is another big gorilla in the room that rarely gets into our discussions and that is the money canon that TV is paying the B1G. There are only a couple of teams in the B1G that matter, Michigan, OSU and PSU. TV does not want to take Michigan out of the equation as Michigan games are typically some of the most watched on TV.
I believe more with every passing day that the manner in which information has been leaked and the damage to the Michigan brand are worthy of civil litigation. I hope the Regents are similarly motivated as signgate would appear to be the red line in the sand and a time not to fall on the sword.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:36 AM ^
Famously, Fat Phil Fulmer did and we see how history remembers him.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^
Not rival football teams, but coaching rivalries can be pretty nasty too. Houston Nutt was the one that brought down Hugh Freeze at Ole Miss.
I never realized that Thomas Mars was Nutt's attorney. That dude needs to write a memoir some day.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:06 AM ^
Wayne Hall, Brother Oliver, Tommy Bowden. Bowden fired Hall and the a/d allegedly had to hire him as a consultant to keep him from snitching. Oliver overreached trying to bring down his head coach at Alabama, got fired, went to Auburn and pulled it off there.
I've got a feeling there's been a lot of snitching in that rivalry and we either never knew about it or we've forgotten it.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:36 AM ^
Slightly OT but if you've watched Ohio State this year, its pretty clear that they want to be the best B1G West team in the conference.
If Third Base is behind all this, then he's digging his own grave come 11/25 because what's going to be his excuse around 3:30 pm EDT once we've throttled them?
October 29th, 2023 at 10:39 AM ^
I'll give them this, they may not have the best defense in the B1G West but they easily have the best offense in that division.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:50 AM ^
They would be competing with 10 inches per play Iowa, not a high hill to climb.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:54 AM ^
Honda McCord had some pretty good passes to Maserati Marv, but also had a couple of INTs. When he plays well they have the WR talent to be very dangerous.
October 29th, 2023 at 3:47 PM ^
Honda McCord's Heisman candidacy took another hit last night. But he's still ahead of where Peyton Thorne was at during this time last year.
Also, Hondas are supposed to be reliable.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
Ryan Day: He is an absolute unhinged bitch.
This is embarrassing. Criticize Ryan Day's actions, but don't hurl personal insults. You can be better than this.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:46 AM ^
But where's Lou Holtz now?!
Unhinged bitchmade - rest my case
October 29th, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^
This coming on the heels of your “are you twelve” insult?!? Glass houses and all that…
October 29th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
Clearly I've come to the wrong place. My mistake.
October 29th, 2023 at 12:41 PM ^
If seeing someone called a bitch makes you this upset, then the internet in general is probably ‘the wrong place’ for you
October 29th, 2023 at 12:46 PM ^
shouldn’t you be in church, judgy?
October 29th, 2023 at 6:42 PM ^
obvious troll is obvious
October 29th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
Ryan Day’s brother easily could have gone rogue and had Michigan investigated on his own.
I don’t necessarily believe that Day would risk his reputation and career by having a guy with a ton of contacts investigated out of sheer pettiness.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:59 AM ^
But it is a fun fantasy....
October 29th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
This will be my one and only comment on the subject. Michigan should finalize and announce Jim’s extension now. It would be the biggest middle finger to the haters, including the softest coach in football.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
And lo, BlueFromKwaj hath spake.
October 29th, 2023 at 1:06 PM ^
I think at the point it's up to JH to take any offer.
He danced with the NFL the last two years, this might push him all the way to give up the nonsense of college football.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^
Because the original Pacific Conference fell apart due to snitching, and because you don't mess with guys' money.
In the 1950s the Pac teams all began snitching on each other. I think it started with UCLA but I haven't read that stuff in awhile. Everyone's dirty laundry got aired, and the conference still hasn't recovered. Most fans have forgotten but until recently I believe most administrators were very aware of it and the cautionary lesson from it that it's better to keep everyone else's bodies buried.
The second reason is football players get upset if you upset the system of money going to football players, and don't think long term about it. If Michigan snitches on Ohio State for a guy Ohio State bought, that guy might have trained in high school with Rod Moore, who'll be pissed, and his trainer is going to be pissed, and his coach is going to be pissed, and on and on. Ohio State doesn't want to take credit for snitching because it damages their relationships in recruiting. It's like, you ruined my kid's season and ran out a coach I built a relationship with, and now you want to come recruit my kids? If I don't send them to you are you going to ruin their seasons?
When you combine the two it's a recruiting problem. Coaches and trainers and parents know if you snitch you're going to get snitched on, and are wary of sending kids to your program that just removed the only thing holding back its rivals from turning them in. They're also mad at you for undermining other kids and their incomes. OSU is counting on sign stealing being such a small deal; if Michigan snitches on OSU's pay for play scheme however they're taking money from the coaches and trainers that Ohio State pays off and Michigan has to recruit from.
October 29th, 2023 at 12:07 PM ^
I had to go to GPT to help describe my thoughts
Yes, the phenomenon you are describing is often referred to as institutional inertia or path dependence. Institutional inertia occurs when established systems, processes, and structures within organizations or societies resist change, even when there is evidence that change is necessary or beneficial. This resistance to change can be caused by various factors, including fear of the unknown, vested interests in maintaining the status quo, and the perceived risks associated with change.
Path dependence, on the other hand, is a related concept that describes how the decisions and choices made in the past constrain future possibilities. Once a particular path is chosen, it becomes increasingly difficult to deviate from that path, even if there are better alternatives available.
The world is a complicated and confusing place. If you've figure out how to live in the world, you don't want anyone to mess it up. Whistle blowers rarely fair well.
October 29th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
Glass houses, that's why. Programs can claim institutional control, but it's nearly impossible to ensure total compliance when your department also includes 100 college kids, many of whom are massive celebrities, and there's so much pressure to win.
You may release the hounds on your rival, but once loose you can be assured you will be bit in the end.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
“If I go down I’m taking you with me.”
Everyone has dirt on everyone else. Everyone knows everyone else has skeletons in their closet too. It’s mutually assured destruction and why the Americans and Soviets didn’t nuke each other into oblivion during the Cold War.
Somewhat of an “honor among thieves” mentality.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^
MAD is an overhyped nuclear doctrine. I always preferred NUTS myself.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
I keep hearing Pacino's Glengarry Glenross "whoever told you you could work with men?" speech.
With Day as Kevin Spacey, of course.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^
"You fucking child!"
October 29th, 2023 at 11:36 AM ^
The best example I can think of would be Eric Dickerson. SMU paid off his Trans Am…that Texas A&M had gotten for him. A&M couldn’t exactly turn SMU in when it would’ve exposed them as similar frauds/cheaters
October 29th, 2023 at 11:39 AM ^
Nobody likes a rat. Then Ohio hired an actual rat.