Victory Formation in Shotgun
Maybe this isn’t topic worthy, but I didn’t see anyone else discussing this and was a little surprised at the end of the game that we were in the shotgun for the victory formation. Is there a better chance to recover a fumble from a shotgun snap than from a traditional snap under center? I just assumed there was less of a chance of a fumble from a traditional snap from under center – which is why you usually see that in the victory formation. I didn’t see any stats supporting this either way when I searched. Is this just the QB’s decision?
October 12th, 2021 at 4:08 PM ^
I was thinking the opposite. Catching a snap a few yards out seems easier to me and then you have the 3 dudes around you to catch your fuck up
October 12th, 2021 at 5:16 PM ^
If you’re referring to the goal line snap under center, this seems a little unfair to Cade. In his defense, his foot got stepped on by a lineman. Not really a “fuck up”, more or less just one of those weird football things.
October 12th, 2021 at 7:22 PM ^
You are correct that it isn't Cade's fuck up but it is not the first time this year that he has been stepped on after taking a snap from under center. Considering the amount of snaps taken under center compared to the issues that we've had I think it makes sense to do the thing that you are most familiar with.
I know Vastardis has been great this year but if he spends almost the entire game snapping shotgun then just keep doing that even if it is victory formation & looks kind of odd
October 13th, 2021 at 6:04 AM ^
10000000000% this. 90% of their reps come in shotgun, it's probably the safest route to go in that regard.
October 13th, 2021 at 6:49 AM ^
Except Harbaugh said it was on Cade and that he didn't have his feet placed correctly to avoid being stepped on. Said that they will work on it.
October 12th, 2021 at 7:23 PM ^
If you are going to bad mouth one of our players you should at least be honest in your criticism instead of misstating the facts to make him appear worse.
October 12th, 2021 at 7:40 PM ^
My bad, I said that poorly. I like Cade
October 12th, 2021 at 7:30 PM ^
I also knee jerk didn’t like it but I think that is just because it’s always been done that way. Frankly, I agree this is probably much safer given the amount they snap it and there’s next to zero chance a defender gets through the line to a fumbled ball before the three players back there.
October 12th, 2021 at 7:48 PM ^
We did the Victory Formation against Rutger and they came crashing through the OL trying to get a fumble. I thought it was dirty.
I also thought Frost would call for same - I liked the shotgun with a RB on either side.
October 12th, 2021 at 9:22 PM ^
Most likely in response to Rutgers being cheap pricks and firing into guys killing off the clock
October 12th, 2021 at 9:26 PM ^
That’s a Schiano trademark. He did that in at least one of his first few games in the NFL and the other team was pissed, but he kept doing it. I wonder if the shotgun was a direct response to that; with the ball going farther back there’s less reason to go low on the linemen.
October 13th, 2021 at 9:36 AM ^
Just hope the snap doesn't go over the QB's head...
October 13th, 2021 at 10:26 AM ^
That's why the QB is flanked by 2 RBs, they can/should chase the ball down before a defender could get to it.
October 13th, 2021 at 6:27 AM ^
On the first kneel down an outside Nebraska guy crashed hard. Haskins stoned him and gave him the stare afterwards. The next kneel down was uneventful.
October 12th, 2021 at 4:09 PM ^
Probably just a matter of continuing to do what the C and QB are most comfortable with.
October 12th, 2021 at 5:48 PM ^
Yup. Same reason we don’t QB sneak it. They don’t have enough practice with the regular C-QB snap.
October 13th, 2021 at 10:01 AM ^
Except that we did in fact run a QB sneak (with McCarthy) against Wisconsin.
October 12th, 2021 at 4:10 PM ^
Getting the center some shotgun snap reps while lighting the cigar, I like it.
October 13th, 2021 at 11:55 AM ^
...as long as he doesn't hike the ball over the QB's head...
October 13th, 2021 at 12:57 PM ^
pretty sure that's why there's like 2-3 guys between 6 and 10 yards off the LOS on a kneel down play, regardless of whether it's under center or shotgun
October 12th, 2021 at 4:13 PM ^
When I coached HS football we were primarily in shotgun.
However, we did our victory formation under center.
I hate that UM does this out of shotgun. But they are in shotgun 98% of the time, so it’s probably a better option for a team that hardly goes under center.
October 12th, 2021 at 10:20 PM ^
I think the shotgun victory formation makes sense. In single possession games there have been times when a coach has his d-line go full blast to try and shove an offensive lineman into the QB and force a fumble. The shotgun provides a cushion to prevent this.
The few times I have seen a coach try that everyone criticized them for being poor sportsmen, especially when the win seemed extremely improbable, but that's precisely the type of thing a guy like Scott Frost would do in the position he's in.
October 13th, 2021 at 10:16 AM ^
Dantonio is kicking himself for not thinking of this first. That would be right up his alley. Lose the game, but injure the opposing QB and C on the last play? Totally worth it.
October 12th, 2021 at 4:15 PM ^
My guess is it has to do with what the center and QB feel more comfortable with. I personally think it's better. Any fumble will be recovered very quickly by the two players directly next to the QB or the QB himself. If it goes over the QB's head, there's a player 10 yards behind him. Not to mention it completely eliminates a mesh point less than a yard from the defense.
October 12th, 2021 at 4:17 PM ^
I was at the game and was screaming my head off when i saw this, but the more i thought about it afterwards the more I could see it make sense considering that is the normal QB formation. Like the OP says probably just what Cade is more comfortable with...
October 12th, 2021 at 4:51 PM ^
He took one snap from under center, and it was the on where he tripped and killed a potential TD
makes sense why he didn't want to do it on the last play
October 12th, 2021 at 9:23 PM ^
You were seriously screaming your head off about that?
odd
October 12th, 2021 at 4:17 PM ^
Did someone say shotgun?
{maryland shotgun beer girl.gif}
October 12th, 2021 at 4:22 PM ^
I’m pretty sure you’re supposed to wait until Maryland week to summon the gif of MARYLAND GIRL.
October 12th, 2021 at 5:02 PM ^
It always feels appropriate to me.
October 12th, 2021 at 4:46 PM ^
The first thing that crossed my mind was who wears sunglasses in a room?
October 12th, 2021 at 4:52 PM ^
Isn't the answer obvious?
Why it's the Maryland Girl who crushes full beer cans on her forehead and shotguns the contents.
October 12th, 2021 at 4:57 PM ^
well said. in a weird way, I'm kinda in love with Maryland Girl. I also worry about her. A lot.
October 12th, 2021 at 6:11 PM ^
I may be wrong on this one, but wasn't the story that she was actually the mother of a Maryland student?
October 12th, 2021 at 6:50 PM ^
If so, I'm really worried about her.
October 12th, 2021 at 11:08 PM ^
I live in Maryland. She's mostly ok.
October 12th, 2021 at 9:24 PM ^
The chick with 2 black eyes from smashing beer cans into her head?
October 13th, 2021 at 6:59 AM ^
I believe Larry David said only blind people and assholes.
October 12th, 2021 at 6:58 PM ^
That had to hurt. The next day.
October 13th, 2021 at 8:56 AM ^
Yo man, my email is my username at gmail.com. Hit me up there for my venmo!
October 12th, 2021 at 7:41 PM ^
You already know she fell or the counter broke.
#GirlsOnElevatedSurfaces
October 13th, 2021 at 7:37 AM ^
How does smashing a can against one’s head open the can? (Serious question.)
October 12th, 2021 at 4:18 PM ^
if you're primarily a shotgun/pistol team (like Michigan is) they practice the long snap more than the under center exchange by virtue of just running the offense. It makes more sense to run the victory kneel with a similar snap. note that earlier Cade tripped on his Center's feet on that HB dive gone wrong to Haskins while under center. There are two backs flanking Cade and one deep in case of an errant snap. It just eliminates another possibility of something stupid happening
October 12th, 2021 at 4:20 PM ^
At the end of the Rutgers game, Michigan went under center for its victory formation. I have no inside information, but I can identify three possible reasons that Michigan switched to a shotgun snap for its victory formation.
- Michigan runs far more plays from shotgun than under center.
- Rutgers* got uncomfortably close to blowing up Michigan's victory formation several weeks ago.
- Nebraska had already submarined Vastardis on Haskins' second overturned touchdown run.
Nebraska only had a chance to win if it fouled the center-to-quarterback exchange. Switching to a shotgun victory formation increased McNamara's comfort with the snap and kept the ball farther away from any potential disaster.
*Interestingly, this is not a new tactic for Schiano. He took a lot of (probably justified) heat from the NFL establishment for trying to blow up victory formations during his time coaching the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
October 12th, 2021 at 4:27 PM ^
Yes this is correct. Schiano is known for attempting to blast into the victory formation. If the snap is shotgun, it reduces the chance that such a move will have any effect.
October 12th, 2021 at 4:55 PM ^
Nebraska drove hard from the outside into Haskins on the first kneel down, so I think Scotty follows the Schiano philosophy. One way to outhit your opponent in a losing cause.
October 12th, 2021 at 5:07 PM ^
That was my unspoken fourth justification. I haven't paid enough attention to Frost-coached teams facing victory formations, but proponents of moral victories and outhitting other teams tend to put a lot of stock in such antics.
October 13th, 2021 at 5:34 AM ^
Always seems like a big time dick move / sore loser play. Has anyone ever forced a turnover on a kneel down? I imagine someone has in high school but I can't imagine it's happened more than maaaybe once or twice at the FBS level or NFL
October 12th, 2021 at 6:50 PM ^
Let me take you back to 2004. Michigan squeaked out a win against SDSU. Henne was under center for the victory formation. Some jackass from SDSU threw himself over the line and hit Henne head-to-head. He was ejected and that was the day I decided that shotgun was the answer.
October 13th, 2021 at 6:39 AM ^
Major props for digging this one out of the archives!