OT: Offweek pondering. The Brady Hoke appreciation thread
Look, Brandon probably shouldn't have given Hoke the job here. At times he seemed over his head and his lack of awareness about what was happening on the field was at times baffling. At the end of his tenure it was clear he had to go.
But to his credit, Hoke currently has San Diego State at 5-0 and ranked in the Top 25 with wins over Arizona and Utah. Granted, Rocky Long left him the program in top shape, as SDSU went 10-3 in 2019 including a win over UCLA.
I am very happy to see Coach Hoke have success back at SDSU again. He could have easily packed it in after his embarrassing end at Michigan and just ridden into the sunset to count his money, But he chose to get back in the mud again and, so far, has been quite successful.
His tenure here at Michigan will never be considered good, but after the insanity of the RichRod years he at least restored our defense to respectability and stabilized the program. He especially solidified or defensive line.
So here's to you Coach Hoke, and to continued success at SDSU.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:42 PM ^
Was unaware that would make any difference at all. The offense declines as follows starting in 2010 (RR's last year):
11th - (RR)
12th - Denard under center (Borges)
26th - Denard hurt but they weren't good before he was injured (Borges)
52nd - Gardner barely survived (Borges)
76th - Gardner was taught how to identify a MIKE and still almost died (Nuss)
They had a dead cat bounce year in 2011 in large part thanks to Denard and then it became incompetent. Hoke not hiring "to be named here" wasn't the issue.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:54 PM ^
I bring it up because it was rumored at the time that Brandon forced Hoke to make the switch to Nuss. It was also rumored that Brandon wanted Denard under center. I don't know if that was ever confirmed, but Hoke's BSU and SDSU offenses had often operated out of the gun, while at Michigan he went under center almost exclusively. That was curious.
October 14th, 2021 at 5:15 PM ^
IF that were true, that looks worse than doing it on his own. Doing it because the AD says so is pathetic.
I know Brandon sucked, but he can suck at the admin side of the athletic department. If you, as the HC, listen to the AD on how to run your offense, you deserve to be fired.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:42 PM ^
Once he was named interim HC, his employment at UTenn was on the clock. No way he was going to be allowed to stick around after a new HC was named. Nobody wants the teams previous HC to stay on as an assistant.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:46 PM ^
I'm not sure I'd read that much into Oregon and Tennessee. On the one hand he didn't do much to improve the defense in the single year that he was at each school.
On the other hand, both of those teams had terrible defenses the year before, and each of those head coaches was on the hot seat to start out with (and wound up getting fired). Typically it takes time to fix a defense, and he didn't exactly have many (or more likely any) of his own recruits at either school.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:01 PM ^
Oregon's defense was so bad people we calling for his firing before they even got to PAC 12 play. People asked whether he could actually coordinate a defense at all, something he had never done before Oregon and something he never did afterwards.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:40 PM ^
People have been calling for Harbaugh to be fired too. Doesn’t mean he isn’t doing his job.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:51 PM ^
In his first 6 games: "Oregon ranks No. 126 out of 128 teams in the Football Bowl Subdivision in team defense, giving up 522.3 yards per game, and No. 125 in points allowed per game at 41.8. Opponents are averaging a staggering 6.44 yards per play."
https://www.freep.com/story/sports/college/university-michigan/wolverin…
His defense gave up 70 points to Washington in that one year. By the end of the season they ranked 106th in defense in SP+ and gave up 39.8 PPG. He was an unmitigated disaster.
October 14th, 2021 at 6:48 PM ^
Sure, that defense was bad, but only marginally worse than the year before when they were ranked 116th and had given up 62 points to Utah and 42 to Eastern Washington.
October 14th, 2021 at 8:21 PM ^
They were 83rd in SP+ in 2015 and gave up 37ppg with 3 games going into at least 2OTs.
The defense was bad under Hoke. He's not a coordinator. This isn't remotely debatable.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:31 PM ^
if for whatever reason he leaves SDSU (he's doing well so it wouldn't be for performance) I would LOVE Harbaugh to hire him as a DL coach/OSU gameplan specialist.
As overmatched as his teams were, he's maybe 5-6 plays away from going 4-0 vs OSU; and as it's been mentioned here many times, the bulk of our 2016 defense (one of Michigan's all time best, and a DL that was hands down Michigan's best of all time) was recruited by him.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:09 PM ^
2012 - just put Denard in in the 4th quarter
2013 - have a second 2P conversion play drawn up
2014 - we lost by two TDs but we were damn competitive.
Literally 2 plays away from 3-1
October 14th, 2021 at 3:19 PM ^
2012 - Draw up different plays when Denard enters the game in the 4th qtr. Denard couldn't physically throw the ball at that point and there was no decoy play - he was running.
October 14th, 2021 at 6:09 PM ^
2014 if Drake Johnson doesn't get hurt, and we make one 4th down stop where the entire defense guessed and slanted one way when OSU ran it the other way, we may have won that one too.
Harbaugh has only been close in one of his 4 losses to OSU*
October 14th, 2021 at 4:19 PM ^
OSU game planner and hype man who focuses on it all year. I love it.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:31 PM ^
Its really really hard for me to appreciate him, but I can give credit for his performance so far at SDSU of which I'm quite surprised. I never thought he had the chops to be a head coach anywhere.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:00 PM ^
you have to give him credit for one very important thing: he did not leave the cupboard bare in terms of player talent. the roster wasn't perfect, but for a guy that got fired, it was relatively loaded with talent.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:04 PM ^
So despite successful head coaching stints at Ball State and San Diego State before coming to Michigan, earning "Coach of the Year" honors in both conferences, you didn't think he could be a head coach anywhere?
October 14th, 2021 at 3:18 PM ^
This was detailed to death right before he was fired, but Hoke's overall success at Ball State was in-line with overall average historical success of the program. People were putting a lot of weight into his final season at Ball State. As for his first stint at SDSU, it showed promise, but not groundbreaking. He was not going to get the Michigan job if he had NOT been a "Michigan Man".
With that, I should have been more clear. Brady Hoke does not have the chops to be a head coach, let alone coordinator, at a P5 program.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:52 PM ^
He was a P5 coach for a total of four years. He had three winning seasons during that time and recruited extremely well. He may not have been the right head coach for us but to say he couldn't hack it anywhere is a pretty hot take. Really, all he needed to do here was find a good OC (and/or tell Brandon to back off and stop micromanaging).
October 14th, 2021 at 5:08 PM ^
The data is clear. Winning season or not, Hoke absolutely cannot hack it as a P5 coach or coordinator. Stating that he had some winning seasons at Michigan is a smokescreen because just having a winning season is not enough to be successful. Losing record to OSU, losing record to MSU, losing to Rutgers and Maryland (geez!). But hey, he always beat Northwestern and he was kinda cool.
But I'll be clear again. He CANNOT hack it as a P5 coach or coordinator. The data is very clear on this. I hope he improves, but I hope he's just happy doing what he's doing now.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:32 PM ^
he at least restored our defense to respectability and stabilized the program
I recall his last season being marred by a concussed Shane Morris not being removed from a game, and a 5-7 record. Hoke seemed like a nice enough guy, but this is some real revisionist history. During Hoke's tenure, the further the team got away from the Rich Rod years (themselves a disaster of epic proportions), the worse it got.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:42 PM ^
Brady wouldve been well off pairing his recruiting chops with a high scoring offensive mind. Let Mattison handle the d and get an OC that tested defenses. Like Harbaugh money ball'd with Don Brown, Hoke shouldve done that with an OC. Many of these coaches are assistant dependent he just hired poorly on the offensive side.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:44 PM ^
IMO he absolutely stabilized our recruiting and left the roster in a better place than he received it.
Yeah his last year was a shit-show. That is why he was fired. At least some of the chaos had to do with Brandon being an ass-hat.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:06 PM ^
I think you are giving Brandon to much credit with that description. I'm glad Brady is doing well. I have a hard time crashing down on anyone who loves UM as much as I do.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:36 PM ^
He also recruited the bulk of the 2016 roster, which was by far the most talented team we’ve had for a minute. He wasn’t a great in-game coach by any means, but he left the program in a much better place than he found it.
October 14th, 2021 at 5:36 PM ^
Except for the 2013 and 2014 classes, specifically the OL. The reason for why our 2016 season fell apart after injuries to starters and why 2017 was a bad year was he left the OL depth in an awful spot. We had some starting OL go down against Nebraska last week and I wasn’t really worried about the replacements. In 2015-2018, I’d be freaking the fuck out when any one of our starting OL was down on the field. It’s taken a long time to build up the OL room. QB recruiting was also awful during his tenure: I can’t imagine how poorly that 2015 season would have gone if we were unable to land Rudock as a grad transfer. Let’s not get revisionist about leaving the program better than he found it; Hoke also went 11-2 with Rodriguez’s players in his first year.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:39 PM ^
Good job Hoke
Is he still selling jerseys in Ohio?
October 14th, 2021 at 2:39 PM ^
Clap, clap.
Go, Brady!
October 14th, 2021 at 2:42 PM ^
Coach Hoke is a decent human being--the kind of person you want influencing the lives of young football players. I wish there were more Hokes and less jokes (like Urban, Gruden, et al) in the game.
To his credit, Coach Hoke has seemingly improved on his weaknesses and become better at his craft. He's found a nice spot at SDSU and I hope he continues to thrive there.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:55 PM ^
To his credit, Coach Hoke has seemingly improved on his weaknesses and become better at his craft. He's found a nice spot at SDSU and I hope he continues to thrive there.
Also had the humility to go back to the school he used to be head coach of (SDSU) and take an assistant coach position (not even a coordinator, but just DL coach) under his former assistant Rocky Long. He was only DL coach for a year, as Long retired after the 2019 season and he took over as head coach again, but still it has to be tough to go back to the program he used to run and take a position so much farther down the ladder as a subordinate to his old assistant.
(Even more strange though is that Long retired after 2019 (a 10-3 season, his fourth 10+ win season in five years) as head coach of SDSU, and by the start of the 2020 season had taken a lower job (DC) at arguably a lower program, New Mexico).
October 14th, 2021 at 2:43 PM ^
I'll agree, good guy, loves Michigan, was in way over his head.
he's doing well at SDSU, as he was prior to being hired as HC. I think he's found his place in that situation and will probably coach there as long as he wants to coach. The weather isn't bad either.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:45 PM ^
Congratulations to Hoke on 5-0. Never should have been the coach here, but is good at a school like where he is. Don't play kids that are clearly concussed
October 14th, 2021 at 2:45 PM ^
He failed as a coach, and the Morris thing wasn't great. I am inclined to believe leaving Shane in was an honest boneheaded mistake.
Other than those 2 things, he seemed like a great guy and a great ambassador for Michigan. I wasn't upset when RR was let go. I was WAY more disappointed that Hoke didn't work out.
He is responsible for out ONLY win over OSU last decade.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:46 PM ^
Brady Hoke is good man and a good head coach. His first two years were good. His recruiting was great. Glad to see him doing well.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:48 PM ^
Brady Hoke is where he should be, either SDSU or at a MAC school. He'll find and achieve success at this lower level. It makes one wonder how he had an 11 win season in his first year at Michigan so something went right. I'm not complaining. His tenure at Michigan was not a total bust based on year one.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:50 PM ^
Can he still do a solid Clap though?
October 14th, 2021 at 2:53 PM ^
Brady Hoke:
- Continued a long, long streak of Michigan losing at least the two most important games on its schedule (2011 - Iowa and Michigan State, neither of which was remotely competitive, and we don't need to get into the other three years)
- Struck out on every OL recruit he brought into Michigan (never mind the legitimate scandal that arose with Logan Tulley-Tillman) and deserves at least partial blame for the low ceiling and total lack of depth from 2015-17
- Trusted Al Borges way too long and never developed any semblance of an offensive scheme
- Legitimately endangered the life of one of his players and likely so deeply screwed up said player's fundamentals that he never stood a chance to recover and make a decent name for himself
- Ruined Denard AND Devin, and
- Was a useful idiot / puppet for the biggest jackass the University has employed in recent memory, which if you've been paying attention for the past few years, SAYS QUITE A LOT.
I will not have any rose-colored glasses for a guy who inherited the best offense in the conference and more or less totaled the car within a year. Good for him for finding his lane at SDSU, but good riddance.
October 15th, 2021 at 3:30 AM ^
Wow. Tell us how you really feel.
1. On Borges. I find it hilarious that Borges continues to get a bad rap despite that he's the last OC to put together an offensive gameplan that actually beat Ohio State. Yeah there were some head-scratchers but it wasn't like Borges was the worst offensive coordinator in the conference. Or even the worst OC that Michigan has had since.
2. "Legitimately endangered the life..." Shane actually wanted to stay on the field and signaled to the coaches he was okay. He wasn't, obviously, but let's not pretend that Hoke forced him to play. It was poor communication and happened fast in real time. Should it have been handled better? Sure, but get off your soapbox. Also, Shane was a straight up bust. Even without the concussion. The signs were already there going back to the Elite 11 camp and the Under Armor game. Hoke didn't "ruin" him. Morris was a guy who was projected as beyond awesome and turned out to have peaked at De La Salle as a soph.
3. "Ruined Denard and Devin." Give me a fucking break. These guys had their best years record wise under Hoke. If Denard had transferred it is highly unlikely he would have played QB anywhere else. Devin had a poor OL. No QB would have fared better. If you want to criticize Hoke for anything in this area, it's that he continued to trust Darrell Funk.
4. "Struck out on every OL recruit." In my opinion this is more that the unit was just poorly coached by Funk. Yeah, Kalis was a massive bust, but other OL turned out well for Harbaugh, who himself has had some recruiting misses.
Hoke is doing well at SDSU. Honestly I hope they go undefeated this year. Why be so bitter about it?
October 14th, 2021 at 2:55 PM ^
Is he wearing a headset now? Because in 2011 when he didn't wear it and won the Sugar Bowl it was great that he could hear the game and feel his team, but in 2014 when he went 5-7 it meant that he had no idea what he was doing.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:57 PM ^
I am one of the people who thought that his hire was going to be a great one. I looked pretty smart in 2011. Although it obviously did not work, I think it says a lot about the dysfunction around the program at the time also. Perhaps if he had come in at a different time things would’ve been different. Or perhaps not. Either way, good for him for rebounding so soundly.
October 14th, 2021 at 2:58 PM ^
With the right coordinators, Hoke is a very good mid-major coach, but it was obvious from day 1 that he wasn't capable of running Michigan's program.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:01 PM ^
I think one of his main downfalls was only signing 1 QB across 2 classes and unfortunately that QB never ended up being what we hoped.
His last recruiting class was poised to be great but once his job was no longer secure, it completely fell apart.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:25 PM ^
He’s not the only recent coach to have qb issues tho, is he?
October 14th, 2021 at 3:01 PM ^
2013 and 2014 were so bad and so insanely frustrating. I'm happier remembering Hoke when he was on the defensive staff when things were more stable (and there was no Dave Brandon.)
Like the final 30 seconds of the Ohio State game in 1997 when all the coaches and players were hugging and Hoke literally picked Lloyd up off the ground in a big bear hug....
1:31:36 in....
October 14th, 2021 at 3:02 PM ^
I appreciate him as a person, but not as a head coach. He was not ready for Michigan.
His best season was with Rich Rod's guys and essentially Rich Rod's offense, and the wins decreased each year after that. By the time 2014 rolled around I saw little difference between his 5-7 team and Rich Rod's 2008 team in on-field production.
Maybe more of the blame falls on Dave Brandon's shoulders; we don't know, but while I like Hoke's character and his personality, his on-field results for us will always be a stigma.
I'm glad he's doing well at SDSU, but I don't miss him being here.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:03 PM ^
Regardless of Coach Hoke's head coaching performances at SDSU or Michigan, he should forever be embraced and celebrated by this fanbase due his DL coaching role on our last National Championship team. The 1997 DL played an immeasurable part in several wins, most notably @Penn State/Judgment Day. It's not a coincidence that Coach Hoke is universally beloved by almost every one of his former players.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:15 PM ^
He has always reminded me of Ed Orgeron from LSU. The guy can flat out recruit and if he has the right coordinators he can succeed. If he has wrong coordinators he can really struggle. He is never going to be a mastermind at X's and O's but can be a good coach with some help.