OT: Offweek pondering. The Brady Hoke appreciation thread
Look, Brandon probably shouldn't have given Hoke the job here. At times he seemed over his head and his lack of awareness about what was happening on the field was at times baffling. At the end of his tenure it was clear he had to go.
But to his credit, Hoke currently has San Diego State at 5-0 and ranked in the Top 25 with wins over Arizona and Utah. Granted, Rocky Long left him the program in top shape, as SDSU went 10-3 in 2019 including a win over UCLA.
I am very happy to see Coach Hoke have success back at SDSU again. He could have easily packed it in after his embarrassing end at Michigan and just ridden into the sunset to count his money, But he chose to get back in the mud again and, so far, has been quite successful.
His tenure here at Michigan will never be considered good, but after the insanity of the RichRod years he at least restored our defense to respectability and stabilized the program. He especially solidified or defensive line.
So here's to you Coach Hoke, and to continued success at SDSU.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:44 PM ^
I can't remember which Bacon book it was, but it illustrated that Hoke was not a really good recruiter, maybe just average. He and the staff relied mostly on the rankings of the recruiting sites, which lead to more "false positives" (i.e. misses).
The one example is the Derrick Green (5-star) vs Ezekial Elliot (4-star) recruitment. We thought we got this big recruiting win when we got Green (yay, we got a 5-star!), but if you look where the big schools were focusing their effort on, it was not Green, but rather Elliot. And the high school film was so clear that Elliot was a bigger/better recruit, but Hoke didn't put much effort there.
I will say this, Hoke knows DL, but that's about it.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:21 PM ^
Hoke is credited with lead-recruiting Tom Brady to Michigan. Even if every other player Hoke recruited to Michigan was a gigantic flame-out, recruiting the GOAT should end any debate about his recruiting contributions. Brady was heralded as a high school athlete, but he certainly wasn't regarded as a "can't miss" prospect. Plus, Hoke/Michigan had to not only compete with other college football programs, but also the Montreal Expos.
The oft-attributed Hoke quote regarding Brady's recruitment was, "Tom wasn't the greatest athlete, with those skinny legs, but there was something about him."
October 14th, 2021 at 5:10 PM ^
If you can provide me evidence that Tom Brady came to Michigan because of Hoke, I'll retract my statement above.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:21 PM ^
This is a case of water finding its level. Hoke is not a bad coach, he is just not cut out for a program like Michigan.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:28 PM ^
Happy for Hoke who is a decent guy. but there is no need to dig on RichRod which left Hoke a solid offense to work with.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:36 PM ^
I was a student during the 4 years of his coaching. Definitely lost the support of the students in years 3 and 4, but in the handful of instances where I got to meet him, I really liked him.
Would love to see him come back on staff at Michigan in a non-head coach position. And I hope that if he comes back to Michigan Stadium in any capacity (either as a guest or coach), he is welcomed with a warm applause. Not for the accomplishments on the field, but as somebody who tried with all his heart. Very unfortunate that his efforts didn't pan out, but I cannot bring myself to ever boo the man.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:29 PM ^
If he comes back as an assistant that would probably mean he got fired by SDSU. I’d rather see him be successful out there.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:55 PM ^
That is a very fair point. In that situation, I would prefer him to not be here.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:39 PM ^
Hoke gave us the only win against Ohio State since (deep sigh) 2004.
I hoped at the time that Harbaugh would offer him a coaching position so he’d stay with the team. The players loved him and he recruited well. Not sure if he would have accepted had he been offered but who knows?
October 14th, 2021 at 4:38 PM ^
I don't think it would have been beneficial for either party to have done that.
For Hoke, those are all your players, and its not really your team anymore. Do you really want to be taking marching orders from the guy who just took your job after you got thrown out? Maybe he would have, and if he would have he's a far bigger man that I ever would be, because I know my pride would never allow me to do that.
If I'm Harbaugh, as thankful as I am that Hoke left a relatively full cupboard of talent, I want to make sure that I'm laying down the expectation that this is my team now. We're doing things my way, and we're building my culture now. Hoke doesn't seem like the kind of guy who would undermine your authority, but do you want to take that chance? Do you want your players to feel like they still owe loyalty to Hoke and would rather listen to him than to you? If even one player feels like that, it can spread like wildfire for the other guys who may want to as well but are otherwise too afraid to act on it.
Maybe if there is a mutually beneficial situation to offer him a gig after all of his recruited players have cycled out of the program, then fine. But right afterwards? Nope. It would never have been a good idea for Harbaugh to offer Hoke a job afterwards, and I wouldn't have blamed Hoke for one second if he had told Harbaugh he can never work for him.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:55 PM ^
For all the reasons listed, you’re likely right.
BUT, Hoke absolutely loves Michigan. There’s a chance he would have overlooked his ego for the good of the team.
I’m nearly 100% certain Harbaugh never reached out to Hoke back then. But today? Maybe?
Hokes a great coach, just not a great head coach.
October 14th, 2021 at 3:53 PM ^
I always liked Hoke. I'm not enough of a coach to really comment on his actual coaching acumen, and whether or not he could have succeeded at a power 5 program. But I think between Hoke helping the DL, and Greg Mattison as DC, it really helped Michigan. I also remember that Hoke wasn't half bad at recruiting, and made a big influence on a number of players. I certainly wish him success wherever he lands. And San Diego is not a bad place to be.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:20 PM ^
Two quick notes. First, I heard from a guy with the program that players loved Hoke when he was an assistant coach, and he gets nothing but respect from former players. Yeah, it didn't work out like anyone hoped, but given that respect, and his success at other schools before us, the hire was completely legitimate.
Second, the same friend in the program who was on the sidelines during the Morris game told me that, as hard as it can be for us to understand, it can be a madhouse on the sideline, and, my friend insists, not having the perspective that comes from height (either in the stadium or from the TV cameras for those of us at home), Hoke simply didn't see the injury, nor Morris's wobbly response to it.
Those of us watching on TV were subjected to it ad nauseam, of course, as well as the outrage of the announcers covering the game (my memory says perhaps it was Spielman, but I'm not sure), but my friend insists that Hoke himself simply had no idea it was happening.
I expressed skepticism that nobody up in the press box could have called down to let Hoke know, but apparently they didn't -- or at least, perhaps they were unaware Hoke hadn't seen it when it happened either, so it took a play or two for them to respond as well. Who knows?
Anyway, I'm not meaning to completely absolve Hoke from any guilt, of course -- ultimately it's his team, and his obligation to protect the players in such circumstances. Still, particularly in light of the respect he generates from the players who played under him, I'm wiling to accept that his error, whatever it was, was not a knowing disregard for Morris's health.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:29 PM ^
Bacon addressed the press box issue. The longtime person who would have heard the broadcast & the issue & alerted the team wasn’t doing that that day - because he was training the person Brandon picked to replace him.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:32 PM ^
The job was just too big for him, and there's honestly no shame in that. In Hoke's defense, very, very few people would be able to handle all the expectations and pressure that comes with being the head coach of Michigan football. Every single one of us, albeit on a much smaller scale, were at one time or another put into a position or asked to perform some kind of job or task that we should not have been. That we were not qualified to carry out. Hoke gave it his best shot, and that's honestly all you could really ask of him.
He's found the level that works for him and he's doing very well at it. His teams provided some good memories, and fluky season or not, he's the last coach at Michigan to have beaten OSU or to have won a bowl game that matters. No one can take that away from him. I will also always appreciate how much he wanted to beat OSU. It was ingrained into the DNA of his program how personal that game was, he never shied away from letting anyone know about it, and save for one half in 2012, Hoke never hesitated to get creative and empty the playbook to beat those guys. His teams showed up against OSU and made them earn a W. If his OC changes up one playcall in 2013, he's the architect of one of the biggest wins in Michigan football history.
Wish him all the luck in the world. Seems like the kind of guy who would be a ton of fun to sit down with at a bar for a few hours, share a few pitchers of beer, and just swap some stories.
October 14th, 2021 at 5:56 PM ^
Well said. His teams played Ohio State tough, and that’s what I’ll remember most about his time as head coach. His teams wanted that game bad and it showed. He was a handful of plays away from going 4-0 against Ohio State.
October 14th, 2021 at 6:32 PM ^
I’m not sure 2014 was ever really going to have a possibility of falling into the win column for Michigan. OSU pulled away fast in the fourth quarter, but 2012 and 2013? Absolutely.
You could make a case for Hoke easily being 3-1 in the rivalry. But by the same token, he was one Braxton Miller overthrow to DeVier Posey away from being 0-4.
College football for ya.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:33 PM ^
Hoke is solid human being. Not an abundance of those running around these days. He truly loves the game and appears to be in it for all the right reasons.
October 14th, 2021 at 7:04 PM ^
He made less than the woman's basketball coach at Ball State so I suspect he loves to coach.
October 14th, 2021 at 4:35 PM ^
Hecklinski (who Hoke hired as OC for this run at SDSU) was Hoke's strongest assistant on the offensive side during his time at M, and he's a good coach. Not a modern offense guy, but a plus recruiter and generally competent.
October 14th, 2021 at 5:05 PM ^
I wish Coach Hoke was back at M Coaching the D line and recruiting his butt off for us. He would be a great guy to have a beer with and hear his side of the story during his head Coach time. Best of luck to him!!!
October 14th, 2021 at 5:27 PM ^
Good for him.
October 14th, 2021 at 5:29 PM ^
Good for Coach Hoke. Seemed his biggest issue at Michigan were lack of really good quarterbacks recruited and developed
October 14th, 2021 at 6:25 PM ^
Devin Gardner could have been great were it not for the fact that he had three offensive coordinators in five years (and was switched to wide receiver at one point in 2012 and then hastily switched back when Denard got injured). His lights-out performances vs. Notre Dame, Indiana, and Ohio State in 2013 showed that he had elite talent and was capable of amazing things. There is no other player I can think of who was more deserving of realizing his potential but couldn't due to factors completely beyond his control.
October 14th, 2021 at 5:30 PM ^
It's all about those kids - clap, clap, clap, clap
October 14th, 2021 at 5:59 PM ^
A win over a winless Arizona is not something the brag about but none the less, congrats, Hoke.
October 14th, 2021 at 6:16 PM ^
The Hoke argument needs to end. He was stuck in the worse possible position. He was never a big time coach, he was a band aid to the end of Carr's career. He loves Michigan, i repeat loves Michigan. He is perfect for small programs.
Lets move on from that. Harbaugh, while imperfect. Is great for the program. Michigan will have an elite year every 6 years, that's the norm.
October 14th, 2021 at 6:18 PM ^
Last Coach to best OSU
October 14th, 2021 at 6:19 PM ^
He had his moments, most notably the OSU win 2011, the Sugar Bowl win, and the MSU win in 2012. In all of the years we lost to OSU under Hoke, we were at least competitive even when we had no business hanging with them (like 2013). He recruited well without engaging in overt shenanigans. He held on to Denard and built his offense around his strengths instead of taking a square peg, round hole approach like Rich Rod did in 2008. He hired good coordinators (and firing Borges in 2013 was an ill-advised, reactionary move seeing as how our offense completely fell off a cliff when he left). He had a winning record against Notre Dame. He was a genuinely likeable guy who was beloved by his players.
And he'll always have his tenure as an assistant under Lloyd Carr, which is what landed him his first head coaching job at Ball State. He was the one who convinced Carr to offer Tom Brady a scholarship.
So yeah, there were bright spots for sure.
October 14th, 2021 at 6:30 PM ^
USC should hire him. Only partly joking
October 14th, 2021 at 6:39 PM ^
Yeah but what about Lloyd Brady?
October 14th, 2021 at 8:04 PM ^
I'm not sure I understand all the arguing about a guy who isn't here any more. We all know the record. Great guy, didn't win enough games here in his last few years. So it goes.
It's not like arguing about him or his record matters; he's gone.
I wish him well at SDSU. In fact, I wish I lived in San Diego, but of course, not for Hoke. I like the weather.
October 14th, 2021 at 8:50 PM ^
Good stuff. Rooting for Hoke like I rooted for Rodriguez at Arizona.
October 15th, 2021 at 12:03 AM ^
I've said it before, but I would take him as DL coach in a second.
In that role, he's definitely a dude.
October 15th, 2021 at 8:47 AM ^
Good for Brady Hoke, I'm glad he is doing well. We will always have the UTL game against Notre Dame, and of course that one time we actually beat OSU in the last 15 years.
October 15th, 2021 at 8:54 AM ^
October 15th, 2021 at 2:46 PM ^
I understand where you're coming from. I really do.
But, respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. My continued dislike for Brady Hoke goes beyond the results on the field - which were abysmal and embarrassing - and rest mostly on his coaching and leadership style.
- Hoke ignored injuries. To me, this is unforgivable and if it was up to me he would never have any responsibility over young men ever again. Denard's "boo boo" was left to fester until Denard couldn't throw a pass. He famously "didn't want to know" about Gardner's injuries (broken foot, IIRC?). And...
- The Shane Morris Fiasco (TM). His quote afterwards was something like, "if he didn't want to be the starting QB for Michigan he could have come out." That's WORSE than "aware but not fully aware."
- He has outdated and dangerous ideas of what makes for good football. "Toughness" and "hearing football" put the players in harm's way during practice. Discipline is necessary, but not sufficient, for a winning football team.
- His future-state planning was horrible. He and Borges staked the entire future of Michigan's QB situation on the assumption that Shane Morris would work out. And then forgot to coach Morris once he got here.
- His ignorance of Denard's abilities led to continued regression on the offensive side of the football. And his continued insistence that "we just need to execute better" ignored real, solvable issues. Every time there was a bye week, it seemed like we came back with worse game planning and a "let's try a pro style offense with Denard Robinson" mentality.
- I ALMOST understand switching Gardner to receiver. But he and his staff forgot that you have to have a backup QB. Between failing to coach Bellomy and then yanking Gardner around in 2012...yeah that's not good planning.
- Benching Gardner during 2014 in favor of Morris, for "motivational" reasons, is unconscionable. Between the whole "not assigning captains" thing and THAT, Hoke showed horrible leadership.
Hoke isn't completely incompetent when it comes to coaching. Sure, he wasn't ready for the spotlight, and he's as much of a victim of Dave Brandon as anyone can be.
But I wouldn't want him anywhere near a football program if I was an AD.