OT - Avoid Confrontation or Call the Person/Group Out

Submitted by Bo Harbaugh on September 4th, 2022 at 2:37 PM

This is a bit off topic but want to get the opinion of the board - assuming a bunch or most of you have been to games and watched games in public places.

I was at a bar yesterday in Miami watching college football games. It was a generally pleasant experience with a bunch of TV's, good food (burgers, wings), and a nice staff.

However, there was one group of loud, obnoxious folks who showed up (which can often happen with liquor flowing), and the language being thrown around was pretty awful/disgusting imo.

For reference the group was about 5 deep, all male - looked like 4 whites and maybe a Latino.

The N-bombs were flowing non-stop, and not even in the yay go team (nice play bro) way.  During the Florida game they were calling players c*nts and the N-bomb non stop along with monkey references and generally all the gross shit you could imagine.

I've been at football and basketball games as well where fans do the same to both the opposing and and home team.  I've said stfu in those situation often, as most fans are generally just as annoyed by this behavior.

Question for the board - I know it's free speech and all, but how do you handle the situation when it gets pretty disgusting.  I'm not one for confrontation, but this pretty much ruined my Saturday CFB day and was upsetting to my gf and other friend and wife that were with us.  We simply told the management and moved on to another bar.

TLDR:  How do you all handle assholes (often drunk, racist, or simply moronic) at a game or in a bar setting when the language gets really offensive?

Blue@LSU

September 4th, 2022 at 2:44 PM ^

I'm completely in favor of confronting people that are displaying obviously racist behavior. Dropping the N-word is not acceptable.

But in a situation like you were in yesterday, confronting them for their disgusting behavior probably could've escalated and been dangerous. The manager of the restaurant/bar should've dealt with the situation and told them to cut that shit out. If they continued, they should've been told to leave or been escorted out.

rob f

September 4th, 2022 at 2:49 PM ^

Exactly.

If the bar management doesn't want to proactively deal with such idiots, then the only sensible option for the other patrons there is to speak up to management first and then speak by using their feet, taking their business elsewhere.

Bo Harbaugh, you handled it correctly.

NotADuck

September 4th, 2022 at 2:50 PM ^

Exactly.  The possible escalation is the worst part and sounds pretty likely if your description of these gentlemen was accurate.  I might have made a comment to my server/manager while asking for the check and finding a new bar.  Either management would have done something about it or I would have just left.  It's not worth getting into a fight with a bunch of drunk idiots and winding up in the back of a police car, even if I was in the right.

gsquared2123

September 4th, 2022 at 2:45 PM ^

When confronted with extremely intoxicated (falling down, puking, etc.) folks there is no reasoning, and I avoid the confrontation.  This goes double when I have young children.  When there is less less alcohol nvolved I will ask people to tone down their language. Most people do modify their behavior when confronted with young ears, at least until they forget about it short while later.

DeepBlueC

September 4th, 2022 at 2:45 PM ^

You won't change assholes like that by confronting them directly. Tell the staff there that you're leaving and tell them why, since clearly the management is OK with that kind of behavior.  Post reviews of the place everywhere you can and describe exactly the kind of atmosphere that bar is OK with.  

joegeo

September 4th, 2022 at 2:46 PM ^

"The N-bombs were flowing non-stop, and not even in the yay go team (nice play bro) way." Wasn't aware there's a "yay go team" N-bomb. I think that would still just be an N-bomb.

It's not your bar, and you never know how people might react, especially drunk obnoxious people. I'd tell the bar management and let them handle it. If it's not taken care of quickly, I'd leave and let the management know why I'm leaving.

DeepBlueC

September 4th, 2022 at 2:52 PM ^

The bar management shouldn't even have to be told.  Based on the description, there's no way the bar staff didn't already know what was going on. If they didn't address that kind of behavior immediately, they were clearly just fine with it, and assumed the rest of their customers were too. 

denverblue

September 4th, 2022 at 2:46 PM ^

Curious, what exactly did you tell management? Just that they were saying what they were saying? I might have made it an either or proposition- tell management to either ask those folks to leave or that they'll lose your business for tolerating that bullshit.

To paraphrase Office Space and Michael Bolton, they're the assholes, you shouldn't have to leave

Edit: How did management react when you told them?

Bo Harbaugh

September 4th, 2022 at 2:56 PM ^

We were 1/2 way through our food and the first quarter of the UF game when these guys showed up. The language started to get disgusting by the middle to end of the 3rd quarter...after they had 3 quarters to get hammered.

We told the management once, and the staff went over.  Nothing changed, so we finished our food and drink and left midway through the 4th, and told the staff again that it was disgusting and that they shouldn't let that group continue to be served.  We found a hotel bar close by and manage to catch the end of the UF - Utah game and stayed through the first half of OSU-ND.

denverblue

September 4th, 2022 at 3:09 PM ^

Sounds like y'all did the right thing. And those folks are assholes, obviously, but if the staff couldn't put their foot down after they had been warned and kicked them out, then they're evidently assholes, too. The banality of evil, and "good men doing nothing" and all.

If you really wanted to go down the rabbit hole, I might start with reaching out to the establishment on Monday (their quietest day of the week), seeing if you can speak with an owner (or get up as high as you can) to let them know what happened (if the owner wasn't there, I would hope they would want to know)

And if they don't immediately rectify the situation by firing their manager, apologizing publicly on their social medias, and making amends to comp some future meals or what have you, then that's when I would bomb them on all their yelp and google reviews, could contact the local paper that best covers the food/bar scene, etc. And I understand the effort it takes to go down that road, too.

Edit: Also, if you make it to the "bombing/scorched earth" phase, post it on your own social medias, if you feel comfortable, let that shit go viral and let the establishment feel that whiplash. Be sure to tag the establishment along with some local media outlets, it'll gain traction and their uppance will come.

Dailysportseditor

September 5th, 2022 at 1:07 PM ^

I don't understand why its appropriate or sensible for innocent victims of inflammatory and abusive language to be forced to leave a sports bar.  The guilty parties need to be told by the management to stop their misbehavior or be kicked out.  If the management refuses to take action, take a video of the offensive speech and call 911 for the cops to deal with it.  Just leaving doesn't solve anything.  “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

1989 UM GRAD

September 4th, 2022 at 2:47 PM ^

As I've gotten older, I've become much more inclined to call people out on their bullshit.  Because, what's right is right.  What's wrong is wrong.

That being said, given that these people were likely drunk - and given that they were so open with their repulsive behavior - confronting them would've likely escalated in to an untenable situation. 

You did the right thing by alerting management and then leaving.  

Blue Vet

September 4th, 2022 at 2:53 PM ^

"so open with their repulsive behavior"

As Roy Wood, Jr. jokes, it's harder to tell who's a racist now because they don't say that stuff in public any more. Joke or not, people know it's not acceptable to use the n-word in public.

So the fact that they were so blatant about it makes it sound as if they were seeking a confrontation. 

Sam1863

September 5th, 2022 at 6:35 AM ^

As I've gotten older, I've become much more inclined to call people out on their bullshit.  Because, what's right is right.  What's wrong is wrong.

You're absolutely right in principle. But as I've gotten older, I've gotten into the habit of asking myself this important question: "And then what will happen?"

If I tell these dickheads to settle down and knock it off, what will be their reaction? Will they take this admonition from a total stranger well, and follow his direction?

Of course not. It will be throwing gas on the fire. Because dickheads gonna dickhead. And I know this from my youth, when I did call out such people a couple of times. It never ended well.

The best course of action is a firm word with the management, telling them why you're leaving to spend your money somewhere else. I'd also ask them what kind of clientele they wish to cater to, just so you know if you should ever give their establishment another try.

Money talks. And when they see money walking out the door, they're more likely to listen.

MMBbones

September 4th, 2022 at 2:58 PM ^

Okay. I hope honesty doesn't get me negbanged....well, I don't care about points, so be honest with your response....

I was at an establishment a few years ago, drinking alone, and watching Michigan play poorly against Wisconsin, ultimately losing and ruining my entire week. I dropped an f-bomb twice, loudly, with no additional baggage, just the f-bomb.

The manager came to me and said, kindly but directly, that I just couldn't do that.

I apologized, he accepted it (even though, ironically, he was a Wisconsin grad), and I quietly drank myself into further oblivion as the good guys lost. Then I went home and was a jerk to be around for the night because Michigan lost and I still haven't figured out how to handle Michigan losses like a responsible adult should...

Point: That manager handled me appropriately. I frequented the place many times since out of respect, and we have become good friends.

Edit: Oops! Didn't mean to post this as a response. It should just be tagged on the bottom. Sorry.

 

Chris in Cleveland

September 4th, 2022 at 2:52 PM ^

I had a similar experience at the Purdue -PSU game on Thursday night… such great fans on both sides but a dicey situation in the stands with 2 pass out drunk dudes above us yelling the same type stuff.  Thankfully no kids were around. Feeling a bit outnumbered and just below him  I didn’t say anything  but after spilling his beer and passing out he left by halftime…

olm_go_blue

September 4th, 2022 at 2:54 PM ^

Unless you are rolling really deep or are very large/jacked and don't mind getting punched in the face, complaining to management and moving is usually the best approach.

More often than not, people like you described have nothing to lose and don't care about a simple assault charge from punching you in the face. Meanwhile you could get a broken jaw or teeth knocked out. I grew up in semi rural Michigan and ran into this quite a bit. I've stopped going to the bars there when I'm back around.

You aren't going the change them, so it's really just confrontation. I know the hope is that if you say something they may stop making remarks like that in public, but I doubt that is the case. If they are saying those th8ngs to someone directly, that's a different story and more complicated.

MRunner73

September 4th, 2022 at 2:54 PM ^

Make sure that your group outnumbers their group by 2 to 1 and 3 to 1 would be better. The bar management should have done a better job at handling obnoxious folks and should prepare for that in the future.

You all did the right thing by going to another bar.

RAH

September 5th, 2022 at 12:32 AM ^

Getting into a bar brawl, even if you outnumber the other group 3 or 4 to 1, is a very very bad idea. People do not know how easy it is to sustain a serious injury in a brawl. Getting your sinuses caved in, some teeth knocked out, broken jaw, broken knee, can happen even if none of the parties are actually trying to seriously injure the others. And if you go down there are plenty of people willing to kick you in the head or curb stomp your knee. Sure you might come through without any serious injuries but the stupid to take the risk.

brad

September 4th, 2022 at 2:55 PM ^

If you're in someone else's home or establishment and you start confronting people, you will become part of the problem.  You could bring this extremely offensive behavior to the attention of the bar ownership and just wait for the idiots to be kicked out.  Did that not work?

If not, I would accept that you're not going to fix anyone in this situation and just find someplace else.  Miami is full of great bars and happy-enough people, as is pretty much every town.

CRISPed in the DIAG

September 4th, 2022 at 2:58 PM ^

Film and post their bs. Every community has a local facebook group (like "Overheard in Redneckville" or something) or hashtag it on the Twitter machine. 

The internet has to be good for something. 

wildbackdunesman

September 4th, 2022 at 2:58 PM ^

I've never experienced people using the N word in public like that. I am surprised the establishment didn't try to squash it.

Perhaps if it ever happens again, ask the wait staff to do something about it.

softshoes

September 4th, 2022 at 2:59 PM ^

Where were the staff? Much as you want to confront them it is their job. If they won't throw them out then it's not a place to visit. I would never go back to be honest.

evenyoubrutus

September 4th, 2022 at 3:16 PM ^

Typically the things that ruin my day are events like my kitchen igniting into flames or my child dying or my truck not starting. If my day was ruined by overhearing people being assholes I'd probably need some help with my priorities. Oh actually that did happen and I sought help and I'm doing better. I appreciate your concern.

 

Bo Harbaugh

September 4th, 2022 at 3:11 PM ^

Do you have a wife or gf?  It's one thing for me to be annoyed/disgusted while at the establishment and then move on with life - confrontation or not.

It's another thing if you convince your girl to come watch football with you, have her getting just as disappointed and disgusted, and then have to go to another place on the fly, and see her upset and wanting to talk about what happened for the next few hours. 

I was pissed, but also not the only person there.  This may be a difficult concept to understand, but sometimes we are also concerned with how others with us are affected or upset by a given situation.

HAIL-YEA

September 4th, 2022 at 3:28 PM ^

What does having a wife or gf have to do with anything here. Are her feelings somehow more valid then yours or anyone else?

The fact is this, you are out in public, and you don't know any of those people. If the bar management allowed it to continue, the only reasonable option is to leave. 

You seem to be upset that you could not go to them and shut them up, luckily enough you are smart enough to have not tried that though. Actions have consequences for all, I am sure at some point in their lives, that kind of behavior will get their teeth kicked in...just as you confronting them 1 on 5 might have gotten yours. The world is still not a civilized as many people think, the best thing to do in that situation is to leave and forget they exist. 

KO Stradivarius

September 4th, 2022 at 3:01 PM ^

It amazes me how nowadays there are people in society who will either beat the shit out of someone and/or kill them over something as minor as an argument.  All it takes is one unhinged individual and you are history.  It's not worth it to confront people anymore.  EDIT: This my be the reason why the manager was reluctant to say anything to them.  

getsome

September 4th, 2022 at 4:11 PM ^

sadly thats always been the case, its not just nowadays.  human nature.  1st man picked up a rock and hit 2nd man with it and all that.  seems to have accelerated though with higher rates of alcohol/drug use, lack of purpose, mental illness, etc.  

as you say its not worth risking altercations unless its something thatll truly haunt you.  most people would like to silence jerks mouthing off but we know those situations are highly variable.  different story if someones being assaulted - step in, and if youre not capable, try to even the odds first. do what you can. 

shame all bars dont have 8 oz gloves available to settle disputes

IAMNOTMAIZEN

September 4th, 2022 at 3:04 PM ^

I’ll buck the trend here and say that unless you’re comfortable with this becoming more widespread, confrontation is necessary. I’m not saying you need walk up to them and start banging heads but some sort of action needs to be done to call these people out because while you say monkey chants and racial epithets are common in sporting events and sports bars, I had never seen something like that 5-10 years ago. 

Bigotry is a cancer and it spreads like wildfire and takes over otherwise good people and gives them free reign to hurt unsuspecting others without they themselves realizing the repercussions of their actions until it’s too late.

If people don’t speak up, if people don’t humiliate Nazis in public, you run the risk of tacitly approving such sentiments and allow them to fester. Fair enough if you feel physically vulnerable enough at a bar to even shout at them, but at some point you have to be involved in this fight in an aggressive manner.

 

Thank you for sharing this story OP, and I’m not criticizing your actions or suggesting a physical ‘fight’ is what’s needed or that I would have the guts to do what needs to be done. I just think that, yes, aggressive confrontation is needed. 

Bo Harbaugh

September 4th, 2022 at 3:20 PM ^

Not going to lie....

Part of me wanted to call up some bigger friends in the area and have these guys dragged out on their asses.

The other part of me didn't want to be the cause of my friends getting arrested or getting shot or stabbed if one of these guys was carrying.

I do believe if I was rolling with like 6 male friends the outcome could have been very different - and if my black friend who played football at Iowa State was with us - this was going down no matter how many of us there were. 

So yeah, part of me feel a bit like a coward here, not going to lie.