NCAA with another proposal to remain relevant
So the NCAA thinks schools are going to cooperate to avoid post season ban instead of saying nothing and getting no penalty.
NCAA proposal: Schools could avoid postseason ban with cooperation
Counter proposal to NCAA: piss off.
I believe there should be a national oversight apparatus to insure integrity and a level playing field. That precludes the NCAA which has neither integrity nor an interest in a level playing field.
Like it is in 1000 other aspects of life. Cooperate with folks and things tend to go easier.
As for the NCAA and their relevancy --- until someone else creates an organization that runs National Championships in 30+ sports (there never HAS been an official NCAA tournament for D-1A/FBS Football, of course), their relevancy is fairly assured. I'd argue the NCAA does a fairly good job running the vast majority of National Championship tournaments across the sports & divisions.
Why would anyone cooperate with the NCAA? Those who cooperate have historically gotten screwed, while those who don't cooperate get a victory in court.
Is that really true?
I suppose this is only one data point, but it's arguably the most prominent data point in recent history. As regards "my" school, back in July 2012 Penn State signed the NCAA consent decree and didn't go to court. Many PSU fans wanted the school to fight the NCAA, but I disagreed and felt cooperating ("cooperating" = "not fighting the consent decree" in this case) was the right decision. And the sanctions did wind up getting reduced a couple years later.
Some fans seem repeatedly stunned that Michigan abides by the rules of the organization of which it is a voluntary member.
Yep.
A break-off from the NCAA could work --- but it would have to be ~ 60 schools, at minimum, and all at once.
Even if the SEC and B1G broke off --- that's not enough. Take away football, which operates their Championship outside the NCAA framework anyway, and there's no sport --- not even wrestling, baseball or hockey --- where a "B1G + SEC champion" would be viewed as a legitimate "National Champion."
SEC & B1G breaking off at once is enough to destroy the NCAA. Thats like 90% of the teams most people care about + almost all of the power players in one move.
Sprinkle in a few others like UNC, ND and its over.
- 3 of the last 10 College World Series champions weren't B1G or SEC teams (I'm counting UCLA in 2013 as a B1G team here).
- 10 of the last 10 men's Final Four champions weren't B1G or SEC teams.
- 6 of the last 10 women's Final Four champions weren't B1G or SEC teams.
- 10 of the last 10 Frozen Four champions weren't B1G or SEC teams.
- 3 of the last 10 Women's volleyball champions weren't B1G or SEC teams (I'm counting Texas as a SEC team here).
- 8 of the last 10 Men's lacrosse champions weren't B1G or SEC teams (thank you Maryland).
Now, yes --- the last 17 (!!!) wrestling National Champions were B1G teams. But for everything else --- and those are pretty major sports I'm listing above there --- how can you credibly call a "B1G + SEC Champion" a "National Champion"?
One benefit of NCAA membership for Michigan (and any other B1G/SEC school) --- an NCAA National Championship is universally viewed as a credible National champion - because it's truly on a National level.
I didn't look very hard, but per this graphic, football comprises about half of the revenue at FBS schools. (Seems ballpark accurate.) And at the football factories, it's probably a greater percentage, in both revenue and especially in profits.
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Football could break off by itself.
April 23rd, 2024 at 11:31 AM ^
SEC and Big10 breaking off is enough to destroy the NCAA. That doesn't mean that their new entity would be viable. They would both lose out for a few years, and a bunch of stuff would never be the same after.
You are grossly over-exaggerating the place of the SEC and B1G in the world of college sports. If they pulled out of the NCAA Basketball tournament, only the fans of those two conferences would even notice. Pulling out of the FBS for football would take away their TV revenues, but since they don't share that revenue with anyone else, who would notice? The other conferences with their crappy TV contracts would still get those crappy TV contracts, and they'd only miss the few millions they get for body bag games.
The NCAA is a bunch of schools. Not all schools even belong, and if fewer schools belonged that wouldn't change anything at the NCAA level other than reducing the level of whining.
I don't think it's as simple as that.
The Big Ten and SEC would have a big pile of money and TV partners willing to pony up more for the right additional content.
What happens if they start their own postseason basketball, baseball and softball tournaments and invite schools from other conferences? Are those schools all going to decline those lucrative offers because the NCAA wants them to?
The future would be unlikely to see the Big Ten and SEC simply standing on their own against the NCAA. They will invite other conferences or schools to join as affiliate members. They would get to enjoy some of the spoils, without getting the voting power they have now. Other schools will join for the money and in the hope that they will eventually become full members. The Big Ten and SEC get to run things as they see fit, without having to deal with smaller schools outvoting them.
If you seriously believe that Louisville and Villanova are going to skip the NCAA Basketball tournaments to play some games against B1G and SEC teams, you are nuts. The NCAA basketball tournament is the gold standard for sports tournaments.
I'd love to see the member institutions hold the NCAA accountable to at least follow their own rules and demonstrate professionalism.
The leaks and comments coming from the NCAA knowing full well that Michigan couldn't respond was bullshit.
Unfortunately, institutions as we have seen don't give a shit about fairness as long as they aren't the ones in the bullseye.
Penn State really want more publicity on how they enabled and protected Jerry? They might've won over NCAA, but their loss would've been much bigger. The choice of co-operation was not really football related.
Michigan loves to cooperate for some reason.
April 22nd, 2024 at 11:39 PM ^
And, the NCAA is incentivizing members that may be in the crosshairs to rat out other members.
What could go wrong ?
I'd argue the NCAA does a fairly good job running the vast majority of National Championship tournaments across the sports & divisions.
From a fan perspective, or an athlete perspective?
Both.
I know, I know, people will bring up the "why are we playing college hockey regionals in the middle of nowhere in front of nobody, that serves nobody!" --- but the NCAA isn't the exclusive determinant of tournament structure. The member schools and member coaches also have a hand there.
Running the tournaments, though, is primarily the NCAA. It's a lot of tournaments, when you think about it (~ 20 sports across 3 divisions and 2 genders --> that's about 120 a year, all of them occurring from November to June, an 8-month part of the calendar). And they generally go well.
Give me few billion dollars and I'm sure I can run tournaments too
Sure --- but could you, or anybody else, do it as effectively and efficiently? THAT is the question.
The NCAA brought in ~ $1,170MM ($1.17B) in revenue in FY 2023. Most of that from selling TV rights, the other big chunk coming from the Championships themselves (ticket sales, clothing sales, etc).
It "only" cost $283MM for the NCAA to actually run and adminster the tournaments. NCAA management expenses + distributions to D2 & D3 schools were "only" $215MM. So there's a lot left over - namely ~ $670MM left over. That $$$ all gets distributed back to the D1 schools.
https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/ncaa/finance/2022-2023NCAAFIN_FinancialStatement.pdf
The $670MM is a LOT of $$$. Folks can complain about the NCAA, but it's a fact that the member schools do receive a lot of benefits from their NCAA membership. Namely (1) that they actually organize the tournaments, (2) adminster them, (3) sell TV & marketing rights and (4) run the business such that a lot of $$$ is left over for the membership.
If you're going to propose eliminating the NCAA --- if you're going to say "you can run the tournaments too" --- if you're going to call the NCAA "irrelevant" --- then that's the standard you have to prove you can beat. Make the D1 schools more than $670MM.
Until I can get an ice cream cake that doesn't melt in the lobby, I'd say the NCAA does a relatively shitty job of running things.
I do agree that the NCAA does a good job running National Championship tournaments.
That's all they should do. Disband their investigation arm. They've been bad at it before NIL essentially threw the "rules" out the window.
I'm not sure if it would work (it would probably bring its own unanticipated set of issues) .......... but my solution would be (1) NCAA runs the tournaments while also (2) setting overall rules & regulations (e.g., number of years of eligibility, minimum academic requirements, etc).
And then it's the conferences that (3) investigate and (4) enforce*.
At least the conferences are much smaller than the NCAA. They're only managing ~ a dozen schools, as opposed to the ~ 1000 under the NCAA umbrella.
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*Independent schools still exist, of course - so I guess the NCAA remains the investigation and enforcement entities for them.
I'm not sure any sane person would want Teenie Petite running any "investigations" (doesn't believe they are necessary) or in charge of "enforcement" (pulls shit out of his ass to justify breaking his own rules). But I don't think you can paint all conferences with the B1G's stinky brush, so I could see restricting the NCAA's oversight to the independents and the B1G schools.
In my experience, no school has done more to cooperate with the NCAA and self impose punishment than Michigan, and what has it gotten us? Banners in storage, ten years of basketball irrelevance, burgergate and the Harbaugh witch hunt.
Don't forget the NCAA finding major violations for Stretchgate after we literally invited them to investigate.
Did the NCAA find "major violations" for Stretchgate? I think that you should refresh your memory.
I thought the “schools that don’t cooperate do better” thing was kind of put to bed as bogus fan fiction. Most schools really do cooperate. Read the Tennessee punishment and it’s clear that it’s a pretty sever punishment and they also are noted for cooperating. Yet many say they didn’t really get punished and that’s because they didn’t cooperate.
https://www.ncaa.org/news/2023/7/14/media-center-hundreds-of-violations-occurred-in-tennessee-football-program-over-3-seasons.aspx
"Tennessee's cooperation throughout the investigation and processing of this case was exemplary by any measure," the panel said.
Tennessee apparently learned their lesson cause the next time the NCAA came after them, they went straight to court.
Warde absolutely loves cooperating with the NCAA
Every time he does he gets a new title.
Vichy Warde?
I don't think he 'cooperates' so much, but he certainly does try to appease them at every step. Cooperate with BurgerGate? Sure, but hey, here's 3 games without Harbaugh before you even finish any (sham) 'investigation' to prove that we're with you in this.
Speak to an organization with no actual authority about things which you are not necessarily obligated to divulge? Why would anyone do this?
To remain in charge of the College Football Playoff Committee.
But they’re not
April 22nd, 2024 at 11:36 PM ^
I think he meant Warde personally.
I don’t necessarily agree with the CFP and the selection committee, etc.
But, I do think the NCAA’s level of involvement in the CFP is perfect.
Could they even enforce a CFP ban? I was under the impression the CFP is independent.
25 - correct. The CFP has nothing to do with the NCAA and vice versa.
So, let’s keep it that way…
I really hope coach Harbaugh writes a book 20 years from now to spill the tea on all the BS of the last four years.
I really hope he waits, maybe, two years. Lets face it - he's not coming back to coach Michigan ever again. Write the damn book now.
Extortion.
NCAA death by a thousand cuts
Or losing lawsuits
I won't be happy until the ncaa is reduced to running a cellphone screen repair kiosk in a dying mall
Is this called "The Michigan Rule"?
Never cooperate if the organization investigating is asking you to "admit that you lied". Also sign of a witch hunt.