Let's talk about Ohio State

Submitted by Bodogblog on August 25th, 2019 at 9:36 PM

I believe they go 9-3 at best this year.  I'm going to provide some rationale and some clips and many will say it's wrong, everything works out for them.  Based on the last 15 years, that's entirely rational.  But there was once a man named Cooper.  The need for salt mine levels of caution here is obvious, of course, I'm a guy on the internet, what the hell do I know. 

Head coach: Everyone know this – Ryan Day is an internal hire who independent of that is not nearly qualified for the head job at OSU.  “Lincoln Riley,” they say.  “Luke Fickell,” I say.  Look at this Wikipedia page, it’s not impressive.  Brilliant game plan vs. Michigan last year, guided Haskins to all-world numbers, led them to 3-0.  1) Conceded, 2) Was that Haskins becoming Haskins or Day helping Haskins become Haskins?, 3) who cares, Meyer was still in charge of the team.  Make your own judgments, but the ultimate test: if Harbaugh had left for the NFL and Michigan hired Day, would you have been happy?

Defensive coordinator: Mattison is an odd hire.  Rumor is that Day wanted Brown and was rebuffed, so Meyer engineered this move.  Great recruiter, good DL coach.  Well he’s only co-DC, they say, Day brought in a guy named Jeff Hafley to be co-DC with him.  That guy must be a comer, young genius DC who will be the real brains behind the operation.  Here’s that guy’s resume:

Meh.  “He’s an NFL guy”, they say.  I mean, so were a lot of guys.  Hoke was, after the Michigan debacle.  So was Greg Robinson, before it.  And it doesn’t look like he’s really the co-DC at all, he’s just running the secondary.  Maybe Hafley is just taking a true year of being babysat by Mattison and observing before he takes over more control in 2020, but right now he’s just sitting on the couch watching a movie.  This is Mattison’s scheme, full stop.  Is that great?  He’s installing a Viper, which they’ve unimaginatively re-named the “Bullet”.  Mattison didn’t run a Viper when he was last DC, which means he’s picking it up from Don Brown.  So this is not Mattison running his 4-3 Under/Over that he ran at Michigan, but him running another guy’s defense.  Did he pick the whole thing up in two years?  I’m sure he did, he’s smart, and experienced.  He’s 70.  Still, it seems rational to wonder if Mattison will go back to what he knows, a 4-3.  And what do you know, look here.  As the article states, it seems like they might be using a 4-3 more than the 4-2-5.  Who knows, it’s Fall camp, take everything with a grain of salt.  But you’ve already moved your 2nd best safety to Viper, you can’t put him back at safety 3 weeks into camp. 

In this year’s HTTV, an Eleven Warriors writer gives a glowing review of the entire team, including the defense.  He draws a direct comparison of this Mattison/Hafley co-DC marriage to that of the co-OC arrangement between Kevin Wilson and Ryan Day: an old guy / young guy combination of best of both worlds.  That seems a logical comparison.  But a much better one is OSU’s co-DC arrangement last year: Greg Schiano and Alex Grinch, the very same old guy / young guy combo.  By all accounts it was a disaster. 

Once again make your own judgments, but the ultimate test remains: if Brown had left for Maryland and Michigan hired Mattison and Hafley, would you have been happy?

Defense: You know it wasn’t great last year.  Big plays everywhere.  One of the worst in recent OSU memory.  Well, all those players are back.  Except for Bosa and the excellent Dremont Jones, who together accounted for 14 points against TCU and the win.  Bosa was out after that game, yes, Jones was excellent all year (13 TFL's and an insane 9 sacks from the DT position).  Was the problem scheme or players?  The answer is both.  

This is the Maryland game, and OSU was awful against them.  It’s the 2nd play from scrimmage.  Look at the bottom of the screen, #3 Damon Arnette the CB.  He very obviously has contain on this play.  He blows it spectacularly.  This is the 11th game of the season.  Then he completely gives up in a DGAF trot almost immediately.  Also see #25 Brendon White, the safety behind him (he has since been moved to Viper), taking a really terrible angle as the last line of defense (ignore his lack of speed in pursuit, because Macfarland is a burner).  Arnette is terrible here, unforgivably bad.  He’s back as the starter. 
 

https://youtu.be/2czvgPJnQj0?t=22


"WTF Damon?" 
 

https://youtu.be/d0KRLoN-oNg?t=121


Same game, just a few plays later, Arnette #3 at the bottom and White #25 as the safety.  Understandably, Maryland says hey, why not try that shit again?  Arnette says fuuuuuuck no I’m not losing contain and gets laughably wide.  White has to fill the alley.  There’s no one behind him and he knows it.  Macfarland is good but come on.
 

https://youtu.be/2czvgPJnQj0?t=139


Maryland.  Watch another returning player, LB Malik Harrison #39, bottom of the screen between the DE and DT.  Maryland will mess with you, but this guy is following a motion man who’s running into 4 of his fellow defenders, and he’s completely abandoning his gap to do so.  The Maryland lineman they brought over to block him doesn’t even have anything to do.  People get got, it happens, but it happened way too much for OSU last year.  This isn’t Schiano’s fault.
 

https://youtu.be/d0KRLoN-oNg?t=2421


Maryland.  This is most definitely Schiano’s fault.  Watch the DE and LB (#39, Harrison) at the top of the screen.  They’re switching roles.  For some ungodly reason.  The DE drifts in to play middle gap, the LB has to run to the edge to contain.  I’m sure there are reasons to do this.  All of them are lost on these players.  What this created was a DE playing LB and a LB playing DE, and neither knows how to, you know, do that.  Watch Harrison in particular: he gets to the outside and contains, but he needs to fight off that block.  Contain itself is not the goal if the defense is in that bad of shape on the play – you need to get off and make a play on the man.
 

https://youtu.be/2czvgPJnQj0?t=208


OSU spring game.  This is probably unfair but I'm making an assumption based on what I see: this LB doesn't fully understand what holding the edge means.  Watch Harrison #39 here, same guy from the clip above, top LB on the screen.  He comes over and takes on the block in exactly the same way: he gets contain, but doesn’t squeeze the hole or get his hands on the ballcarrier or even slow him down.  It’s actually hard to tell who’s the blocker and who’s the defender there.  You have to squeeze or spill there, because the offense would love you to eat this block. 
 

https://youtu.be/ZzKpWWfS8W4?t=1693

 
Maryland.  Let's talk about #3 Damon Arnette again, at the bottom of the screen.  He’s going against a freshman wide receiver who had 9 catches for 148 yards last year.  Here are 60 of them.  Mr. Gattis, throw deep all day all downs please.
 

https://youtu.be/2czvgPJnQj0?t=478


PSU.  #3 CB at the top of the screen, absolutely pancaked by the TE.
 

https://youtu.be/4yL0BGJjoMY?t=459


TCU.  Arnette #3 at the bottom of the screen, obviously holding and interfering with the WR, gets flagged.  This is a constant issue with Arnette, and the multitudes of OSU fans that hate him will tell you all about it.  No one has been able to supplant him this Fall.  He has talent, he could certainly turn it around.  Not likely.  I bet someone else is starting over him by mid-year.  This is a Hafley project, so watch this closely for clues on his coaching ability. 
 

https://youtu.be/dvDs36SPO7E?t=498


TCU.  A twofor on the other two OSU LB’s besides Harrison: Borland and Werner.  They are fine and just that.  Borland #32 is a slow Desmond Morgan who plays ILB, Werner #20 is a fast but blockable one who plays OLB (on the hash).  We loved Morgan because he quality player and a thumper on a Michigan defense emerging from the desert.  But you wouldn’t expect him to show up on a defense that recruits the way OSU does.  Much less two of him.  On this play ILB Borland is simply not athletic enough to make a difference, OLB Werner gets de-cleated by a 5’9” 180 lb. freshman slot WR.  Sure it’s blindside hit, but that’s the job today at OLB – you have to know that’s coming because you get cracked all day.  Both are fine, they tackle people and hold their gaps and they’re fine.  They’re the 3rd/4th  best LB’s for Iowa, but they’re playing for Ohio State.
 

https://youtu.be/dvDs36SPO7E?t=412


TCU.  Another for the LBs.  It’s only a 6 yard gain, but you see what they are: jet sweep and #20 Werner blocked to the ground, and #32 Borland just doesn’t have the speed to make a difference on the play.
 

https://youtu.be/dvDs36SPO7E?t=672


Maryland.  Don’t watch this, because it’s a B1G title going up in smoke.  #20 OLB Werner has the inside slot, #4 S Fuller has the outside slot.  Not sure if they were supposed to switch or stay, but they both follow the inside man.  This is a wide open WR, not even covered.  This is scheme because these guys don’t know what to do.  Both return this year.  This missed throw is also the difference between LOL Ohio State and Harbaugh being the no-doubt leader in the B1G coming into 2019.  This is Meyer you deserve it fuck off into the sunset karma vs. another year of pain for Michigan fans.  When people say “It doesn’t matter, you HAVE TO MAEK PLAYZZZ AND WIN THE GAMEEZZZ” remember this play.  Did OSU make a play here?  Is this MAEK PLAYZZ?  They lucked into a win against a 5-7 football team.  They did nothing here.  In fact they did everything wrong and deserved to lose.  This is a blind universe.  There is no such thing as love. 
 

https://youtu.be/2czvgPJnQj0?t=665


Wide Receivers:  The best ones are gone to the NFL.  You know they had crazy speed, but they were also absolutely fantastic blockers.  Talent remains, but not to last year’s levels. 

Offensive Line: OL: Who knows?  They lose 4 starters.  Munford is back at LT and he’s OK.  He could take a leap in his second year starting but otherwise he’s just fine.  They get all-B1G Jonah Jackson from Rutgers, which in Draftgeddon they mention grad transfer interior OL don’t usually work out.  I don’t know the reason for this, but I’ll take that as a point of risk.  They have a new Center nobody’s seen, highly rated, first year.  No idea.  The other guard is Wyatt Davis, highly rated, did play two games last year and looked pretty good.  Then then the right tackle is a kid named Bowen, who’s been off the depth chart for two years due to injury.  Will he be good?  Who knows?  He was playing guard in the spring.  That’s not a lot of reliability on the offensive line.  The back-up tackles are Josh Alabi (from Cass Tech, the kid who brought Weber with him to OSU) and Nicholas Petit-Friere (a guy Michigan recruited hard): the former is a 5th year senior who neither the coaches nor the fans ever want to see the field, and the latter is a redshirt freshman who’s not ready based on his performance in the spring game. 

Fields/QB:  I don’t know, neither does anyone else.  What we might know, based on what seems to be consensus insider info:

  • Super recruit, but only started one year of high school football
  • Didn’t do much at UGA, rumored to not have studied the playbook much
  • Did not have a great spring at OSU, struggled picking up the offense (understandable, it’s known as a difficult offense to pick up)
  • Did not have a great first two weeks of camp (in the team’s first scrimmage, two pick 6’s were thrown, and since no insiders would say he threw them, you know exactly who threw them)
  • Had a great 3rd week of Fall camp and is named the starter

So if you’re keeping count, that’s multiple weeks of spring ball bad, two weeks of Fall camp bad, and 1 week of Fall camp good.  That’s not great math for the Buckeyes.  I’m going to guess they simplified everything, had him run more, and turned the offense into screen city in the 3rd week.  That allowed Fields to win the job, but it won’t win OSU 10 games.  Watch for the coming of screen city during the season – they had to break out in the PSU game last year in order to win, even with Haskins and those WR's.  Do they have to resort to it against Cincinnati?  If yes they’re in trouble this year.  And of course you know the back-ups are QBs unplayable.  And while Dobbins is a very good back, a back-up at RB hasn't really emerged. 

 

Summary.  Their DL is excellent, and their #1 corner very good.  Fuller their #1 safety is probably very good.  The negative things I've clipped above are selective to support my view, and may be biased in terms of what I want to see.  All those players of course made good plays during the season.  But I believe it captures some of the why on Defense.  I've droned on long enough.  I don't see 10 wins here.  I see a loss to Michigan, MSU (Fields will have real trouble against that defense) and at least one of @Nebraska/@NW/Wiscy/Cinci/PSU.  If they have to run Fields to have a functional offense and he's injured early in the year for an extended period, 7-5 is on the table. 

Maize and Blue AF

August 25th, 2019 at 11:36 PM ^

I did find it odd that OSU would hire a HC with only 3 games of interim HC experience under his belt..  We'll soon find out just how much of OSU's offensive success was because of Ryan Day.  We'll also see if he can handle to rigors of being a HC, since he's never done it before.

UESWolverine

August 25th, 2019 at 11:38 PM ^

I think it's as simple as a new QB in a new system with a new Head Coach. Simple math for any team says it's not going to work out. We all know that. Even they know that. 

MGoatBlue12

August 25th, 2019 at 11:40 PM ^

Great stuff OP. I agree that they have to take a step back because they’re losing arguably the best coach in the history of the big ten and one of the top 5 of all time. How do you replace him and not take a step back. I guess what worries me is just the overwhelming confidence that permeates their locker room, program and university when it comes to beating us. Even when they sent 6-7 with Luke fickell they still almost beat us when our team was an 11-2 sugar bowl championship team with 15 5th year seniors. There’s something to be said for playing freely and with confidence when it comes to sports, especially in football when you have a locker room of 105 guys that all need to buy in and believe that they’re good enough to execute and win. We saw that last year in the horse shoe. 

LDNfan

August 26th, 2019 at 1:25 AM ^

One thing I find fascinating is the schematic convergence by thr 2 programmes on both sides of the ball. 

Can Mattison out Don Brown...Don Brown? Doubt it...but their strong Dline prob mask that against the vast majority of teams on their schedule. But if they don't have the personnel in the back 7 to run a D Brown scheme they could be vulnerable to the better O's in the conference. I also remember a lot of talk when D Brown came to UM that it is usually the 2nd year that a team really grasps his D. 

On the other side of the ball speedinspace is going to look much more like the OSU offense. But UM def has the weapons to pull it off at a very high level. Play calling experience is a potential issue though. 

saveferris

August 26th, 2019 at 7:53 AM ^

2003?  John Navarre over Craig Krenzel?  I guess you could also make the argument that Chad Henne was a better QB than Troy Smith in 2005 and better than Todd Boeckman in 2007, but poor coaching decisions cost us The Game in 2005 and Henne's shoulder was in tatters in 2007.

Icehole Woody

August 26th, 2019 at 5:53 AM ^

How does Ohio State’s recruiting compare to Michigan?  IMO the Buckeyes are better still.  

How does the Buckeye’s development of recruits compare?  IMO Michigan is now a little better.

Bodogblog

August 26th, 2019 at 6:57 AM ^

I appreciate all the comments good and bad.  

One additional item of note: ESPN's FPI model has OSU with a projected win/loss total of 8.7 - 3.5.  

robo

August 26th, 2019 at 7:12 AM ^

First off , I do not Like OSU , but , they have a QB that will eat up just about every team they play .He was a 5 star and has experience and can run better than the last QB that killed us last year , so with all their on going talent , do not under estimate this team.

Bodogblog

August 26th, 2019 at 7:25 AM ^

One other additional note, that Bosa missed most of the season and Chase Young - unbelievably - was just as good.  I like Young as much or more than everyone else - he's very deserving of his potential #1 NFL pick chatter.  What this team does not have is another Chase Young on the roster.  If he went down for an extended period, for the first time in several years OSU would be playing without a first round level edge terror 

saveferris

August 26th, 2019 at 7:27 AM ^

This year's game is probably the most consequential of Harbaugh's tenure at Michigan.  Right now, Buckeye Nation just assumes that Day will continue the trend that was started by Tressel and continued under Meyer; but if Harbaugh delivers a defeat in Day's first year, that's a massive psychological blow to the aura of invincibility that has been built up over the past two decades.  Doubt will start to creep in.  The onus is on Michigan to just get over that hump.

Now that doesn't mean that Harbaugh will begin a streak of Tressel-like proportions over Day, that's probably not realistic, but a return to Schembechler-era competiveness (.500) would be a welcome development.  People who think that Day will wind up being John Cooper 2.0 are setting their expectations way too high.

BuckeyeChuck

August 26th, 2019 at 10:24 AM ^

Very true that the 2019 game carries with it a strong psychological edge for future seasons.

What you describe also sounds a lot like 2011. Hoke's first year post-RR, OSU's first year post-Tressel. The 2011 game was also supposed to be a psychological advantage for future seasons. So we never really know how the present affects the future until the future has become the past. (that sounded an awful lot more existential than I intended)

saveferris

August 26th, 2019 at 12:43 PM ^

The difference between 2019 and 2011 will likely be pregame expectations.  2011 OSU was reeling and came in a big underdog (and damn near pulled off an upset).  2019 OSU looks to be pretty good and The Game will in all likelihood feature a 0-2 loss Michigan versus a 0-2 loss OSU for the Division championship.

Panther72

August 26th, 2019 at 8:58 AM ^

If we consider the YPG production of Michigan and OSU over the past three years:

               Michigan                            OSU

2016       424.9    54th                      459.2   29th    We played close in the Game

2017       348.9   100th                     506      7th      11 point loss at home after Haskins enters

2018       419.5     41st                     535.7   2nd      With 5100 total air yrds  Nightmare game 

There are many other variables however, Haskins was the difference last two years.

From the 4th quarter in the Game 2017 through last year, the air yards exploded under Haskins in the spread but  the run blocking was down. 

  1. Green OL and Green QB doesn't spell Haskin-ish air yards of 2018. And if the run blocking  failed last year with a veteran line can we expect OSU to improve greatly with 4 new starters?
  2. Michigan needs closer offensive numbers to OSU as in 2016. If we could crack the top 15 it would be amazing. Go Blue!

Hail2UM83

August 26th, 2019 at 9:04 AM ^

I would love to see them go 9-3 or worse this year, however something tells me they will be just fine in November. Because they seem to be immune from that other shoe dropping. The unbridled arrogance these people have here is disgusting and holding back vomit is a daily occurrence for me. The mere insinuation they may struggle is like insulting their mother. They take deep offense to it. I mean we would too, so I have to be somewhat fair. In all honesty though, like I have seen many previous posts my opinion is the same. JUST. WIN. THE. GAME. No talking just win. I hope they fall off a cliff under Day, the seem to think that they have their Lincoln Riley, but being that his best win is TCU, It would only be fair to say the jury is still out on that one.

Perkis-Size Me

August 26th, 2019 at 10:27 AM ^

I know this has been said ad nauseum, but this year is the most important OSU game of Harbaugh's tenure. You will probably never catch a more "down" OSU team. The golden goose that is Urban Meyer is gone, Ryan Day is (at this point) unproven as a HC, and he's got a very talented, but very raw, unproven QB. We know he's an elite athlete, but can he throw in an offense predicated on passing the ball? My assumption is that by the time he comes to Ann Arbor, he will be able to. 

The Game is at home this year. You have a proven, senior QB, three NFL-caliber WRs, a great OL, an OC who will finally bring the offense into the 21st century, and for as much as you lost on defense, the defense is still run by one of the better DCs in America. 

If Harbaugh can't beat them now, I feel pretty confident in saying his program will be permanently and irreparably left behind by OSU. So uh....no pressure. 

BuckeyeChuck

August 26th, 2019 at 10:32 AM ^

  1. Nice diary, OP!
  2. 9-3 is indeed a realistic possibility. So is 12-0. So is 7-5.
  3. I too thought Mattison was a very odd hire. Wondered if the opportunity for insider info was a strong motivator for the hire.
  4. The supposed reversion back to the 4-3 does include the Bullet. So it's not a 4-2-5, the Bullet is considered a linebacker position. They may often be using a one-safety lineup with Fuller as the only safety: 3 CBs, 1 S, and the Bullet as a LB which results in a 4-3-4 but not a standard 4-3-4.
  5. A lot of the criticisms of the defense involve the Maryland game. Who do you think OSU was most practicing for during Maryland week? A: It wasn't Maryland.

Bodogblog

August 26th, 2019 at 11:27 AM ^

Thanks for the counterpoints. 

On 4., what I'm referring to is what's in the article: Mattison talked up Werner as being a great player, essentially saying the OLB is the bullet.  The conclusion they draw, and which I agree with, is that Mattison plans to use Werner more often than the bullet, meaning essentially a 4-3 (with him on the field with Borland and Harrison instead of White). 

5. Maryland was the game in which these things were most easily sussed out, or most egregious, or just most convenient.  As stated in the OP, I believe them to be representative of the problems on the defense throughout the season.  I had clips from other games, but had droned on long enough. Your point also may have had more weight if they hadn't been obliterated by a 6-7 Purdue team, and had a close game against 4-8 Nebraska, both of which didn't have a Michigan game on the horizon.  This is who the OSU team was last year. 

Magnum P.I.

August 26th, 2019 at 10:45 AM ^

I honestly believe that if OSU didn't have any coaches at all and just let the players do the prep and playcalling, they would go a minimum of 10-2. They have a roster of NFL talent playing against college kids. 

I'mTheStig

August 26th, 2019 at 10:49 AM ^

Ryan Day is an internal hire who independent of that is not nearly qualified for the head job at OSU. 

The hawtest of hawt takes here in a while... and by "hawt take", in the purest defintion of having an uninformed opinion.

 

BBQJeff

August 26th, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^

Day will prove to be a cross between Saban and Belichick and Fields will be a cross between Peyton Manning and Michael Vick.

Everything ALWAYS works out for OSU and we probably won't beat them again in my lifetime. 

Until things pan out differently in real time, this is where I see it in this rivalry.  

Arb lover

August 26th, 2019 at 11:48 AM ^

Man. I want what you're having. Really appreciate this though, sort of tempers the 11 warriors article. Even if the truth is somewhere in the middle, that's absolutely something we can live with.

I'd love to see Day do just well enough that they give him a contract extension, (10-2?) so OSU can take a dive into complete mediocrity well into the 2020's. 

Postage1

August 26th, 2019 at 2:27 PM ^

Ryan Day is one of the top offensive minds in all of Football . You will see from FAU on ,that this team is really really good .Much more talented then Michigan. Thank god the season is upon us so we can see if UM walks the walk this time

EThos92

August 26th, 2019 at 6:43 PM ^

I really don't see it.

They've still got a ton of talent all over the field. Day seems like a fairly competent offensive coach. Mattison is proven as a DC. Both of their lines seem like they'll be good, which is always a recipe for success. On our end, our offensive line should be competent but once again we have a concerning lack of depth/talent at tackle. And our D line is full of unproven players and isn't very deep either.

Blue Middle

August 26th, 2019 at 11:02 PM ^

Mattison is more capable than you’re giving him credit for. He’s engineered some great defenses including a national championship team. 

That said, virtually everything else you point out is true. It’s highly unlikely Day can replicate Meyer’s success. And their staff is not scary. But neither was Tressel’s.