I have nothing against LSU but I've gotta admit I've come to like Clemson. They've been completely dominant yet somehow still seem to end up underdogs every year. They've knocked Bama off multiple times and they make Ohio State their bitch, and I've gotta say it's really nice that those bastards get to experience what that feels like. Won't be upset if LSU takes it though.
Satterfield's greatest accomplishment thus far is just being pretty good (not elite) at App State.
Matt Wells has done what? Had a couple of decent seasons in the Mountain West? Never really done anything that stands out at all.
Neither Clemson coordinator has ever been a head coach, so that's a complete unknown.
I think Fleck is the only one of that list that at this point it's even reasonable to believe has the potential to be a big time head coach. What he's done at Western and Minnesota has been pretty outstanding. But not anymore outstanding than what Jim Harbaugh's done in his career, and you guys think he sucks so...
Yes there's a huge difference between being a pretty good team that's trying to make it to the next level and being a bad team that doesn't have a clue.
And btw Michigan has beaten good teams under Harbaugh.
But it takes both the right qb's and offensive staff. Harbaugh could have done better on that front in his time at Michigan and I think he recognized that and handed the keys over to Gattis. I'm excited to see what he can do next year with McCaffrey. I think Dylan has a higher ceiling than Shea.
I agree with this take and it's why I never bought into the "OSU will take a step back" narrative either before last year or this one. Meyer's offensive approach, including his qb recruits, were actually a liability to his team by the time he came to OSU. His schtick had been figured out. But he's a master recruiter and they were just so damn talented across the board that they could still be really good despite that.
When I saw Dwayne Haskins drop that dime in the 2017 game I knew we were in trouble the next year. Now, their O Line play and linebackers in 2018 gave me some hope, but their O Line was nearly flawless against us, of course. And their defense was just mediocre instead of a disaster that gave up huge plays.
And of course I never believed we'd beat them in 2019. Not before or during the season.
All that being said, Michigan's QB play and offensive philosophy has also held them back under Harbaugh. Let's just hope Gattis is our Ryan Day/Lincoln Riley. Shea took a huge step throughout the season. A lot like Haskins did last year. Hopefully DMac balls out next season.
We'll still lose to Ohio State, but at least it can be a game and 11-1 with a trip to the Rose Bowl would be pretty fun.
I'll stop "shielding" for Harbaugh as soon as I get a straight answer from the anti-Harbaughs on who the hell you think is going to come to Michigan and take it to heights never before seen.
Feels like you guys engage in a ton of revisionism btw. I remember when Harbaugh was hired there was tons of hype, of course, but also a pretty consistent narrative that it was going to take 3-4 years to turn the sinking ship around. Most had Michigan pegged at about 7 wins in 2015. They win ten that year and by 2016 winning ten games is a disappointment and Harbaugh's a failure.
Sad to say a lot of you will probably think the same thing about Howard in a couple years if he can't make a final four by then. Lots of people calling for Beilein's head before that run they made in '13. Point is, most people don't know fucking shit and would see the program ran into the ground as they lash out over being disappointed about their own delusional expectations.
You know, my biggest concern going forward in regards to Harbaugh isn't that I think it would actually be likely that Michigan finds a better coach, but moreso that the media and dumb fan narrative surrpunding him will make it increasingly hard to win.
Even if he does a great job in making sure his team drowns out the noise and doesn't get mired in negative energy, it seems like the constant negative attention that he, and by extension the team, get whenever they lose a game could have an effect on recruiting going forward.
It seems like Michigan gets a lot of the negative effects of being an elite team without the obvious benefits of actually being one. I still think it's far more likely that a coaching change would go horrifically than make the program better though.
They should have been favored last year based on what we actually saw on the field but that's because Ohio State was underperforming for most of last year. But because they're so talented they can make mistakes all season and skate by then turn it on at the end and still end up 13-1, Big Ten and Rose Bowl champs. That's what having a master recruiter at a historical blue blood that only cares about winning football games gets you.
The talent gap is very significant. It's really not being overstated by anybody.
Look at the team composite talent rankings for this year. The gap between Ohio State and Michigan is about the same as between Michigan and Nebraska/Mississippi State and larger than between us and teams like UCLA, Miami, SCar, and Stanford. If you go by average recruit ranking it's aproximately 4 points, which is the same as the difference between us and Cal, Utah, NC State, GTech, Duke, Iowa, etc. Larger than the difference between Michigan and MSU.
Maybe it's legit to criticize Harbaugh for not being able to get his teams to upset teams that are better than him. It's definitely legit to criticize losses to teams like Wisconsin imo. But I don't think it's easy to find coaches with that same kind of mojo. And the ones that do have it often also have the opposite kind as well. They might pull off a huge upset one week and then have 2-3 inexplicable losses in the same season.
Really, we would want a guy that can recruit like gangbusters. But I'm pretty skeptical of anyone's ability to do what Georgia, Ohio State, and Alabama do at Michigan.
I can agree with this. The Penn State loss was kind of a wash to me. 7 points in the toughest road environment in college football. The Wisconsin loss really was inexcusable, and I'm a Harbaugh defender. It was a bad coaching job all the way around. Harbaugh and his staff has typically had one of those a season, and that needs to be cut down to 0. The team should be 10-0 or 11-1 heading into next year's Ohio State game, where they will unfortunately get their doors blown off again.
My propane guy said "tough loss", but in a sincere manner since he's an IU fan and we just talked about the beatdown they received last Monday.
I only know one O$U fan but I can always just remind him that he's a bandwagoner who cheers for teams from like 5 different states. That's how it goes here though lol. Everyone who's a UK basketball fan has a favorite college football team from another state.
How the hell do you prove that you're not doing something? The fact is that Ohio State's actually been busted multiple times and there's always been a ton of smoke there. Michigan football has never been busted for any major recruiting violations, academic scandals, or for violating amateurism statutes. It is not true that every program cheats on a large scale. That's just something that fans of schools who are constant cheaters say to justify believing that their school is noble and deserves everything they get.
Well, they're not and they don't. Chase Young shouldn't be playing amateur football right now. And if the NCAA did their jobs most of those kids from Texas and Florida wouldn't be in Ohio either.
And to add to that, looking at team rankings in recruiting is misguided as well. We end up around 10th in total "team points" but our average recruit ranking always seems to be around .89. OSU's is always somewhere around .94 - .95. That's an average recruit that is a top 100 player. Their entire roster is full of those guys year after year.
This aint John Cooper or Jim Tressel's Ohio State anymore. This is Bama North.
I'd contend that OSU made a similar number of mistakes as Michigan but it didn't matter because their O Line paved our D line all game. Fields made bad reads and throws more than he made good ones. Their receivers ran some iffy routes and had a few drops. They muffed a punt at their own 20. Their linebackers were on skates for most of the game. etc etc etc.
He "had" to "borrow" money from an NFL agent because his "girlfriend" wanted to go to a bowl game. His freshman year, of course. Before he'd barely even played and nobody could know he'd be a first round pick. But their program and staff had no idea, of course. It's just a coincidence.
I agree but I also don't give a shit how I look to people that are too cynical to care about things like integrity. If people want to fire Harbaugh and Manuel because they won't cheat as much as Ohio State does then I'm fine with that as long as fans are honest with themselves.
What I'm not fine with is demonizing coaches and players because they play by the rules and Ohio State doesn't. It's not a moral failing on their part. It's not due to "not taking the rivalry seriously."
That's bullshit. We are where we are because Michigan refuses to throw away the rulebook and go funnel money to elite athletes the way other programs do.
Anyone who denies the reality of modern college football is setting themselves up for eternal disappointment. The difference is talent and not coaching or schemes.
Your program has been implicated in innumerable scandals and shady dealings.
Anyone who pays attention and isn't a sycophant knows the reality. You're trash and accomplishments don't matter unless you play by the same rules as everyone else. Gfy.
Difference is basketball is 5v5 and has like a 12 man roster instead of 100.
But yes, programs like NC, Duke, Kansas, and Lousiville cheat HARD in basketball, and that's been proven multiple times over. It's just not as effective as it is in football.
The entire SEC has the same M.O. and we all know it.
Urban brought that to the Big Ten. Players don't line up to head to Cowtown, Ohio out of Texas and Florida just for the hell of it. Play into their bullshit narrative if you want to and continue to be frustrated until the end of time, regardless of who's coaching at Michigan. But I'm not going for it. If I were AD I would have canceled the game after Chase Young got that slap on the wrist.
They funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars to players and recruits every single year. They should be playing semi-pro instead of amateur sports.
I agree to some extent. I would do it if I were in charge because the NCAA has made it clear that they'll look the other way.
But I won't blame our players/coaches for playing by the rules of the game just because others don't. The NCAA should just admit that they're a wannabe pro league or let the players who want to get paid play in an NFL mi or league. College football as currently constructed needs to be destroyed.
The Wolverines should go play in a conference that cares about rules if they're going to follow them.
The Big Ten doesn't care about rules. Only about success.
Stop playing in the Big Ten if you want to be a program with institutional integrity. It's not the right cinference for a program like Michigan. They only care about W's.
Yeah right. We knew Michigan's D line would have trouble against a power run game even before the season started. That's what we saw against Wisconsin and what we see today. If they sell out on the run they will get burned badly.
Recent Comments
I have nothing…
Hell no.
I have nothing against LSU but I've gotta admit I've come to like Clemson. They've been completely dominant yet somehow still seem to end up underdogs every year. They've knocked Bama off multiple times and they make Ohio State their bitch, and I've gotta say it's really nice that those bastards get to experience what that feels like. Won't be upset if LSU takes it though.
Say what you want about Lex Luther, but he seems to get things done.
Yeah they just forgot which is why they signed 5 star dt's in back to back years.
One of them transfered and one is a true freshman, so they were left starting guys that should have been depth players this year.
Norvell just signed with Florida State.
Satterfield's greatest accomplishment thus far is just being pretty good (not elite) at App State.
Matt Wells has done what? Had a couple of decent seasons in the Mountain West? Never really done anything that stands out at all.
Neither Clemson coordinator has ever been a head coach, so that's a complete unknown.
I think Fleck is the only one of that list that at this point it's even reasonable to believe has the potential to be a big time head coach. What he's done at Western and Minnesota has been pretty outstanding. But not anymore outstanding than what Jim Harbaugh's done in his career, and you guys think he sucks so...
Yes there's a huge difference between being a pretty good team that's trying to make it to the next level and being a bad team that doesn't have a clue.
And btw Michigan has beaten good teams under Harbaugh.
Ohio State has better players.
If their players are adequately prepared, they kick an adequately prepared Michigan's ass.
But it takes…
I agree.
But it takes both the right qb's and offensive staff. Harbaugh could have done better on that front in his time at Michigan and I think he recognized that and handed the keys over to Gattis. I'm excited to see what he can do next year with McCaffrey. I think Dylan has a higher ceiling than Shea.
Their best win was what? Oklahoma State? 7-5 Texas?
Let's just forget that Harbaugh took over a failing program and immediately doubled the win total in year 1.
Better chance than whatever random g5 scrub they'd pick up after firing him
Fire Harbaugh…
Fuck it.
Fire Harbaugh. Let's go get us another G5 coach and hope the entire program doesn't melt down I guess. Make it 5 coaches in 13 years.
I agree with this take and it's why I never bought into the "OSU will take a step back" narrative either before last year or this one. Meyer's offensive approach, including his qb recruits, were actually a liability to his team by the time he came to OSU. His schtick had been figured out. But he's a master recruiter and they were just so damn talented across the board that they could still be really good despite that.
When I saw Dwayne Haskins drop that dime in the 2017 game I knew we were in trouble the next year. Now, their O Line play and linebackers in 2018 gave me some hope, but their O Line was nearly flawless against us, of course. And their defense was just mediocre instead of a disaster that gave up huge plays.
And of course I never believed we'd beat them in 2019. Not before or during the season.
All that being said, Michigan's QB play and offensive philosophy has also held them back under Harbaugh. Let's just hope Gattis is our Ryan Day/Lincoln Riley. Shea took a huge step throughout the season. A lot like Haskins did last year. Hopefully DMac balls out next season.
We'll still lose to Ohio State, but at least it can be a game and 11-1 with a trip to the Rose Bowl would be pretty fun.
I'll stop "shielding" for Harbaugh as soon as I get a straight answer from the anti-Harbaughs on who the hell you think is going to come to Michigan and take it to heights never before seen.
Feels like you guys engage in a ton of revisionism btw. I remember when Harbaugh was hired there was tons of hype, of course, but also a pretty consistent narrative that it was going to take 3-4 years to turn the sinking ship around. Most had Michigan pegged at about 7 wins in 2015. They win ten that year and by 2016 winning ten games is a disappointment and Harbaugh's a failure.
Sad to say a lot of you will probably think the same thing about Howard in a couple years if he can't make a final four by then. Lots of people calling for Beilein's head before that run they made in '13. Point is, most people don't know fucking shit and would see the program ran into the ground as they lash out over being disappointed about their own delusional expectations.
You know, my biggest concern going forward in regards to Harbaugh isn't that I think it would actually be likely that Michigan finds a better coach, but moreso that the media and dumb fan narrative surrpunding him will make it increasingly hard to win.
Even if he does a great job in making sure his team drowns out the noise and doesn't get mired in negative energy, it seems like the constant negative attention that he, and by extension the team, get whenever they lose a game could have an effect on recruiting going forward.
It seems like Michigan gets a lot of the negative effects of being an elite team without the obvious benefits of actually being one. I still think it's far more likely that a coaching change would go horrifically than make the program better though.
They should have been favored last year based on what we actually saw on the field but that's because Ohio State was underperforming for most of last year. But because they're so talented they can make mistakes all season and skate by then turn it on at the end and still end up 13-1, Big Ten and Rose Bowl champs. That's what having a master recruiter at a historical blue blood that only cares about winning football games gets you.
The talent gap is very significant. It's really not being overstated by anybody.
Look at the team composite talent rankings for this year. The gap between Ohio State and Michigan is about the same as between Michigan and Nebraska/Mississippi State and larger than between us and teams like UCLA, Miami, SCar, and Stanford. If you go by average recruit ranking it's aproximately 4 points, which is the same as the difference between us and Cal, Utah, NC State, GTech, Duke, Iowa, etc. Larger than the difference between Michigan and MSU.
Maybe it's legit to criticize Harbaugh for not being able to get his teams to upset teams that are better than him. It's definitely legit to criticize losses to teams like Wisconsin imo. But I don't think it's easy to find coaches with that same kind of mojo. And the ones that do have it often also have the opposite kind as well. They might pull off a huge upset one week and then have 2-3 inexplicable losses in the same season.
Really, we would want a guy that can recruit like gangbusters. But I'm pretty skeptical of anyone's ability to do what Georgia, Ohio State, and Alabama do at Michigan.
I can agree with this. The Penn State loss was kind of a wash to me. 7 points in the toughest road environment in college football. The Wisconsin loss really was inexcusable, and I'm a Harbaugh defender. It was a bad coaching job all the way around. Harbaugh and his staff has typically had one of those a season, and that needs to be cut down to 0. The team should be 10-0 or 11-1 heading into next year's Ohio State game, where they will unfortunately get their doors blown off again.
My propane guy said "tough loss", but in a sincere manner since he's an IU fan and we just talked about the beatdown they received last Monday.
I only know one O$U fan but I can always just remind him that he's a bandwagoner who cheers for teams from like 5 different states. That's how it goes here though lol. Everyone who's a UK basketball fan has a favorite college football team from another state.
How the hell do you prove that you're not doing something? The fact is that Ohio State's actually been busted multiple times and there's always been a ton of smoke there. Michigan football has never been busted for any major recruiting violations, academic scandals, or for violating amateurism statutes. It is not true that every program cheats on a large scale. That's just something that fans of schools who are constant cheaters say to justify believing that their school is noble and deserves everything they get.
Well, they're not and they don't. Chase Young shouldn't be playing amateur football right now. And if the NCAA did their jobs most of those kids from Texas and Florida wouldn't be in Ohio either.
And to add to that,…
Yup.
And to add to that, looking at team rankings in recruiting is misguided as well. We end up around 10th in total "team points" but our average recruit ranking always seems to be around .89. OSU's is always somewhere around .94 - .95. That's an average recruit that is a top 100 player. Their entire roster is full of those guys year after year.
This aint John Cooper or Jim Tressel's Ohio State anymore. This is Bama North.
I'd contend that OSU made a similar number of mistakes as Michigan but it didn't matter because their O Line paved our D line all game. Fields made bad reads and throws more than he made good ones. Their receivers ran some iffy routes and had a few drops. They muffed a punt at their own 20. Their linebackers were on skates for most of the game. etc etc etc.
He "had" to …
Right.
He "had" to "borrow" money from an NFL agent because his "girlfriend" wanted to go to a bowl game. His freshman year, of course. Before he'd barely even played and nobody could know he'd be a first round pick. But their program and staff had no idea, of course. It's just a coincidence.
Enjoy watching…
Lol.
Enjoy watching Michigan go 5-7 in 2021 because Michigan fired Harbaugh for "just not wanting it enough."
…
I wasn't one of them.
Haven't called for a UM victory all season.
Literally caught funneling money to your best player this very year
NCAA turns a blind eye because they're corrupt
gfy
I agree but I also don't give a shit how I look to people that are too cynical to care about things like integrity. If people want to fire Harbaugh and Manuel because they won't cheat as much as Ohio State does then I'm fine with that as long as fans are honest with themselves.
What I'm not fine with is demonizing coaches and players because they play by the rules and Ohio State doesn't. It's not a moral failing on their part. It's not due to "not taking the rivalry seriously."
That's bullshit. We are where we are because Michigan refuses to throw away the rulebook and go funnel money to elite athletes the way other programs do.
Anyone who denies the reality of modern college football is setting themselves up for eternal disappointment. The difference is talent and not coaching or schemes.
Your program…
Eat shit.
Your program has been implicated in innumerable scandals and shady dealings.
Anyone who pays attention and isn't a sycophant knows the reality. You're trash and accomplishments don't matter unless you play by the same rules as everyone else. Gfy.
Their best player was caught accepting cash his freshman year. I'm sure it's just an innocent mistake though.
They have better players because they cheat.
Their staff looks better because they cheat to get better players.
Keep sucking that Buckeye cheating cock though.
Difference is basketball is 5v5 and has like a 12 man roster instead of 100.
But yes, programs like NC, Duke, Kansas, and Lousiville cheat HARD in basketball, and that's been proven multiple times over. It's just not as effective as it is in football.
The entire SEC has the same M.O. and we all know it.
Urban brought that to the Big Ten. Players don't line up to head to Cowtown, Ohio out of Texas and Florida just for the hell of it. Play into their bullshit narrative if you want to and continue to be frustrated until the end of time, regardless of who's coaching at Michigan. But I'm not going for it. If I were AD I would have canceled the game after Chase Young got that slap on the wrist.
They funnel hundreds of thousands of dollars to players and recruits every single year. They should be playing semi-pro instead of amateur sports.
I agree to some extent. I would do it if I were in charge because the NCAA has made it clear that they'll look the other way.
But I won't blame our players/coaches for playing by the rules of the game just because others don't. The NCAA should just admit that they're a wannabe pro league or let the players who want to get paid play in an NFL mi or league. College football as currently constructed needs to be destroyed.
As far as I'm concerned, Ohio State doesn't exist.
They're cheaters and shouldn't be recognized by anyone with a conscience.
Ohio State is a pro team that cheats their way to "glory".
Fans need to accept reality or go cheer for a cheater. It is what is is.
…
Yeah we have obvious proof.
But the NCAA only suspends cheaters for the least impactful games of the season.
Those of us on the up and up know what's going on. Cheat to win or lose forever. NCAA doesn't care.
…
America is dead.
Integrity doesn't matter anymore.
Integrity doesn't matter.
Cheat as much and as hard as you can possibly get away with. Anarchy rules now.
The Wolverines should go play in a conference that cares about rules if they're going to follow them.
The Big Ten doesn't care about rules. Only about success.
Stop playing in the Big Ten if you want to be a program with institutional integrity. It's not the right cinference for a program like Michigan. They only care about W's.
Doesn't matter who coaches Michigan.
If they play by the rules, they'll lose.
Meyer is a piece of shit
Coaches have called a good game.
Even Brown. The difference is that Ohio State's O line is taking advantage of our undersized D line.
He's a damn good coordinator.
Props to Harbaugh for recognizing it from the start.
Michigan is a good football team.
Ohio State is elite.
If you want Harbaugh gone you better have one of the best cfb coaches in history in mind.
If we beat them they need to fire their whole damn staff because it would have to be coaching malpractice on their part
Every fuckin team makes mistakes. Unless Ohio State blows it with bad coaching this is about what you would expect by looking at team talent.
Yeah right. We knew Michigan's D line would have trouble against a power run game even before the season started. That's what we saw against Wisconsin and what we see today. If they sell out on the run they will get burned badly.
That feels like game over considering our D can't stop a simple stretch run
Yeah just give em an extra second and a half.
Awesome
Buckeyes = Nazis confirmed
No coach is or could come here and do better against modern Ohio State so we might as well quit bitching about it and accept reality.
Jim Harbaugh is a hell of a football coach. He always has been. Michigan has institutional limitations that Ohio State doesn't share.
It' not Cleveland, Youngstown, Akron, or Cincinatti either but that's irrelevant because neither school is in any of those cities.