Jeff Lesson 97.1 Cites Source: Michigan Can Prove NINE Other B1G Schools Sent Analysts To Record Games
Didn't see this posted this am.
Per subject line, Michigan says they have the (NEW) receipts and are willing to make ugly a hell of a lot uglier. Might be the reason for all the delays...
November 10th, 2023 at 11:37 AM ^
The asked Mike Hart if he thought MSU was little brother for clarification and he said "Yup". I remember it because I loved it
November 10th, 2023 at 11:38 AM ^
Eh, it was the same as Hart's comment. What Jim said was: "Sometimes people standing on third base think they hit a triple...but they didn't." He didn't name Day any more than Hart named MSU, but the implication was clear, and everyone knew what they meant.
November 10th, 2023 at 12:00 PM ^
Inject Jim Harbaugh straight into my fucking veins. I love this man. Please never leave.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
They thought Michigan was still the Dave Brandon led Michigan athletic department that rolled over for everyone.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:57 AM ^
Brandon sucked, clearly, but the one decent thing he did as AD was treat rhe stretchgate bullshit with the scorn it deserved. Thank [your deity of choice] that we have Santa instead if Schlissel though
November 10th, 2023 at 11:00 AM ^
I think Brian was the one who said he treated Stretchgate with the same disdain that he treated...well...everything. so not sure you can give Brandon "credit" but sure, why not.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
Thank god for knishes.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
If I had to guess, the Presidents & ADs of those schools did not know about it, but I am quite certain the scumbag head coaches whining about how this is the greatest scandal ever and whining anonymously to Pete Thamel did
November 10th, 2023 at 11:43 AM ^
Purdue's Walters literally whined about how knowing signs is a health and safety issue when he used stolen signs against us as DC at Illinois.
The BigTen is full of hypocritical back stabbers.
November 10th, 2023 at 12:56 PM ^
I think that we can safely assume that it wasn't all 13 of either group. I think it is also safe to assume that those who were not on the bandwagon didn't care enough to get into a pissing contest with those who were.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:40 AM ^
What's the source? Don't want to sit through 25 min video.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:43 AM ^
Go to around 6:30 of the link. Jeff Lesson won't name the source, but he explains....
November 10th, 2023 at 1:12 PM ^
But then Lesson explodes his credibility when he says, at 9:49, that "[Michigan] has pretty much admitted that Conner Stalions was at the games..." Michigan has done no such thing; in fact, they have argued the opposite.
The willful ignorance of sports journalists on this is is infuriating. It's not THAT hard to stay informed.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^
posted it further down but this is the main quote from a source who is VERY close to the situation according to him
No penalty this week. Probably none next week. Then they will say we're waiting for the NCAA investigation. And as it stands now maaaybe some kind of reprimand, maybe a fine. Originally they were negotiating a few days ago. B1G wanted a three game suspension for Jimmy. Michigan told them to go where. Two games, they gave them the same answer. Then the University of Michigan came up with some very important data that got the attention of the young commissioner....he was given information...he was told by the Michigan people he was talking to that the University of Michigan has data on 9 other big ten teams that sent people to games. That this would get really ugly.
Dunno these dudes or their source but that's the money quote.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:05 AM ^
Well, since his "source" claims no penalty this week, we shall find out the validity soon today.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:29 PM ^
Did not age well…:(
November 10th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^
I have to imagine, given the "sign stealing brotherhood", that Stalions was likely doing it in part because other sign stealers were also doing it. Or maybe they saw what Stalions did and thought "hey that's a great idea, imma do that too!"
Regardless, it was foolish to think Stalions at Michigan is the only guy doing something ethically wrong in regards to sign stealing. And I'm not about to thread the needle on the difference between a technical violation of the NCAA bylaw on in-person scouting (illegal and bad!!!!! death penalty for UM!!!), vs. other schools literally colluding to share already decoded stolen signs on Michigan (totally legal and totally different, we swear!!!!)
November 10th, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
IF this is true they should have put this in their letter to the commissioner
November 10th, 2023 at 10:50 AM ^
Feels like they kind of did... can't remember some verbatim, but it was an extremely better stated version of "you know, a lot of stuff goes on that you may or may not know about, and it would be a crying shame if the whole world were to somehow learn about all of it..."
You know, lawyer-ese for "FAFO"
November 10th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^
This one...
"The conference should act cautiously when setting precedent given the reality that in-person scouting, collusion among opponents, and other questionable practices may well be far more prevalent than believed," Michigan wrote in the letter.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^
Big time Breaking Bad 'if you don't know who I am then perhaps you should tread lightly' energy
(I forget the exact quote)
November 10th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
There are better ways to play this. Many are listed below.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:18 AM ^
I think the only problem with that is that if you state your implied tit for tat too directly, it approaches what might be called extortion or blackmail. I like the way the lawyer phrased it.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
I'm shocked, shocked to hear there's gambling in this establishment!
November 10th, 2023 at 10:41 AM ^
Mutually assured destruction; you sure you want to hit the launch button, Tony?
November 10th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^
Then prove it Michigan. No reason to leave that arrow in our quiver.
Heard lots of similar stuff over the past two weeks, my guess is we’re not holding anything in reserve, if we actually had such a document it would’ve been included in our response.
Not saying 9 other schools didn’t do it but I do doubt we can prove it.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:45 AM ^
If that's true then I doubt Michigan leaked this. It wouldn't be smart to bluff when someone can so easily call it.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:47 AM ^
You don’t unleash all of your arrows at once. Good way to leave yourself open to counterattack.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:42 AM ^
Unlike me, Michigan doesn't want to release the information just for spite. It wants to release the information (or threaten to do so) to force the Big 10 to stand down. You can't release the hostages until you have your loot secured. It's Negotiation 101.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:48 AM ^
There's something to be said about "playing last" in a game like this. Let Pettiti play his cards -- then see what happens.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^
Why would we include that in the letter? Those details are best displayed in court if needed.
We DID send a warning though:
"Moreover, the Conference should act cautiously when setting precedent given the reality that in-person scouting, collusion among opponents, and other questionable practices may well be far more prevalent than believed."
November 10th, 2023 at 10:53 AM ^
Yeah, idk why he thinks this info would go in that response.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:05 AM ^
I don’t think that court is the best place for that evidence to come out, mostly because those other programs won’t be the ones on trial. It needs to come out before it gets that far so that the B1G either wises up and doesn’t force an issue they won’t win in public opinion or open themselves up to the defense of whatever the legal word for uneven punishment or preferential treatment (or the inverse thereof) that would be clear of the B1G chose to move forward with punishment against UM without responding in kind to the allegations against the other 9 schools.
As soon as a punishment beyond a fine or other similar slip on the wrist is announced, you release everything via multiple media outlets. We already know Thamel won’t report it, most of ESPN will probably downplay it as whataboutism and deflecting, but there have to be some other national media types that will run with the story as long as it’s actually provable and not just rumor or circumstantial.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:33 AM ^
I only care about Michigan. I'm impressed how they have responded so far.
November 10th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^
If it comes to a trial, the defendants on trial will the Big Ten and Petitti. The value of revealing that the B1G has been ignoring this conduct until suddenly deciding to punish Michigan for it is that it forces the B1G to try to defend their inaction on the other cases and try to somehow distinguish the Michigan "violation" from the others.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:52 AM ^
There are reasons to leave it in the quiver, if they have it.
This info, if true, was not necessary for the response they sent.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^
Yeah, I've changed my opinion of this the last few days a bit. Went from burn it all down, release everything a day at a time, to let's strategically play this out.
That being said, IF this is provable, this is something you release now. It's the exact same thing you are accused of, the response to the conference laid out that the evidence they've shared is pretty much nothing other than other teams' reporting things with no 1st hand evidence (Stallions did what he's accused of though) and little of that is really making a significant dent/breaking through. It's a PR battle and so far Michigan has come back a little, but this would blow a hole in the whole thing and drown any realistic attempt at punishment that has been "leaked" today.
The OSU "stuff" is probably unprovable and doesn't speak directly to this exact situation.
The Michigan sign sheet collected and distributed by other teams made a mark, but that still didn't rise to the general level of "the exact same thing Stallions did" so a lot of people waived it away as "well it's not technically as bad" (which, it's worse IMO).
This? This is 1:1 every program that cried is full of shit and any punishment levied at Michigan would have to be levied at other programs too.
Edit: Just listened to the video and the rationale of "don't release it because it would take down 9 other programs" is just bad reasoning. No, what this does is prove the "rule" they're banking on here isn't actually enforceable/shouldn't be pursued because of the rate at which it's broken/it's not actually an explicit rule. This wouldn't put all 10 teams at risk of being penalized, it would remove the penalization of Michigan because no conference would penalize 70% of its members for maybe kind of sort of breaking a squishy rule. If it's this squishy and that many programs do this, it's not actually a rule that can be enforced/punished.
November 10th, 2023 at 10:59 AM ^
I'm with you man, this needs released. There is ZERO reason to withhold this information. We've already been drug through the mud by the people we supposedly have dirt on, so why not just release it and take them down.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
I would only do it in the face of a suspension or other unjust punishment.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:34 AM ^
Exactly. Hang on to the binder until needed.
November 10th, 2023 at 1:20 PM ^
I would say, what better time than now?
November 10th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^
Having something else to drop is always advantageous, though starting sooner could have helped. We've all watched the drip drip of M news, but the worm has really turned now that the opps are out of ammo and their previous efforts are coming undone. Holding the last cards has a ton of value in shaping the narrative and ensuring the chumps look maximally chumpy.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^
I also don’t like it because if we say 9 other schools were doing what Stalions did then someone on staff must have known what Stalions was doing.
edit: I know people don’t like negative thoughts, but how would this not be a logical conclusion?
November 10th, 2023 at 1:50 PM ^
I think that everyone on the staff now knows what Stalions was doing. It's kinda been a big deal in sports news.
November 10th, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^
My guess is Michigan is still trying to be the mature adult in this conference and has been privately reminding other schools and Pettiti that they have this info and will drop it if Harbaugh is suspended. I don't think Michigan takes this league for granted or wants to blow it up - I wish our peer members felt the same respect for us
November 10th, 2023 at 11:40 AM ^
oops ya beat me to it :)
November 10th, 2023 at 11:39 AM ^
Eh I bet you're wrong. All of this is showing that UM is trying not to burn everything down - but will do so, if pushed. It's being an Adult in a room of Children.
November 10th, 2023 at 12:05 PM ^
This is a fair point. If Lessons is correct, it may be that Michigan has taken the time to acquire information that could properly be considered "evidence" rather than just "we know stuff is going on."
And it's useful as a threat of escalation to keep the exact info unknown. Particularly if other programs know there's stuff there.
November 10th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^
Disagree. No chance UofM would even hint at this if they didn't have receipts. It's just not how they operate, thankfully. I also think it makes most sense to do exactly what they've done. If the B10 backs down, then we can leave it be. We still have to share this conference with all those teams, and don't want the commissioner to have us in their sights moving forward.
Also, UofM always strives to be the adult in the room. Thankfully.