Jeff Lesson 97.1 Cites Source: Michigan Can Prove NINE Other B1G Schools Sent Analysts To Record Games

Submitted by 608Monroe on November 10th, 2023 at 10:35 AM

Didn't see this posted this am.

Per subject line, Michigan says they have the (NEW) receipts and are willing to make ugly a hell of a lot uglier.  Might be the reason for all the delays...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=piJHbGDpD_Y

grumbler

November 10th, 2023 at 1:12 PM ^

But then Lesson explodes his credibility when he says, at 9:49, that "[Michigan] has pretty much admitted that Conner Stalions was at the games..."  Michigan has done no such thing; in fact, they have argued the opposite.

The willful ignorance of sports journalists on this is is infuriating.  It's not THAT hard to stay informed.

NeverPunt

November 10th, 2023 at 11:01 AM ^

posted it further down but this is the main quote from a source who is VERY close to the situation according to him

No penalty this week. Probably none next week. Then they will say we're waiting for the NCAA investigation. And as it stands now maaaybe some kind of reprimand, maybe a fine. Originally they were negotiating a few days ago. B1G wanted a three game suspension for Jimmy. Michigan told them to go where. Two games, they gave them the same answer. Then the University of Michigan came up with some very important data that got the attention of the young commissioner....he was given information...he was told by the Michigan people he was talking to that the University of Michigan has data on 9 other big ten teams that sent people to games. That this would get really ugly.

Dunno these dudes or their source but that's the money quote.

CompleteLunacy

November 10th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^

I have to imagine, given the "sign stealing brotherhood", that Stalions was likely doing it in part because other sign stealers were also doing it. Or maybe they saw what Stalions did and thought "hey that's a great idea, imma do that too!"

Regardless, it was foolish to think Stalions at Michigan is the only guy doing something ethically wrong in regards to sign stealing. And I'm not about to thread the needle on the difference between a technical violation of the NCAA bylaw on in-person scouting (illegal and bad!!!!! death penalty for UM!!!), vs. other schools literally colluding to share already decoded stolen signs on Michigan (totally legal and totally different, we swear!!!!)

mGrowOld

November 10th, 2023 at 10:42 AM ^

Then prove it Michigan.  No reason to leave that arrow in our quiver.

Heard lots of similar stuff over the past two weeks, my guess is we’re not holding anything in reserve, if we actually had such a document it would’ve been included in our response.

Not saying 9 other schools didn’t do it but I do doubt we can prove it.

4EverBlueGirl

November 10th, 2023 at 10:51 AM ^

Why would we include that in the letter? Those details are best displayed in court if needed. 
 

We DID send a warning though:

"Moreover, the Conference should act cautiously when setting precedent given the reality that in-person scouting, collusion among opponents, and other questionable practices may well be far more prevalent than believed."

 

s1105615

November 10th, 2023 at 11:05 AM ^

I don’t think that court is the best place for that evidence to come out, mostly because those other programs won’t be the ones on trial.  It needs to come out before it gets that far so that the B1G either wises up and doesn’t force an issue they won’t win in public opinion or open themselves up to the defense of whatever the legal word for uneven punishment or preferential treatment (or the inverse thereof) that would be clear of the B1G chose to move forward with punishment against UM without responding in kind to the allegations against the other 9 schools.

As soon as a punishment beyond a fine or other similar slip on the wrist is announced, you release everything via multiple media outlets.  We already know Thamel won’t report it, most of ESPN will probably downplay it as whataboutism and deflecting, but there have to be some other national media types that will run with the story as long as it’s actually provable and not just rumor or circumstantial.  

grumbler

November 10th, 2023 at 1:09 PM ^

If it comes to a trial, the defendants on trial will the Big Ten and Petitti.  The value of revealing that the B1G has been ignoring this conduct until suddenly deciding to punish Michigan for it is that it forces the B1G to try to defend their inaction on the other cases and try to somehow distinguish the Michigan "violation" from the others.

 

Watching From Afar

November 10th, 2023 at 10:56 AM ^

Yeah, I've changed my opinion of this the last few days a bit. Went from burn it all down, release everything a day at a time, to let's strategically play this out.

That being said, IF this is provable, this is something you release now. It's the exact same thing you are accused of, the response to the conference laid out that the evidence they've shared is pretty much nothing other than other teams' reporting things with no 1st hand evidence (Stallions did what he's accused of though) and little of that is really making a significant dent/breaking through. It's a PR battle and so far Michigan has come back a little, but this would blow a hole in the whole thing and drown any realistic attempt at punishment that has been "leaked" today.

The OSU "stuff" is probably unprovable and doesn't speak directly to this exact situation.

The Michigan sign sheet collected and distributed by other teams made a mark, but that still didn't rise to the general level of "the exact same thing Stallions did" so a lot of people waived it away as "well it's not technically as bad" (which, it's worse IMO).

This? This is 1:1 every program that cried is full of shit and any punishment levied at Michigan would have to be levied at other programs too.

Edit: Just listened to the video and the rationale of "don't release it because it would take down 9 other programs" is just bad reasoning. No, what this does is prove the "rule" they're banking on here isn't actually enforceable/shouldn't be pursued because of the rate at which it's broken/it's not actually an explicit rule. This wouldn't put all 10 teams at risk of being penalized, it would remove the penalization of Michigan because no conference would penalize 70% of its members for maybe kind of sort of breaking a squishy rule. If it's this squishy and that many programs do this, it's not actually a rule that can be enforced/punished.

Skapanza

November 10th, 2023 at 11:04 AM ^

Having something else to drop is always advantageous, though starting sooner could have helped. We've all watched the drip drip of M news, but the worm has really turned now that the opps are out of ammo and their previous efforts are coming undone. Holding the last cards has a ton of value in shaping the narrative and ensuring the chumps look maximally chumpy.

lhglrkwg

November 10th, 2023 at 11:27 AM ^

My guess is Michigan is still trying to be the mature adult in this conference and has been privately reminding other schools and Pettiti that they have this info and will drop it if Harbaugh is suspended. I don't think Michigan takes this league for granted or wants to blow it up - I wish our peer members felt the same respect for us

stephenrjking

November 10th, 2023 at 12:05 PM ^

This is a fair point. If Lessons is correct, it may be that Michigan has taken the time to acquire information that could properly be considered "evidence" rather than just "we know stuff is going on."

And it's useful as a threat of escalation to keep the exact info unknown. Particularly if other programs know there's stuff there. 

TIMMMAAY

November 10th, 2023 at 12:22 PM ^

Disagree. No chance UofM would even hint at this if they didn't have receipts. It's just not how they operate, thankfully. I also think it makes most sense to do exactly what they've done. If the B10 backs down, then we can leave it be. We still have to share this conference with all those teams, and don't want the commissioner to have us in their sights moving forward. 

Also, UofM always strives to be the adult in the room. Thankfully.