Interesting information in the Thamel expects Big Ten to act thread
Original OP:
This isn't my information, and I asked the user to post a thread about it, but I feel that it is important enough for its own threat. The information is buried deep in a thread moving down the board and off the front page.
Scroll down to near the end of the Thamel expects the Big Ten to act in the next 48-72 hours thread. When it was originally posted it was on page 3 just before the time change on Saturday night/Sunday morning.
Sorry to be cryptic but since it wasn't my information, I didn't want to post it but again, I feel it's important to draw attention to.
Bluesince89's quite sound retort:
I'm going to call bullshit on the original post.
1) The source is from the law firm working on the case? So the attorney(s) just breached attorney-client privilege and a host of ethics rules in their state (they're all pretty much the same) in addition to firm policy to leak this to their buddy. I've worked on some pretty high-profile, media intense cases in my career and never once have I thought, "let me tell my buddies ahead of time so they know how cool I am." You know why? Because as valuable as I am to my firm, that's a sure fire way to get fired because no clients will trust you after that.
2) "The firm is working this weekend to determine whether to file the suit in local, state, or federal court as reaction time is critical." Ahh yes, so they're debating whether to ask for an injunction against the Big 10 Conference in the 15th District Municipal Court in Ann Arbor? Or in the Rosemont, Illinois equivalent? Yea, no. This suit, if filed, is landing in Federal court (E.D. Mich. or N.D. Ill.), Washtenaw County Circuit Court, or Cook County Circuit Court. Probably E.D. Mich. all things considered. If the firm is seriously debating anything else other than that, they're morons but I know that's not true because UMich hires the absolute best of the best for their biggest cases. The local Big Michigan firms usually don't make the cut unless they're one of the national firms with a Detroit or Ann Arbor Office (Jones Day, Foley, Schiff Harden or whatever their new name is, Troutman Pepper, etc.)
3) An immediate stay of the suspension? It's not an appeal.
4) He's also signaling their strategy so you can share it on a message board? Not just a lawsuit is coming, but this is what we're doing. I could see leaking it to a media outlet, but comon.
None of this passes the smell test of anything reputable.
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MOD EDIT - I will leave the thread for a bit as it is long buried now, but I want everyone to see the reply of an experienced trial attorney to the OP. - LSA
November 5th, 2023 at 8:37 AM ^
I'd like to add, if this happens, I don't ever want to hear from Sparty again that we have some favored son status with the Big Ten.
Granted, if MSU were the ringleader here, everyone would laugh at them and tell them to STFU.
But still, OSU is able to rally support because somehow they've managed to take control of the entire conference. Michigan would never have been able to create a cabal to take down Ohio.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:45 AM ^
With all due respect to everyone in the "leave the B1G" camp. Take a look at the Financials. The athletic department would suffer.
We would have to sacrifice a team sport or scholarships on various teams in order to leave the conference.
The answer isn't leaving the conference! The answer is embracing the Villain role and dominating.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:56 AM ^
Al Davis says hello.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:59 AM ^
Our payouts would probably increase in the SEC, especially if the SEC renegotiates its TV deals after Michigan joins.
If Michigan joins the ACC for cultural or academic reasons, yes we'd take a bit of a hit. But how do you put a price on fair treatment?
November 5th, 2023 at 9:00 AM ^
And share the money with assholes who would get 10 percent of that on their own? Fuck that. UM Football can just leave if there is an option for that.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:36 AM ^
That’s completely false. Revenues are shared equally throughout the league even though M generates a disproportionately higher share of them.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:07 AM ^
We already have the villain role, and M is dominating, which is exactly why this takedown is in effect. Try to keep up.
November 5th, 2023 at 1:15 PM ^
Avatar checks out.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:46 AM ^
I'm going to call bullshit on the original post.
1) The source is from the law firm working on the case? So the attorney(s) just breached attorney-client privilege and a host of ethics rules in their state (they're all pretty much the same) in addition to firm policy to leak this to their buddy. I've worked on some pretty high-profile, media intense cases in my career and never once have I thought, "let me tell my buddies ahead of time so they know how cool I am." You know why? Because as valuable as I am to my firm, that's a sure fire way to get fired because no clients will trust you after that.
2) "The firm is working this weekend to determine whether to file the suit in local, state, or federal court as reaction time is critical." Ahh yes, so they're debating whether to ask for an injunction against the Big 10 Conference in the 15th District Municipal Court in Ann Arbor? Or in the Rosemont, Illinois equivalent? Yea, no. This suit, if filed, is landing in Federal court (E.D. Mich. or N.D. Ill.), Washtenaw County Circuit Court, or Cook County Circuit Court. Probably E.D. Mich. all things considered. If the firm is seriously debating anything else other than that, they're morons but I know that's not true because UMich hires the absolute best of the best for their biggest cases. The local Big Michigan firms usually don't make the cut unless they're one of the national firms with a Detroit or Ann Arbor Office (Jones Day, Foley, Schiff Harden or whatever their new name is, Troutman Pepper, etc.)
3) An immediate stay of the suspension? It's not an appeal.
4) He's also signaling their strategy so you can share it on a message board? Not just a lawsuit is coming, but this is what we're doing. I could see leaking it to a media outlet, but comon.
None of this passes the smell test of anything reputable.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:00 AM ^
Thank you. Good to hear from someone who actually knows what they are talking about.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:01 AM ^
Thanks to JohnathanE for elevating my comment to a new thread. I’m fine with that. I posted the info as soon as I got home from the game at 1am and just after turning my clocks back and jumping in bed. I debated comment or post. Oh well….
I learned the info by talking to my source at the game. I am not a lawyer. I posted my translation of what I heard him say. I will not reveal the source’s identity, but I can verify that it is legitimate that he would know this type of info. It did not sound to me like he was directly working the case.
We will all find out over the next couple of days if all of this is legit. If it’s not, either my source was full is shit or the Big Ten backed off. I’m hoping for the latter…..
November 5th, 2023 at 9:39 AM ^
So you talked to your source at the game, meaning in-person? Does he (or she) live and/or work for a law firm in Michigan that is not Jones Day, Foley & Lardner, and/or Schiff Harden (or whatever their new name is)? Because if so, it is likely that he has absolutely no clue what he is talking about.
If it gets to this point, Michigan will be hiring the elite of the elite - none of whom are Michigan based. MAYBE the Michigan firm is getting retained as local counsel because under E.D. Mich. local rules, where I'm sure the lawsuit will be filed, you have to have local counsel if you're a member of the E.D. Mich. bar but not an active member of the Michigan bar. But that point, you're just an address and answering questions about local rules and practices the national attorneys don't know. You're usually not doing anything substantive. Just signing pleadings the other attorneys prepare. And they'll usually say, "Don't over-staff with associates and junior partners because we don't want a bunch of people billing time for reading emails and 'developing strategy' for no real reason."
If I'm wrong, I'll eat crow, but I'm willing to bet I'm not.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:03 AM ^
"None of this passes the smell test of anything reputable."
The problem is that THAT statement has been true continuously since this story broke before the MSU game. Everything about this has been completely idiotic, with the possible exception of the letter Santa Ono wrote.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:04 AM ^
You make a plausible and educated argument. So, thank you. It was not just this OP but Sam seems to say something similar. There is that. But it is quite possible that UM is leaking their intent to have B1G back off. We will see.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:08 AM ^
I'll assume everything you say is sound. I don't think that means it's all B.S. though. As Kharper3 explained above, this is not necessarily the lawyer breaking attorney client privilege, it's just someone who would know. The specifics getting muddled in a game of telephone among non-lawyers. And it aligns with what Thamel says as well, which means to me there is some of this in the atmosphere. It would be a little weird for Kharper3 to come here and make this up out of whole cloth, but as Kharper says, we'll find out soon enough.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:29 AM ^
It absolutely, 100% is a breach of the attorney-client privilege, violations of the Rules of Professional Conduct, and the lawyer's firm's policy, even if you're not directly working on the case.
Signed,
A trial attorney with over 25 years of experience and a former member Hearing Panel Member of the Michigan Attorney Discipline Board..
November 5th, 2023 at 9:38 AM ^
Aren't clients allowed to talk to whoever they want about their own case?
I'm not trying to tell you what the law is. Obviously you are going to be the expert here between us. I'm not questioning that.
It just seemed like there was a way that this could be spread through rumor without it leaking through the lawyers, especially seeing as how it's being put out there by other entities as well (e.g., Sam, Thamel).
November 5th, 2023 at 9:39 AM ^
Yes, but he didn't say client. He said someone at the law firm preparing the lawsuit.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:06 AM ^
From what I can tell it was a conversation at a football game involving potentially drunk and emotionally charged people. Not exactly difficult to imagine that someone would blabber. That happens in law enforcement, politics, intelligence, military, etc.
A lot of people are pretty bad at OPSEC, especially when alcohol and emotion get involved.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
So already someone who isn’t working on the case and is drunk at a football game blathering? Even more reason not to believe anything.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:20 AM ^
The specifics could be wrong, but the gist could still be right. It's how rumors and sources generally work. That's why corroboration from a 2nd source is what you want.
November 5th, 2023 at 6:09 PM ^
I was not drinking. There was no emotion. Source was coherent and educated. I will not reveal sources name nor law firm name. You can be pissed that the information was leaked, but I have no reason to believe the information was incorrect. We’ll soon find out if all of this is real or fiction. If it is garbage, I’ll own it and will have learned a lesson about my source. If it’s real, you’re welcome for the advanced notice.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:35 AM ^
It would be a breach of attorney-client privilege, but that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. People like to talk.
November 5th, 2023 at 1:36 PM ^
Only a breach of it comes from the attorney side. Client is free to discuss. Perhaps the source of the info was mistaken. Don't know all the politics, but isn't it possible that it might make sense for the client to send a further message that Ono's letter was serious?
November 5th, 2023 at 9:16 AM ^
Agree that the post about 'my buddy at a law firm said...' seems just too wild to be true. What kind of bozo risks his entire legal career to leak this to a friend?
November 5th, 2023 at 11:17 AM ^
Thanks for posting this. Even as a layman, the idea of filing a court suit in a county or state level seems laughable given the multi-state jurisdiction of the conference. Federal court seems the way to go.
That being said, there could be a kernel of truth here in that M is proactively lawyering-up to prepare a legal defense should it become necessary. That would seem the wise thing to do given the state of things.
November 5th, 2023 at 6:12 PM ^
Source commented about lack of speed in federal court which could delay an injunction.
November 5th, 2023 at 3:18 PM ^
I can see some young lawyer with a law firm blabbing to a buddy about this. Idiotic to do it, but it could happen. Your other points could be how the info got translated as it wound it's way to the poster through people who don't know what "local courts" or stays are.
I hope we'll never find out if it's true or not.
November 5th, 2023 at 6:53 PM ^
1) It may be in the client's best interest/approval that this was leaked. It's better not to have to file a motion and this is a shot across the bow when it gets back to the B1G.
2) Yes fed would be better for a number of reasons but you also run the risk it won't even be considered for more than 3 weeks or if it is the judge will keep the suspension in effect while expediting the hearing process. Filing in A2 or MI state court would likely get a quick review and minimally Harbaugh gets to continue coaching during the week and for the Game. If the B1G wants to argue jurisdiction they're always welcome to file a counter motion, but now they've come in as an interested party and that could expedite things. If true I would assume they file in the Eastern District in Michigan because that's where I'd judge shop.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:47 AM ^
I booed the part in the James Earl Jones video yesterday when it says we're proud members of the Big 10. I hope that catches on.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:23 AM ^
I'm going to save that for the championship game. There was a mass-booing of Warren the last 2 championships (probably from both fan bases). I'm going for 11 on this buffoon they got now.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:48 AM ^
OP, I would suggest just editing your post to put the information at the top of this. You already made the thread, might as well make sure people don't have to dig for what you're talking about.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:52 AM ^
Break the B1G. OSU and PSU are the only other teams that command any type of national following and PSU is a B-tier at best program. Sue the shit out of the league, fuck the money up, and leave. The conference is attempting to tar and feather UM, they should not reap the benefits of Michigan's value. Simply put, it's time to go and we should stomp upon their couches on the way out as much as possible by beating the ever living shit of every B1G team (on the field, within the rules of play). It's time y'all let's go find a new athletic home.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:56 AM ^
What blows my mind about this whole situation is we’re talking BIG time college football and these teams don’t change their signals up to get the plays in they keep them the same for the whole season or same seasons?? If so they teams should fire those dumb staffs!
November 5th, 2023 at 9:09 AM ^
As has been stated repeatedly, they like sign stealing. If they wanted to eliminate it they'd have gone to helmet radios decades ago literally. Or they could have gone to wrist bands at literally any time. It's not about the signs.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:11 AM ^
I get it, this is just plain stupid!
November 5th, 2023 at 9:14 AM ^
Everything about this, starting with Connor Stallions, through Pete Thamel, to Tony Petiti, has been beyond stupid.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:14 AM ^
If the Big Ten is suspending Harbaugh pending the outcome of the NCAA investigation and the NCAA investigation comes back with a couple Level II violations - wouldn't that set the precedent that the Big Ten has to suspend every head coach that comes under investigation by the NCAA until the investigation is completed?
That seems like a really slippery slope - if OSU comes under investigation for, idk, offering money to recruits to not visit UM or to take officials to OSU, then Ryan Day would have to be suspended until the investigation is completed. This would lead to every single program in the Big Ten getting their head coach suspended as they all do illegal things that would be Level II violations.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:21 AM ^
It's been obvious for weeks now that no one is thinking about implications in the long term. No one cares what precedents they're setting.
It's worse than how you described it; Michigan isn't even technically under investigation yet because no Notice of Allegations has been delivered. The precedent being set is "we can wreck your season and run off your coach if enough of us are mad."
November 5th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
Wow! I didn't realize the investigation doesn't technically start until the Notice of Allegations is delivered. If that is the case, I just don't see how the presidents, ADs, coaches, and Big Ten can be so short sighted.
This leads me to 2 thoughts - the Big Ten knows more than the public and the evidence is damning that Michigan/Harbaugh broke the rules & are going to get severe punishment from the NCAA (not sure how an extension would still be on the table if this is true as Michigan would have to have received the evidence if other Big Ten schools have).
or
The other schools hate Michigan so much that they are willing to set a precedent that will completely screw them in the future just to screw Michigan out of a 3rd straight title/playoff.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:12 AM ^
you are assuming the precedent would be applied to others in the future
November 5th, 2023 at 11:26 AM ^
As I posted above, if the lynch mob was big enough, absolutely. People get passionate about their football, emotions can definitely get stoked, especially for a rival school.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:19 AM ^
What do the four new not-yet-members think of this shitshow?
November 5th, 2023 at 9:22 AM ^
Do they interpret this as "don't beat Ohio State or we'll all make you regret it"?
November 5th, 2023 at 9:46 AM ^
USC knows full well they could be in Michigan's shoes and they'll want no part of a conference that operates this way. Can you imagine what it would have meant in Pete Carroll times?
UCLA basketball has a similar history and might have similar misgivings. And Nike doesn't seem likely to want this crap either.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:23 AM ^
That’s my question, too: If I was in their positions, I would be weighing my options.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:41 AM ^
The ACC thing might look a lot more attractive to ND if USC also decided to come along for the ride.
I'm still betting on kabuki. But if it goes wrong, it might totally reorganize the whole reorganization.
November 5th, 2023 at 1:42 PM ^
Just dreaming here, but bring USC, UCLA, ND, PSU and Maryland with you and you've got a very good looking conference and deal the B1G a major blow in the process.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:25 AM ^
The optics on sign stealing are awful. It is legal, but it sounds like cheating. CS’s scheme seems like it violates in person scouting, though it is debatable. The rule has nothing to do with sign stealing, but you can see how it would make you better at sign stealing. It doesn’t seem like a big issue in reality, but if Urban Meyer did it I’d want his head. Meyer was fired for knowing about Zach Smith’s abuse of his wife and not stopping it. That’s morally wrong, but has nothing to do with football. I think we’re going to be in a fight.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:37 AM ^
It sounds bad until you actually research the history of the ban on in person scouting as has been done by many others here. The fact that a MAJORITY of NCAA member institutions wanted to reverse the ban in 2013, but it just did not reach the required 62.5% threshold, tells you all you need to know about how ‘unprecedented’ and ‘tainted’ Michigan’s success has been.
The ‘outrage’ is a sham and not consistent with the level of infraction.