Interesting information in the Thamel expects Big Ten to act thread
Original OP:
This isn't my information, and I asked the user to post a thread about it, but I feel that it is important enough for its own threat. The information is buried deep in a thread moving down the board and off the front page.
Scroll down to near the end of the Thamel expects the Big Ten to act in the next 48-72 hours thread. When it was originally posted it was on page 3 just before the time change on Saturday night/Sunday morning.
Sorry to be cryptic but since it wasn't my information, I didn't want to post it but again, I feel it's important to draw attention to.
Bluesince89's quite sound retort:
I'm going to call bullshit on the original post.
1) The source is from the law firm working on the case? So the attorney(s) just breached attorney-client privilege and a host of ethics rules in their state (they're all pretty much the same) in addition to firm policy to leak this to their buddy. I've worked on some pretty high-profile, media intense cases in my career and never once have I thought, "let me tell my buddies ahead of time so they know how cool I am." You know why? Because as valuable as I am to my firm, that's a sure fire way to get fired because no clients will trust you after that.
2) "The firm is working this weekend to determine whether to file the suit in local, state, or federal court as reaction time is critical." Ahh yes, so they're debating whether to ask for an injunction against the Big 10 Conference in the 15th District Municipal Court in Ann Arbor? Or in the Rosemont, Illinois equivalent? Yea, no. This suit, if filed, is landing in Federal court (E.D. Mich. or N.D. Ill.), Washtenaw County Circuit Court, or Cook County Circuit Court. Probably E.D. Mich. all things considered. If the firm is seriously debating anything else other than that, they're morons but I know that's not true because UMich hires the absolute best of the best for their biggest cases. The local Big Michigan firms usually don't make the cut unless they're one of the national firms with a Detroit or Ann Arbor Office (Jones Day, Foley, Schiff Harden or whatever their new name is, Troutman Pepper, etc.)
3) An immediate stay of the suspension? It's not an appeal.
4) He's also signaling their strategy so you can share it on a message board? Not just a lawsuit is coming, but this is what we're doing. I could see leaking it to a media outlet, but comon.
None of this passes the smell test of anything reputable.
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MOD EDIT - I will leave the thread for a bit as it is long buried now, but I want everyone to see the reply of an experienced trial attorney to the OP. - LSA
November 5th, 2023 at 8:45 AM ^
Make no mistake, Michigan’s outside counsel has been on speed-dial the last couple of weeks.
They likely have no less than 5-7 lawyers working almost full time on this since the story broke and have been mapping this out and serving as a rapid response team.
Everything Ono and Michigan are doing is at the advice of their legal team. We are just seeing the tip of the spear.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:37 AM ^
So Michigan to the SEC when?
November 5th, 2023 at 7:59 AM ^
Yesterday
November 5th, 2023 at 8:03 AM ^
Am I alone in preferring the ACC over the SEC? Yes, the SEC has more money and more prestige, but:
• Alabama would remain the top dog in the SEC and there’s no reason to believe the SEC would treat Michigan any better than the B1G. There’s no way the South would look kindly on Yankees coming down from the North.
• The ACC needs Michigan a lot more than the SEC does. The teams in the ACC would also want the conference to treat Michigan poorly, but they also know how grateful they would be if Michigan showed up. A team like FSU would care a lot more about the money they would get than being vindictive.
• Michigan already has a rival in Notre Dame, which would be nice to resume on an annual basis.
• Michigan would be in position to dominate the conference, unlike the SEC.
• Travel time for the most part is shorter (though the additions of Stanford, Cal, and SMU reduce this advantage).
November 5th, 2023 at 8:24 AM ^
Yesterday I suggested looking at the Big 12. I would prefer either to the SEC as I do believe Michigan would be a fish out of water there.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:22 AM ^
I was wondering if the big12 would be the cleanest because fox has the rights so could facilitate michigans exit from the big ten for cheap.
but I think the ACC would be a good fit
November 5th, 2023 at 8:24 AM ^
Nope..I posted similar yesterday bringing up some of the same points. And agree on the SEC and Alabama. Though the same with Georgia. Plus they just added Texass so you have 3 teams there that will be preferred
And IF could bring ND along full time the money would be equal I would bet
November 5th, 2023 at 8:32 AM ^
Michigan to the ACC would be great because half of the people who grew up in Michigan live in ACC territory now anyway. A Michigan-UNC game in Chapel Hill would be like 25% Michigan fans. And I'd take a annual rivalry with Notre Dame over OSU or MSU at this point. When your "rivalries" become more about court proceedings than football, it's time to move on.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:26 AM ^
Big 12
November 5th, 2023 at 10:02 AM ^
I think that makes close to zero cultural sense (region, academics).
November 5th, 2023 at 9:45 AM ^
I agree with a lot of this, but I think in terms of treating Michigan well or M being behind Alabama in preference that SEC culture is inherently different enough such that it doesn’t really matter. The culture of cheating there is so engrained I’d be stunned if the other big dogs did pulled a stunt like this.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:18 AM ^
Dallas is a 2-2.5 hr flight from DTW. Only the west coast schools would be an issue. Easier than flying to Oregon.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:21 AM ^
LEaving the BIG seems like crazy talk to me.....but....if the ACC was an option is a Michigan option enough to open media rights re-negotiation between the ACC and ESPN that are locked up currently thru 2035? How nuts would that be and it would be so ironic to see how ESPN could potentially change their tune on the Michigan narrative....
November 5th, 2023 at 11:16 AM ^
I would bet we could get Penn State to consider coming with us if we made an ACC move.
I grew up in PA and both my brothers went to Penn State. I went to PSU games long before I went to Michigan games. Penn State people were never fully comfortable with the Big Ten move. If you ask them who their Big Ten rival is, they can't even agree on an answer. And whoever they think it is, that program does not view Penn State as their Big Ten rival. They have always been a bit of an afterthought in the Big Ten and they bristle at that.
They might like to "come home" to their own region if it was in a viable stable conference.
November 5th, 2023 at 12:35 PM ^
Not just PSU, the ACC could poach Rutger and Maryland as well.
November 5th, 2023 at 12:09 PM ^
I also thought about the ACC, we have weight to have ESPN renegotiate their awful GOR and network contract if we join.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:43 AM ^
Thank you for posting this here by the way. I read in other threads that B1G cannot suspend someone more than 2 games without board approval. So, the board is going to meet and they are expected to agree to this? So, the whole conference is in on this then and they all are ready to tarnish a man's reputation without due process. What a shitty conference. Get the hell out UM.
I seriously hope this is is just UM being prepared, which is good strategy and B1G won't act.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:56 AM ^
It’s does seem they believe they have support from the presidents to vote in favor of suspending.
and it’s also bullsh**
November 5th, 2023 at 8:13 AM ^
That is sad and a bad precedent for the future. NCAA can take two years and they want to suspend a guy for two years? OSU hit job seems to work. And these Presidents have no sense of fairness. Hope UM leaves the conference but that takes a lot to come together such as regents, other UM sports. We will see.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:25 AM ^
Then they would also need to vote in favor of suspending Ryan Day for initiating PI spying (possibly illegal spying) into Michigan's activities.
What ever it is that shocks college presidents about scouting football teams in advance would pale to the shock of illegal spying on member institutions. They cannot have that.
I cannot believe that college presidents want to set this kind of precedent over a transient NCAA bylaw that they didn't even know was a rule two weeks ago.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:25 AM ^
Not to thread hijack but remember when Marvin Harrison Jr wore an apple watch on the field a clear violation of NCAA electronic communication device rule. Crickets from the mainstream media 
November 5th, 2023 at 7:54 AM ^
Respectfully, you need to check the NCAA guidelines about what is a violation.
Wearing a communication device is not a violation.
Neither is…
Having coaches work directly with players during a prohibited time (before fall camp opens),
Pay for play.
Brown bagging.
Fraudulent classes.
Using sporting goods companies to offer money to prospective athletes.
Spending $ 280K for an OV.
The list goes on…
November 5th, 2023 at 8:18 AM ^
Once again, this has nothing to do with stealing signs. This is all about taking down Michigan because OSU thinks the B1G is their conference and they've aligned their little minions with them because the other 12 schools know they can't possibly beat both a Harbaugh coached Michigan and OSU.
November 5th, 2023 at 11:28 AM ^
Why would a dozen Big Ten schools agree to just let Ohio State be their overlord? OSU is not exactly a benevolent ruler.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:27 AM ^
Looked it up for everyone:
Thamel can suck my balls
November 5th, 2023 at 9:04 AM ^
Hate to break it to you but you're gonna have to wait a LONG time until he's done with Day's salty ass balls.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:39 AM ^
Would it kill you to post a fucking link dude? For heavens sake, this should be in the damn snowflake thread.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:41 AM ^
This is 100% a hit job by a bunch of pussies who are terrified of a fully weaponized Michigan coached by Jim Motherfucking Harbaugh
Fuck every single one of them
November 5th, 2023 at 7:43 AM ^
Spot on!
November 5th, 2023 at 9:00 AM ^
Amen Jim’s got the crown and they wanna bring em down. I’d like to take a Dooce on the stoop of that Thamel guys house.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:41 AM ^
If a Harbaugh suspension comes down hopefully the lawyer types can weigh in on if the injunction/lawsuit against B1G will get in on time for Penn state/osu
I’ve mentioned this before but this team has so many player leaders I honestly don’t think it’ll matter. I’d take this Michigan team without Harbaugh against anyone. Yes they seemed rusty at times coming off the bye week, but this team has got IT. Harbaugh being out won’t matter - maybe make them even more focused/pissed off.
Who becomes head coach? Either Moore or Hart (to keep coordinators focused)?
November 5th, 2023 at 7:46 AM ^
Read what the B10 wants. Indefinite suspension of coach Harbaugh. There isn’t a 2 game suspension coming down the pike it’s basically they want him removed forever.
my $.02 anyways.
Michigan it seems has lawyered up and is planning on fighting this. Again my $.02
November 5th, 2023 at 7:50 AM ^
At this point in the season, I actually think it would hurt more for the coordinators to be suspended. Harbaugh has already communicated his football DNA to this team.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:51 AM ^
I wasn't impressed with Moore in the Bowling Green game. The team just looked completely out of sorts and took a while to respond to adversity. Mike Hart was born to be a Michigan head coach. This team will run through a wall for him.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:28 AM ^
I think that was because he was wearing 3 hats too--HC/OC/OL which I think is to much. So, if he is made HC some duties need to be spread out to others
November 5th, 2023 at 9:53 AM ^
Disagree but hope I’m wrong.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:27 AM ^
I think it was definitely this. Just way too much going on for him. And as much as everyone is like “we will be fine without Harbaugh” Michigan looked good in the non con, but they hit a whole new level once Harbaugh came back.
if this happens I think you have to do Mike Hart. Let the coordinators do their job.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:06 AM ^
"Mike Hart was born to be a Michigan head coach."
I like Mike, but I will never understand why he's at the top of so many such lists. My hypothesis: RichRod and Hoke trauma made him look like the best RB of all time and reminder of the glory years early in the century when Michigan beat OSU every year (looking up ... nope) and was a national power (also nope).
What is it, really?
November 5th, 2023 at 11:30 AM ^
Selfishly, I want Moore to keep calling the offensive plays. Don't dilute that.
November 5th, 2023 at 7:54 AM ^
You need three things for a preliminary injunction: irreparable harm, a likelihood of success on the merits, and the “balance of equities.”
Irreparable harm basically means some kind of injury for which monetary compensation would not be adequate. Not having your head coach during the stretch run of a football season easily meets that.
The “balance of equities” basically compares that harm to Michigan vs. the harm to everybody else if Harbaugh were improperly allowed to coach those games. I’m assuming M wins on that factor too, since the league could always suspend him later if a punishment is deemed necessary.
I think the case would therefore likely come down to the likelihood of success—meaning whether the Big Ten does or does not have the authority to levy the suspension in the time and manner proposed. I don’t know enough about the conference rules or contracts to assess that, but from Ono’s letter it appears likely that skipping directly to punishment here violates some kind of relevant policy. So, M could probably show a decent chance of prevailing on the merits; the stronger that showing, the more likely the injunction.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:09 AM ^
Yes, the likelihood of success piece is the most fuzzy. Will have to re-read the B1G bylaws on this but as I recall they’re pretty open-ended.
Update: I re-read the bylaws. I am not a lawyer, but they seem to offer a lot of discretion to the B1G Commissioner to conduct or not conduct an investigation, and for the Joint Group Executive Committee (JGEC) to hand out whatever punishment it seems fit. Who is on the JGEC? Is that just all the B1G presidents or something else?
November 5th, 2023 at 11:02 AM ^
The way I read the provision (and I can’t find a copy of the whole rule book so this is just based on the excerpt) the best reading is that there has to be an investigation before the imposition of sanctions. The part saying that the Commissioner has discretion whether to do a hearing is best read as just meaning that it’s up to the Commissioner whether to go for sanctions, not that he can just unilaterally impose sanctions without investigating claims. In other words, you can’t force the Commissioner to do a hearing, but that’s what the Commissioner has to do if he wants to penalize someone.
I don’t know if it’s relevant to anything but a sanction of the head coach can’t be justified as preventing any ongoing harm. Even accepting the narrative that there was “cheating” whose effects could be ongoing (which it sounds like is the predicate of the complaints here), the only type of remedy that could be relevant to addressing the claimed ongoing harm would be, other than shutting down the entire football program, suspending people who knew the improperly obtained signs of other teams and thus might remember them after the conduct ended and after Stalions left. But I don’t think there’s been any showing that there is any such person. So if the remedy is a suspension of the head coach I don’t see how it could be justified as a preventive measure. And if it’s a punitive measure rather than a preventive measure it’s really unclear why there is such a rush to do it in the heat of the season when it’s plainly going to harm our team in all sorts of ways wholly unrelated to the claimed misconduct.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:12 AM ^
The success on the merits part is where Michigan can get nasty. They can provide all sorts of examples where the Big 10 didn’t act in accordance with its rules or provide examples where it didn’t issue a suspension.to a head coach without an investigation and make the Big 10 look silly.
On the hand, the Big 10 gets to oppose the TRO and will load up evidence showing why they are justified in suspending. All of this has to be admissible evidence for the court to consider it, however, all this means this will be a very tough week for all involved.
November 5th, 2023 at 10:31 AM ^
I’m not a lawyer but seems like the coaches want to argue the “balance of equities” point and claim letting him coach is worse than letting the investigation play out.
November 5th, 2023 at 8:15 AM ^
JUB on Michigan Insider Friday indicates that courts don’t like to get involved with things like this unless the organization is not following its own rules. Big Ten rules only allow for a two game suspension, so an indefinite suspension should get judicial relief.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:49 AM ^
Seems to me then the plan for the conference is to distract Harbaugh enough to impact the team vs PSU, then ultimately have Harbaugh sit vs Maryland and OSU.
November 5th, 2023 at 9:06 AM ^
On the third prong--likelihood of success on the merits--you have to remember that in merits issue here is NOT did JH know.
Instead, the merits issue is whether the Big Ten has broken its own rules on suspending him before a true investigation and a chance for JH/Michigan to see the results of the investigation and respond.
The right that Michigan/JH would be suing over is a process right. And the question would boil down to whether Michigan can show that they have a likelihood of ultimately showing that the Big Ten acted against its own process rules in issuing whatever suspension they might issue.
IOW, Michigan would not be arguing 'we are likely to prevail in the issue of whether JH was complicit in whatever Stalions did.' Instead, Michigan would be arguing that 'we are likely to prevail in the issue of whether the Big Ten has improperly suspended JH before running a required investigation, etc.'
'It's a witch hunt' gets way overused these days. But this whole episode really is a witch hunt.
There really is no valid reason to treat this alleged violation any different than the NCAA/Big Ten has treated any other alleged violation in the past. And that means, run the normal process of an investigation, give Michigan the results of that investigation, provide an opportunity for Michigan to respond and give its side of the matter, and then issue whatever consequence in a way that is commensurate with past cases.
A PI firm handing over a file to the NCAA, which then passes that to the Big Ten, is not the normal process. I suppose it is an event that would prompt the NCAA and/or Big Ten it initiate their own normal processes. But...'other Big Ten schools are really mad so as Commissioner I am going to refuse to run the normal process to placate the angry mob' is just not at all how this should work.
I have not looked up the Big Ten bylaws. Some posters here have looked at them and seem to say that the bylaws give the Commissioner the power to do whatever he wants to do. It may be that the bylaws are worded that way.
However, in any litigation, past practices of how the bylaws have been implemented are going to matter a lot. A decent judge is probably going to be skeptical if it is in fact the case that the Big Ten has never before chosen to suspend a head coach before an actual investigation and normal process has taken place.
Anyone on the board recall the history of the Big Ten suspending a coach even before the NCAA has issued a notice of investigation, etc.?
November 5th, 2023 at 10:29 AM ^
So basically, if lawyering up is in Michigan's favor to win an injunction why in the world would Pettiti go down that path other than showing his true colors as a weak leader and cowering to the pitchfork crowd......very sad....
November 5th, 2023 at 7:42 AM ^
My gut tells me that, in this case, Warde had a no comment due to Michigan would have plenty to say in the subsequent days.
So glad Santa is leading Michigan in this hour of insanity!
November 5th, 2023 at 9:12 AM ^
Wards is failing to do his job. He has failed to introduce a counter narrative and had to wait for Santa to do so. Warde should have rescinded Nicole Auerbach’s press or field pass for example.