I have gone through the NCAA rule book, but I have questions
It seems to me that Conor Stalions, retired Naval Officer, thought he was working within the rules. He used a collection of individuals with no connection to Michigan, and they recorded from the stands. Even paying them for the video may have been kosher.
My understanding (largely from MGoBlog legalese) is that the "NCAA has adjudicated that recording is not scouting", but I cannot source that. Which takes the "advance scouting" charge off the table, as nobody has claimed Stalions attended most of these games.
There is clearly a mention of "no recording the signs of the opponent" in Rule 1, but it seems that rule could be specifically related to individuals in the team area. I see no mention of recording from the stands.
I have read mention that "third party video sales are allowed", but cant find that Rule section, either.
So help me understand what the f#@% is going on.
October 29th, 2023 at 6:26 PM ^
Same,
I'm so burnt out on this I don't even care any more.
This is why banks, lawyers, and governments always win, I'm just one person, I have so many other things to do in my life, and I don't have the mental energy to keep pouring into all this.
I waive the white flag.
October 29th, 2023 at 8:41 PM ^
The hope is that we have lawyers, too, who make their good living off figuring out the stuff we don’t have time to.
October 29th, 2023 at 8:55 PM ^
Humor helps at times like this. I especially like the comment on scouting Iowa's offense. hangtimememes
October 29th, 2023 at 6:57 PM ^
One further item that supports the fact that Stallions was working within a loophole vs. breaking the rules is that he seemed to be using (in at least one case) student interns. They are not considered “institutional staff” by the NCAA:
Institutional Staff Member - Defined For purposes of Bylaw 14.9, an institutional staff member is any individual, excluding a student employee, who performs work for the institution or the athletics department, regardless of whether he or she receives compensation for such work.
This is still working against the spirit of the tule so we’ll see whether the NCAA will parse out that level of nuance.
Either way, there is a red flag around the hiring process of the Athletic Department. Multiple hires in the last 3 years have spectacularly blown up in Michigan’s face.
October 29th, 2023 at 7:05 PM ^
You know, I just thought of this b/c I'm a little slow... and now that I think about it, I haven't heard anyone ask this:
M has a compliance dept. why the fuck didn't he just ask compliance if this is in the rules? I mean, that's what they're there for right?
October 29th, 2023 at 8:21 PM ^
Assuming he was acting alone, he probably didn’t want anyone knowing what he was doing because he thought it was giving him a leg up internally on becoming a boy wonder assistant coach.
October 29th, 2023 at 8:21 PM ^
How do you know that he didn't?
October 29th, 2023 at 8:23 PM ^
Because it wasn't part of his plan. He needed to work up the coaching tree. He had his own network of game spies. He wanted to be the smartest guy in the room so why ask. They need to make a movie from this
October 30th, 2023 at 6:09 AM ^
That’s what is going to get him fired. In fact, Michigan should go ahead and fire him now and say exactly that: he may not have broken NCAA rules, but he was definitely operating in a gray area and it was grossly irresponsible for him to not run this by compliance.
October 30th, 2023 at 10:10 AM ^
There's a widely shared assertion/concession that the whole Stalions operation was violating "the spirit of the rules," but when I think about it a little more... no, it doesn't?
The spirit of the rule was that schools didn't want to spend a huge amount of money doing in-person scouting of opponents. I don't think anyone can argue that Connor Stalions was outspending any college football program at any level.
In 1994, the smallest programs must have been working with much smaller budgets to begin with, and the cost of in-person scouting was presumably much higher — you'd have to pay one or more salaries for competent humans. For recording sidelines, specifically, you would have needed to lug some uncommon and expensive video equipment around, get approved to set it up somewhere, and pay someone to run it.
Today, every other fan at a game has a 4K camera with a 3X zoom in their pocket, and I pay Apple $2.99 a month to store unlimited videos of my kid singing "Let It Go" when she was a toddler. The big mind-blowing cost associated with the whole sign-stealing operation is $15K. I bet every CFB program in the country spends several times that much every year on laundry.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:14 PM ^
OSU wants to paint Michigan as massive cheaters with no regard to the rules and obtaining a massive competitive advantage from it so Ryan Day can save his job after we curb stomp them for a 3rd straight year.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:16 PM ^
Yes that can be found under section 3B 45.23
October 29th, 2023 at 5:42 PM ^
You're mistaken, that's section 3L, not 3B
October 29th, 2023 at 6:04 PM ^
(3rd Base)
October 29th, 2023 at 6:27 PM ^
3L also = third year law student.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:54 PM ^
Thank you. Joke never gets old.
October 29th, 2023 at 6:08 PM ^
Yes, right after B2B2B-42.27
October 29th, 2023 at 6:22 PM ^
Where is the like button?
October 29th, 2023 at 5:38 PM ^
Ryan Day can't use spygate as an excuse. It was mentioned that no one used the spy seats at the Penn State vs OSU game. Plus it would paint Day as very stupid if he doesn't change or hide his signals when we meet in AA. Truth is the spying accusations should have no bite if we continue to dominate our opposition.
October 29th, 2023 at 6:38 PM ^
We can thank Ryan Day for inflating our balls. Nobody has bigger balls than our boys because of this. Ryan is going to pay the piper
October 29th, 2023 at 5:45 PM ^
This!
October 29th, 2023 at 5:51 PM ^
And the NCAA and B1G are more then complicit.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:16 PM ^
Stop trying to figure it out. It’s a hit job but we will end up just fine
October 29th, 2023 at 5:38 PM ^
We all need hobbies. I guess this is his.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:21 PM ^
As someone else said I like it when Harbaugh coaches angry and is taking receipts. This is just going to make him want to prove all the haters wrong and curb stomp the competition to remove all doubt.
October 29th, 2023 at 7:41 PM ^
Yep! I'm thinking 49-14?
October 29th, 2023 at 5:21 PM ^
Make two big signs next week:
- One with JJ passing
- One with Blake running
By the 4th quarter, when the lead is 50:7 or something, show the sign every play.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:25 PM ^
So help me understand what the f#@% is going on.
For many years college football has been shady to degrees for everyone who participates. OSU violated an unspoken agreement and ratted on another high-profile school (UM). There's some disagreement on the merit of their complaint.
Why did they violate the agreement? Recent events ('21 and '22 games with Michigan) have broken them. Why would that happen? Prior to the '21 match-up it had been nearly twenty years (https://www.espn.com/college-football/game/_/gameId/233260130) since Michigan won. (OSU doesn't really count the Fickell season.) They couldn't clearly process any other outcome.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:43 PM ^
Plus Day can't handle the truth that he was born on 3rd base but got picked off without scoring.
October 29th, 2023 at 6:25 PM ^
More like took a step too far and got caught in a run-down.
October 30th, 2023 at 3:44 AM ^
He is a pinch runner.
October 29th, 2023 at 6:01 PM ^
”violence begins to mend what was broken”
October 29th, 2023 at 7:28 PM ^
I don't really count the Fickell season either.
October 30th, 2023 at 9:43 AM ^
Was the game played? Yes, so it counts.
Michigan has to count the seasons where Threet, etc. were the starters, so OSU can count Bauserman.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:26 PM ^
+1 Informative
October 29th, 2023 at 5:32 PM ^
Appreciate your passion, but this has been discussed ad nauseam. More importantly, we don't control the outcome no matter how logical our interpretation may be.
Hey look, it's Sunday, NFL's on and it's a nice day here in LA- give yourself a break and enjoy the day.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:37 PM ^
I don't know what is going on but I like and appreciate your analysis.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:37 PM ^
Okay, so the key here is you seem to be looking in the NCAA Football Rule Book. Ignore that. The football rules only apply to the 2 teams competing, but that's not what the accusation is, apparently--the accusation is that the recording took place at games not involving Michigan.
What you should be looking at is the NCAA Division I Manual. I'll let you google that rather than posting the link here, but that does say that "scouting" is not permitted in-person. What "scouting" is, and whom the rule applies to, is left as an excercise both for the imagination and for any vengeful NCAA infractions committee members.
October 29th, 2023 at 7:28 PM ^
Some people seem to think because Stalions may have paid someone else to video the game, they are de facto employees and this violates the "in-person" part of the bylaws.
Here's my question:
If Stalions pays for ESPN, and they video tape the game, is he then forbidden from watching any opponents' highlight videos on Sportscenter?
Sounds pretty ridiculous if you ask me.
October 29th, 2023 at 8:44 PM ^
If Stalions paid ESPN specifically to go video tape a game and then privately provide him the video, then the NCAA might view that as an employee of the school in regards to their bylaw.
If Stalions pays a cable bill, which includes ESPN, and then he watches ESPN which is widely available to everyone who pays for it, then that is not an employee.
Pretty clear difference, but nice try.
October 29th, 2023 at 11:20 PM ^
Why would it be a clear difference if he uses personal money for both?
If they wanted to ban any sort of scouting of opponents, they wouldn't have inserted "in-person"
October 29th, 2023 at 5:38 PM ^
The NCAA can basically do what they want because they are making things up as they go...
October 29th, 2023 at 8:21 PM ^
Their fallback will basically be that, while Michigan did not explicitly violate the rule as written, they violated the spirit of the rule by promoting an atmosphere of unfair competition and, therefore, should be guilty of something and receive some sort of penalty for the ever-ambiguous lack of control or whatever.
So yeah, what you said.
October 29th, 2023 at 5:40 PM ^
Connor should get his job back. Seriously. And we need to sign Harbaugh to his extension tonight. Fck the ncaa and everyone else
October 29th, 2023 at 5:49 PM ^
At least we know what happened to Eddie Munster!
October 29th, 2023 at 6:32 PM ^
Love it. But "Dark Brown" may be understating the situation. Dude looks more "Jet Black"
October 29th, 2023 at 9:23 PM ^
Only problem is that it says, "for Men"
Why is HE on there?